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#1 Edited by dondave (37550 posts) - - Show Bio

Brian Bendis has revealed who X-23 was kissing on the All New X-Men #20 Cover

#2 Edited by Joygirl (20000 posts) - - Show Bio

Wat

#3 Posted by JohnnyGat (1568 posts) - - Show Bio

This is how they ship Logan and Scott without shipping Logan and Scott

#4 Posted by Mercy_ (92704 posts) - - Show Bio

Was it explicitly stated that he would be her romantic interest, or are you just assuming that based off of the cover?

Moderator
#5 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Wat

I can't really think of a more apt response.

#6 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: I don't know much about her, but...is it just me or is this completely random?

#7 Posted by DEGRAAF (7881 posts) - - Show Bio

When did she get out of the Hunger games situation?

#8 Edited by War Killer (20213 posts) - - Show Bio

So a younger version of Cyclops is kissing a clone of Wolverine... O_o

#9 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@nico4ever: It's a mix of completely random and completely ridiculous.

With a dash of WTF thrown in for good measure, especially with Laura coming fresh from Murder World -- where she's been forced into violence -- and considering Scott's role (even if it was older Scott) in putting her on X-Force.

#10 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Edited by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: maybe...the cover is lying...?

Oh, quite possibly. Rather, not so much lying as misleading. As far as I can tell -- and @mercy_ alluded to this -- no "relationship" has been confirmed, merely the identity of the kisser. There are plenty of things this cover could represent which aren't nearly as aggravating as the comments I've seen (and, if I'm honest, the comments even I have made) really call for. Like I said in a different thread, I've come to trust Bendis to an extent, and I'm hoping he doesn't upset me here.

#12 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: bendis does seem to have a history up upsetting a lot of people though...

#13 Edited by JetiiMitra (8644 posts) - - Show Bio

@johnnygat said:

This is how they ship Logan and Scott without shipping Logan and Scott

Genius. And people act like Marvel has run out of good ideas. I can't wait for Spider-Man / femclone Daredevil. Or Daredevil / femclone Spider-man.

#14 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13190 posts) - - Show Bio

OOOOOOOHHHHH GOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Its the Apocalypse!!!!!!!

#15 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11626 posts) - - Show Bio

HAHAHHAHAHA the irony I can't even take it I'm laughing so hard. Marvels dream of hooking up Scott and Logan has finally come true ahahahahahahaha

:|

#16 Edited by comicbookfan93 (410 posts) - - Show Bio

I bet this cover has literally nothing to do with what actually happens inside the comic

Ps looks like they do get new costumes

#17 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (11626 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@johnnygat said:

This is how they ship Logan and Scott without shipping Logan and Scott

Genius. And people act like Marvel has run out of good ideas. I can't wait for Spider-Man / femclone Daredevil. Or Daredevil / femclone Spider-man.

Don't give them ideas they might transfer Ultimate Jessica Drew to the 616 and actually do it! (Or Jackal will make a new one himself)

#18 Edited by Lightburst (163 posts) - - Show Bio

My anger is so overflowing right now i was so 50/50 on Bendis now pure hate of the man.

Id rather her die in AA instead of getting her back with the X-Men like this.

#19 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightburst: Why are you so against the idea of her returning to the X-Men? Just curious (she's my favorite character and I've disliked her being on the Avengers side of things pretty much since it happened -- solo, maybe, but if she's with people it should be mutants imo).

#20 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

*clears throat*

F*CK YOU BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS!

#21 Edited by Wolverine08 (42409 posts) - - Show Bio

#22 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

So a younger version of Cyclops is kissing a clone of Wolverine... O_o

SHE"S NOT A CLONE. That's like saying Terry McGuiness is a clone of Bruce WAYNE.

JesusChristIfiLiveLIfe

II. Everyone's really mad about this... why?

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#23 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer said:

So a younger version of Cyclops is kissing a clone of Wolverine... O_o

SHE"S NOT A CLONE. That's like saying Terry McGuiness is a clone of Bruce WAYNE.

