Edited 1 year, 30 days ago

Poll: Is Wonder Woman a feminist in your view? (38 votes)

Yes 53%
No 42%

On occasions they sure as hell make her look like one then again she doesn't act like one all the time.

#1 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

#2 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

#3 Posted by dmessmer (365 posts) - - Show Bio

I've made my thoughts on this abundantly clear in so many other threads that I'm just going to vote and walk away from this one.

#4 Edited by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

When you ask this question the only way to get in a meaningful debate is to clarify what you mean by it. What do you mean by Feminist? Because most of the time when I get into a debate on this subject people either veer between "man-hating" or "fighting for female rights and equality" as their definition of a feminist character.

I think on the other hand there´s much more to it. A feminist character in literary terms is much more about breaking free of male-defined gender roles and stereotypes and the exploration of themes found in literature pertaining to feminist thought. That doesn´t mean that WW has to advocate all those ideas as long as her story explores it.

Example:

She breaks free of male-defined gender roles in that she is a female superhero, who is one of the most powerful in her universe, but retains her femininity, while doing so. In fact her femininity distinguishes her and in some ways makes her a better superhero. She´s original, her own woman, not just a female version of Superman or Batman like Supergirl or Batgirl etc.

Her story explores themes found in feminist literature, yes the Amazons are females cut off from male society who create a utopia. Many feminist have thought that war, the money system and other systems of exploitation are a direct result of a Patriachal society and if more women were put in positions of power such wars would be minimized. However in recent years feminist thinkers have challenged this, suggesting that that notion of women being peaceful, less assertive and aggressive is not true and that we mustn´t define a woman´s nature, as women are manifold in nature. In other words saying women are more peaceful in nature than men is just as sexist to women as it is to men. Again then we can see how the Amazons as warriors but also a flawed yet Utopian society reflect both side of this debate.

Other characters like Jane Eyre, Buffy, Clarice Starling or Batwoman equally explore themes that can be found in Feminist literature: This does not mean that they "hate men" or constantly are banging on about female equality and exploitation, it simply means that within the confines of their story various connections can be made with ideas found in feminist theory. Thats it. No more, no less.

@dmessmer said:

I've made my thoughts on this abundantly clear in so many other threads that I'm just going to vote and walk away from this one.

1. Feminism is not against men.

2. Yes WW is a feminist, but she´s also a humanist. She is a feminist character in so far as her story has many feminist themes that are explored with in it. The same as Steve Trevor being a feminist character insofar as he turns on its head the time honored tradition of a female damsel in distress. WW doesn´t have to go around saying "women are equal, male society sucks" to be a feminist. Her story is a philosophical, political and yes feminist story. In the same way that Batmans fits into the genre of noir, or Superman has mythical elements to his story, both which make their stories richer for it. WW´s story is to some extent when written well a social critique and a critique of the comicbook genre and an exploration and subversion of womens position within that genre. Also critique doesn´t mean its bad, by critique is meant to deconstruct to search for the underlying meanings and messages transmitted by the genre. I just think people, including writers think too simplistically about what makes WW a feminist. Even some feminists think to simply about it, thats why so many men get offended, and male writers don´t get her. People need to look at the Lynda Carter show, or Perrez´s run, or Malton Marston´s run, there you will see the themes of feminist thought dealt with in a mature transcendent way.

#5 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

When you ask this question the only way to get in a meaningful debate is to clarify what you mean by it. What do you mean by Feminist? Because most of the time when I get into a debate on this subject people either veer between "man-hating" or "fighting for female rights and equality" as their definition of a feminist character.

I think on the other hand there´s much more to it. A feminist character in literary terms is much more about breaking free of male-defined gender roles and stereotypes and the exploration of themes found in literature pertaining to feminist thought. That doesn´t mean that WW has to advocate all those ideas as long as her story explores it.

Example:

She breaks free of male-defined gender roles in that she is a female superhero, who is one of the most powerful in her universe, but retains her femininity, while doing so. In fact her femininity distinguishes her and in some ways makes her a better superhero. She´s original, her own woman, not just a female version of Superman or Batman like Supergirl or Batgirl etc.

Her story explores themes found in feminist literature, yes the Amazons are females cut off from male society who create a utopia. Many feminist have thought that war, the money system and other systems of exploitation are a direct result of a Patriachal society and if more women were put in positions of power such wars would be minimized. However in recent years feminist thinkers have challenged this, suggesting that that notion of women being peaceful, less assertive and aggressive is not true and that we mustn´t define a woman´s nature, as women are manifold in nature. In other words saying women are more peaceful in nature than men is just as sexist to women as it is to men. Again then we can see how the Amazons as warriors but also a flawed yet Utopian society reflect both side of this debate.

Other characters like Jane Eyre, Buffy, Clarice Starling or Batwoman equally explore themes that can be found in Feminist literature: This does not mean that they "hate men" or constantly are banging on about female equality and exploitation, it simply means that within the confines of their story various connections can be made with ideas found in feminist theory. Thats it. No more, no less.

