#1 Edited by Rickbarry (1737 posts) - - Show Bio

I saw this and thought to share it with the rest of ya.

I guess there's yet another team running around with Colossus perhaps as it's leader? I can't say I blame them as the handlebar moustache demands respect. I can only assume that's another Iceman...which brings the count to four. Good lord.

#2 Edited by TheFirstLantern (1379 posts) - - Show Bio

Woah

#3 Edited by The_Goddess_of_Chaos (297 posts) - - Show Bio

@rickbarry:

i dont get it. Who are these characters?????

#4 Edited by GonnaRain (752 posts) - - Show Bio

So, I can recognize Colossus, Jubilee and Quentin Quire as a Phoenix Avatar (I can't recall where, but that design is indeed "old", I saw it somewhere, I'm almost 100% sure). But who the heck are the others? And what does this means? It just adds a more questions, ahhhhhhsasdasdasdadasdasdasd...

#5 Edited by darthphoenix (512 posts) - - Show Bio

cloak and Quintin quire phoenix and jubilee and colosus the others, i have no idea

#6 Edited by oldnightcrawler (3489 posts) - - Show Bio

So Cloak is Dr.Strange? or something?

#7 Posted by adamTRMM (866 posts) - - Show Bio

Who is this Iron-X-Man?

A panther with marks? Nezhno?

#8 Posted by HAWK2916 (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it possible that a whole new book will be spun out of BOTA and set in the future?

#9 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7205 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

Is it possible that a whole new book will be spun out of BOTA and set in the future?

I'll seriously be done with X-Comics if this turns out to be the case. The more this so-called event progress, the bleaker the future of the X-Men's franchise looks.

#10 Posted by poisonfleur (2722 posts) - - Show Bio

One looks like Storm and BP's potential child due to the white hair and the Panther.

#11 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

this is getting utterly ridiculous... I hate Bendis so much more now.... It's already been well establish that the Past and Futures are not connected, and is an alternate reality, the X-men have stated this over and over... so why would people be coming back to the to try and fix or change the future when it will have no affect at all...Bishop, Cable, Rachel and Legion have all proven this to be true...

If Bendis changes this long established rule, i'll be done with the x-men until he is well out of the picture and i love them...

#13 Posted by Veitha (2363 posts) - - Show Bio

The rules of time travel have already been changed in AoU, so it's not a mistake.

The team seems ne Made of Colossus, Jubilee, Iceman, Wiccan or the Hood, Quentin Quire, BP and Storm's daughter and ma IronMan. I guess Aaron designed them lol they're pretty ridicoulojs

#14 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

The rules of time travel have already been changed in AoU, so it's not a mistake.

The team seems ne Made of Colossus, Jubilee, Iceman, Wiccan or the Hood, Quentin Quire, BP and Storm's daughter and ma IronMan. I guess Aaron designed them lol they're pretty ridicoulojs

I don't read age of Ultron, because i stay away from non-Hickman Avengers. So what supposedly changed?

#15 Edited by Veitha (2363 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: at the end of Age of Ultron the continuum was broken so that, as explained in Hulk, changes Made in the Past can non affect the future. It's all part of the big storyline that is involving many Marvel NOW titles, including the mutant titles

#16 Posted by adamTRMM (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@blacharrt1: at the end of Age of Ultron the continuum was broken so that, as explained in Hulk, changes Made in the Past can non affect the future. It's all part of the big storyline that is involving many Marvel NOW titles, including the mutant titles

So how did the moment, where young Cyclops almost died, affect the present Cyclops? =\

#17 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@blacharrt1: at the end of Age of Ultron the continuum was broken so that, as explained in Hulk, changes Made in the Past can non affect the future. It's all part of the big storyline that is involving many Marvel NOW titles, including the mutant titles

That's stupid.. because in Exiles the same thing happened , that was the sole point of Exiles and Kang couldn't fix it yet it didn't break anything, and that linked countless other realities. Bendis wrote age of Ultron, this is why i said he ignores canon instances and comes up stupid plots... He has been one of the worst writers to ever get his hands on the X-men. He just nulled and voided an entire history of time and realities in marvel to further his god awful story telling with characters he clearly knows nothing about.

