Why Are So Many Writers Using Wonder Woman Villains Except Azzare

After reading June's Superboy solicit which features the Boy of Steel fighting Dr. Psycho, that makes yet another New 52 book featuring a Wonder Woman villain besides Justice League by Geoff Johns that featured the Cheetah, Men of War written by Ivan Brandon and Jonathan Vankin which introduced the New 52 version of Circe, and the Rotworld crossover in Animal Man and Swamp Thing by Jeff Lemire and Scott Snyder in which Giganta made her first New 52 appearance. I think it's interesting that Azzarello has no use for Wonder Woman's rogues gallery yet several other writers seem to. When is Azzarello going to stop focusing Diana's book on characters(the Olympian pantheon) who are not even exclusive to DC Comics and start using Diana's super-villains?

i like the current direction for WW , its not a superhero book , but a demigod living in modern times , i am ok with this

Because the gods are the villains. I love this series and I believe the pay off will be huge when it's over.

I'm loving Brian Azzarello's Wonder Woman. I'm in no rush to see a change in the books direction......

@judasnixon said:

I'm loving Brian Azzarello's Wonder Woman. I'm in no rush to see a change in the books direction......

true

I do like the Azzarello Wonder Woman but I do think eventually if he does not incorporate her more into the main DCU, DC might decide a change is needed so the title more reflects the DC party line. It would not be the first time something like that happened on a title, espically with a character as prominent as Wonder Woman.

The book seems very disconnected from the rest of the DC Universe. Wonder Woman is dating Superman yet he has never showed up in her solo book. I think Azzarello's book should be published under the Vertigo line so that DC can start up a 2nd solo Wonder Woman book with a straight-up superhero approach featuring her interactions with Superman, Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Artemis, Wonder Girl, Nemesis, and her rogues gallery.

@Power_Guy said: Wonder Woman is dating Superman yet he has never showed up in her solo book

I dont have a problem with that at all. It is one of the reasons I like her solo book.

The same reason why Hector Hammond is in Superman instead of Green Lantern, Cheshire is in Grifter instead of a villian to Arsenal, DC making Deathstroke look like a villian to Green Arrow instead of The Teen Titans, and putting Orion in a Wonder Woman book before Superman.

Johns made it apparent that Cheetah is a WW villian, Giganta only made a very few appearances, and why can't villians from a certain Hero appear attacking another? It happens all the time in comic books. Plus Circe could make an appearance since she is tied to greek mythology.

You all try to find any reason to bash on Azz's run.

@theOVOXO said:

The same reason why Hector Hammond is in Superman instead of Green Lantern, Cheshire is in Grifter instead of a villian to Arsenal, DC making Deathstroke look like a villian to Green Arrow instead of The Teen Titans, and putting Orion in a Wonder Woman book before Superman.

Johns made it apparent that Cheetah is a WW villian, Giganta only made a very few appearances, and why can't villians from a certain Hero appear attacking another? It happens all the time in comic books. Plus Circe could make an appearance since she is tied to greek mythology.

You all try to find any reason to bash on Azz's run.

I don't need to try to find reasons. Azzarello takes care of that all by himself.

I love Azzarello's book, but it would be cool if they did a separate book, Sensation Comics or whatever, so we could see a Wonder Woman more tied into the DCU. It's not that it needs to be done, even though I'd like to see a more Superhero focus on a WW book I still find Azzarello's book to be incredible, but it would be nice to see. Besides, it'd be one of the few second book of a superhero that actually has a difference with it's main one.

Maybe it is the same reason why so many earth villains of Hal Jordan are being used in other titles.

Here's an even better question: Why can't people (read: Most Pre-52 WW fans) stop complaining about this book? And while you're at it, get some new complaints, because this stuff gets old very fast.

I do agree that we need another WW book and Sensation Comics is the way to go. Cause Batman already has 10 billion and Superman is getting a new one. Not to mention DC making a Batman/Superman book instead of a Trinity.

@SmashBrawler said:

Here's an even better question: Why can't people (read: Most Pre-52 WW fans) stop complaining about this book? And while you're at it, get some new complaints, because this stuff gets old very fast.

