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Posted by Teerack (6252 posts) 1 year, 2 months ago

Poll: Wonder Woman - Pants or Panties? (113 votes)

Pants 52%
Panties 48%

#51 Edited by DEGRAAF (7881 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer: lol not gonna lie i have never heard someone use the term cheesecake before or know what it means

@ltbrd said:

I don't see any reason why her outfit can't be closer than my ancient greek warrior friend here (sans helmet and weaponry) with a few adjustments:

- Take away the undershirt, or at least get rid of the sleeves even if there is clearly dark blue clothe under the torso armor)

- Keep the cuirass skin tight with the same dark red and silver color scheme as it is now

- Make the short dark blue with silver stripe (the only star should be on her tiara, I personally don't like the star-pattern pants design)

- Shorten the greaves so they don't go above the knees and make them dark red with silver outline

- Sandals instead of boots

- Plain silver bracelets

- Plain, silver tiara with red star on the front

Done. Nice, simple, related to her origin, not a swim suit, can work for both comics and live action.

Why is that so hard when everyone else is getting redesigns?

Black Canary lost her fishnets

I would like to see a pic of your description drawn out but it sounds like what i have been wanting for her as well

#52 Edited by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the last comment I'll make since I don't want to get drawn into this very tired comic book argument. First, let me be clear that I don't have a problem with the occasional cheesecake picture (for the record, "cheesecake" is a common comic book term describing pictures of women drawn with overt purpose of making them sexual - usually with huge breasts and exaggerated curves, and in poses that emphasize sex appeal) when it makes sense in the context of a character/story. However, the comment I was reacting to was one that claimed that Wonder Woman and cleavage go together like peanut butter and jelly. That statement implies that if Wonder Woman's breasts aren't huge she isn't really Wonder Woman, or that drawing her without huge breasts is a bad idea, and I think that that statement is absurd. Golden Age Wonder Woman didn't have huge breasts, and it wasn't really until the 90s that the current trend of massive breasts started to crop up.

Furthermore, the notion that men are as exposed as women is simply false. Sure, the men are super muscular and often scantily clad, but the exaggerated muscles are a sign of their exaggerated strength. Drawing women with huge breasts exaggerates (not celebrates) them as sexual objects. It would be the equivalent of giving all the male characters giant penises bulging out of their tights.

Again, I'm fine with buxom women in comics from time to time, but it's statements like the one I quoted, that seem to think that huge breasts are a requirement, that bother me. The large breasts in comics are a blatant attempt to cater to male fantasies (by objectifying women), in the same way that the muscles on the men are (by fulfilling the fantasy of what men wish they looked like). Why do you think so few women read superhero comics? The men don't have the body type that most women find attractive (contrary to popular belief, most - not all, but the majority - of women prefer a lean and fit look to the meathead look), and the depictions of women reduce female bodies to a pair of breasts. There are other ways to celebrate a woman's body than to give her two giant knockers.

#53 Posted by Bruxae (13834 posts) - - Show Bio

Pants so much.. Im really sad they didnt go with this outfit.

#54 Edited by Teerack (6252 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

(for the record, "cheesecake" is a common comic book term describing pictures of women drawn with overt purpose of making them sexual - usually with huge breasts and exaggerated curves, and in poses that emphasize sex appeal)

Furthermore, the notion that men are as exposed as women is simply false. Sure, the men are super muscular and often scantily clad, but the exaggerated muscles are a sign of their exaggerated strength. Drawing women with huge breasts exaggerates (not celebrates) them as sexual objects. It would be the equivalent of giving all the male characters giant penises bulging out of their tights.

The slang cheese cake isn't actually linked to comics and could be used to describe any kind of stereotypical bombshell type girl.

The second part.... just try googling secondary sexual characteristics for men and woman.... about the penises... you do realize that in most drawings guys have bulges the size of their knees right?

I've never really understood the logic that women have wanting to victimize their gender as much as possible... it's highly counter productive to any feminist goal. :P

#55 Posted by Strider92 (16446 posts) - - Show Bio

Pants by far. Looks sooooooo much better:

#56 Edited by lilben42 (2543 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: It looks weird to me. I think these costumes would look best. Especially the third one.

