Storm - you said it yourself... because she is Storm.
Of the others tho... Jubilee would be my choice as a field leader. She has potential. She led that team of New X-Men at Catalina recently... and they did a decent job in spite of the writers gimping Hellion completely. Future Jubilee was leader of the X-Men, it's her destiny.
Psylocke is too reckless. Monet to "superior" - she'd try to do it all on her own. Rachel has shown deep flaws in her personality lately - the John Sublime thing among others, but also she seems to have regressed in terms of her powers too.
Only Rachel and Jubilee would be interesting within b the confines of the story. Storm is predictable (though not as predictable as the vote getting canceled) though she and this cast need to sort of stay within there own book after the vote since they show up practically every issue of Amazing X-men....which is ok sometimes but not every issue.
I say rachel, they have pushed and pushed the issue i think its a way to show her as leader and let her try on the role for a while. I mean storm i think is the leader in amazing right? lol so let her do her thing there esp when wolverine is dead, it would be awesome to see Rachel take charge then maybe work more with her father to cause some chaos
Out of the remaining choices I think Betsy would be a stronger leader than Rachel, and I don't think M or Jubilee fit the role of leader. At least not this particular group (a younder/new mutants team maybe).
Team Rachel! I hope when Rachel takes over, kitty and the 05 would return. I mean it was only Rachel who stuck with every decision kitty made during BOTA.
I think storm will be going solo( as per STORM #1 ad)
@mcklayn: do you think the dynamics between the two x-men teams would change when rachel becomes the leader, plus wolverine is to die soon too? is there a possibility that the two groups would be one again?
I would love to switch it up with M taking the lead, but Rachel is generally who I think would make the most sense in that position.
TBH, I don't think Storm belongs in a leadership position, anymore, due to how she's been written over the past few years. She and Psylocke are both too unstable to lead teams, even though they are very powerful.
@phoenixofthetides: How is Storm unstabled, when she has shown to be a competent leader as of late?
I don't consider a personality that needs to dramatically cut their hair and change their costume when they have personal issues stable. And unfortunately, writers have tended to write her more as if other people merely allow her to be the leader, and not as if she is a leader in her own merit. I see her less as being a leader at this point, and more as someone with enough power to get what they want. She's spent a large portion of the last few events just being in the background or with minimal input into the direction of the team.
@phoenixofthetides: How is Storm unstabled, when she has shown to be a competent leader as of late?
I don't consider a personality that needs to dramatically cut their hair and change their costume when they have personal issues stable. And unfortunately, writers have tended to write her more as if other people merely allow her to be the leader, and not as if she is a leader in her own merit. I see her less as being a leader at this point, and more as someone with enough power to get what they want. She's spent a large portion of the last few events just being in the background or with minimal input into the direction of the team.
Lol considering the past leaders of the X-men, cutting her hair is the least unstable thing done so far. Also considering her resume as field leader, Storm has led multiple teams and has earned the respect amongst her peers. Moreso than anyone on the list. I don't see any pretentious behavior from her just because she demands that respect. Thats what makes the character so appealing, her domineering pressence. Writers as of late have been giving her a voice again and (that's something we haven't seen in years) making her status more pivotal in the X-verse and MU as a whole. What merits Rachel or M a good leader?
Lol considering the past leaders of the X-men, cutting her hair is the least unstable thing done so far. Also considering her resume as field leader, Storm has led multiple teams and has earned the respect amongst her peers. Moreso than anyone on the list. I don't see any pretentious behavior from her just because she demands that respect. Thats what makes the character so appealing, her domineering pressence. Writers as of late have been giving her a voice again and (that's something we haven't seen in years) making her status more pivotal in the X-verse and MU as a whole. What merits Rachel or M a good leader?
Agreed. Neither Rachel nor M have a leadership resume to really even speak on the issue, let alone one that would compare to what Storm has accomplished.
Agreed. Neither Rachel nor M have a leadership resume to really even speak on the issue, let alone one that would compare to what Storm has accomplished.
Exactly. Rachel and M need to take a seat and take out a pen and some paper because neither one of these little girls have half the experience Storm has. Rachel is already on thin ice and on a verge of a demotion as the team's source of communication behind Betsy and M is just a filler for Rogue. Last I checked fillers don't stay long enough to lead any team.
Agreed. Neither Rachel nor M have a leadership resume to really even speak on the issue, let alone one that would compare to what Storm has accomplished.
Exactly. Rachel and M need to take a seat and take out a pen and some paper because neither one of these little girls have half the experience Storm has. Rachel is already on thin ice and on a verge of a demotion as the team's source of communication behind Betsy and M is just a filler for Rogue. Last I checked fillers don't stay long enough to lead any team.