JesusChristIfiLiveLIfe

II. Everyone's really mad about this... why?

( +)

because it sucks.

#24 Posted by War Killer (20213 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer said:

So a younger version of Cyclops is kissing a clone of Wolverine... O_o

SHE"S NOT A CLONE. That's like saying Terry McGuiness is a clone of Bruce WAYNE.

JesusChristIfiLiveLIfe

II. Everyone's really mad about this... why?

( +)

Dude I know, but when people see that cover that's the first thing they're going to think.

#25 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one said:

II. Everyone's really mad about this... why?

( +)

because it sucks.

I. Why does it suck? Why is it so bad? Honestly curious. I'm totally indifferent about this. I don't see anything wrong with it but I don't think it's AWEsome either.

Dude I know, but when people see that cover that's the first thing they're going to think.

My apologies my good man. I always get worked up about the clone thing force of habit. Forgive me for my brashness.

( +)

#26 Edited by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I know why you're mad. Your mortal enemy is dating your daughter. HA!

I never viewed it this way until now. This makes it funnier.

( +)

#27 Posted by War Killer (20213 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one: I always thought of her as Wolverine's daughter, rather than his clone. But that's just me.

#28 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one: x-23 is really a stranger when it comes towards emotions, she cut herself when she was in love with hellion, and for some time she decided to be alone so sort things out on her own. She has had khemistry with Elixir and Hellion both of who could be good candidates for a love interested. Young Cyclops is the worst choice possible because it's ,

1.weird

2. forced.

3. and quite frankly out of the blue. she just came back from a world of killing and now she's making kissy faces with young cyclops? bull

4. X23 has had bad run ins with cyclops due to her hellish nightmares and her relationship with him on x-force.

plus i don't trust bendis, once he stops caring his writing becomes abysmal.

#29 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one: I always thought of her as Wolverine's daughter, rather than his clone. But that's just me.

The way I remembered on the cartoon they said they used half of his (Logan) blood and half of the doctor's. I also thought that a "clone" had to be an exact replica and or copy and X23 is a girl... totally not an exact copy.

@yung_ancient_one: x-23 is really a stranger when it comes towards emotions, she cut herself when she was in love with hellion, and for some time she decided to be alone so sort things out on her own. She has had khemistry with Elixir and Hellion both of who could be good candidates for a love interested. Young Cyclops is the worst choice possible because it's ,

1.weird

2. forced.

3. and quite frankly out of the blue. she just came back from a world of killing and now she's making kissy faces with young cyclops? bull

4. X23 has had bad run ins with cyclops due to her hellish nightmares and her relationship with him on x-force.

plus i don't trust bendis, once he stops caring his writing becomes abysmal.

I. Interesting, I never knew that about X23 but I think it is normal for her. Well, at least the way I view her I think it would be normal FOR HER to cut herself when she cared for Hellion.

II. Weird can totally work. I have a lot of friends who are dating someone and at first it was "weird" but now makes total sense.

III. Forced? Interesting. I can see that.

IV. Just came back from AArena, emotionally unstable, young Slim is emotionally unstable and they somehow found comfort in each other. Both are young and they let their emotions get the better of themselves.

V. "Bad run ins" does complicate things. I'm not completely sure of the details so I can't say. I only read one issue.

VI. Great point. I have heard this complaint about Bendis a lot. I have yet to have officially read anything from Bendis. I kind of find it funny that I haven't but I always hear things about him.

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#30 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one: I'm not going to bother weighing in on the relationship aspect beyond what I already have (coming out of Arena is a terrible time to have Laura having feelings for anyone, especially if she ends of killing anyone, because that -- her being used as a weapon -- is the sort of thing that would have her feeling most worthless and least likely to want to let anyone close to her).

As for her origin though, ignore the cartoon. Read Innocence Lost, because that's her canon origin (and for what it's worth, it was written by the same people who invented her for the show, so they'd know ^_^). She isn't a clone in official, real-world science sense, but in comic science she is. She is a test-tube baby, created purely from Logan's DNA, except the "minor" detail of changing his Y chromosome to an X. She was incubated inside "her mother" but biologically all of her DNA is straight from Logan. She is as much of a clone as you could possibly be a non-sex-aligned clone.