@dmessmer said:

I've made my thoughts on this abundantly clear in so many other threads that I'm just going to vote and walk away from this one.

1. Feminism is not against men.

2. Yes WW is a feminist, but she´s also a humanist. She is a feminist character in so far as her story has many feminist themes that are explored with in it. The same as Steve Trevor being a feminist character insofar as he turns on its head the time honored tradition of a female damsel in distress. WW doesn´t have to go around saying "women are equal, male society sucks" to be a feminist. Her story is a philosophical, political and yes feminist story. In the same way that Batmans fits into the genre of noir, or Superman has mythical elements to his story, both which make their stories richer for it. WW´s story is to some extent when written well a social critique and a critique of the comicbook genre and an exploration and subversion of womens position within that genre. Also critique doesn´t mean its bad, by critique is meant to deconstruct to search for the underlying meanings and messages transmitted by the genre. I just think people, including writers think too simplistically about what makes WW a feminist. Even some feminists think to simply about it, thats why so many men get offended, and male writers don´t get her. People need to look at the Lynda Carter show, or Perrez´s run, or Malton Marston´s run, there you will see the themes of feminist thought dealt with in a mature transcendent way.

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy:

no, she is not. see this guys post.

No she is not what? All I did was post a picture where Diana says she loves everybody.

#7 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1266 posts) - - Show Bio

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy: lol i fell bad for u your getting attack by both side lol for putting a picture of wonder woman love everyone lol bahahaha

#9 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2243 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy: i answered the OP that she isnt a feminist and that you are right in your post. sorry for being stingy with the postings.

#11 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy: lol i fell bad for u your getting attack by both side lol for putting a picture of wonder woman love everyone lol bahahaha

lol i was not attacking him? I agree, she loves everyone, but that does not mean she isn´t a feminist, it just means she´s a feminist who loves everyone. i wish somebody who is saying she isn´t feminist would actually address what I wrote. But anyway.

#12 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@darknightspideyfanboy said:

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy: lol i fell bad for u your getting attack by both side lol for putting a picture of wonder woman love everyone lol bahahaha

lol i was not attacking him? I agree, she loves everyone, but that does not mean she isn´t a feminist, it just means she´s a feminist who loves everyone. i wish somebody who is saying she isn´t feminist would actually address what I wrote. But anyway.

I never said she wasn't a feminist.

#13 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

@darknightspideyfanboy said:

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy: lol i fell bad for u your getting attack by both side lol for putting a picture of wonder woman love everyone lol bahahaha

lol i was not attacking him? I agree, she loves everyone, but that does not mean she isn´t a feminist, it just means she´s a feminist who loves everyone. i wish somebody who is saying she isn´t feminist would actually address what I wrote. But anyway.

I never said she wasn't a feminist.

I didn´t say you were. It was a general statement. By the way I agree MMH is much much better than Cyborg. I felt he was a much better representative of diversity than Cyborg if that was what they were going for. Forgodsake he was a green black man. Thats way interracial. :)

#14 Edited by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

HUH?

Is Cyborg a Technologist?

#15 Edited by darknightspideyfanboy (1266 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: @jphulk26: now even more funny cause something tell me you guys forgot to put the picture when you try to say you agree with him

#16 Edited by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on how you define feminism, if you mean man hating woman who thinks literally everything any man does is sexist (I know this isn't what all feminists are like but this kind does exist.) Then no. If you mean an empowered woman who sees men and women as equals then yes.

#17 Posted by Jayc1324 (12296 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. Especially in the injustice game.

#18 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, from what I know her creator was a feminist and and many of her best and longest writers identify as feminists, so chances are that they have the more grounded and kind view of the idea of feminism, which isn't anti male like many other people believe. If you think people should be treated equally no matter the gender = feminist. In this sense it would be hard to find super hero characters that aren't feminist. Even Punisher who treats female criminals as brutally as male characters would be a feminist. Many people like to look at the worst examples of anything, a feminist in that sense, no, but then no one would be anything if we used the most cartoonish definitions of terms.

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#19 Posted by toplel (917 posts) - - Show Bio

Id say she is an equalist.

#20 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

@toplel: what on gods green earth is an equalist? you mean a liberal?

#21 Edited by toplel (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: More or less, yes. Liberalism is a political philosophy, so to remove the political implications, I simply said an equalist. She wouldn't favor a woman over a man. I know calling her a feminist doesn't imply she'd favor a woman, but just wanted to make it clear she isn't biased.

#22 Edited by CheeseSticks (2479 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course she is.

#23 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@cheesesticks said:

Of course she is.

Indeed. I can't think of a member of the big seven Justice League who I wouldn't call feminist.

#24 Posted by GWHH (576 posts) - - Show Bio

Not as she was written at the start of the series. She was written to show the positive difference between men and women.