@adamtrmm said:

@veitha said:

@blacharrt1: at the end of Age of Ultron the continuum was broken so that, as explained in Hulk, changes Made in the Past can non affect the future. It's all part of the big storyline that is involving many Marvel NOW titles, including the mutant titles

So how did the moment, where young Cyclops almost died, affect the present Cyclops? =\

As i said Bendis and horrible writing, it shouldn't have affect him at all. Because they aren't the same person from the same reality. This was even stated by Beast around the time he brought them back when they were talking about the consequences of tampering with time. So for anyone to try and justify it with bad writing is just shameful.

#18 Posted by adamTRMM (866 posts) - - Show Bio

That's stupid.. because in Exiles the same thing happened , that was the sole point of Exiles and Kang couldn't fix it yet it didn't break anything, and that linked countless other realities. Bendis wrote age of Ultron, this is why i said he ignores canon instances and comes up stupid plots... He has been one of the worst writers to ever get his hands on the X-men. He just nulled and voided an entire history of time and realities in marvel to further his god awful story telling with characters he clearly knows nothing about.

Yeah, and in the end, AOU came out as a ridiculous Age of Wolverine. He completely fails at time-travel stories. Btw, I blame Bendis for making Wolverine an awful character he is now.


As i said Bendis and horrible writing, it shouldn't have affect him at all. Because they aren't the same person from the same reality. This was even stated by Beast around the time he brought them back when they were talking about the consequences of tampering with time. So for anyone to try and justify it with bad writing is just shameful.

That's why I never liked tame-travel.

#19 Posted by Veitha (2363 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: it's not only Bendis, but also Waid, Aaron and a bunch of other Marvel writers who are following the storyline. Now the present can be altered by altering the past, it's a new rule, but this doesn't mean that they won't fix it(I'm pretty sure that this will be part of the new big events or of titles as Guardians of The Galaxy or Indestructible Hulk).

And it was never stated clearly that Young Cyke and Old Cyke are from different realities, it was hint but never really stated.

@adamtrmm said:

@veitha said:

@blacharrt1: at the end of Age of Ultron the continuum was broken so that, as explained in Hulk, changes Made in the Past can non affect the future. It's all part of the big storyline that is involving many Marvel NOW titles, including the mutant titles

So how did the moment, where young Cyclops almost died, affect the present Cyclops? =\

Because now present can be altered by altering past.

#20 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio
@veitha said:

@blacharrt1: it's not only Bendis, but also Waid, Aaron and a bunch of other Marvel writers who are following the storyline. Now the present can be altered by altering the past, it's a new rule, but this doesn't mean that they won't fix it(I'm pretty sure that this will be part of the new big events or of titles as Guardians of The Galaxy or Indestructible Hulk).

And it was never stated clearly that Young Cyke and Old Cyke are from different realities, it was hint but never really stated.


That's the point, this is the problem with Bendis and Marvel for following his stupid ideas. You have literally decades of a standard principle in marvel, and this knob come over created a very weak plot that leads nowhere then turns it into a dumb event. Seriously there are several people in the X-men who can manipulate and travel through time, if they really wanted to resolved this problem and if scott really wanted to end this he could tell magik, or tempus to send them back. And instantly it would be done. There was no real point in bringing the younger versions to the present, a lame excuse for a supposedly dying beast (a lot of build for nothing) to convince scott... really... you can't think of anything else beast.. you're a genius and you think tampering with time is the best idea... really? This was even pointed out to him when he first did it. It's dumb. And leave it to Bendis to use the Avengers in order to pull this off.