She is also his daughter by way of adoption, I believe. If nothing else, she's his surrogate daughter.

#31 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert:

I. She will always be Logan's daughter to me.

II. I'm officially viewing her origin as a typo. XP

III. She is feeling most worthless and least likely to want to let anyone close to her so all of the usual people don't work (Hellion/Elixir). Young Slim is feeling worthless too. He hates this new world where everyone hates him. Jean is dead and currently digging Hank more. He feels all alone. She feels all alone. Somehow... they find each other and realize they have been waiting for each other all this time. XP

IV. We don't know what happens in AArena yet... maybe it was all a dream.

Not trying to be obnoxious, I'm just trying to explain how this could possibly work.

Either way,

I give 2 $#!%'s bout this.

( +)

#32 Posted by Kirateufel (25 posts) - - Show Bio

The cover is lying!

#33 Posted by rickpenna (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe not... Maybe is just Mystique playing X-23 to put Jean Grey against Cyclops. She was around JG school before, wasn't she? Or maybe some other shape shifter or Illusionist... And that would be the so called "mysterious force" on the following issue.

#34 Posted by Dayvid3 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer said:

So a younger version of Cyclops is kissing a clone of Wolverine... O_o

SHE"S NOT A CLONE. That's like saying Terry McGuiness is a clone of Bruce WAYNE.

JesusChristIfiLiveLIfe

II. Everyone's really mad about this... why?

( +)

From Marvel's Wiki...

...Doctor Martin Sutter, recruited renowned mutant geneticist. Doctor Sarah Kinney and tasked her with creating a clone. Using the only available genetic sample from Weapon X, which was damaged, they were unable to salvage the Y chromosome after 22 attempts. Kinney then proposed they create a female clone, and though her request was initially denied, she still went ahead and produced a viable female subject...

Sounds like a clone

#35 Posted by War Killer (20213 posts) - - Show Bio

@dayvid3 said:

@yung_ancient_one said:

@war_killer said:

So a younger version of Cyclops is kissing a clone of Wolverine... O_o

SHE"S NOT A CLONE. That's like saying Terry McGuiness is a clone of Bruce WAYNE.

JesusChristIfiLiveLIfe

II. Everyone's really mad about this... why?

( +)

From Marvel's Wiki...

...Doctor Martin Sutter, recruited renowned mutant geneticist. Doctor Sarah Kinney and tasked her with creating a clone. Using the only available genetic sample from Weapon X, which was damaged, they were unable to salvage the Y chromosome after 22 attempts. Kinney then proposed they create a female clone, and though her request was initially denied, she still went ahead and produced a viable female subject...

Sounds like a clone

It's debatable. Some call her a clone, others call her a half-clone, and some simply call her Wolverine's daughter. I'm with the later as X-23 has both a mother (Sarah Kinney) and has Wolverine genetics, which indirectly makes Wolverine her short-of father. Really, when people think of a "clone" they think of someone like Ben Reilly who was a perfect and identical clone of Peter Parker (Spider-Man), but the fact that X-23 isn't a perfect clone (seeing as she's a, y'know, a she) I think it's easier to just look at her as his daughter. Marvel appears to feel this way as well, as in X-23's last series Wolverine spoke to X-23 about adopting her as his daughter, so even Wolverine sees her as such. But again, it's one of those things that's debatable.