So does a one-trick pony of mythology.

@Power_Guy said:

@SmashBrawler said:

Here's an even better question: Why can't people (read: Most Pre-52 WW fans) stop complaining about this book? And while you're at it, get some new complaints, because this stuff gets old very fast.

So does a one-trick pony of mythology.

Uh-huh. A critically acclaimed one-trick pony.

@SmashBrawler said:

@Power_Guy said:

@SmashBrawler said:

Here's an even better question: Why can't people (read: Most Pre-52 WW fans) stop complaining about this book? And while you're at it, get some new complaints, because this stuff gets old very fast.

So does a one-trick pony of mythology.

Uh-huh. A critically acclaimed one-trick pony.

Every book has its critics - some positive, some negative. Just because some websites give it positive praise means nothing as far as fan satisfaction or sales go.

@Power_Guy said:

@SmashBrawler said:

@Power_Guy said:

@SmashBrawler said:

Here's an even better question: Why can't people (read: Most Pre-52 WW fans) stop complaining about this book? And while you're at it, get some new complaints, because this stuff gets old very fast.

So does a one-trick pony of mythology.

Uh-huh. A critically acclaimed one-trick pony.

Every book has its critics - some positive, some negative. Just because some websites give it positive praise means nothing as far

"Some"? I'm pretty sure every competent and not-so-competent review site has been praising this book.

as fan satisfaction

The great majority of readers seems to be quite happy with this book, going by the comment section.

or sales go.

Siege sold a lot. Does that make it good? I, Vampire was cancelled due to a lack of sales. Does that make it bad?

I wonder if Brian Azzarello has more creative control over public domain characters like the greek gods than DC's Trade marked characters such as Cheetah or Giganta? It's just a thought......

Azzarello can pretty much do what ever he wants and he's said as much. I was in Azz's corner i the beginning but this story is taking way too long to see it's conclusion.

@SoA said:

its not a superhero book , but a demigod living in modern times , i am ok with this

What's a damn shame here is that Wonder Woman is a Superhero, what she's doing in a non-superho book may be the problem at hand and the reason that there is such a deep divide with fans about the title.

Not only is there a lack of the superhero theme, that I like to see, but the level of decompression of this story is almost obscene and a lot of this could have been handled in far fewer issues than we've been given. Because there is no end in sight, I have been pleading with Wonder Woman fans to get in touch with DC Comics to start another Wonder Woman title so we can see more of the superhero and leave Azzarello to wonder off into his abyssal labyrinth of gods and snore fest-ian drama. No more Zola, no more extended family, no more issues where nothing happens, no more marginalizing of Diana's character to develop peripheral needless nonsense, let's get back to the superhero and answer some questions that this whole N52 era has left festering.

Then 1987 reboot saw Cheetah within the first 10 issues and Circe within the first 20 issues in the interim of GODS & Monsters. This is the kind of pace that I feel this latest incarnation of the title could have benefited from, the Wonder Woman title does not have that balance.

Reading wonder Woman is like reading Batwoman, it is a fresh change from the rest of the comics...I will agree this arc is getting stretched thin though. We have seen several arcs end in DCnU and I have found the Big guns anti-clamatic ("Death of the Family" (batman family) and "H'el on earth" (superman family)) though the fallout might still yet be very redeeming. I enjoyed Batwomens, the Green Lanterns, Rotworld (animal man and Swampthing) and even "court of owls(batman)" very much and there was also decent fallout to work with. If this arc flops and leaves no interesting fallout to work with, WW could be in trouble, people think she should get a new title, they would be lucky if this one stayed (I'm being over dramatic).

@Power_Guy: Also, Medusa was in Batwoman, but so was Wonder Woman.

I don't know if she counts as one of her major villains, but it seems that she was in eleven issues of Wonder Woman.

Thought I should mention that in case it's relevant.

@drgnx said:

people think she should get a new title, they would be lucky if this one stayed (I'm being over dramatic).

Soooooooooooooo frustrating . . . but, ultimately true.

You might be a little over dramatic, as DC will never stop publishing Wonder Woman comics, out of obligation, as she's hovered around cancellation numbers in the past and never seen the Axe, just a relaunch.