It doesn't have to be stated because that was the president in time travel affecting the past does not affect the present and creates alternate reality. This has been explored several times with Rachel, Legion, Cable, Bishop countless times, Jamie Maddox etc etc. It was done to death in the Exiles it was the whole reason they existed. Until Bendis comes a long and decides to change it. So unless you know nothing of X-men mythos then of course it needs to be spelled out for you that they shouldn't be the same person.

#21 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: And i swear if this turns into some crisis of infinite earth type event for marvel i will burn every single Marvel book i have.

#22 Posted by darthphoenix (512 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: i just thought that the hooded guy is cloak because of the blue and black cloak with his supposed new partner=jubilee because of her light powers. i just assumed

#23 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3489 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: i just thought that the hooded guy is cloak because of the blue and black cloak with his supposed new partner=jubilee because of her light powers. i just assumed

yeah, well his cloak is definitely a mix of Cloak and Dr.Strange's cloaks, so whoever it is must have some connection to both of those guys.. it seems unlikely that it will be important either way, though.

#24 Edited by youmessinwithme (1102 posts) - - Show Bio

there's a literal panther with blue glowing markings on it....

#25 Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln (896 posts) - - Show Bio

@youmessinwithme: Black Panther's daughter? =/

Also... I'm so happy the way Iceman's getting treated. Colossus looks beast... but i'm most interested in Quentin Quire, he looks awesome

#26 Posted by CheeseSticks (2278 posts) - - Show Bio

We can't even get good stories with our current timeline character, Bendis please stop creating futur x-men...

#27 Posted by Veitha (2363 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: And i swear if this turns into some crisis of infinite earth type event for marvel i will burn every single Marvel book i have.

if they reboot I'm going to drop Marvel too haha

#28 Posted by phisigmatau (433 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Edited by stormphoenix (762 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: wow :) couldn't have said it better myself

#30 Edited by JROCK72 (399 posts) - - Show Bio

Here are my guesses for characters;

1. Colossus (nice mustache might I add)

2. Cloak (I'm guessing the new Sorceror Supreme)

3. Quentin Quire (Phoenix)

4. ? (Who's the old dude?)

5. Possibly Shuri or another female Black Panther

6. Jubilee (she kinda looks a little like Domino)

7. Iron Man?

#31 Edited by Squares (3156 posts) - - Show Bio

Ohhhh wow, is that another Phoenix Force Quentin Quire?

Niiiice. I'm reading the hell out of this.

@jrock72 said:

Here are my guesses for characters;

1. Colossus (nice mustache might I add)

2. Cloak (I'm guessing the new Sorceror Supreme)

3. Quentin Quire (Phoenix)

4. ? (Who's the old dude?)

5. Possibly Shuri or another female Black Panther

6. Jubilee (she kinda looks a little like Domino)

7. Iron Man?

And since when is Cloak a candidate for the Sorceror Supreme...acy? He doesn't even deal with magic, just the Darkforce.

Old dude is Iceman, I think, and the glowy-eyes chick can be either Shuri or Storm.

#32 Posted by CaptainCyke (89 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprised everyone is saying that's Jubilee... I can see more of Psylocke (the eye mark and TK-hand)

#33 Posted by Dman1366 (528 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: And i swear if this turns into some crisis of infinite earth type event for marvel i will burn every single Marvel book i have.

#34 Edited by Squares (3156 posts) - - Show Bio

@captaincyke said:

I'm surprised everyone is saying that's Jubilee... I can see more of Psylocke (the eye mark and TK-hand)

It's the glasses (Jubilee's old glasses) and her hair (Psylocke's hair is purple). Plus, TK is generally purpleish-pink, Psylocke's being (to my knowledge) exclusively so.

#35 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2169 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@blacharrt1: it's not only Bendis, but also Waid, Aaron and a bunch of other Marvel writers who are following the storyline. Now the present can be altered by altering the past, it's a new rule, but this doesn't mean that they won't fix it(I'm pretty sure that this will be part of the new big events or of titles as Guardians of The Galaxy or Indestructible Hulk).