#57 Posted by ltbrd (562 posts) - - Show Bio

@theovoxo: You nailed it on the head. Having small shorts is fine, they clearly work in a real life situation. You have female mma fighters that wear them and I see women at my crossfit gym wearing them all the time or women running in them every day.

The issue is when artists go to the thong approach or showcase the torso piece as barely covering her body. Was playing Injustice yesterday and my wife (who used to be a DD but had a reduction to B-C range because she was starting to have back problems) was laughing her ass off at how low her armor was and the amount of boob spillage that was being depicted. I'm sure she would say the same thing of any Soul Caliber, Mortal Combat, or Tekken female fighter as well so its not just a Wonder Woman thing.

Not that depicting Leonidas in leather boxers or briefs is any better. Dr. Manhattan I can forgive slightly cause the guy doesn't actually need armor.

For the Group: That's where my issue lies.....whether Wonder Woman needs a more traditional Greek warrior look/armor or not. I think it would have been better to showcase her in a more traditional look than what she's had up to this point. From a story point, her attire just doesn't make any sense. Why would she be the only Amazon wearing something like this when everyone else has a more ancient Greek look. As an ambassador of Themyscira to "Man's World" wouldn't she ensure to look like an Amazon in order to properly represent her home?

Also, I've always thought of Wonder Woman as representing the middle of the extremes that are Superman and Batman as part of her role in the Trinity. Superhuman but not as powerful as Superman and making use of weapons and armor like Batman but not to the degree that Bruce has so many gadgets. Which is why I think her use of weapons in Injustice and the modifications to her bracelets in the new 52 are rather appropriate. Wonder Woman should use martial weapons and it would be nice if the modified bracelets idea would grow a bit so that she's able to conjure more than just swords. Instead of deflecting bullets with her bracelets she would conjure a shield for one or both arms as needed. When she doesn't want to cause lethal injury she could conjure a staff, which being magical in nature could still wreck and even the playing field against Superman-level opponents that are vulnerable to magic, when she's got to hit a target at a distance she could conjure a javelin or a bow and arrow (giving a nod to when Artemis wore the armor and used a bow and arrow). Or she could just fight bare handed with a Cestus on each hand (thus channeling magical energy into each punch just as her boots/sandals could each kick). Basically you change her depiction to highlight the fact that she is a master combatant, a true artist of warfare and that's seen in how she fights and what she uses to fight. This would also solidify stripping away any idea of being bulletproof but keep her superhuman durability to blunt force trauma (which is further enhanced by the fact she is wearing actual armor) and that she could tangle with Superman (should she need to) and actually fight him toe to toe because she would be striking him with magic (much like Captain Marvel/Shazam) rather than just brute strength.

As for the way Wonder Woman is drawn....I have known women during my 20 years of competing in sports and now going to the gym and hitting crossfit that are naturally athletic and have a similar build to what Wonder Woman is depicted as (minus the overemphasized curving back unless they want to stand like that for a few seconds) having. Plus, she's never been drawn as sickly thin (like, say, a Barbie doll is constructed). I also don't think it plays exclusively to "male fantasies" because all the guys are drawn overly sexualized and "unrealistic" to what the general male population, even those that are physically fit, look like. So comics these days play equally to male and female fantasies of the human body......but in story content I would agree that comics are still male oriented vice being unisex in how men and women are depicted and treated in the stories. Image-wise though I think its split quite well and the debate doesn't rest so much on covered vs uncovered but in total look.

Even with comics being fantasy you still want to have some reality thrown into the mix in order to bridge the gap between the fantasy of the story and the reality of the reader. Wonder Woman's current look doesn't quite do that but could with a few adjustments.

#58 Posted by ltbrd (562 posts) - - Show Bio

I see nothing wrong with this look in a live action setting if:

- The straps were wider so that her shoulders were protected. The very top of the chest could still be left open rather than covering completely up to her neck but at least the shoulders should be protected while at the same time increasing the believability of the armor.

- extend the skirt straps (can't remember the exact name of that piece) to mid-thigh and have skin-tight short short/biker shorts/whatever those daisy duke-esque things are called underneath.

- replace the gold with silver

It would be feminine, not a huge departure from her comic book depiction, and immediately give a visual cue for the audience to understand the ancient Greek traditions and attire the Amazons still maintain.

#59 Posted by PowerHerc (83461 posts) - - Show Bio

Panties, bikini bottoms, shorts or whatever you want to call 'em - That's what Wonder Woman looks best in.

