Edited 10 months, 6 days ago

Poll: Support Cheetah Book In Villains Month (16 votes)

Going to purchase? 69%
Not Going To? 31%

If you want more of Wonder Woman´s villains to appear in her comic, support Cheetah in villains month. The book is out now.

#1 Posted by jphulk26 (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

By the way I just read it and it is excellent. Best Wonder Woman book I´ve read in a long while. This is the stuff that should be happening in her comic right now. Please take a look. I promise it´s great.

#2 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Great book. Enjoyed it.

If the Amazons are not immortal, then how old is Hippolyta?

Like the idea of the Amazon cult and good to see the Manhunter.

Worth it to see a story about WW in her own title sans a baby.

#3 Posted by jphulk26 (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

Great book. Enjoyed it.

If the Amazons are not immortal, then how old is Hippolyta?

Like the idea of the Amazon cult and good to see the Manhunter.

Worth it to see a story about WW in her own title sans a baby.

I can´t believe more people aren´t discussing this thread. This one small comic proves without a shadow of a a doubt that so much can be done with WW villains to make them fascinating. I always said Cheetah was a great villain. I still don´t like her as arch-villain, I like Ares more for that, but still I beg of you, if you are a wonder woman fan read this book.

#4 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, it's an issue of WW so of course I want to buy it, but I wasn't fond of the issue. I was under the impression that Minerva was an independent criminal in the new 52 who manipulated Diana and grabbed the wrong artifact, and making her a cult-raised wannabe amazon who worships "the hunt" just seemed too, I dunno, on the nose for a WW villain.

#5 Edited by Outside_85 (8124 posts) - - Show Bio

I am going to buy the book featuring the villain I am currently interested in, which is the First Born, mainly due to it being written by Azzarello and because hope, or expect it to not be a sudden break in his current story without purpose. The 0 issue gave us the whole workings behind Diana's and War's relationship and had it not been there, I think a lot of the impact of last issue would have been lost.

Plus, from what I've read on other boards, this wasn't really that great an issue. Some obviously think it's great, others 'meh' and some complain over how 'simplistic' the origins is.

If the Amazons are not immortal, then how old is Hippolyta?

Like the idea of the Amazon cult and good to see the Manhunter.

Hippolyta is quite old since she appeared in Demon Knights, which at the was taking place 800-1000 years ago.Also there might be some translation issues as to what one means by immortal, Vandal Savage, Ressurection Man and Mordru are examples of the kind of immortals that can't die, and by Hermes' admission the Olympians are immortals that can die, but not of old age and in the case of Zeus only under specific circumstances. So when Barbara says she thinks the Amazons are immortal, Diana might think she means Amazons can't die. But all that said, we don't know if Hippolyta is the only Amazon that's eternally youthful or not.

I have to ask, but does this Cult of Hippolyta have any legitimate ties to the Amazons or is it all just based on belief?

#6 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1192 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: actually thought cheetah was her bane or zod type of villian you know a great fighter and very tactical in battle

#7 Edited by Quintus_Knightfall (84520 posts) - - Show Bio

I have it but have yet to crack it open. Sounds like I'm missing out

Moderator
#8 Edited by jphulk26 (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

@darknightspideyfanboy said:

@jphulk26: actually thought cheetah was her bane or zod type of villian you know a great fighter and very tactical in battle

Exactly. Also its not her fault because people don´t give her a chance, but theirs a certain stigma around her of her being silly, because no one reads the story and lets face it, if you read a wikipedia article on her she sounds pretty silly. if you want a superhero to be taken seriously you can´t have a human Cheetah as her main villian. I´ve loved her since reading Rucka, then I read Perrez and liked her more, but lets face it if Killer Croc was Batmans main villain or archnemisis people would find that silly or if say Parasite or Killer Frost were Supermans. Its just not cool.

The way I see it if it were my decision, which of course it isn´t, I would work wonder womans villains like this and I´ll give analogies to Batman and Supes villains.

Batman Superman Wonder Woman

Joker Lex Luthor Alkyone Primary archvillain

Ras Al Ghul Braniac Ares Serious threat Archvillain Intellectual and physical

Bane Doomsday Genocide Mainly physical Threat villain

Killer Croc Killer Frost Cheetah Element or animal informed villain

Now there are others who fit into each type of catergory, for instance Riddler, or, Vennesa Cale, could be put in the first catergory. And Circe and Darkseid can be put in the second. But the point is that is the level villain Cheetah should be in. Just because Ares, Alkyone are much better poster childs for wonder womans rogues gallery.

#9 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always liked Cheetah. At root of it, most comic book characters are silly by nature. We enjoy them all through suspension of belief and accepting the parameters of the story context.

