If you wrote the WW comic, who strong would you make her?

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Bezza

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...We all have different opinions of New 52 Wonder Woman's strength levels. Her strength does seem to vary, depending on who is writing the comic, in some JL stories she has at times seemed powerful, whereas in her own comic where she doesn't seem very powerful at all and then in Superman/WW comic where she is somewhere in between perhaps. Anyway I am going to come right out and say that she is supposed to be as strong as Hercules and the Marvel Herc is physically Hulk level and Thor level, so that's where she would be. If I wrote it she would definitely be able to fight Superman and not be outclassed physically like she is now. What about you?

PW in particular, you are famed for your posts slating Wonder Woman's strength level so how strong would you make her?

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Fallschirmjager

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putting limits or numbers on powers is boring.

heroes should be as strong as they need to be to save the day. they should rise to the occasion and overcome adversity. its literally what being a hero/heroine is.

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Outside_85

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If I had a run on WW, I think I would save any huge feat of strength for last. Like solving the problem of the First Born by either throwing or punching him out of Earth's orbit, or having her throw a mountain on top of him. The way I would explain this seemingly huge burst, would be to provide somekind of catalyst for Diana to really cut loose, like FB harming Zola (you can always say the baby protected them afterwards for the happy ending).

I have to say I like this question since I recently wrote a bit of fanfiction featuring the JLU WW, where I had her match (if not eclipse) the blow Superman gave Darkseid in the last episode, just because I felt Diana needed to have that kind of feat aswell... since the show cheated us out of one :S

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Bruxae

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#4  Edited By Bruxae

I might be biased both as a woman and a huge WW fan but I feel like she should be atleast as strong as Superman on a normal day, not a sun dipped one though. Her durability would be below his, but her combat skill would be superior.

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deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

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As strong as base Superman.

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darkbeam

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#6  Edited By darkbeam

@bruxae said:

I might be biased both as a woman and a huge WW fan but I feel like she should be atleast as strong as Superman on a normal day, not a sun dipped one though. Her durability would be below his, but her combat skill would be superior.

This.

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darknightspideyfanboy

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@darkbeam said:

@bruxae said:

I might be biased both as a woman and a huge WW fan but I feel like she should be atleast as strong as Superman on a normal day, not a sun dipped one though. Her durability would be below his, but her combat skill would be superior.

This.

agree

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PowerWoman

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IF you ask me that question

Will,wonder woman should be let her completely different than before ANY age,she would be really powerful and like a GODDESS

Hope that help you

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PowerWoman

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More direct,if I wrote wonder woman comic,i would be give her more formidable challenge and more powerful enemies,not like DBZ,but her enemies would be as powerful as Galactus,she not only save earth,but all the Multiverse,If wonder woman have "doomsday" enemies, The Ultimate battle would be fierce,terrible, planets,stars,galaxies get shatter,Final,wonder woman beat Ultimate Enemy,she save entire universe

Wonder woman would be TRUE powerful,a real goddess not like this one

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Saren

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She can lift large rocks and sometimes a full truck.

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TDK_1997

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#11  Edited By TDK_1997

I like a strong Wonder Woman but I would prefer to make her more grounded.I don't mean being a small superhuman but not almost on Superman's level.

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Strongarm

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I'd replace powerlevel with competence and capability

as in she gets sh-t done, when they have problems she solves 87% of them

with smarts and skill

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Bezza

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...Why cant she be as strong as Superman, she is the DC version of Thor in many ways and Thor is as strong as superman and has a hammer and has his lightning, no-one complains that he is over-powered, but people want WW to be weaker..is it just a female being weaker than male thing?

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marvel123

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@bezza: i think she should be: as strong as hercules, shazam, and stronger than aquaman, captain atom

i don't think it has any thing to do with gender; I would personally love to see miss martian be portrayed just as powerful and capable as martian manhunter or even all kryptonians (regardless of gender) shown to be capable of doing anything and everything that supes can do. i don't mind because the characters have similar physiology and origins

i said as strong as hercules because they are related and shazam because he has the strength of hercules

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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She should never be as strong as superman. That's a fanboys wish and not what wonder woman is supposed to be. Pretty sure she was never stated to be or meant to be as strong as superman and most people who want her to be just want her to be equal to him to make her look equal to a man or something along those lines. I would give her 100 tons base strength maximum while straining and 150 if she's in a lot of distress or in danger of dying.