#36 Posted by Dayvid3 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer: Well she's an imperfect clone, they went with the other chromosome, but still all wolverine dna, the mother was just an incubator. The origin issue debates the semantics for a panel, clone, or virtual twin, but it's essentially logan dna just a bit tweaked

#37 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer: "Debatable" implies that neither side can be definitively proven. But this one isn't open to interpretation, just people choosing to be wrong and ignore facts. While not, scientifically-speaking, a true clone, she is from a comic science standpoint a clone. Sarah Kinney provided no DNA whatsoever; Laura is 100% Logan's DNA + computer manipulation of chromosome. Nevermind the fact that you can't just change a chromosome, and the many physical features which should thus be far less feminine. Canonically, Laura is a female clone of wolverine. The fact that he sees her as a daughter, and speaks of adoption, does not alter the fact that she is not his daughter by means of procreation. You can say that she's a clone and his daughter, but you cannot argue that she is his daughter instead of a clone.

#38 Posted by War Killer (20213 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

@war_killer: "Debatable" implies that neither side can be definitively proven. But this one isn't open to interpretation, just people choosing to be wrong and ignore facts. While not, scientifically-speaking, a true clone, she is from a comic science standpoint a clone. Sarah Kinney provided no DNA whatsoever; Laura is 100% Logan's DNA + computer manipulation of chromosome. Nevermind the fact that you can't just change a chromosome, and the many physical features which should thus be far less feminine. Canonically, Laura is a female clone of wolverine. The fact that he sees her as a daughter, and speaks of adoption, does not alter the fact that she is not his daughter by means of procreation. You can say that she's a clone and his daughter, but you cannot argue that she is his daughter instead of a clone.

That's why I said it was debatable, because there are multiple views concerning whether she should be looked at as simply a clone of Wolverine or as his daughter. Some see her as a clone while others, like myself, see her as his daughter that just so happens to have his DNA. I'm not saying she's not his clone, I'm simply saying that even though Sarah Kinney did not provide any of her DNA in Laura's creation, she did give birth to Laura and raised her, as best she could, as if Laura were her daughter. Biologically she is an imperfect clone of Wolverine, but because Sarah Kinney gave birth to her I personally see Sarah as Laura's mother, and due to Laura having Wolverine's DNA, I see him as her father. I just find it easier to say she's his daughter rather than his clone, because in reality, despite what lead to Laura's creation, Wolverine see's her as his daughter rather than just another clone.

#39 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer: Well, it just doesn't make much sense, is all. "Easier" doesn't mean better or more correct. The guy has barely had any parental influence over her at all (heck, Gambit might be more deserving of the father title at this point). Daughter is not only inaccurate, but it's actually less applicable overall because while the "daughter" part is unclear/very debate-worthy, the clone part is an incontestable fact of her origin.

Seeing as Logan is neither father by intercourse, legal adoption, or sustained guardianship, I actually don't understand what makes it easier to refer to her as something she, by most definitions, isn't, than the one thing she absolutely, beyond any doubt, has always been.

#40 Posted by War Killer (20213 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

@war_killer: Well, it just doesn't make much sense, is all. "Easier" doesn't mean better or more correct. The guy has barely had any parental influence over her at all (heck, Gambit might be more deserving of the father title at this point). Daughter is not only inaccurate, but it's actually less applicable overall because while the "daughter" part is unclear/very debate-worthy, the clone part is an incontestable fact of her origin.

Seeing as Logan is neither father by intercourse, legal adoption, or sustained guardianship, I actually don't understand what makes it easier to refer to her as something she, by most definitions, isn't, than the one thing she absolutely, beyond any doubt, has always been.

Wolverine did mention his desire to adopt Laura as his legal daughter in X-23's most recent series. He even makes mention that he wouldn't be a great father, but felt that Laura needed to know that she had family and wasn't alone. But still, I'm not saying she's not an imperfect clone of Wolverine, she is and I recognize that as part of her origin. What I am saying in my own opinion, which some can disagree with, but in my opinion I find it easier to look at Laura as the daughter of Sarah Kinney and Wolverine. You may not feel that way, which is fine and I'm not saying you have to, I'm simply saying that's how I look at it and personal feel about the issue.

#41 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

@dayvid3 said:

@yung_ancient_one said:

@war_killer said:

So a younger version of Cyclops is kissing a clone of Wolverine... O_o

SHE"S NOT A CLONE. That's like saying Terry McGuiness is a clone of Bruce WAYNE.