And it was never stated clearly that Young Cyke and Old Cyke are from different realities, it was hint but never really stated.


That's the point, this is the problem with Bendis and Marvel for following his stupid ideas. You have literally decades of a standard principle in marvel, and this knob come over created a very weak plot that leads nowhere then turns it into a dumb event. Seriously there are several people in the X-men who can manipulate and travel through time, if they really wanted to resolved this problem and if scott really wanted to end this he could tell magik, or tempus to send them back. And instantly it would be done. There was no real point in bringing the younger versions to the present, a lame excuse for a supposedly dying beast (a lot of build for nothing) to convince scott... really... you can't think of anything else beast.. you're a genius and you think tampering with time is the best idea... really? This was even pointed out to him when he first did it. It's dumb. And leave it to Bendis to use the Avengers in order to pull this off.

It doesn't have to be stated because that was the president in time travel affecting the past does not affect the present and creates alternate reality. This has been explored several times with Rachel, Legion, Cable, Bishop countless times, Jamie Maddox etc etc. It was done to death in the Exiles it was the whole reason they existed. Until Bendis comes a long and decides to change it. So unless you know nothing of X-men mythos then of course it needs to be spelled out for you that they shouldn't be the same person.

There's nothing that says that the old "time travel produces an alternate reality" thing doesn't stand. However, since the boundaries of the entire multiverse are weak (again) there's nothing that says that affects can't bleed over, which is why Young Cyke threatened current Cyke when in the past, such a thing couldn't happen.

On top of the broken time stream messing with the boundaries of universes, you also have broken Superflows and White Events that are also messing with how the multiverse functions. There's a billion different cosmic things going on in Marvel right now, and they're all contributing to the overall condition of the current Marvel U. You can't single out one thing when there's half a dozen things going on.

#36 Posted by The_Goddess_of_Chaos (297 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:

Ohhhh wow, is that another Phoenix Force Quentin Quire?

Niiiice. I'm reading the hell out of this.

@jrock72 said:

Here are my guesses for characters;

1. Colossus (nice mustache might I add)

2. Cloak (I'm guessing the new Sorceror Supreme)

3. Quentin Quire (Phoenix)

4. ? (Who's the old dude?)

5. Possibly Shuri or another female Black Panther

6. Jubilee (she kinda looks a little like Domino)

7. Iron Man?

And since when is Cloak a candidate for the Sorceror Supreme...acy? He doesn't even deal with magic, just the Darkforce.

Old dude is Iceman, I think, and the glowy-eyes chick can be either Shuri or Storm.

i thought the girl with white hair was storm and black panther sercret love child....lol

#37 Posted by Rickbarry (1737 posts) - - Show Bio

Colossamania is still alive, friends.

#38 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@dman1366: bend over i'll show you what butthurt means.

@blacharrt1 said:
@veitha said:

@blacharrt1: it's not only Bendis, but also Waid, Aaron and a bunch of other Marvel writers who are following the storyline. Now the present can be altered by altering the past, it's a new rule, but this doesn't mean that they won't fix it(I'm pretty sure that this will be part of the new big events or of titles as Guardians of The Galaxy or Indestructible Hulk).

And it was never stated clearly that Young Cyke and Old Cyke are from different realities, it was hint but never really stated.


That's the point, this is the problem with Bendis and Marvel for following his stupid ideas. You have literally decades of a standard principle in marvel, and this knob come over created a very weak plot that leads nowhere then turns it into a dumb event. Seriously there are several people in the X-men who can manipulate and travel through time, if they really wanted to resolved this problem and if scott really wanted to end this he could tell magik, or tempus to send them back. And instantly it would be done. There was no real point in bringing the younger versions to the present, a lame excuse for a supposedly dying beast (a lot of build for nothing) to convince scott... really... you can't think of anything else beast.. you're a genius and you think tampering with time is the best idea... really? This was even pointed out to him when he first did it. It's dumb. And leave it to Bendis to use the Avengers in order to pull this off.