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Outside_85

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@bezza said:

...Why cant she be as strong as Superman, she is the DC version of Thor in many ways and Thor is as strong as superman and has a hammer and has his lightning, no-one complains that he is over-powered, but people want WW to be weaker..is it just a female being weaker than male thing?

In the mid of DC, I think they are just unwilling to have her be a physical match to Superman, because it would emasculate him. Like we all know he has several weakness'; glowing rocks, different color light and a weirdly noticeable vulnerability to magic. Wonder Woman hasn't really had any of those since Marston passed away.

@bezza: i think she should be: as strong as hercules, shazam, and stronger than aquaman, captain atom

Just to point out, matching Captain Atom in the New 52 is pretty pointless, since he's not about strength at all.

@jayc1324 said:

She should never be as strong as superman. That's a fanboys wish and not what wonder woman is supposed to be. Pretty sure she was never stated to be or meant to be as strong as superman and most people who want her to be just want her to be equal to him to make her look equal to a man or something along those lines. I would give her 100 tons base strength maximum while straining and 150 if she's in a lot of distress or in danger of dying.

You obviously haven't read the fine print of why Marston created her in the first place: to have a female equal to Superman.

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ArchiZoom

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#17  Edited By ArchiZoom

@marvel123: She's stronger than Hercules

@powerwoman: I agree. Wonder Woman should have more powerful male enemies, world conquerors, Gods and corrupted governments, as opposed to resentful jealous women with no better purpose than hurting Wonder Woman because she's well-loved and pretty.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@outside_85: Obviously. But that's not what she is and she doesn't need to be to be a good character. Faora can be equal to superman. Its not a male/female thing. Wonder woman is stronger than a lot of men yet they aren't emasculated. Batman, green lantern, flash... I feel most wonder woman fans want her to be as strong as superman and Shazam and such because they want her to be equal with the men but that would be pretty cheap to do since she already isn't as strong as them. She doesn't need strength to fight them she can use speed and combat skill instead of punching it out with them. It gives her character more variety.

Plus she doesn't have many weaknesses. I can only think of two and one of them might not even be a weakness anymore.

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Outside_85

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#19  Edited By Outside_85

@jayc1324: And Faora is a sociopath and based on a character who is stated to be a man-hater. The point of Marston's Wonder Woman was to show girls and women they could be equal to Superman if they put their minds to it.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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marvel123

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@marvel123: She's stronger than Hercules

that's perfectly fine, i'm just saying that i didn't think gender was the issue.

In my opinion: female kryptonians Should be portrayed just as capable as male kryptonians, same should go for the martians, atlanteans, average humans, thanagarians, ect..........but i don't like the idea of having characters from different alien races being on par with each other powerwise (however they gave a good explanations for the daxamites and kryptonians)

* off topic question, would you consider faora to be stronger than hercules?

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PowerWoman

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I dont hope dc change that point(they are would be change?never)

I just hope give wonder woman some really respect and real awesome FEATS

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ArchiZoom

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@marvel123: I don't like the idea of Kryptonians being so incomparably powerful and that their power is without limits. I don't know how strong Faora is relative to Hercules, I think she and Wonder Woman should be identically powerful, one marginally stronger than the other without explicitly revealing who and how much.

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dshipp17

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#24  Edited By dshipp17

@bezza said:

...We all have different opinions of New 52 Wonder Woman's strength levels. Her strength does seem to vary, depending on who is writing the comic, in some JL stories she has at times seemed powerful, whereas in her own comic where she doesn't seem very powerful at all and then in Superman/WW comic where she is somewhere in between perhaps. Anyway I am going to come right out and say that she is supposed to be as strong as Hercules and the Marvel Herc is physically Hulk level and Thor level, so that's where she would be. If I wrote it she would definitely be able to fight Superman and not be outclassed physically like she is now. What about you?

PW in particular, you are famed for your posts slating Wonder Woman's strength level so how strong would you make her?

Speaking of others, I’d point out that Wonder Woman's power level is no different from what her power level was in 1986, at the start of the post-crisis era; I'm not really sure why people have just gone with a "New 52" as compared with a post-crisis Wonder Woman.

