SM/WW 15 discussion.

I enjoyed it, but let me hear your complaints, since you guys are you guys.

4/5 for me; I knew Tomasi would make me like this comic.

That's it, Wonder Woman's portrayed really well in smww indeed. I've only got complaints because I'm such a whingy little sh*t. I will plead the fifth on this one since I didn't like anything, again, because I'm "remarkably difficult to please", not that Wonder Woman is an uncompassionate, blathering, swollen headed fool that I find so incredibly difficult to like.

@foamborn: I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

Bad jokes aside I'm pretty sure she hated it

I thought it was pretty good.

The good: I liked the art, i liked that WW was clearly the focus for once, I liked that she had a good fight with Magog and saved SM.

The bad: Tomasi is still playing at this opposites game with the two of them. Both characterizatios are weak IMO as he's trying so hard to show WW and tough and SM as protective ... All he's doing is giving us two rather predictable characters.

The uguy: SM t be honest. The whole set up is showing Clark as this compassionate hero who cares all while teaching the barbarian WW how to have a heart. Worse is that SM just comes across as a whiney sap. WW actually seems focussed and intelligent at times, realizing that maybe if she takes down the bad guy civilians stop getting killed, but SM is so preoccupied with not letting anyone get hurt that he's totally ineffective!

Enjoyable but not as good as SOule.

@csg_cl: you know what's funny? Foam had this idea for how the Justice League should operate, but yet she hates this.

yeah, well ...

Dropping it. The art is good but the story is pretty bad.

I didn't enjoy it and at the end of the day thats what matters.

?? I dislike her personality though at least she doesn't come across as vacant like Soule's Wonder Woman used to (imo) so big points for that, she's arguably sharp and full of initiative in this incarnation. I just think she's horribly self-aggrandizing too, without palpable results to back it up which makes Wonder Woman look a tad deluded, especially when standing next to her vastly superior boyfriend. We agreed that Wonder Woman is exceptionally skilled, those skills are nowhere to be seen

Yeah well, he was wrong, and so were you. You presume too much

I presumed nothing ... in fact I avoided the conversation altogether ... so continue on your way and be a good girl and pretend I don't exist as the mods have asked us both to do. Your next comment to me will be flagged and sent to the mods.

With pleasure

LOL ... where is the "like" button :)

Exactly. I felt that Soule understood Diana and actually liked her. That's a vibe totally missing from Tomasi's run and the art is nowhere near as good as Tony S. Daniel's.

At times this issue seemed down right...disrespectful. Supes and Wondy are both unconscious, but she's the one getting drug around by her hair and getting her face stepped on, it was rude. Then Supes get's the better image of striking Magog, he puts him down while she distracts him. I just didn't like it.

Circe's beastomorphs looked cooler, but I'm not a fan of her braids or red hair.

What also strikes me as odd is how they don't seem to have their s**t together when they fight. They should fight as a team or if Diana calls the shots Superman should by used to it. Also, what happened to the flashback part in Tomasi's first issue? Is he not gonna explain anything? I thought he was gonna flesh out how they met first, but he hasn't touched upon that in the last two issues.

Yeah Wounded-Superman did the beating, the rescuing and a lot less talking than Wonder Woman

This was a good issue and I have no problem with characterization....but I am sick of the freaking magic weakness crap.

It was awesome

I just love this series

Tomasi did fine, thumbs up ^^

I like it

@sog7dc: No offense but you might need a slight priority readjustment here. Considering that Wonder Woman acts like a mad bull focusing only on battling the enemy rather than saving the innocents whereas Superman is the bleeding heart is a completely reductionist method of writing these two characters. I expected better from Tomasi but he's not doing a much better job than Soule. Characterisation is far more important than your own personal gripes and the characterisation was rubbish here.

Besides the magic weakness isn't a bad thing at all. Superman needs to have weaknesses I'm afraid. Given that he can survive nukes and planet busting attacks, there needs to be ways of hurting him. And magic works within those parameters because it's outside the realm of normal physics and energy, thus making it effective on Superman. It makes comic book logic sense which is all the writers care about and has created plenty of compelling stories which put Superman in genuine danger.

I actually like the new magog origin though. I shall miss circe's purple hair, but i do like the new design i hope she is still as enjoyable was she was. I shall always miss tony daniel's art though but it was a solid issue.