Not pants.

#60 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

Thong song

#61 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer the pants:

But the new costume doesn't look bad either way. (I do prefer how Chiang draws her to the Barbie-doll way Lee does, regardless of costume.)

I'm surprised the new 52 Earth-2 design doesn't get more love.

#62 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

For the 58% that said pants.............I HATE YOUR F$&CKING GUTS!!!!!

#63 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6286 posts) - - Show Bio

For the 58% that said pants.............I HATE YOUR F$&CKING GUTS!!!!!

That's kind of harsh. Are they really so bad?

#64 Posted by lifeofvibe (3482 posts) - - Show Bio
#65 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1259 posts) - - Show Bio
#66 Edited by lifeofvibe (3482 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: why is her pants outlining underwear?

#67 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Pants or Skirt over Panties.

#68 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe said:

@fodigg: why is her pants outlining underwear?

I assume it was either seams or the same "armored" look they were giving to all JL members in the revamp.

#69 Posted by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

@ltbrd said:

I see nothing wrong with this look in a live action setting if:

- The straps were wider so that her shoulders were protected. The very top of the chest could still be left open rather than covering completely up to her neck but at least the shoulders should be protected while at the same time increasing the believability of the armor.

- extend the skirt straps (can't remember the exact name of that piece) to mid-thigh and have skin-tight short short/biker shorts/whatever those daisy duke-esque things are called underneath.

- replace the gold with silver

It would be feminine, not a huge departure from her comic book depiction, and immediately give a visual cue for the audience to understand the ancient Greek traditions and attire the Amazons still maintain.

I'd never seen this before, but this is a good look for her - a nice balance of traditional Greek and comic book Wonder Woman. In this context, it makes sense for her not to wear pants, since the ancient Greeks weren't exactly big on them.

I don't, though, understand those who get so angry when she does wear pants. Is it really that offensive?

#70 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio
#71 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (738 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:

This is the last comment I'll make since I don't want to get drawn into this very tired comic book argument. First, let me be clear that I don't have a problem with the occasional cheesecake picture (for the record, "cheesecake" is a common comic book term describing pictures of women drawn with overt purpose of making them sexual - usually with huge breasts and exaggerated curves, and in poses that emphasize sex appeal) when it makes sense in the context of a character/story. However, the comment I was reacting to was one that claimed that Wonder Woman and cleavage go together like peanut butter and jelly. That statement implies that if Wonder Woman's breasts aren't huge she isn't really Wonder Woman, or that drawing her without huge breasts is a bad idea, and I think that that statement is absurd. Golden Age Wonder Woman didn't have huge breasts, and it wasn't really until the 90s that the current trend of massive breasts started to crop up.

Furthermore, the notion that men are as exposed as women is simply false. Sure, the men are super muscular and often scantily clad, but the exaggerated muscles are a sign of their exaggerated strength. Drawing women with huge breasts exaggerates (not celebrates) them as sexual objects. It would be the equivalent of giving all the male characters giant penises bulging out of their tights.

Again, I'm fine with buxom women in comics from time to time, but it's statements like the one I quoted, that seem to think that huge breasts are a requirement, that bother me. The large breasts in comics are a blatant attempt to cater to male fantasies (by objectifying women), in the same way that the muscles on the men are (by fulfilling the fantasy of what men wish they looked like). Why do you think so few women read superhero comics? The men don't have the body type that most women find attractive (contrary to popular belief, most - not all, but the majority - of women prefer a lean and fit look to the meathead look), and the depictions of women reduce female bodies to a pair of breasts. There are other ways to celebrate a woman's body than to give her two giant knockers.

Save all that for Oprah, these pictures speak for themselves...

However I will say that it's telling that the above apron and t-shirt have cleavage already built into their designs and their wearers seem to enjoy that fact.

Don't be mad at me, I'm not sexist, it was Gail Simone herself that said Wonder Woman has the second best set of boobs in the DCU, behind Power Girl.

#72 Edited by Teerack (6252 posts) - - Show Bio

Are people really aruging over something like boobsize, when that's something that chages from artist to artist and has no real set size because of style/perspective reasons? That's just silly.

#73 Edited by snarkybits (349 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: cuz boobies are serious business...(also, lol @ aruging :D )

#74 Posted by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio
@teerack said:

Are people really aruging over something like boobsize, when that's something that chages from artist to artist and has no real set size because of style/perspective reasons? That's just silly.