Having said that, I really like the Justice League episode "For the Man Who Has Everything"; I think Wonder Woman's power level was perfect there, as it was established in that episode; in other wards, strong, but somewhat below Superman; Wagner’s Trinity would also be instructive; however, I think Superman is depicted as overpowered; I'd put Superman in the class of The Thing, in the Marvel Universe, and Wonder Woman at the power level of 90s Rogue, or the original Carol Danvers, Ms Marvel. That means that characters like Thor, Hulk, Juggernaut, Apocalypse, Gladiator, and perhaps, Colossus, are stronger, but they're clearly stronger than most others; I also equate normal Saiyans as equivalent to Kryptonians, so, Super Saiyans are stronger than even a sun dipped Kryptonian; that place's Android 18, Cell, and Kid Buu at the top of the power chain, as far as Superman is concerned; not necessarily Apocalypse. All of the stuff that Rucka and writers going forward produced, in terms of her power level, would be removed.

With that idea in wind, I’d write Wonder Woman very differently. First, I'd either remove Zeus as her father, and make one of the sailors her father, or some other man Hippolyta got involved with, which would make for excellent additional storytelling that I'd either save for last or leave to the next writer to resolve, or I'd say Wonder Woman only got a healing factor from Zeus, if DC editorial insisted that the Zeus angle remained cannon.

The first issue that I'd work on is Wonder Woman's income source and the environment around her. Wonder Woman's power level can increase when her bracelets are removed and she can become as weak as any woman, if her bracelets are bound. I like the idea of Wonder Woman as a sex worker and Dr. Psycho as her pimp; although her riches from Paradise Island would be a good explanation, I believe the explanation resolves too quickly and leaves for a very uninteresting story line; Wonder Woman could be a model, but such would still not be as interesting, but more interesting than using her Paradise Island riches; Wonder Woman could do speeches, but such too much resembles what Greg Rucka has already covered and would not be as interesting.

So, we explore the dynamics between Dr. Psycho, the pimp, and Wonder Woman, the sex worker; Wonder Woman is in something like her Diana Prince identity and no one knows she's Wonder Woman, where Dr. Psycho has assigned her to work as a sex worker; only Dr. Psycho is aware of her Wonder Woman identity and Wonder Woman wants it that way, also. Dr. Psycho has assigned Wonder Woman to work in some parallel reality, where few of the creatures there have a power level below hers; everyone there has a power level at or above Wonder Woman's power level; these creatures look all sorts of ways and there are no humanoid creatures on Wonder Woman’s sex worker coverage zone; none of these creatures resemble earth animals either, except being reptilian in appearance; the Green Men of Mars, from Dejah Thoris, is representative of how one group of these creatures look and behave, except they do not consider consuming human female flesh; Dr. Psycho’s psychic abilities are overwhelming to Wonder Woman in this environment and Wonder Woman is not always significantly stronger than Dr. Psycho in this environment. The place has all sorts of crime lords, rivalries, global dangers, desert wastelands that makes Wonder Woman behave as any woman in a desert environment, jungle environments, ice environments, etc. Wonder Woman has a device connected to her choker that keeps her aware of dangers back on her native home world; Dr. Psycho is aware of the device, but does not know how Wonder Woman interfaces with it; Wonder Woman could reach her native home world most quickly by acquiring Dr. Psycho's permission or she can get back to earth no quicker than 15 minutes through a means described in the story. In this environment, Dr. Psycho is someone that everyone respects and do not want to cross; Wonder Woman's earnings are completely left to Dr. Psycho's discretion; all of her earnings go back to Dr. Psycho who is required to keep a strict quota by a yet to be revealed supervillain (e.g. where my story would be similar to JMS); Wonder Woman is required to record her earnings to Dr. Psycho in this strange world, where Dr. Psycho has a headquarters; however, Wonder Woman can seek permission from Dr. Psycho to return to her native world both while Dr. Psycho is at his headquarters, on this strange world, or by communicating with him through a device that Dr. Psycho has attached to her bracelets. With that in mind, the story dynamics unfold; Wonder Woman will endure all sorts of emotional, psychological, physical, and sexual traumas in this environment, largely created by the requirements to communicate with Dr. Psycho to return to Earth in order to deal with superhero issues, or to visit Superman, other Justice League members, and friends; I'll provide the details as the unfolding story, but, overtime, Wonder Woman will be held in depreciating regard in this other world, as all credit for saving this world will be attributed to Dr. Psycho; slavery will be explored in graphic detail, also. On this other world, Wonder Woman's costume resembles Dejah Thoris's costume and Wonder Woman is more revealing as compared to most of the other sex workers. For reasons between Wonder Woman and Dr. Psycho, she cannot reveal her experiences in this world to anyone close to her on her home world or anyone else in her home world.