@drgnx said:

Reading wonder Woman is like reading Batwoman, it is a fresh change from the rest of the comics.

Batwoman doesn't have the history that Wonder Woman does so I can accept that title much more easily because the the character is almost as fresh as the title is.

@Press Oblivion said:

@drgnx said:

people think she should get a new title, they would be lucky if this one stayed (I'm being over dramatic).

Soooooooooooooo frustrating . . . but, ultimately true.

You might be a little over dramatic, as DC will never stop publishing Wonder Woman comics, out of obligation, as she's hovered around cancellation numbers in the past and never seen the Axe, just a relaunch.

Yeah, those were my thoughts exactly, I know they will never cancel her comics...nor should they.

F*ck knows, maybe cause Azzerrello is an arrogant pr*ck, with a clear superiority complex. Man would I hate to have a drink with that guy; he´s clearly talented, but also delusional.@Power_Guy:

@jphulk26: Watch the language or censor it please.

@Press Oblivion said:

Azzarello can pretty much do what ever he wants and he's said as much. I was in Azz's corner i the beginning but this story is taking way too long to see it's conclusion.

@SoA said:

its not a superhero book , but a demigod living in modern times , i am ok with this

What's a damn shame here is that Wonder Woman is a Superhero, what she's doing in a non-superho book may be the problem at hand and the reason that there is such a deep divide with fans about the title.

Not only is there a lack of the superhero theme, that I like to see, but the level of decompression of this story is almost obscene and a lot of this could have been handled in far fewer issues than we've been given. Because there is no end in sight, I have been pleading with Wonder Woman fans to get in touch with DC Comics to start another Wonder Woman title so we can see more of the superhero and leave Azzarello to wonder off into his abyssal labyrinth of gods and snore fest-ian drama. No more Zola, no more extended family, no more issues where nothing happens, no more marginalizing of Diana's character to develop peripheral needless nonsense, let's get back to the superhero and answer some questions that this whole N52 era has left festering.

Then 1987 reboot saw Cheetah within the first 10 issues and Circe within the first 20 issues in the interim of GODS & Monsters. This is the kind of pace that I feel this latest incarnation of the title could have benefited from, the Wonder Woman title does not have that balance.

You make some really good points here. Yes, the Olympians should be involved in Wonder Woman's book to some degree but not overtake it to the point that she comes across as their supporting character while her other supporting characters and rogues gallery are MIA in her book. The book is way off balance.

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Power_Guy: Also, Medusa was in Batwoman, but so was Wonder Woman.

I don't know if she counts as one of her major villains, but it seems that she was in eleven issues of Wonder Woman.

Thought I should mention that in case it's relevant.

Thank you for reminding me. That make one more.

They should publish Sensation Comics to root Wonder Woman into the DCnU while Azzarello keeps doing his own thing

@Power_Guy: Hey Power Guy let me know if you organise anything, I´ll join writing a letter to DC about this title. What I hate about it is just before the two last reboots WW was finally getting on her feet, between Rucka and Simone, there was so much to work with. I mean Simones run wasn´t perfect, but as I said the two writers just left so much great stuff for future writers to pick up and develop. All that is going to be left in the dust if something isn´t done soon.

As for fans of Azz´s run, I really think they shouldn´t be left hanging like us old school fans have, they don´t deserve it as much as we don´t. This Azz run and story, if people are really invested in it, should continue in its own separate universe, and give us back the Wonder Woman we know and love in her own title. I think we should also make sure WW Earth One is supported by as many old school fans as possible. I suspect that might swing things in our favor if the damn thing is ever released. Morrison did say he´d finished the book, I don´t want it to be yet another WW book kept on the shelf, I will be seriously pissed off if they do that.

@jphulk26 said:

@Power_Guy: Hey Power Guy let me know if you organise anything, I´ll join writing a letter to DC about this title. What I hate about it is just before the two last reboots WW was finally getting on her feet, between Rucka and Simone, there was so much to work with. I mean Simones run wasn´t perfect, but as I said the two writers just left so much great stuff for future writers to pick up and develop. All that is going to be left in the dust if something isn´t done soon.