It isnt innovative or brilliant by any means but I don't have an issue with the warrior in the couple being concerned with battle while the guy who is traditionally known for being the selfess hero takes care of the rescue. Diana was right, she is the god of war and Clark is better at rescue and better at connecting with people Superman. Now dont get me wrong, I'm not saying they should have concrete roles as fighter and protector but in this case I doon't have any glaring issues. Honestly, Diana sums things up well in this page:

Diana asserts that she wants Clark to trust her while she tries to eliminate the threat and she'll trust him to protect the innocents. I have no issue with that. Taking into account that Clark is weak to magic and is still bleeding from a wound Magog inflicted upon him so Clark is obviously better suited to damage control than to battle with someone who has the tools to really harm him. Diana is much better suited to battle Magog than Clark given she's more skilled and more durable against magical foes.

He absolutely needs a weakness, everyone does, the way it's handled, though, is different than how I handle it.

Recent issue #15 was pretty action packed. Tomasi just might be getting the hang of dealing with WW/SM characteristics to come up with a decent plot. At some point he is probably going to do his version of the two heroes maturing into better versions of themselves. Right now he just needs to notice that he is making them too stereotype. Actually they remind me of the old 52 too much.

Great issue, I'm really enjoying this run.

I don't understand your logic on this. He stepped on her face, and it was rude? The Villain, was rude.

Magog....was being rude.

How is she the one that got the worst end, when Superman was the one who got stabbed? If you had the choice of getting stabbed or getting your face stepped on, who's gonna be insane enough to say "I'd rather get stabbed please." Are you upset by this because she's a woman? Should the woman be treated with more respect, while the man takes the pounding, because the woman can't toughen through being assaulted?

Also Superman punching somebody should always get the bigger panel. Because it's awesome.

@sog7dc: Just curious how would you handle the magic weakness?

vulnurability and not a weakness. Superman is already vulnerable to blunt force trauma so imagine it that way. Magic can hurt him but it takes a great deal of it to do so.

I think I would be better with this if we were at the very beginning of their relationship ... Tomasi is putting this concept in front of us after 2 years of a rather harmonious relationship. Suddenly we're seeing that they don't understand how to fight as a team? It's just a little late in the game for this type of exploration. Soule could have done this in the early stages and probably would have been more interesting, but two years later it's a head scratcher to me. Not to mention they were JL team members for five years before they even started dating. I agree with @lvenger on this being reductionist.

@sog7dc: Oh I see what you mean, their a difference between vulnurability and weakness. How would you handle Superman's vurnability to magic in comics?

@lxlgiftedlxl: Yeah thats how I would handle it. as a vulnurability.

@sog7dc: I sounds pretty good idea. My bad for not catching on, I though you ment it like Superman was always had a vulnurability to magic.

It was managed as a vulnerability ... it's not like SM started losing his power as soon as magic was in the vicinity (Kryptonite is a weakness). he was hit with a powerful magical attack and was injured by it. This made absolute sense to me as magic has been a long standing problem for SM.

So is Superman /Wonder woman Ok? I dropped it when Doomed started in the Soule era...but I like Tomasi's stuff usually...

@bezza: doomed was total trash ... As for Tomasi, I think most folks are luke warm about it as this point. His first issue was horrid and characterized Diana as a shrew and SM as a boyscout. It's gotten somewhat better since, but IMO he's still not really doing a great job with either character. But there is a lot of action so if that's something you enjoy you may like it. I'm not a huge fan, but I dont HATE it either.

@sog7dc: But that's what magic is to Superman already mate. Superman doesn't have any special defenses against it and has tanked magical attacks in the past but most magic can affect him. I liked how Busiek explained it in Camelot Falls, that was a very good use of magic against Superman.

@csg_cl: True. Let's just hope he sees that and works on a way to bring some harmony back into the relationship so it does not resemble batman/bruce relationships so much.

Superman was annoying in this issue.

Wonder Woman as the better warrior and tactician made plans and issued orders and Superman kept b!tchi*g and complaining.

@mightus: seriously. These are two characters who are all about love so it's a bit jarring to see them bicker and snipe at each other. They were quiet sweet for a while there, now they are both super b$tchy and feel like they are set in stone. Hopefully Tomasi will show a side of them that makes me think "wow, that's a reasonably healthy relationship" or at least have a basic understanding of why they are even dating since right now they don't really seem to even like each other.

I have no issues with this issue. (heh)

Funny you would say that since this is how a Batman/Wonder Woman romance would be like with them arguing quite a bit.

@darkman61288: lol if you think dc would allow wonder woman to argue against batgod, good one XD

and by the way how did that poll go hmm?

16 people voted so far. Not all a lot, 10 voted that it depends on the angle, 4 voted it traditional, and 2 voted any new angle.

@darkman61288: with the ones who commented saying maybe but shooting down your idea and then suggesting the same old same old with a not so new twist, why am i not surprised only 2 people voted for an entirely new angle.

Yes. Now what?

@scorpio_cassadine: Cough Cough *sexist* Cough