As a prologue, or as an additional story, we'll explore Wonder Woman's leave from Paradise Island and assimilation into the outside world, leading up to her meeting Dr. Psycho. The reasons that she's not using the Paradise Island treasury for income is explored. Her strong aversion for men is explored into her development as the Wonder Woman we know is explored; eventually, Wonder Woman's personality is similar to Red Sonja's personality; Wonder Woman's initial interactions with the Justice league is explored; Wonder Woman's feelings for Steve Trevor will be mellowed out in comparison to Marston's version of Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman's place of living in New York and London is explored and how Dr. Psycho appropriates her funds to support her costs of living; Wonder Woman’s initial superhero encounters with her other rogues will be explored.

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jphulk26

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depends on the kind of story i´m telling of her. the story is always more important.

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ArchiZoom

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#27  Edited By ArchiZoom

@dshipp17: So in a nutshell, Wonder Woman, having grown up in Themyscira holds a prejudice towards men as she was raised to believe men are evil so the first thing she does upon leaving the island is volunteer to be a sex slave to them

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@agent41: Stuff from the golden age doesn't really matter now. And I'm pretty sure in the new 52 at least Shazam is stronger. He seems to be a better match for superman than her.

And I know she's above 150 tons but that's what I would make her limit if I were writing her. I wouldn't state it outright or have her fail to lift anything but she would never be in a situation where she had to lift something over that if I wrote her. I don't see wonder woman primarily as a powerhouse I would emphasize her speed and fighting skill and magic weapons

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PowerWoman

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I hope everyone read this:about why men always stronger than women even in the comic book

The tragic destruction of the hero in mythology is a timeless theme. The essence of comic book mythology is the fine line between good and evil. Superman is destroyed over and over in the comics. He was Killed by "Doomsday," He is killed by Wonder Woman or Batman in "imaginary stories." He is killed and brought back to life to fight again - to win and lose again and again.

Usually, in the 'real' comics, he wins. Usually. But the writers of comics realized a long time ago that it's boring to have an omnipotent hero who wins over and over again. They realized that stories where the hero gets beaten are more interesting - as long as he eventually wins. But this envelope has been pushed further and further. What happens when the hero really loses? When his powers fail him? The worst case scenario.

Naturally, the "real" Superman will continue to win and lose and win in the end. The original Superman always won very easily - which was exciting when the concept was brand new ... but alternate realities being a staple of the comic book genre, asthere must be another reality where he always loses. What would that be like? At the least it would be "Ideologically sensitive."

I have placed a disclaimer with, basically, the above statement on many of my works on this site because I am aware that some fellow Deviantart-ists do not like to see their heroes destroyed. I can understand this, so I think it's fair to express that I'm aware of some of the issues issues some people might have with the themes explored in my work here. Certainly if one does work which is acknowledged to be "ideologically sensitive" then one must expect someone to be offended.

In particular, the destruction of an iconic male hero like Superman or Hercules by a female is ideologically sensitive because it challenges the normal assumption that males are naturally more powerful than females. This assumption is certainly backed up by physiological realities within our species, but in nature it is more often than not the exact opposite. Males of many species are weaker than females. So the principle of male superiority is not universal. Likewise, "good" and "evil" are not universal absolutes. Challenging and subverting such ideas can open ones mind to understanding opposing viewpoints. We all hold beliefs which are despised by someone, somewhere.

If the hero myth has any real value in our lives, it is that it is aspirational. But one persons hero is another persons nemesis. One persons devil is another persons saint. Recognizing this, as an artist I have chosen to explore my own struggle with the ramifications of exploding and redefining the male hero myth.

While the world struggles with societal upheavals, many of which are expressions of clashing religious and philosophical ideologies, artists may be moved to reflect on these struggles and address them in some form. I believe that at the root of most of the world's conflicts is the unresolved question of gender primacy. Most of the women in the world live in societies in which they are subject to laws made exclusively by males. Many of these laws are — and have long been — uniquely oppressive to women. One can argue that males are also subject to unfair laws, among which are those which require men to fight in wars while women are omitted from such duty, but let's not forget — it is a male power structure which is making these laws. This has been true for thousands of years, but may not have always been the case. Not every society from the beginning of our species has treated women as inferior and subject to male rule. As a male, I am troubled by the current state of affairs since I believe that women are, as a group, naturally superior to men. On an individual basis we all have our strengths and weaknesses ... all women are not "better" than all men, nor is the reverse true. But as groups, or classes, the case can be made for female superiority.