Cheetah is antithesis to WW by her jealousy, spite, ruthlessness, bitchiness, and need to be a bad ass. Today... the new 52 WW has taken on some of those qualities herself.

#10 Posted by BR_Havoc (1270 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Cheetah but so far every villains month title I have read has just been a disappointment. So I do not really know if I will buy it.

#11 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (4552 posts) - - Show Bio

lol. eh it's gonna be hard. A lot of people are disappointed at Villains month,

#12 Posted by TheFirstLantern (1481 posts) - - Show Bio

Got good scores from here and IGN have yet to read it. Can't wait though.

#13 Posted by jphulk26 (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc: I was pissed at The Riddler, but The Cheetah is really good. I don´t know why people are saying different. I wish Ares was in villains month, but Azz screwed that up. :(

#14 Posted by Outside_85 (8124 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@darknightspideyfanboy said:

@jphulk26: actually thought cheetah was her bane or zod type of villian you know a great fighter and very tactical in battle

Exactly. Also its not her fault because people don´t give her a chance, but theirs a certain stigma around her of her being silly, because no one reads the story and lets face it, if you read a wikipedia article on her she sounds pretty silly. if you want a superhero to be taken seriously you can´t have a human Cheetah as her main villian. I´ve loved her since reading Rucka, then I read Perrez and liked her more, but lets face it if Killer Croc was Batmans main villain or archnemisis people would find that silly or if say Parasite or Killer Frost were Supermans. Its just not cool.

The problem with Cheetah is primarily the writers or just DC that wants to maintain her image as this completely feral character, while at the same time slowly but relentlessly beefing up their heroic characters in terms of power. Cheetah seemed like a proper threat under Perez, but then later on Diana matches the speed of the Flash and pulls 1/3 of the planet while Cheetah is virtually never given comparable feats.

Also you have the genuine problem that when two characters who are near-equal physically, the one who has tactics, training and skills is always going to come out on top when faces with someone who just going bonkers. And Diana happens to be one of the greatest tactical fighters on the planet, so much in fact that she's the one Batman runs to if he can only pick one ally against a horde of supervillains.

I could see the problem technically solved, if Cheetah was established to be much faster than Diana. So when Diana has to engage her, she has to take precautions much like a big game hunter has to if he wants to shoot a lion aka not someone you deal with on a whim and a nearby branch.

Side note: I don't know why Marston named her as he did back in the day, but I have a hard time buying into the menace of someone called 'the Cheetah'. Mainly because I tend to think of the symbolism of the name, if you want to use it for symbolizing the ferocity and power of the big cats... Why pick the smallest one that many rulers kept as pets, one that runs away if seriously challenged and is really best known for running really fast? I know it's too late now and DC has sorta accommodated Cheetah by giving her the speed of her names take, but why not The Lioness or Leopard to begin with?

#15 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_titan_lord:

I think it's a reflection of the integrity of new 52 and DC's lack of commitment to quality.

#16 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

That issue was "eh". Wouldn't have gotten if I wasn't reviewing all the Villain Month issues. :/

#17 Edited by BR_Havoc (1270 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: Honestly I do not get the whole hate at Azz for Ares it looks like the first born will be the new god of war. He is closer to the pre flashpoint Ares.

I might check out Cheetah but so far I have read about 10 villains month books and I have not enjoyed a single issue.

#18 Posted by jphulk26 (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc said:

@jphulk26: Honestly I do not get the whole hate at Azz for Ares it looks like the first born will be the new god of war. He is closer to the pre flashpoint Ares.

I might check out Cheetah but so far I have read about 10 villains month books and I have not enjoyed a single issue. Also if Azz thinks he´s improving things by making a Wonder Woman villain called the First Born, like what? Ares was a cool WW rogue, why change one of her best, then make one exactly the same and call him First Born. Thats one of the worst villain names I´ve ever heard. Worst than Cheetah, worst than Dr. Psycho, worst than literally anything. I think maybe he should try another name before that sticks, because from the perspective of someone who doesn´t read the comic or someone who doesn´t read wonder woman, you tell them hey "Wonder Womans archnemisis is called The First Born you should really read this book, he´s cool." They´ll look at you like your nuts. I think Ares is much cooler a name.

I think alot have been bad, so my expectations were lowered with Cheetah, but I was pleasantly surprised. Wish it would have been Ares though. Or even better both.

@jphulk26 said:

@darknightspideyfanboy said:

@jphulk26: actually thought cheetah was her bane or zod type of villian you know a great fighter and very tactical in battle

Exactly. Also its not her fault because people don´t give her a chance, but theirs a certain stigma around her of her being silly, because no one reads the story and lets face it, if you read a wikipedia article on her she sounds pretty silly. if you want a superhero to be taken seriously you can´t have a human Cheetah as her main villian. I´ve loved her since reading Rucka, then I read Perrez and liked her more, but lets face it if Killer Croc was Batmans main villain or archnemisis people would find that silly or if say Parasite or Killer Frost were Supermans. Its just not cool.