It doesn't have to be stated because that was the president in time travel affecting the past does not affect the present and creates alternate reality. This has been explored several times with Rachel, Legion, Cable, Bishop countless times, Jamie Maddox etc etc. It was done to death in the Exiles it was the whole reason they existed. Until Bendis comes a long and decides to change it. So unless you know nothing of X-men mythos then of course it needs to be spelled out for you that they shouldn't be the same person.

There's nothing that says that the old "time travel produces an alternate reality" thing doesn't stand. However, since the boundaries of the entire multiverse are weak (again) there's nothing that says that affects can't bleed over, which is why Young Cyke threatened current Cyke when in the past, such a thing couldn't happen.

On top of the broken time stream messing with the boundaries of universes, you also have broken Superflows and White Events that are also messing with how the multiverse functions. There's a billion different cosmic things going on in Marvel right now, and they're all contributing to the overall condition of the current Marvel U. You can't single out one thing when there's half a dozen things going on.

Actually that's not true at all. if the old rules stood, then young Scott isn't Older Scott from the past of 616, just a younger version from an alternate dimension. There are several beings who can actually link 1 character to their other dimensional selves this has been done a couple times but it's always done by very high level cosmic beings, or beings with enough psionic power to bridge dimensions. And it's never done for an extended time or maintained permanently that I've ever seen. Nate Grey as Shaman was able to reassemble someone's memories by using the person from other dimensions and connect them. However, they were all still separate individual and lives did not intersect. The old rules clearly state that going back in the past, or changing the past, does not affect the present, but creates an alternate reality, meaning they would not be the same people in the same reality. Beast has already tampered with and changed their past, so that the young x-men traveled to the 616 present, that never happened to the original x-men. Jean never came into contact with the phoenix at that young of an age, Current Jean is still in the White Hot room, so then the Future Jean being the current young jean doesn't really make sense that she can't control her powers, she stated clearly that because she was brought to the present and her powers developed to quickly they are now out of control. That never happened to 616 Jean. Could POTWC possibly resolve this like she did the baby universe easily, yup. Again there are several people on the roster who could easily resolve this problem for some stupid reason they just don't. But anyway, so if the old rules were in place young scott can not be older scott. However as i said Bendis just fubarred it.

As far as the universal events going on, it's all leading to something very much like crisis of infinite earth. universes collading with each other destroying both universes, the white event system is out of whack, leading the creators to destroy earth which of course is the focal point.... But that has nothing to really do with time. Time for each universe is different, although some universes clearly run parallel of the 616 timelines others do not.. Exiles, Ultimates, and AoA are very good examples of that, some universes the x-men and others are younger, some older, some dead. So the timeline itself is connected to the universe they are actively occupying.

#39 Edited by Squares (3156 posts) - - Show Bio

There's nothing that says that the old "time travel produces an alternate reality" thing doesn't stand. However, since the boundaries of the entire multiverse are weak (again) there's nothing that says that affects can't bleed over, which is why Young Cyke threatened current Cyke when in the past, such a thing couldn't happen.

On top of the broken time stream messing with the boundaries of universes, you also have broken Superflows and White Events that are also messing with how the multiverse functions. There's a billion different cosmic things going on in Marvel right now, and they're all contributing to the overall condition of the current Marvel U. You can't single out one thing when there's half a dozen things going on.