I was arguing exactly that: that different artists should feel free to draw her with whatever proportions they want. Others were insisting that she must always have giant breasts.

#75 Posted by MPfly88 (155 posts) - - Show Bio

Panties are here to stay.

DC is a business and the reality is that sex sells. You think Man of Steel had a shirtless Henry Cavill for story reasons? And guess what? Almost every woman who saw that film commented on how hot he looked. But does that cheapen the character in any way? Did the film suffer for it? I mean it suffered for different reasons but not because of a sexy scene.

DC tried out pants on Diana for a while, but then went back to panties. There's a reason why they did this. People need to stop getting bent outta shape over her costume. I love it and I hope it never changes, and it probably won't.

#76 Edited by Teerack (6252 posts) - - Show Bio

@mpfly88: They were really close to keeping the pants in the New 52 to the point where they had her with pants in the original tv trailer, and action figures.

The only real reason they went back to panites was because they completly reworked all of her lore and they needed to try and help ground her a Wonder Woman still, so they went with the classic iconic look.

#77 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

Pants by far. Looks sooooooo much better:

#78 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

What can one say? Big tits save lives.

#79 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (738 posts) - - Show Bio

@dmessmer said:
@teerack said:

Are people really aruging over something like boobsize, when that's something that chages from artist to artist and has no real set size because of style/perspective reasons? That's just silly.

I was arguing exactly that: that different artists should feel free to draw her with whatever proportions they want. Others were insisting that she must always have giant breasts.

That is not what I said, I said "Wonder Woman and cleavage go together like peanut-butter and jelly". Obviously I'm not alone in that opinion, because cleavage often appears on WW merchandise.

Small breasts can have cleavage too, however Lynda Carter's weren't small and she's the perfect representation of the character to me.

There's nothing vulgar, tasteless or disproportionate about her. Her breasts are only the focus for uptight members of "the Boobie Police".

#80 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6169 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is hot and she's an amazonian it doesn't matter if she has pants on or not ( I want her to have panties ) but if Wonder Woman wants so show some skin let her.

#81 Posted by Ace20XD6 (235 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm all right with the panties look if it isn't drawn like a thong.

#82 Posted by JuliusTakalua (270 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it weird that all of the JL get cool armor redesigns and WW is more or less the same. I think she needs armor, something like what Donna Troy wore.

Something gladiatorial... Like this would be the best. Wonder Woman's a badass hot woman. Her other outfits look like kinky S&M outfits... If they make a movie, the design should look like this. Totally agree with youstegman.

#83 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

How about an outfit that won't slip off her when the air flies into her cleavage while she flies?

And an actual Bra too while we're at it.

Because despite common belief, when a villain sees you having a wardrobe malfunction, he won't stop and oogle, he'll take advantage, kill you/subdue you, then rape the corpse/your helpless self.

#84 Edited by BumpyBoo (9222 posts) - - Show Bio

@theovoxo said:

Cliff Chiang's Divine Armor beats out both of Lee's design in my opinion

Woooow, it's like WW and Xena had the coolest daughter ever. Love this outfit O__O


On topic, I like a little left to the imagination. Unwrapped presents are far less exciting.

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#85 Posted by Wondy_X_Supes (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Panties. I love seeing as much of Diana's beautiful, flawless skin as possible. <3

#86 Posted by Celineness (134 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

It such a shame they decided to not go with this Pre New 52, New 52 teaser design.

Take a look at this figure from the side. It's awful, one of the worst statues of her there has ever been.

Having said that, I would have bought this if she had been wearing the traditional swimsuit and red boots. I despised the pants and hope they never return.

#87 Edited by JetiiMitra (8621 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm fine with either, really, but I voted pants just 'cause it's different.

#88 Edited by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

Pants or at least a skirt.

#89 Edited by Wolverine08 (42174 posts) - - Show Bio

Panties. *Perverted smile*

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#90 Edited by RustyRoy (12684 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like the pants so I voted panties but I don't like it either, I'd prefer skirts.

#91 Edited by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

Pants by far. Looks sooooooo much better:

#92 Posted by M3th (2099 posts) - - Show Bio

Where is the "skirt" option?

-m3th.O.D.-