JesusChristIfiLiveLIfe

II. Everyone's really mad about this... why?

( +)

From Marvel's Wiki...

...Doctor Martin Sutter, recruited renowned mutant geneticist. Doctor Sarah Kinney and tasked her with creating a clone. Using the only available genetic sample from Weapon X, which was damaged, they were unable to salvage the Y chromosome after 22 attempts. Kinney then proposed they create a female clone, and though her request was initially denied, she still went ahead and produced a viable female subject...

Sounds like a clone

I already had this conversation with AK Gert (nickname) so I am aware that her official story is that she is in fact a clone. Although it really makes no sense to me. I prefer the story that she is Logan's daughter it is more sensible for me. I mean she is not an exact copy which is the definition for a clone, and it is more than her being a female.

Laura has claws on her feet Wolverine does not. How did they JUST change the gender and somehow that made her have claws on her feet but besides the gender change she is suppose to be a exact copy.

I understand that the fictional fact is that she is a clone but I prefer her to be Logan's daughter. I do not want to continue this conversation/debate (more importantly I dont want to start a debate).

I completely understand that X-23's fictional bio is that she is a clone but I do not agree with it because by definition she is not. I wish her story would have been how I remembered it on the show aka her debut episode/ever.

That she had half of Logan's DNA, and half of the doctors since they could not recreate an exact copy they compromised and made a offspring, a daughter.

Sounds like a better story and it emphasizes Logan carrying for her as a daughter which is also a fictional fact. She is in fictional fact his clone but Logan cares for her as a daughter.

Again, I do not want to argue about this. I know she is a "clone" (imperfect/whatever) in continuity but I still prefer her to be viewed as a daughter, even if the fictional fact says otherwise.

( +)

#42 Edited by Dayvid3 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

@war_killer: Well, it just doesn't make much sense, is all. "Easier" doesn't mean better or more correct. The guy has barely had any parental influence over her at all (heck, Gambit might be more deserving of the father title at this point). Daughter is not only inaccurate, but it's actually less applicable overall because while the "daughter" part is unclear/very debate-worthy, the clone part is an incontestable fact of her origin.

Seeing as Logan is neither father by intercourse, legal adoption, or sustained guardianship, I actually don't understand what makes it easier to refer to her as something she, by most definitions, isn't, than the one thing she absolutely, beyond any doubt, has always been.

indeed

#43 Posted by Primebonnick (2210 posts) - - Show Bio

wow so bendis messed up sentry now this. A young cyclops dating wolverine's daughter never saw that coming

#44 Posted by Vance Astro (91237 posts) - - Show Bio

Ya'll really didn't see this coming?

Moderator
#45 Posted by batmannflash (6222 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol

#46 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3234 posts) - - Show Bio

This is how they ship Logan and Scott without shipping Logan and Scott

It was marvel's idea all along since they created x-23........lol, jk

#47 Posted by RustyRoy (12772 posts) - - Show Bio

This is how they ship Logan and Scott without shipping Logan and Scott

lol

#48 Posted by Outside_85 (9046 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe not... Maybe is just Mystique playing X-23 to put Jean Grey against Cyclops. She was around JG school before, wasn't she? Or maybe some other shape shifter or Illusionist... And that would be the so called "mysterious force" on the following issue.

If that was the case, it would be another reason for me to go "Eh. That camouflage can't be that good." (I know Mystique is very old and very experienced, but fooling everyone with psionics and supersenses is pushing how far I am willing to believe her powers actually go. Whats next? She poses as Thor and walks by Odin and Loki unnoticed?)

Online
#49 Edited by midgard2 (61 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't blame the young Scott Summers, the young Jean Grey has been treating him like crap then this hot young mutant comes along. If I was him, I'd go for it.

#50 Posted by akbogert (3222 posts) - - Show Bio

@midgard2: You can blame him, if that's his mentality. Because then he's using Laura, either to try to get Jean to change, or to relieve his own stress -- but in neither case is he putting Laura's needs as a person first.