@phoenixofthetides: How is Storm unstabled, when she has shown to be a competent leader as of late?
I don't consider a personality that needs to dramatically cut their hair and change their costume when they have personal issues stable. And unfortunately, writers have tended to write her more as if other people merely allow her to be the leader, and not as if she is a leader in her own merit. I see her less as being a leader at this point, and more as someone with enough power to get what they want. She's spent a large portion of the last few events just being in the background or with minimal input into the direction of the team.
Lol considering the past leaders of the X-men, cutting her hair is the least unstable thing done so far. Also considering her resume as field leader, Storm has led multiple teams and has earned the respect amongst her peers. Moreso than anyone on the list. I don't see any pretentious behavior from her just because she demands that respect. Thats what makes the character so appealing, her domineering pressence. Writers as of late have been giving her a voice again and (that's something we haven't seen in years) making her status more pivotal in the X-verse and MU as a whole. What merits Rachel or M a good leader?
My main issue is that newer characters haven't been given the chance to step up and prove themselves as leaders, because the older/senior characters keep asserting themselves over them. We've seen what Storm and Cyclops can do; it's a new time with new problems - time for new blood, such as Dani, Sam, Rachel and others to step up and take the reins.
I have to add, though, that having a domineering presence, doesn't make one a good leader - it merely means that it's easy for that person to bully, browbeat or assert themselves over others. I don't find it particularly appealing - I prefer leaders, in the comics world, like Captain America or Mr. Fantastic, that don't lead by being the "alpha male" but because other characters, even more powerful ones, accord them respect.
Personally, I think it's lazy writing to always go back to the same stable of "leader-type characters" for every roster, and I think a lot of a character's charm is lost when they are constantly put in that position. I think this is what has held Storm back as a character for so long - she's become so strongly identified with leadership as her sole defining character trait, that writers often don't have anything else for her to do. When she is rightly a follower in a story line, she is relegated to glass cannon lightning bolt background character or silent team member status because some writers just don't know how to tell an interesting story about her without it. She needs to sit down and put her own affairs in order before I'd be interested seeing her in a leadership position again; we've seen her do this for years, and it would be good to see her do something else. Blame the writers if you have to, but there are many X-Men fans who have their favorite characters but don't constantly expect them to get leadership positions all the time. I think many Storm fans forget that she was a relatively new character, and completely unproven as a leader, when she was given field leader status. The series is going to stagnate if it's the same few characters heading the team each time there is a roster change.
The core question is: How does a junior member get experience as a leader when the old salts keep taking the promotions, leadership positions, major story lines, etc."?
It's a Catch 22 to criticize a character for not having enough experience, when they aren't given the opportunity to get that experience, and it makes the X-Men fans and writers seem like they enjoy enforcing glass ceiling character limitations because of a fear of change.
I prefer Storm or Jubilee. Rachel has been annoying in this title.
My feelings as well. I'm OK with Rachel over all, but so far I could have done without her on the cast.
I don't mind Rachel in team. I just don't like the fact that she giving Storm grief. She doesn't think Storm should be leader of the team. I mean does Rachel have more experience as a leader than Storm ? No
So she shouldn't be giving her grief.
I wouldn't mind Jubilee being leader, cause it does feel like she should be the center of the team.
My main issue is that newer characters haven't been given the chance to step up and prove themselves as leaders, because the older/senior characters keep asserting themselves over them. We've seen what Storm and Cyclops can do; it's a new time with new problems - time for new blood, such as Dani, Sam, Rachel and others to step up and take the reins.
I can understand your frustration with newer characters not being used and can agree with your case in some ways. However I don't believe senior members are hogging the spotlight in the way you make it seem. Marvel is trying to make money so they are going to push characters with a larger following. Dani nor Sam have enough of a following or make enough of an impact to lead an entire team of X-men consisting of vetrans who are more experienced and more popular than they. Honestly how can Dani or Sam impact the schism that's occuring? How can they run a school full of rebellous powered teens after Wolverine's death? How will Rachel?
I have to add, though, that having a domineering presence, doesn't make one a good leader - it merely means that it's easy for that person to bully, browbeat or assert themselves over others. I don't find it particularly appealing - I prefer leaders, in the comics world, like Captain America or Mr. Fantastic, that don't lead by being the "alpha male" but because other characters, even more powerful ones, accord them respect.
Having a domineering pressence makes a character more respected and alluring at the same time, but that's my personal opinion. Storm has never bullied anyone to my knowledge until recently, but that was under extreme circumstances lol. To each's own I guess...