The problem with Cheetah is primarily the writers or just DC that wants to maintain her image as this completely feral character, while at the same time slowly but relentlessly beefing up their heroic characters in terms of power. Cheetah seemed like a proper threat under Perez, but then later on Diana matches the speed of the Flash and pulls 1/3 of the planet while Cheetah is virtually never given comparable feats.

Also you have the genuine problem that when two characters who are near-equal physically, the one who has tactics, training and skills is always going to come out on top when faces with someone who just going bonkers. And Diana happens to be one of the greatest tactical fighters on the planet, so much in fact that she's the one Batman runs to if he can only pick one ally against a horde of supervillains.

I could see the problem technically solved, if Cheetah was established to be much faster than Diana. So when Diana has to engage her, she has to take precautions much like a big game hunter has to if he wants to shoot a lion aka not someone you deal with on a whim and a nearby branch.

Side note: I don't know why Marston named her as he did back in the day, but I have a hard time buying into the menace of someone called 'the Cheetah'. Mainly because I tend to think of the symbolism of the name, if you want to use it for symbolizing the ferocity and power of the big cats... Why pick the smallest one that many rulers kept as pets, one that runs away if seriously challenged and is really best known for running really fast? I know it's too late now and DC has sorta accommodated Cheetah by giving her the speed of her names take, but why not The Lioness or Leopard to begin with?

I still don´t think she´s a good poster child as a villain. I´m not claiming she´s a bad villain. I said I actually dig her, but she can´t be put front and centre. Ares needs to be, or Alkyone and the Circle. Ass I said of all wonder woman´s villains they just sound by far the coolest. Like if I was to try and get someone in to wonder woman and they said well who are her enemies, I´d be like Ares God Of war and Alkyone some psychotic superpowered Amazonian General whose more tactical and an even better fighter than Wonder Woman. Very easy to understand, their names don´t sound silly. I also think they just scratched the surface with how dark and evil Alkyone could get.

#19 Edited by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (719 posts) - - Show Bio

My lcs is 15 minutes away, it closes at 9 and I left the house at 8:52 to pick up Cheetah. Miraculously I made it there in time, after much aggressive driving, but they were sold out. :(

#20 Posted by Outside_85 (8124 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

I still don´t think she´s a good poster child as a villain. I´m not claiming she´s a bad villain. I said I actually dig her, but she can´t be put front and centre. Ares needs to be, or Alkyone and the Circle. Ass I said of all wonder woman´s villains they just sound by far the coolest. Like if I was to try and get someone in to wonder woman and they said well who are her enemies, I´d be like Ares God Of war and Alkyone some psychotic superpowered Amazonian General whose more tactical and an even better fighter than Wonder Woman. Very easy to understand, their names don´t sound silly. I also think they just scratched the surface with how dark and evil Alkyone could get.

I agree with you on the first line, and I think she's actually part of the problem Wonder Woman also suffers under. If DC doesn't respect her villains (as in letting Batman floor Cheetah), how can they respect Diana?

Personally though, I dont think Alkyone is a villain for the ages, she didn't last long enough and her motivations were... not that well founded. Driven by prophecy/belief is decent, but at some point Alkyone was bound to realize that Diana isn't the monster she thought she would be. Circe and Ares I agree on however.

Diana's antithesis however I have to say is going to be the First Born, because Azzarello has taken the time to actually make him into Diana's physical and moral opposite.

"Spoiled, entitled, selfish! You are everything that I am not!"

"I love everyone." Diana to Hades. / "I hate everything!" The First Born to Hera.

#21 Posted by SCORPIO_CASSADINE (719 posts) - - Show Bio

"I hate everything!" Ooooo, that's a deep motivation...

#22 Edited by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Cheetah's name isn't cool or threatening enough? Like Robin or Green Hornet or Riddler or Bizarro. Oh well, not sure how Cheetah has survived this many decades and seen screen time since the 70s. Guess Cheetah will have to just make due.

Cheetah's aren't threatening... How many of you have taken on a real Cheetah in the wild?

First Born is well developed? Please anyone point out the many dimensions I am not seeing in this character. How does First Born rival Magneto, Luther, Joker, et al. And the name First Born is modern genius in what way? When you tell someone WW's big adversary is First Born and she is holding and protecting a baby while fighting First Born, maybe you could get the chance to explain First Born's bad ass status after the listener stops laughing at the absurdity of it all.

Beware: First Born... I'm all afeared.