Sounds like soft-core erotica disguised as pro-sex feminism, they should be ashamed. Totally saw this coming. Well I'm sure it will delight boys the whole world over, good for them. Maybe Wonder Woman's just not for me.
most of these reviewers dont seem to understand the character to be fair or the origins of the character to see where he was going with it. i think everything ive seen has shown that more than likely the reviews of the book arent reflective of the title because they critique pretty mundane things while ignoring other possible problems that i glimpsed from seeing the previews
most of these people keep saying "fat amy" like etta candy wasnt a character that existed in the original lore
Sounds like soft-core erotica disguised as pro-sex feminism, they should be ashamed. Totally saw this coming. Well I'm sure it will delight boys the whole world over, good for them. Maybe Wonder Woman's just not for me.
...Are you telling me there are feminists against sex?
@willienotwilliam: The Earth One line is supposed to provide a jumping-off point for new comic book readers and for that reason ought to be self-explanatory, it's not meant for a handful of well-read connoisseurs like yourself. I read a little bit or Marston and iirc Wonder Woman fought plump amazon warriors in the tournament, Themyscira didn't use to be Zeus' playboy ranch, that was Morrison's idea
I was thinking of checking out the Earth One books, but I've heard some pretty mixed reviews of all of them.
Whenever you should or not depends on what you expect from the characters in the book and how much the original version matters to you. Basically the EO books are tweaked versions of the characters we know, but normally not so much that we can't recognize them.
This is the same review that was in that other Earth One Wonder Woman thread. And it's literally one early review from someone with clear biases and opinions on how Morrison has executed certain aspects of the Golden Age Wonder Woman into a modern retelling annoying the PC online feminist crowd suffice to say. I'd rather see other reviews of this graphic novel before making an informed opinion of Morrison's take on a Golden Age Wonder Woman origin story.
I have it on preorder from Amazon, but these reviews haven't really changed my decision to buy/read it. I am sure there will be parts I don't like just as I'm sure there will be things I think are great. Seems like a lot of these people are new to comics and/or WW too so I'm not sure how much credence I give their opinions
This is the same review that was in that other Earth One Wonder Woman thread. And it's literally one early review from someone with clear biases and opinions on how Morrison has executed certain aspects of the Golden Age Wonder Woman into a modern retelling annoying the PC online feminist crowd suffice to say. I'd rather see other reviews of this graphic novel before making an informed opinion of Morrison's take on a Golden Age Wonder Woman origin story.
This information makes me even more anxious to read it. I think I'm going to get an early copy so that I can review it. It's definitely making advances in the right direction. Hope DC takes note and plan the rebirth and meantime issues accordingly.
@brunnhilde: im aware that doesnt change the fact that the people reviewing it are coming from the point of supposed wonder woman fans themselves saying this is nothing like wonder woman when in fact all the things they listed were very much similar or taken from the actual comics. and while yes marston might have had a few non model like amazons i remember most of the women of that stature were played up for jokes in his run and the others were all skinny white women. ofc thats horrible on marston's part and morrison's as well but it was apart of the original work so i dont think its fair to say he isnt staying true on that account even tho you'd think given the times it wouldnt be like this
@dernman: there are plenty of fat people that exercise all the time also its not like being super skinny playboy models is any more of a realistic build for warriors
@dernman: there are plenty of fat people that exercise all the time also its not like being super skinny playboy models is any more of a realistic build for warriors
Not to the level of real constant training no. All that fat would turn into muscle like Olympic weight lifters. They are big and round but not fat or plump. Even then it's a minority especially for the Greek region. Furthermore this is comics.
Since when have they been known to generally show bodies that are not high end?
@brunnhilde: im aware that doesnt change the fact that the people reviewing it are coming from the point of supposed wonder woman fans themselves saying this is nothing like wonder woman when in fact all the things they listed were very much similar or taken from the actual comics. and while yes marston might have had a few non model like amazons i remember most of the women of that stature were played up for jokes in his run and the others were all skinny white women. ofc thats horrible on marston's part and morrison's as well but it was apart of the original work so i dont think its fair to say he isnt staying true on that account even tho you'd think given the times it wouldnt be like this
Etta was really the only "big girl" Marston regularly used and he treated her with the utmost respect.