As for fans of Azz´s run, I really think they shouldn´t be left hanging like us old school fans have, they don´t deserve it as much as we don´t. This Azz run and story, if people are really invested in it, should continue in its own separate universe, and give us back the Wonder Woman we know and love in her own title. I think we should also make sure WW Earth One is supported by as many old school fans as possible. I suspect that might swing things in our favor if the damn thing is ever released. Morrison did say he´d finished the book, I don´t want it to be yet another WW book kept on the shelf, I will be seriously pissed off if they do that.

I wrote a very honest letter to DC about 6 months ago regarding Azzarello's run and surprise, surprise, I didn't receive a response. I did not ask for Azzarello to be fired, just that DC start up a Wonder Woman book with a more straight-up superhero approach. Maybe we could start up a change.org petition for such a thing?

Ha Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman is one of the best things that's happened to the character. It's a fresh take on the character after that awful mess JMS left her in. Rucka and Simone's runs were good classic stories for the character but this has given us something unique. It's the first time I've wanted to buy Wonder Woman ongoing and I haven't been disappointed.

And really @Power_Guy: a petition to change Azzarello's run? Give me a massive break. It's one of the better runs on the character. Your poor arguments against it are negligable when the advantages are so much better. And petitions never work for the record on comic book terms

@Lvenger said:

Ha Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman is one of the best things that's happened to the character. It's a fresh take on the character after that awful mess JMS left her in. Rucka and Simone's runs were good classic stories for the character but this has given us something unique. It's the first time I've wanted to buy Wonder Woman ongoing and I haven't been disappointed.

And really @Power_Guy: a petition to change Azzarello's run? Give me a massive break. It's one of the better runs on the character. Your poor arguments against it are negligable when the advantages are so much better. And petitions never work for the record on comic book terms

What about this run is good? What about this run is an advantage?

Also - can and do you actually read? I specifically said that my petition was not to get Azzarello fired but to have DC start up a Wonder Woman book with a more straight-up superhero approach. That would be a 2nd solo Wonder Woman book so the Azz-affectionists would be undisturbed.

@Power_Guy said:

@Lvenger said:

Ha Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman is one of the best things that's happened to the character. It's a fresh take on the character after that awful mess JMS left her in. Rucka and Simone's runs were good classic stories for the character but this has given us something unique. It's the first time I've wanted to buy Wonder Woman ongoing and I haven't been disappointed.

And really @Power_Guy: a petition to change Azzarello's run? Give me a massive break. It's one of the better runs on the character. Your poor arguments against it are negligable when the advantages are so much better. And petitions never work for the record on comic book terms

What about this run is good? What about this run is an advantage?

Also - can and do you actually read? I specifically said that my petition was not to get Azzarello fired but to have DC start up a Wonder Woman book with a more straight-up superhero approach. That would be a 2nd solo Wonder Woman book so the Azz-affectionists would be undisturbed.

I'll answer your points as such

1. The pros of Azzarello's run includes the mix of horror and fantasy more reminiscent of original Greek mythology, the inclusion of the Greek Gods at the front and centre acting like the arrogant sods they are in the myth, the modern sensibilities in the personalities of the characters the fact Wonder Woman is more of a demi god (I'm partial to demi gods due to liking Hercules and the Percy Jackson book series), the build up between the disappearance of Zeus, Apollo taking the throne and Zeus' latest baby. the mystery of the First Born and the involvement of Orion and the New Gods in the story. Want any more because I think those are plenty of reasons to like the book and what Azarello has done with Wonder Woman's character.
2. Let's watch the insults shall we? I doubt we want to escalate things. Your second reason is flawed in that petitions only work in select circumstances, particularly quite grave ones which this is far from. Wonder Woman doesn't have enough appeal to hold a second book like Superman and Batman do and in all honesty, a superhero WW book would clash too much with what Azzarello is doing. I'd rather have this at the expense of Wonder Woman's superhero related title

@Lvenger: HAVE YOU READ GREEK MYTHOLOGY? Cause everyone and his mother into Azz´s run talk about how close it is to Greek Mythology as some pseudojustification; suddenly every azz fan is a classicist. Jesus I´m sure all you guys speak ancient greek, roman and Aramaic as well. I trully am seriously impressed by just how well read you Azz fans seem to be, all poets and scholars of the ancient world. The truth is I haven´t read much classical literature, but what I have is far more interesting than Azz´s run, its deep, penetrating into the human psyche, and, profound. I would not use any of those adjectives to describe Azz´s run.