Such a great Role Model
Personally, I think it's lazy writing to always go back to the same stable of "leader-type characters" for every roster, and I think a lot of a character's charm is lost when they are constantly put in that position. I think this is what has held Storm back as a character for so long - she's become so strongly identified with leadership as her sole defining character trait, that writers often don't have anything else for her to do. When she is rightly a follower in a story line, she is relegated to glass cannon lightning bolt background character or silent team member status because some writers just don't know how to tell an interesting story about her without it. She needs to sit down and put her own affairs in order before I'd be interested seeing her in a leadership position again; we've seen her do this for years, and it would be good to see her do something else. Blame the writers if you have to, but there are many X-Men fans who have their favorite characters but don't constantly expect them to get leadership positions all the time. I think many Storm fans forget that she was a relatively new character, and completely unproven as a leader, when she was given field leader status. The series is going to stagnate if it's the same few characters heading the team each time there is a roster change.
Then I think you're completely overlooking all of Storm's other traits and skills. She's a very complex character with many layers to her persona than "leader" as you said. So much so writers such as Latour, Pak, Kyle/Yost, and Nero have all taken interest in the character and have all expressed love for the different applications of her personality and points in her life. That goes to show how impactful the character is that writers take a general interest in writing her. Heck even Bendis is doing better. Despite the fact that Rachel has been playing communicator for years now, we can't seem to say the same for her...
You better get those batteries fixed Rae
The core question is: How does a junior member get experience as a leader when the old salts keep taking the promotions, leadership positions, major story lines, etc."?
Simple answer, because they're not as interesting. Honestly no one cares what's going on or really want to follow Dani or Sam. The bards usually blow up in dissucssion around the old salts. Also Neither of those characters have yet to step up to the plate and take on the same responsibilities as Cyclops, Storm or even Wolverine for that matter.
It's a Catch 22 to criticize a character for not having enough experience, when they aren't given the opportunity to get that experience, and it makes the X-Men fans and writers seem like they enjoy enforcing glass ceiling character limitations because of a fear of change.
Its also a Catch22 to criticize a character off one trait of their personality, when there are clearly layers. All of those characters you mentioned had their opportunity to become something but all fell flat in comparison to the vetrans.
I'd prefer to see Rachel take the helm for character progression and change. In regards to Storm, I keep remembering how her last big team disintegrated under her leadership. Her deciding to manipulate, mislead and lie to other members causing Colossus, Domino and Pixie to basically abandon her. Hell Piotr and her came to blows over it all. For that matter I don't think she really had the support of Betsy either considering she warned Ororo about what was happening and she disregarded it, just like she disregarded anyone on her teams opinions. That isn't leadership, it's a dictatorship. Granted, in the new team she surprised me by not just barking down the challenge to her position.
Moreover, I agree with @phoenixofthetides that someone else needs a chance to shine, maybe place Storm in a mentor or confidant position where she advises and puts in her point of view but isn't leading them. You know, let her grow in another direction, especially with her having her own solo coming.
Last I checked, people running their own solo books turned out to be poor leaders in the X-men world.
@numi: I can agree with Rachel getting some development, but to completely overlook a characters traits just to make a case for Rachel is ridiculous. She definitely had and still has the support of Betsy. Her and Colossus had a disagreement but yet he still shows up at her door step with open arms. Domino and Pixie were fillers so they don't matter and her team didn't disintergrate it fluctuated considering the circumstances. And last I checked Wolverine caried a solo and led many teams.
@numi: I can agree with Rachel getting some development, but to completely overlook a characters traits just to make a case for Rachel is ridiculous. She definitely had and still has the support of Betsy. Her and Colossus had a disagreement but yet he still shows up at her door step with open arms. Domino and Pixie were fillers so they don't matter and her team didn't disintergrate it fluctuated considering the circumstances. And last I checked Wolverine caried a solo and led many teams.
What character traits am I completely overlooking?
As to their "disagreement", I seem to see it a lot worse than you do. If I remember he distinctly told her he was through with her and that she needed to consider what she was doing carefully. Having him show up with "open arms" to be summarily dismissed by Ororo is poor writing in my opinion. There should have been a much bigger deal over the whole thing and why he returned is something that should be explained at some point. I should point out the only person he actually touched was Kurt but I expect they may revisit this in future issues.
To dismiss other characters as fillers who don't matter is further proof of her unsuitability to lead, to inspire her team. She tends to be a bully lately who demands things and while that may work with children, it only works with adults as long as they choose to tolerate it. The "team" is not a military unit. The word overbearing comes to mind and is one of the reasons that I started disliking her.
As for Wolverine, he's not a good leader. His strategies are non existent and his group tactics are pitifully non-inclusive of the rest of the team. He's a lone wolf and was always meant to just be a brawler and loner. It's what he's good at and should have stayed there.