@willienotwilliam: Marston's Wonder Woman invented the purple-healing ray and developed superpowers through amazonian training (although iirc she plucked a tree and outran a gazelle when she was very little, not sure whether she received blessings from Aphrodite). That though, went straight out the window. From what I've gleaned Diana stole the purple ray, seized the invisible plane and took off with Steve to America. What's more, the source of her strength now is the seed of Hercules. It would seem to me as though relative to Marston, Morrison played up the sex, the kink and their physical appearance but wasn't quite as keen on touting Wonder Woman's intellectual prowess which betrays his true intentions perhaps? Granted, I'm judging prematurely, I'll give him the benefit of doubt
@dernman: thats just not true the human body doesnt really work that way and in the same way plenty of male football players and heavy weight trainers still retain fat and a large body shape so do many women athletes so it would only make sense for Themyscira to have amazons of that size and honestly more likely that theyd be that size and bigger
ofc most women in comics are drawn in a specific way to appeal to people sexually but it doesnt make sense for them to look that way, even if i we start with this idea that fat women werent capable of being athletic,since most of them if they were trained would be extremely muscular and probably should be more so than most of the men we see in comics, but ofc this is comics so realism isnt exactly at the core of the portrayal of characters so why should it start to be when we talk about women that dont fit the typical ideas of sexy, because clearly thats the only reason for most women to be drawn with "high end" bodies ,whatever that means,
@csg_cl: i definitely believe Etta was well respected, however, i dont think the fat jokes can be denied in both her name("candy) and her characters love to eat. Also, there was a fat amazon that jokingly won a fight by sitting on a thinner amazon. I personally dont think either of these things are that big of a deal, esp in the big picture, but i dont think Morrison deserves to be critiqued for not respecting Marston's vision because of it, esp since lack of representation is a real legit critique on its own, esp since themyscira is meant to be a utopia and that has even worse connotations when you think of it.
@brunnhilde you dont have to give him the benfit of the doubt and i wouldnt put the idea of any of this past him or the company because its all happened before, and so has worse things, however i wont take the word of any of the reviews ive read on that link because they clearly dont have much of a grasp on the character or her history even though they are saying that they do
@csg_cl: i definitely believe Etta was well respected, however, i dont think the fat jokes can be denied in both her name("candy) and her characters love to eat. Also, there was a fat amazon that jokingly won a fight by sitting on a thinner amazon. I personally dont think either of these things are that big of a deal, esp in the big picture, but i dont think Morrison deserves to be critiqued for not respecting Marston's vision because of it, esp since lack of representation is a real legit critique on its own, esp since themyscira is meant to be a utopia and that has even worse connotations when you think of it.
@brunnhilde you dont have to give him the benfit of the doubt and i wouldnt put the idea of any of this past him or the company because its all happened before, and so has worse things, however i wont take the word of any of the reviews ive read on that link because they clearly dont have much of a grasp on the character or her history even though they are saying that they do
It's clearly a play on words and in her first appearance Diana even comments on Etta's size and it's explained that Etta was once slim but her love of candy filled her out. It's interesting that he then went on to portray her as a leader and all around capable woman for the next several years. I'm not so sure that scene with the Amazon was meant to show a "fat" woman so much as a muscular one, but maybe I'm thinking of a different moment ... remember the style of art at the time was quite different. I would say that Marston's work contained very little in terms of body shaming overall. Marston's general lack of representation is somewhat to be expected given the times (doesn't make it right), from what I've read he was a bit of a racist, especially concerning Asians, and certainly there were some horrible negative representations of non-whites in his work. Again, not surprising given the time, but that's not reason Morrison should get a hall-pass for lack of inclusion in 2016!
@dernman: thats just not true the human body doesnt really work that way and in the same way plenty of male football players and heavy weight trainers still retain fat and a large body shape so do many women athletes so it would only make sense for Themyscira to have amazons of that size and honestly more likely that theyd be that size and bigger
ofc most women in comics are drawn in a specific way to appeal to people sexually but it doesnt make sense for them to look that way, even if i we start with this idea that fat women werent capable of being athletic,since most of them if they were trained would be extremely muscular and probably should be more so than most of the men we see in comics, but ofc this is comics so realism isnt exactly at the core of the portrayal of characters so why should it start to be when we talk about women that dont fit the typical ideas of sexy, because clearly thats the only reason for most women to be drawn with "high end" bodies ,whatever that means,
Care to provide the names of those athletes?
'High end' in this particular context means peak human level fitness.Which lets face it.Most people dont attribute to plus size individuals.I imagine Amazons go for a more athletic body type instead of a muscular one.
I would also like to point out that men usually well toned as well.
@dernman: thats just not true the human body doesnt really work that way and in the same way plenty of male football players and heavy weight trainers still retain fat and a large body shape so do many women athletes so it would only make sense for Themyscira to have amazons of that size and honestly more likely that theyd be that size and bigger
ofc most women in comics are drawn in a specific way to appeal to people sexually but it doesnt make sense for them to look that way, even if i we start with this idea that fat women werent capable of being athletic,since most of them if they were trained would be extremely muscular and probably should be more so than most of the men we see in comics, but ofc this is comics so realism isnt exactly at the core of the portrayal of characters so why should it start to be when we talk about women that dont fit the typical ideas of sexy, because clearly thats the only reason for most women to be drawn with "high end" bodies ,whatever that means,
Care to provide the names of those athletes?
'High end' in this particular context means peak human level fitness.Which lets face it.Most people dont attribute to plus size individuals.I imagine Amazons go for a more athletic body type instead of a muscular one.
I would also like to point out that men usually well toned as well.
I also would like to point out something. You try hitting one of those people in the gut with your fist. You're not going to get the cushion you're expecting. It's going to be like hitting a wall of muscle. Not someone of fat and plump. Trust me I've done it, looks are deceiving.