Actually that's not true at all. if the old rules stood, then young Scott isn't Older Scott from the past of 616, just a younger version from an alternate dimension. There are several beings who can actually link 1 character to their other dimensional selves this has been done a couple times but it's always done by very high level cosmic beings, or beings with enough psionic power to bridge dimensions. And it's never done for an extended time or maintained permanently that I've ever seen. Nate Grey as Shaman was able to reassemble someone's memories by using the person from other dimensions and connect them. However, they were all still separate individual and lives did not intersect. The old rules clearly state that going back in the past, or changing the past, does not affect the present, but creates an alternate reality, meaning they would not be the same people in the same reality. Beast has already tampered with and changed their past, so that the young x-men traveled to the 616 present, that never happened to the original x-men. Jean never came into contact with the phoenix at that young of an age, Current Jean is still in the White Hot room, so then the Future Jean being the current young jean doesn't really make sense that she can't control her powers, she stated clearly that because she was brought to the present and her powers developed to quickly they are now out of control. That never happened to 616 Jean. Could POTWC possibly resolve this like she did the baby universe easily, yup. Again there are several people on the roster who could easily resolve this problem for some stupid reason they just don't. But anyway, so if the old rules were in place young scott can not be older scott. However as i said Bendis just fubarred it.

As far as the universal events going on, it's all leading to something very much like crisis of infinite earth. universes collading with each other destroying both universes, the white event system is out of whack, leading the creators to destroy earth which of course is the focal point.... But that has nothing to really do with time. Time for each universe is different, although some universes clearly run parallel of the 616 timelines others do not.. Exiles, Ultimates, and AoA are very good examples of that, some universes the x-men and others are younger, some older, some dead. So the timeline itself is connected to the universe they are actively occupying.

I understand the whole 'any timeline that is not the current timeline is technically an alternate timeline' thing, but does that really rule out conventional rules of time travel (not inter-dimensional travel)?

#40 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:

@blacharrt1 said:

There's nothing that says that the old "time travel produces an alternate reality" thing doesn't stand. However, since the boundaries of the entire multiverse are weak (again) there's nothing that says that affects can't bleed over, which is why Young Cyke threatened current Cyke when in the past, such a thing couldn't happen.

On top of the broken time stream messing with the boundaries of universes, you also have broken Superflows and White Events that are also messing with how the multiverse functions. There's a billion different cosmic things going on in Marvel right now, and they're all contributing to the overall condition of the current Marvel U. You can't single out one thing when there's half a dozen things going on.

Actually that's not true at all. if the old rules stood, then young Scott isn't Older Scott from the past of 616, just a younger version from an alternate dimension. There are several beings who can actually link 1 character to their other dimensional selves this has been done a couple times but it's always done by very high level cosmic beings, or beings with enough psionic power to bridge dimensions. And it's never done for an extended time or maintained permanently that I've ever seen. Nate Grey as Shaman was able to reassemble someone's memories by using the person from other dimensions and connect them. However, they were all still separate individual and lives did not intersect. The old rules clearly state that going back in the past, or changing the past, does not affect the present, but creates an alternate reality, meaning they would not be the same people in the same reality. Beast has already tampered with and changed their past, so that the young x-men traveled to the 616 present, that never happened to the original x-men. Jean never came into contact with the phoenix at that young of an age, Current Jean is still in the White Hot room, so then the Future Jean being the current young jean doesn't really make sense that she can't control her powers, she stated clearly that because she was brought to the present and her powers developed to quickly they are now out of control. That never happened to 616 Jean. Could POTWC possibly resolve this like she did the baby universe easily, yup. Again there are several people on the roster who could easily resolve this problem for some stupid reason they just don't. But anyway, so if the old rules were in place young scott can not be older scott. However as i said Bendis just fubarred it.

As far as the universal events going on, it's all leading to something very much like crisis of infinite earth. universes collading with each other destroying both universes, the white event system is out of whack, leading the creators to destroy earth which of course is the focal point.... But that has nothing to really do with time. Time for each universe is different, although some universes clearly run parallel of the 616 timelines others do not.. Exiles, Ultimates, and AoA are very good examples of that, some universes the x-men and others are younger, some older, some dead. So the timeline itself is connected to the universe they are actively occupying.