@Power_Guy:

@jphulk26 said:

@Lvenger: HAVE YOU READ GREEK MYTHOLOGY? Cause everyone and his mother into Azz´s run talk about how close it is to Greek Mythology as some pseudojustification; suddenly every azz fan is a classicist. The truth is classical literature is far more interesting than Azz´s run, its deep, penetyrating into the human psyche, and, profound. I would not use any of those adjectives to describe Azz´s run.

@Power_Guy:

Yes I have and don't get nouty with me. I'm sick to the back teeth of you on this matter. The fact is you Azz haters have such weak reasons for not liking the title. It's fine if you don't want to buy it but to try this tactic is nonsensical because you have a negligible chance of actually getting this too work and Azz fans would oppose you on it disrupting what he is doing. If we get a current Wonder Woman title the writer would have to address the lack luster Superman/Wonder Woman relationship which is why I'm glad Azzarello's ignoring what's left of the continuity of the New 52. This way we get a good title without having to worry about when it takes place. Are you really going to want a title that doesn't fit with what DC are doing with Wonder Woman atm?

@Lvenger: OK, so WW isn´t dating Superman in Azzerrello´s run, wow, lets all bow down and praise to his glory. What a standup guy, he´s written a boring, egotistical, lackluster, waining, vapid, frustrating, illogical WW story, ruining her unique mythology, severing her from her supporting cast and villains, at a time when WW could have been shown to be just as cool and relevant as the rest of the Trinity, while having a great marketing push behind he; But hey she isn´t dating Superman so that´s ok. You´ve sold me, where do I buy my next copy? And you talk about us having weak arguments.

Let me ask one thing, if you were to recommend any of Azzerrello´s work Joker, on Superman, Lex Luthor, Before Watchmen, are you seriously telling me WW anywhere near his best work?

@Power_Guy:

@jphulk26 I know from experience that talking with you is fruitless so I'll bow out for now. Two last things. One you are not the sole authority on what makes WW so don't even attempt to act as such. Secondly I have my share of grievances with the new 52 but this petition of yours isn't going to make any difference. Remember the Young Justice petition?

@Lvenger: Cool I respect that, I´d rather not get heated about this either. Agree to diagree. X

@jphulk26: Glad we reached a respectable outcome

@Lvenger said:

@Power_Guy said:

@Lvenger said:

Ha Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman is one of the best things that's happened to the character. It's a fresh take on the character after that awful mess JMS left her in. Rucka and Simone's runs were good classic stories for the character but this has given us something unique. It's the first time I've wanted to buy Wonder Woman ongoing and I haven't been disappointed.

And really @Power_Guy: a petition to change Azzarello's run? Give me a massive break. It's one of the better runs on the character. Your poor arguments against it are negligable when the advantages are so much better. And petitions never work for the record on comic book terms

What about this run is good? What about this run is an advantage?

Also - can and do you actually read? I specifically said that my petition was not to get Azzarello fired but to have DC start up a Wonder Woman book with a more straight-up superhero approach. That would be a 2nd solo Wonder Woman book so the Azz-affectionists would be undisturbed.