@dernman: thats just not true the human body doesnt really work that way and in the same way plenty of male football players and heavy weight trainers still retain fat and a large body shape so do many women athletes so it would only make sense for Themyscira to have amazons of that size and honestly more likely that theyd be that size and bigger
ofc most women in comics are drawn in a specific way to appeal to people sexually but it doesnt make sense for them to look that way, even if i we start with this idea that fat women werent capable of being athletic,since most of them if they were trained would be extremely muscular and probably should be more so than most of the men we see in comics, but ofc this is comics so realism isnt exactly at the core of the portrayal of characters so why should it start to be when we talk about women that dont fit the typical ideas of sexy, because clearly thats the only reason for most women to be drawn with "high end" bodies ,whatever that means,
Care to provide the names of those athletes?
'High end' in this particular context means peak human level fitness.Which lets face it.Most people dont attribute to plus size individuals.I imagine Amazons go for a more athletic body type instead of a muscular one.
I would also like to point out that men usually well toned as well.
I also would like to point out something. You try hitting one of those people in the gut with your fist. You're not going to get the cushion you're expecting. It's going to be like hitting a wall of muscle. Not someone of fat and plump. Trust me I've done it, looks are deceiving.
Holly Mangold and Sandra Lemos
well they said "high end" in relation to comic book characters and women in comic books certainly dont look like peak human level fitness, at least not enough to use that as some reason that fat women shouldnt be amazons. i never said that men werent well toned my point is that the women in comics are typically not drawn realistically either way so realism isnt a reason to not include fat women
also those women obviously have muscle but they also have fat which was my point that fat women can have an array of body types, many of which are healthy and fit and show that they regularly exercise
I can see both sides of the coin here in terms of Morrison's approach. I have seen "Marston experts" praising Morrison and complaining about fans (whom they mostly view as lesser fans I've come to find out unfortunately) truly not understanding Wonder Woman's character just because they don't view her as overtly sexual. It's true Marston did explore kink culture in Wonder Woman, and yes, Morrison's paying homage to him. But Marston's Wonder Woman also had more stories that didn't involve kinks or sex or other innuendos and explored other nuances such as pacifism, femininity (and subsequently masculinity), love, friendship, healing, and so on. By comparison it seems as if Morrison only focuses on the sexual aspect of the character, so I think its totally reasonable for fans (the same fans the "Marston experts" embrace with vitriol apparently) to be a little disappointed that he probably focuses too much on the one aspect that still makes people uncomfortable.
That said. I can see that Morrison actually does have more to offer in this story than sex and shock factor and that this review hangs onto those concepts, because those are the most controversial.
@csg_cl: i definitely believe Etta was well respected, however, i dont think the fat jokes can be denied in both her name("candy) and her characters love to eat. Also, there was a fat amazon that jokingly won a fight by sitting on a thinner amazon. I personally dont think either of these things are that big of a deal, esp in the big picture, but i dont think Morrison deserves to be critiqued for not respecting Marston's vision because of it, esp since lack of representation is a real legit critique on its own, esp since themyscira is meant to be a utopia and that has even worse connotations when you think of it.
@brunnhilde you dont have to give him the benfit of the doubt and i wouldnt put the idea of any of this past him or the company because its all happened before, and so has worse things, however i wont take the word of any of the reviews ive read on that link because they clearly dont have much of a grasp on the character or her history even though they are saying that they do
It's clearly a play on words and in her first appearance Diana even comments on Etta's size and it's explained that Etta was once slim but her love of candy filled her out. It's interesting that he then went on to portray her as a leader and all around capable woman for the next several years. I'm not so sure that scene with the Amazon was meant to show a "fat" woman so much as a muscular one, but maybe I'm thinking of a different moment ... remember the style of art at the time was quite different. I would say that Marston's work contained very little in terms of body shaming overall. Marston's general lack of representation is somewhat to be expected given the times (doesn't make it right), from what I've read he was a bit of a racist, especially concerning Asians, and certainly there were some horrible negative representations of non-whites in his work. Again, not surprising given the time, but that's not reason Morrison should get a hall-pass for lack of inclusion in 2016!
i agree that overall marston didnt bodyshame and that etta was a dynamic character under marston and that the examples i brought up are few and far between, even if you dont think they are examples of fatphobia(which is fair). also, i feel like we pretty much agree on those last few points im not saying morrison should get a hall pass and i think that lack of rep is one of my biggest critiques from what ive seen. I just dont think his lack of representation has anything, or very little, to do with his lack of commitment to Marston's vision is all
@alsummers: Yeah he defined Wonder Woman as "the most sexually attractive, intelligent, potent woman you can imagine" but let's just say her intelligence wasn't at the top of Morrison's priorities. It's also worth noting that Wonder Woman:Earth One is through Morrison's own admission, a departure from his trademark Science-Fiction Epics and his first foray into quote, unquote "Chick Fiction" hence the inevitable stare down between the plain-looking Holiday Girls and the Amazon version of Das Sound Machine, plus the must-have makeover party
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