I understand the whole 'any timeline that is not the current timeline is technically an alternate timeline' thing, but does that really rule out conventional rules of time travel (not inter-dimensional travel)?

what is conventional rules of time travel? Are you talking about like Terminator time travel logic? That doesn't apply to Marvel because they had already established that altering the past creates and alternate dimension/universe. So in that aspect no conventional time travel rules don't apply because it's not suppose to change the present 616 or affect it at all. At that point the timelines diverge and become two separate timelines, because as i said before each universe has it's own timeline, or that's the way it seemed from the various marvel instances that i have seen. For example cable, rachel, Bishop.. At one point Rachel goes into the future and raises her brother, then somehow both of them go back into the current day if 616, but in 1 future Apocalypse wins and is at war with Cable to which cable is losing. But in Bishop's timeline in the future, the Human's rose up against the mutants killed or imprisoned majority of the x-men all due to certain event that went off in 616 that happened a certain way. Another example is that Rachel goes back into the past in then tries to make sure that Jean and Cyclops have a child which is suppose to be her in the future, which turns out not to happen at all, they have a boy instead of a girl. Her future was eventually destroyed but not due to event that happened in 616. As i said before another good example is legion quest which created the alternate universe of Age of Apocalypse, and evenly the 616 character interact with the AoA universe and eventually go back to 616. And of course at some point again in xforce and xtermination, 616 characters interact with other universe version of themselves. Deadpool corp, also took atlernate versions of deadpool, from different realities, none of which are actually deadpool.

So again, by all accounts they shouldn't be the same person. But if they were doing a cross dimensional thing, where all version of scott were affected, then it would make sense.

#41 Posted by Squares (3156 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:

@blacharrt1 said:

There's nothing that says that the old "time travel produces an alternate reality" thing doesn't stand. However, since the boundaries of the entire multiverse are weak (again) there's nothing that says that affects can't bleed over, which is why Young Cyke threatened current Cyke when in the past, such a thing couldn't happen.

On top of the broken time stream messing with the boundaries of universes, you also have broken Superflows and White Events that are also messing with how the multiverse functions. There's a billion different cosmic things going on in Marvel right now, and they're all contributing to the overall condition of the current Marvel U. You can't single out one thing when there's half a dozen things going on.

Actually that's not true at all. if the old rules stood, then young Scott isn't Older Scott from the past of 616, just a younger version from an alternate dimension. There are several beings who can actually link 1 character to their other dimensional selves this has been done a couple times but it's always done by very high level cosmic beings, or beings with enough psionic power to bridge dimensions. And it's never done for an extended time or maintained permanently that I've ever seen. Nate Grey as Shaman was able to reassemble someone's memories by using the person from other dimensions and connect them. However, they were all still separate individual and lives did not intersect. The old rules clearly state that going back in the past, or changing the past, does not affect the present, but creates an alternate reality, meaning they would not be the same people in the same reality. Beast has already tampered with and changed their past, so that the young x-men traveled to the 616 present, that never happened to the original x-men. Jean never came into contact with the phoenix at that young of an age, Current Jean is still in the White Hot room, so then the Future Jean being the current young jean doesn't really make sense that she can't control her powers, she stated clearly that because she was brought to the present and her powers developed to quickly they are now out of control. That never happened to 616 Jean. Could POTWC possibly resolve this like she did the baby universe easily, yup. Again there are several people on the roster who could easily resolve this problem for some stupid reason they just don't. But anyway, so if the old rules were in place young scott can not be older scott. However as i said Bendis just fubarred it.

As far as the universal events going on, it's all leading to something very much like crisis of infinite earth. universes collading with each other destroying both universes, the white event system is out of whack, leading the creators to destroy earth which of course is the focal point.... But that has nothing to really do with time. Time for each universe is different, although some universes clearly run parallel of the 616 timelines others do not.. Exiles, Ultimates, and AoA are very good examples of that, some universes the x-men and others are younger, some older, some dead. So the timeline itself is connected to the universe they are actively occupying.