I'll answer your points as such

1. The pros of Azzarello's run includes the mix of horror and fantasy more reminiscent of original Greek mythology, the inclusion of the Greek Gods at the front and centre acting like the arrogant sods they are in the myth, the modern sensibilities in the personalities of the characters the fact Wonder Woman is more of a demi god (I'm partial to demi gods due to liking Hercules and the Percy Jackson book series), the build up between the disappearance of Zeus, Apollo taking the throne and Zeus' latest baby. the mystery of the First Born and the involvement of Orion and the New Gods in the story. Want any more because I think those are plenty of reasons to like the book and what Azarello has done with Wonder Woman's character.
2. Let's watch the insults shall we? I doubt we want to escalate things. Your second reason is flawed in that petitions only work in select circumstances, particularly quite grave ones which this is far from. Wonder Woman doesn't have enough appeal to hold a second book like Superman and Batman do and in all honesty, a superhero WW book would clash too much with what Azzarello is doing. I'd rather have this at the expense of Wonder Woman's superhero related title

See, now I find your reasons for liking Azzarello's run to be weak. I see him as simply copying a lot from Greek myth and adding in the supporting character known as Wonder Woman. When Marston created Wonder Woman, he wanted some influences from Greek myth but he also wanted some things to be different such as the Amazons being shining examples of feminine accomplishment and achievement, not man-killing, baby-trading savages. What Azzarello has done to the Amazons is way too dark and perverse IMO. I also don't care for the fact that he's essentially made Diana a Hercules/Zena hybrid. At first, I didn't mind the change to her origin but after I realized how much it made her like so many other characters(i.e. Hercueles), it lost its luster very fast.

I also don't care for Chiang's redesigns for the Olympians. They look uninspired and cheap. Hermes has chicken feet, Strife looks like Britney Spears when she had shaved her head, Ares is now a clone of Azzarello himself, Poseidon looks like a cheap stuffed animal from Walmart, the new blind guy is a dead wringer for Wesley Mills, and Hades looks like someone smashed a birthday cake on his head.

You can say that a 2nd Wonder Woman book wouldn't sell but I strongly disagree. While Azzarello has his fans, there are just as many people that don't seem to care for his spin on Wonder Woman and have expressed interest in seeing a different approach to the character than what Azzarello is doing. I think people like you are concerned that if DC did start up such a book it would sell better and bleed fans off of Azzarello's book on to the new book, causing Azzarello's run to come to an end. While I don't like Azzarello's run, I don't care if it continues as long as I have an outlet to read stories about Wonder Woman that I actually look forward to and enjoy.

@Lvenger: me to, which makes it hard for what i´m about to say.

@Power_Guy: agreed.

I actually don't care if Azzarello's writing continues to be this good.

@Power_Guy said:

I also don't care for Chiang's redesigns for the Olympians. They look uninspired and cheap. Hermes has chicken feet, Strife looks like Britney Spears when she had shaved her head, Ares is now a clone of Azzarello himself, Poseidon looks like a cheap stuffed animal from Walmart, the new blind guy is a dead wringer for Wesley Mills, and Hades looks like someone smashed a birthday cake on his head.

I don't agree with all your post as I am willing to accept changes more than most, but I definitely agree with this. These designs are damn horrible! If there is one thing I have little tolerance for, it is bad character designs and while I like most of the DCnU costume/appearance changes/updates, these are not amongst them. I think these are some of the worst I've seen DCnU.

@SmashBrawler said:

@Power_Guy said:

@SmashBrawler said:

Here's an even better question: Why can't people (read: Most Pre-52 WW fans) stop complaining about this book? And while you're at it, get some new complaints, because this stuff gets old very fast.

So does a one-trick pony of mythology.

Uh-huh. A critically acclaimed one-trick pony.

A critically acclaimed one-trick pony with a gimp leg. From what I understand, while Aquaman is continuing to enjoy exceptional sells Wonder Woman is steadily dropping. Many long time Wonder Woman fans jump ship months ago & I am only tagging along because I love Cliff's art but DAYUM! Azz story is dragging on forever & it is really going nowhere for me.

@4_color_image: Wonder Woman's current run >>>>>>>> Aquaman's current run.

@SmashBrawler said:

@4_color_image: Wonder Woman's current run >>>>>>>> Aquaman's current run.

In January Aquaman was #22 while Wonder Woman was #51

wait wait wait.

Circe has appeared in the New 52?

@4_color_image said:

@SmashBrawler said:

@4_color_image: Wonder Woman's current run >>>>>>>> Aquaman's current run.

In January Aquaman was #22 while Wonder Woman was #51

1. Currently, Geoff Johns sells.
2. Currently, Wonder Woman doesn't.
3. Sales mean nothing.