Anyway, the point being that for the writers, this is a chance for them to allow someone else to step into that role with a very believable reason of simply not having sufficient time and then developing another character. Of those remaining, I like Rachel the most. She has her own telepathy and doesn't need to rely on another person to do her communications for her. She's an incredibly powerful telepath and telekinetic. She doesn't really have strong ties to either side in the ridiculous Wolverine/Cyclops dispute. She was one of the more stable people in the recent events like AvX, hell she was one of the few that took the higher road, shown by how she interacted with Hope. Add on top of that her ability to reign the Phoenix in for all the time she had it and that's a huge strength of will, something no one else has ever done. With that strength of will and strength of character I think she's earned a shot at leading.
@numi: I can agree with Rachel getting some development, but to completely overlook a characters traits just to make a case for Rachel is ridiculous. She definitely had and still has the support of Betsy. Her and Colossus had a disagreement but yet he still shows up at her door step with open arms. Domino and Pixie were fillers so they don't matter and her team didn't disintergrate it fluctuated considering the circumstances. And last I checked Wolverine caried a solo and led many teams.
I don't think anyone is overlooking a character's traits. My point was that the writers often don't explore any of Storm's other traits, and I was saying other characters should get the opportunity to hold a leadership position. I think it's perfectly normal for a character to take a leave of absence from leadership due to personal issues; this is what happened years ago when Cyclops was recovering from the loss of Jean. Technically, he didn't hold a leadership position for years - which IMHO was good for the character. Notice that I'm a Cyclops fan, but I also said that he shouldn't be holding a leadership position, either, based on where he is mentally.
I look at these comics as a unified story and collection of characters first, and my personal favorites don't come into play when I'm assessing what I think would "work" for a certain character. Magik is one of my favorite characters, but I don't think she is a leader - if a writer was able to craft a good story in which it made sense, I would change my mind, but note that I'm talking about characters who have proven themselves to be leaders or have the mettle, whether in the future, alternate timelines or on particular missions.
@roddy010: Well said. Rachel has been giving Storm a hard time for sometime now and Ororo is not known for taking much guff from anyone. She even made Storm question her effectiveness as a leader despite that fact that she has been under Storm's leadership in the past (leadership of a splinter team that saved her life as I recall she was enslaved by Bogan) and had no problem with it before. This conflict is simply forced for the sake of having drama.
And as you explained Storm is a strong character who has the clout as a leader and the fan following for people to want to read about her. Rachel would be better suited to lead a team that did not include Storm, or another move proven leader, on it's roster. I don't see her giving orders to Storm, Cyclops, or Cable. It just looks weird to me. Maybe they can take her (though I think Jubilee would be better) for the field leader in the New X-Men book when that comes back.
I prefer Storm or Jubilee. Rachel has been annoying in this title.
My feelings as well. I'm OK with Rachel over all, but so far I could have done without her on the cast.
I don't mind Rachel in team. I just don't like the fact that she giving Storm grief. She doesn't think Storm should be leader of the team. I mean does Rachel have more experience as a leader than Storm ? No
So she shouldn't be giving her grief.
I wouldn't mind Jubilee being leader, cause it does feel like she should be the center of the team.
Her or Storm should be leader.
Agreed. It feels so forced. Storm and Rachel used to be close friends and have worked together for years. I can understand tension between them over what was happening with Karima, but who should lead...? I don't see Rachel having this issue with Storm. Decisions that are made? Yes. Who should lead in the field? Not al all.
I think Jubilee would be a good leader for the younger X-Men. I liked her taking the lead when the sentinels attacked the beach. I just don't see her leading the Sr. X-Men. I think she is ready to take on a bigger role. Especially if Shogo is going to get shelved once Wood moves on.
you know, i've now read this issue finally... (i know i'm so behind) and frankly i reckon the final vote will come down to Storm abstaining or even out of respect, voting for Rachel, and all the others voting for Storm herself to be the leader. She impressed Rachel in this issue a lot, you could see it. Psylocke is a guaranteed Storm vote - they're the ultimate warrior-sisters lately. Jubilee knows Storm as well or better than Rachel, she'll vote Ro for sure. M might vote for herself, but i suspect she'd vote for Storm too, realising how impressive Storm is - since she's only just now started to fight alongside her.
The Karima issue aside, the BOTA BS with Rachel and Kitty was some of the worst writing ever, i suspect in large part from a character motivation Kitty didn't want to lose her new-found prestige as the new Xavier... training the original x-men, but their stance made no sense. There hasn't really been any reason aside from these for Rachel to question Storm's authority.
Log in to comment