There is no natural reason why the entire class of men should be entitled to have dominion over the entire class of women, but this is the world in which we currently live, as long as most of the worlds' governments and corporations are primarily controlled by men. I believe there is actually a greater case to be made for the dominance of women, as a group, over men. This theme is at the root of the work I post here. Using the comic book mythos as a means of exploring the alternate reality of the transition from male to female dominance in society. Comic books are, of course, very simple. There is liberty in the comic book form to decide what is real and what is not. Anything is possible. It is a fantasy medium. So themes can be dealt with is simple terms. This is why physical conflict is so essential to comics. Characters engage in physical battles which represent deeper struggles. It can be cathartic, or it can be troubling. I find the thing that troubles one the most is the thing that must be faced head on, rather than avoided.

There is a lot of similarly themed work here on DiviantArt, and I won't presume to know the artists' motives for all of it, but as far as I'm concerned, it all really is an expression of a real effort to deal with a profound ideological state of affairs. Society is changing in striking ways as women achieve gains in some places while forces work to keep them down in others. The symbolism of the muscular female can be seen a number of ways. Is it merely pornography? It is real empowerment of the female? or is it something else? Muscles seem have been the symbol of maleness for a long time, but even in the work of Michelangelo the muscular female is ubiquitous. As a usurpation of an assumed 'exclusively male' domain, the muscle woman presents a real threat to notions of masculine supremacy and thus, patriarchy.

Years ago it was unheard of for female comic book characters to have defined musculature. Look at the comics up until the 1970's and you won't see any female characters with flexed biceps and six-pack abs. Somewhere around the introduction of the character "Thundra" [link] in 1972, the really powerful, muscular female became OK. She was one of the first real challengers to the male hegemony on muscle-power as she easily out-muscled the Thing. Once the door was opened, it became less and less taboo. It's interesting, though, that the most muscular female characters during that period were often villains, as if a muscular female had to be evil since she was a challenge to male norms. Thundra was interesting in that she was not really a villain at all, but a hero(ine) in her own right who was at odds with those male norms. It was brave of Stan Lee to introduce such a character - Thundra built on the strong female meme also explored by Marvel's Valkyrie, but differed from her in that she was not based on Norse mythology but on an imagined future on Earth in which females rule. DC comics explored the matriarchy theme a few years before in 1968 [link] in Adventure Comics wherein the female members of the Legion of Super Heroes are given enhanced powers by an evil matriarchal villain who wants them to kill the boys and take over. In that story, Supergirl realizes that she and the other girls are being controlled by the villainess and thwarts her evil plan, saving the boys and returning everything to normal, in which the boys are the leaders and the girls, their inferiors. In 1968 it was still necessary for females who wanted to be more powerful than males as inherently evil.

The only real exception was Wonder Woman who was created by a man who was an avowed female supremacist [link]. But Wonder Woman was quickly established as a "safe" heroine because she was not mortal. Being a demi-goddess, her connection to ancient Greek mythology made it OK for her to almost as strong as Superman - or maybe stronger - or maybe not - but never clearly stronger. The ambiguity of her power undercut the message of female empowerment. Superman was well established as THE strongest hero of all. Wonder woman's powers could be construed as "magical" so even if she could equal Superman, it could always be dismissed. Also, she was never drawn as muscular until well after female muscles became acceptable. So while Wonder Woman was on some level a challenge, she hardly posed a real threat to patriarchal ideology in comics. Wonder Woman was an outlier until other true ballbusting females like Thundra came along. These days even the good-girls can be ballbusters ... [link] ... this would have been obscene and scandalous had it been published in 1968.

Maybe it was Billie Jean King defeating Bobby Rigg in 1973, or Helen Reddy singing "I Am Woman" in 1975, or the influence of Ms. Magazine founded in 1971, or "Pumping Iron II: The Women" in 1985, or any number of other game changing cultural moments, but the powerful female is here to stay. The muscular female is no longer a novelty but a real icon of heroism, and she can challenge the patriarchal norm while remaining heroic. And if muscular women can "challenge" male dominance in the world of comic book fantasy, then why can't they actually win?