I understand the whole 'any timeline that is not the current timeline is technically an alternate timeline' thing, but does that really rule out conventional rules of time travel (not inter-dimensional travel)?

what is conventional rules of time travel? Are you talking about like Terminator time travel logic? That doesn't apply to Marvel because they had already established that altering the past creates and alternate dimension/universe. So in that aspect no conventional time travel rules don't apply because it's not suppose to change the present 616 or affect it at all. At that point the timelines diverge and become two separate timelines, because as i said before each universe has it's own timeline, or that's the way it seemed from the various marvel instances that i have seen. For example cable, rachel, Bishop.. At one point Rachel goes into the future and raises her brother, then somehow both of them go back into the current day if 616, but in 1 future Apocalypse wins and is at war with Cable to which cable is losing. But in Bishop's timeline in the future, the Human's rose up against the mutants killed or imprisoned majority of the x-men all due to certain event that went off in 616 that happened a certain way. Another example is that Rachel goes back into the past in then tries to make sure that Jean and Cyclops have a child which is suppose to be her in the future, which turns out not to happen at all, they have a boy instead of a girl. Her future was eventually destroyed but not due to event that happened in 616. As i said before another good example is legion quest which created the alternate universe of Age of Apocalypse, and evenly the 616 character interact with the AoA universe and eventually go back to 616. And of course at some point again in xforce and xtermination, 616 characters interact with other universe version of themselves. Deadpool corp, also took atlernate versions of deadpool, from different realities, none of which are actually deadpool.

So again, by all accounts they shouldn't be the same person. But if they were doing a cross dimensional thing, where all version of scott were affected, then it would make sense.

Yes, I'm familiar with all of those. Except for the bit about Rachel time-travelling in order to ensure 'her' conception; that's just kind of...creepy. Alright, fair enough.

#42 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares: yeah that was pretty weird, the thing i really don't understand is why Bendis and team establish that Rachel doesn't exist in any other universe... I don't know maybe i missed something on that one i didn't read all of the House of M tie ins but i read a good deal of them. Did they explain this as the reason she is able to Leap through time?

#43 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7205 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: Well, i think this has something to do with her Mother Askani persona...she used to have the abilities of chronokinesis or something like that, but not anymore according to Editorial >.>

#44 Edited by adamTRMM (866 posts) - - Show Bio

So, how's that people from ALTERNATE futures time-travel back to a MAINSTREAM present? How's that a mainstream present followed by an alternate future?! I mean, there must be a real one?

#45 Posted by Squares (3156 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares: yeah that was pretty weird, the thing i really don't understand is why Bendis and team establish that Rachel doesn't exist in any other universe... I don't know maybe i missed something on that one i didn't read all of the House of M tie ins but i read a good deal of them. Did they explain this as the reason she is able to Leap through time?

She exists in two other universes, from what I recall from House of M. And I don't know if they did.

#46 Posted by Mr Marvel82 (110 posts) - - Show Bio

Iceman became a wizard?! Nice.

#47 Posted by papad1992 (6815 posts) - - Show Bio

I AM SO CONFUZED!!!

#48 Posted by Shinjiro15 (29 posts) - - Show Bio

X--iron man has to be cyclops. Red eyes for one. But it reminds me of "xorn" jean never learned to control her power, maybe the same with cyclops and that could be extended to ice hulk/bobby. But what about beast and angel??dead?

#49 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock72 said:

Here are my guesses for characters;

1. Colossus (nice mustache might I add)

2. Cloak (I'm guessing the new Sorceror Supreme)

3. Quentin Quire (Phoenix)

4. ? (Who's the old dude?)

5. Possibly Shuri or another female Black Panther

6. Jubilee (she kinda looks a little like Domino)

7. Iron Man?

Looks like some guy fused with Sentinel tech