They realize the inherent contradictions of the basic super hero concept from a scientific perspective. So the power balance between Superman and Supergirl or Wonder Woman, for that matter, is kept deliberately ambiguous because the writers know that a lot of us find it exciting to imagine that the superhero strength balance might actually be in favor of the female due to some natural female capacity for greater super powers, even in a world where the "normal" human strength balance averages the other way.

The laws of physics do not apply in comic books. No matter how anyone attempts to explain the super powers of characters like Superman or Supergirl scientifically, they are all impossible. Therefore, anyone can decide what level of power any character is capable of to suit their whims.

The only reason Superman is expected to be stronger than Supergirl is because "normal" men are expected to be stronger than "normal" women. But if these "super" beings are able to defy the laws of physics by flying through space, travel through time, move planets, carry ships through the air, use their "super" breath in outer space to destroy a solar system ... et-cetera ... then why should the "normal" male-female strength ratio have any meaning?

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judasnixon

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If I wrote Wonder Woman? Basic Generic Super Strength. I would focus on her combat skills. I would love to see Wonder Woman snap a person's arm in an arm bar.........

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#32  Edited By Erik

Almost as strong as Superman.

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PowerWoman

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I hope everyone read this:about why men always stronger than women even in the comic book

In reading comics, one thing I've tended to notice is that female characters based upon the physical characteristics of strength and durability (to the best of the feats I'm familiar with) often don't seem to have a lot of feats comparable to what their concepts and male characters of similar concepts seem to have.

For example, Powergirl is a kryptonian. Even if she has half Superman's strength or even a fourth (though a fourth is really undercutting her), she should have some incredible feats of strength. Yet, in the recent TPB, the most impressive strength feat I recall is landing a passenger plane. Likewise, although in the early current Supergirl, we kept being told she seemed more powerful than Superman, we didn't see any feats comparable. Although I can think of one scene of Wonder Woman lifting a mountain or at least a huge chunk of one, same problem. Not a lot of feats in comparison to stated power levels.

Do you think there is a tendency of writers to not think in terms of things like displays of strength by female characters? With male characters (Superman, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, etc), I think there's a tendency to want to show how strong he is and an assumption the readers want to see how strong he is. With female characters, I think there's a focus more on ahem other attributes than how powerful they are.

The Marvel Family may be a perfect example. The classic Marvel Family (well, Power of Shazam anyway) shared the same powers equally from the same source. However, unless I missed it, Mary doesn't have strength feats comparable to Cap.

But on the flipside, is there a tendency of the readers to want to underplay and dismiss the power of female characters, especially ones whose powers are in categories men traditionally take pride in as their domain such as strength and toughness (and maybe speed but to a lesser degree)?

Mind you, I realize there is a counter-argument that some of us want to overplay the abilities of some female characters to maybe compensate for the tendency of writers to not display their raw power as much. But I notice things like, for instance, the numerous times the writer ignores the Flash's or Superman's speed. The Flash gets hit by people that don't even have super speed. Same for Supes. These are dismissed as PIS even though there are numerous examples of it happening. They are dismissed in favor of the feats where it doesn't happen.

But with Wonder Woman, for example, there are many examples of her not using her speed and these are taken often as clear examples of her true speed level, not PIS while tremendous speed feats like catching Jesse Quick in the speed force or running around someone deflecting countless shards moving at lightspeed + are dismissed as PIS.

I'm probably overstating the case but it almost seems like

Male character <----> high end feats = perceived norm, low end equals perceived PIS

Female character <----> low end feats = perceived norm, high end feats equals perceived PIS.

Mind you, this only is for strength based characters. I'm not talking about Jean Grey or similar characters that use telepathy and other powers rather than excelling in traditional male powers.

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PowerWoman

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@archizoom: @agent41:

Guy,you need read my post,that was true worlds,men always stronger than women always better than women always have more strength/speed feats

Because this is a traditional male domain

Because strength is male nature

Woman cant stronger than man,that would be hurt Men's self-esteem

No matter what writer said superman is stronger than supergirl or other because he have more solar energy or more older

This is just an excuse

The real core of the problem is that a woman can not be stronger than men

This will make a man uneasy

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@agent41: I know she is written as a powerhouse but to me that makes her character more boring. She is actually skilled and can use her speed and martial arts to get things done instead of just powering through like the men. That's what Supergirl is for.

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@agent41: OK good points. I just like seeing wonder woman rely on her strength less.

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Muffin_Sangria

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#38  Edited By Muffin_Sangria

In some ways I think Wonder Woman works better as a less strong character. At least from a moving planets and stuff like that perspective. But at the same time she definitely should be "almost" as strong as Superman. The really issue it that DC goes to crazy with Superman's feats then they have to mess with her strength levels to even things out.

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Bezza

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#39  Edited By Bezza

WW is definitely in the +100 ton class, we have seen several feats in the New 52 universe which confirm that, but to my mind she has fallen quite a bit behind Superman. She certainly shouldn't be breaking arms in bar fights, she is a top tier character, so she should be fighting similar level opponents. As I have said before she is the DC Thor, her dad is a Sky Father and her siblings are Greek Gods. Thor has massive strength and fighting skills, why not wonder woman?

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dshipp17

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#40  Edited By dshipp17

@archizoom said:

@dshipp17: So in a nutshell, Wonder Woman, having grown up in Themyscira holds a prejudice towards men as she was raised to believe men are evil so the first thing she does upon leaving the island is volunteer to be a sex slave to them

The first thing she does upon leaving Paradise Island is to hold the expected prejudice towards men and encounter her classic villains which includes Dr. Psycho, in particular; she than meets the members of the Justice League; becoming a sex worker for Dr. Psycho is something that will develop over time, during her earlier battles with her classic villains; although my run would start off with Dr. Psycho, the pimp, and Wonder Woman, the sex worker, things were not always that way; starting her off as a sex worker for Dr. Psycho sets the tone for my run; the reasons why it happened will be explored and explained as my run progresses. The thing is, Wonder Woman will maintain a personality that kind of resembles Red Sonja's personality, although the personality will not serve her well with Dr. Psycho or in this alternative world, as a sex worker, and would have a tendency to create trouble and create interesting new issues. I'm just into keeping things interesting and different for my run.

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dshipp17

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#41  Edited By dshipp17

@agent41 said:

@jayc1324:WW has always been way above 150 tons and has always been stronger than captain marvel,in the golden age WW was miving the moon and the sun,then if we compare their feats from 1986 until now,WW has had better feats than him in the past 28 years too,superman has better feats than both shazam and WW,and WW's feat catalogue through the years has always been better than shazam's.

@dshipp17:

dbz characters are not the most powerful characters and they have nothing to do with this forum.

why would WW a character that represents equality and sel empowerment offer herself as a sex slave?,she is not meant to be sex toy.

the man who has everything was based on a pre crisis comic, pre crisis WW was moving islands and mountains with ease and mongul was stronger than that so he had the upper hand but superman was not able to defeat mongul either,and mongul never really defeated her in the comic,the episode based on it added things that didn't happen in the comic,trinity is not accurate with WW's power level,why she should be completely helpless against superman?,that is not how she is consistently portrayed,usually through the years she is portrayed as strong enough to put up a good fight against him.

why do you say superman or WW are overpowered?,it seems you have no problem with thor,hulk and gladiator moving mountains and busting planets but superman and WW shouln't be able to do the same because that would make them overpowered?,then why you don't have a problem with thor,hulk and gladiator doing the same?.

i have never seen ms marvel lifting things above 100 tons,while WW's consistent showings since 1986 put her strength above the 250.000 tons(at least),and that puts her above the thing and colossus too.

The thing is, for the sake of Wonder Woman, we need to get past this position that she is not meant for this and this; Wonder Woman does not have a homogeneous set of fans; the problem with the Wonder Woman sells is this notion of a homogeneous set of fans that got created with the departure of Marston and Messner-Loebs; DC forgot that, just like your group, both Marston and Messner-Loebs had a set of fans with a taste quite different from your own; I for one, does not see Wonder Woman as representing equality and self-empowerment, although she may have once represented women's equality, although those days have long past; that's the archaic anchor DC keeps allowing certain fans to place on Wonder Woman's back; I don't think Wonder Woman represents self-empowerment because her history is that of a princess, not a Cinderella type of character who escaped an oppressive environment; so, getting past this notion of what a fan base you may represent considers what Wonder Woman is meant to be, I'm exploring a fresh take in storytelling for Wonder Woman that are natural evolutions from the forgotten Marston and Messner-Loebs fans; additionally, I think this take would bring in new fans such as Dejah Thoris fans, Red Sonja fans, playboy fans, BDSM fans, etc, and combine them with at least the Messner-Loebs fans, assuming that the Marston fans have all past away or too old to really care about comics anymore; however, a new generation of fans would probably find the Marston material quite fascinating; I'm apart of the newer generation.

Logically speaking, the Saiyans are probably more powerful than the Krytonians in their natural form (e.g. see the Frieza saga, where they are capable of blocking blows passed by Frieza that make craters); I just gave Kyptonians a power boost for the sake of argument; realistically, there should be a question as to whether Kyptonians are even as powerful as Piccolo; thus, a logical conclusion to make is that a Super Saiyan is meant to be just that more powerful; the Super Saiyan level 1 accounts for Frieza's power level; thus, a sun dipped Krytonian is probably as powerful as a normal Saiyan or a bit more powerful, but not quite at Super Saiyan level; Android 18 is at least a Super Saiyan 2 level; Super Cell is more powerful still, and Kidd Buu is more powerful than a Super Saiyan level 3 and fused Saiyan form level 2; thus, by logical progression is that Android 18, Cell, and Kidd Buu are very powerful; I'm not necessarily saying that they're the most powerful characters, as that would bring me into conflict with what DC has been trying to make the Kyptonians; Dragon Ball GT apparently introduces the characters that are suppose to be more powerful than Kid Buu, I just disagree with it; I'm not sure where Broly is suppose to stack on the power chain, as I never got into GT and beyond; I believe that Kid Buu at the top was a natural conclusion for DBZ.

To be quite frank, Juggernaut and Hulk look like freaks of nature and scare me, whereas Superman and Wonder Woman resemble strong and lean warriors similar to myself; whereas Superman is some pretty boy who may or may not be stronger than me and a better fighter, Juggernaut and Hulk brings out that trepidation in me that requires a different type of focus, as if I were preparing to fight Goliath; by the way, my name is David; Gladiator brings out a similar trepidation as Juggernaut and Hulk, because he’s some guard that an unknown alien force is faithfully relying on for protection, meaning, he could be like trying to move a mountain, from my perspective, and he could be some ruthless killing machine; thus, I’d let someone else go ahead of me in a battle against Gladiator and seeing him handle Juggernaut, I'd definitely go back in my Batcave and make some type of plan of attack and pray for guidance from God. Therefore, I don’t think that Superman and Wonder Woman should be considered freaks of nature, just strong warriors, and thus should be portrayed as such

I understand that Carol Danvors has not been displayed as performing certain feats, but, I just think she and Wonder Woman are just in each other classes and Wonder Woman should be adjusted as such.

.

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@bruxae said: I might be biased both as a woman and a huge WW fan but I feel like she should be atleast as strong as Superman on a normal day, not a sun dipped one though. Her durability would be below his, but her combat skill would be superior.

This, and for me god mode Wonder Woman should be as strong as sun dipped superman (like when he was powered up by Apollo).

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I would take away all her powers just to see the fanboys cry

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Muffin_Sangria

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@blackfeath: I'd say she more makes up with her less durability by having a better healing factor. Healing factors normally aren't that graded but I think there have been comics that implied that her's was better then his. Seems pretty fair too. It takes more for him to take damage but it also takes longer o recover when he does.

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@outside_85: Yeah so she's probably not exactly the same character anymore. Batman used to carry a gun, superman used to literally eat kryptonite, and IIRC wonder woman used to not be able to fly. Characters change drastically over time. So while she may have been created to match superman, that's not what she is right now.

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@jayc1324 said:

@outside_85: Yeah so she's probably not exactly the same character anymore. Batman used to carry a gun, superman used to literally eat kryptonite, and IIRC wonder woman used to not be able to fly. Characters change drastically over time. So while she may have been created to match superman, that's not what she is right now.

It's what she's been for the last three decades, much more than she was under Marston (see all the silly scans PW keep posting of Superman). There is after all a reason this played out the way it did:

No Caption Provided

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@outside_85: Interesting. I've only read wonder woman in JL comics and I have never seen her portrayed as strong as superman in the bronze age i might be wrong though. But I know she isn't as strong as superman in new 52.

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@jayc1324: Sorry, but the only measure I can imagine you have is Lobdells planet benching Superman, and thats only of use because Diana just hasn't engaged in stuff like that in her own book.

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@outside_85: For the new 52, yes that is the main thing I am going by but he has done other things that she hasn't too. And I know this isn't superman but shoes and ultra man basically have the same strength, and ultramoon pulled the moon out of orbit and moved it to block out the sun