Posted by lilben42 (2537 posts) 1 year, 2 months ago

Poll: Azzerello? Leave or Stay (172 votes)

Stay 65%
Leave 15%
I don't care 20%

I personally think his book is amazing, and can't wait to see where he takes us. At the beginning I had some complaints but I easily got over it by the 11th issue.

#501 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieles:but goku is from a shonen manga,shonen means that everything is about the fight,the action,95% of the characters are males and everything is about them training,fighting,etc,how many time did you see goku sharing with his wife besides eating and sleeping?,how huge his father,husband role was?,it was the smallest part,completely irrelevant for the story because everything was about fighting,getting more powerful and protecting earth from villans that in were one dimensional,they appear trying to literally blow the planet,while,in DBZ chichi didn't take any more risks than any other person because villans weren't going after her to make goku suffer,it was always the planet itself that was in dangerous,in comics they would have to worry about the planet itself and their familily,because in comics villans are more complex,and they enjoy to make the heros suffer by going after their friends and family.

#502 Edited by Danieles (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: still an example , a small example but still: maybe western people can improve that idea.

#503 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio
#504 Posted by UltimateJonathan (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Stay forever

#505 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

LEAVE.

#506 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12136 posts) - - Show Bio

As good as the story may seem, he's trashing the characters themselves. Hermes can barely outrace an Astro Harness, Orion may as well be the new messenger god of speed. Cool now Diana is basically the new Cassie Sandmark being the daughter of Zeus and all but she barely shows it along with seeming disregard for her skillful Amazon backround, Artemis was basically Captain Boomerang as well as completely abandoned bows/arrows. I feel as though he can make a good story, but not make a good story along with the crazy over the top comic book action we know and love, whats going to happen when the next JLA issue comes out after you read the last WW comic....going from getting schooled by simple bricks like the first born to going toe to toe with DC Top Tiers like it was Pre-52....What's worse is that now he's bringing New Gods into the mix and having Orion get KO'd by stone pillars (thrown by the first born) which may as well make him the new Apocalypse who sh*ts himself when a table comes flying by or Darkseid who can't overcome the terrible staircase. The transition from JLA to solo series is not easy now that he's glorifying the First Born akin to Jeph Loeb and Red Hulk, having a BRICK damn near shame a character who no sold a speed blitz from Superman all for the sake of a good story. Wonder Woman's got a good enough story that he can stay for now to finish it, but once it's over I wan't a new artist, a new writer who will respect a character's capabilities as well as provide a good story with good villains (First Born might as well be Rhino or Mongul) with more complex abilities other than super strength, more showings of epic battles (the most we got out of Orion vs First Born was a few panels of fisticuffs and couple panels of pillar fight). Honestly I liked Pre-52 Wonder Woman more not because of how intricate the writers made her and her supporting characters, but how she was a top tier super hero incomparable with any other but had the best qualities of the most well known heroes as well as her own. Under Azzarello she is not a Super Hero/Heroin, nothing all too "super" about her. It's a good story, but it isn't an super hero action comic...they will still sell due to their quality, but if upgrades aren't made and capabilities kept consistent instead of downplaying for the sake of plot I will not pick it back up...this is Azzarello's last strike for me.

#507 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

As good as the story may seem, he's trashing the characters themselves. Hermes can barely outrace an Astro Harness, Orion may as well be the new messenger god of speed. Cool now Diana is basically the new Cassie Sandmark being the daughter of Zeus and all but she barely shows it along with seeming disregard for her skillful Amazon backround, Artemis was basically Captain Boomerang as well as completely abandoned bows/arrows. I feel as though he can make a good story, but not make a good story along with the crazy over the top comic book action we know and love, whats going to happen when the next JLA issue comes out after you read the last WW comic....going from getting schooled by simple bricks like the first born to going toe to toe with DC Top Tiers like it was Pre-52....What's worse is that now he's bringing New Gods into the mix and having Orion get KO'd by stone pillars (thrown by the first born) which may as well make him the new Apocalypse who sh*ts himself when a table comes flying by or Darkseid who can't overcome the terrible staircase. The transition from JLA to solo series is not easy now that he's glorifying the First Born akin to Jeph Loeb and Red Hulk, having a BRICK damn near shame a character who no sold a speed blitz from Superman all for the sake of a good story. Wonder Woman's got a good enough story that he can stay for now to finish it, but once it's over I wan't a new artist, a new writer who will respect a character's capabilities as well as provide a good story with good villains (First Born might as well be Rhino or Mongul) with more complex abilities other than super strength, more showings of epic battles (the most we got out of Orion vs First Born was a few panels of fisticuffs and couple panels of pillar fight). Honestly I liked Pre-52 Wonder Woman more not because of how intricate the writers made her and her supporting characters, but how she was a top tier super hero incomparable with any other but had the best qualities of the most well known heroes as well as her own. Under Azzarello she is not a Super Hero/Heroin, nothing all too "super" about her. It's a good story, but it isn't an super hero action comic...they will still sell due to their quality, but if upgrades aren't made and capabilities kept consistent instead of downplaying for the sake of plot I will not pick it back up...this is Azzarello's last strike for me.

very well said,some people think that we only care about feats,but hey,i've been following wonder woman for 21 years,and after 2 years with azzarello the best she did was lift a van and smash a big rock,and ko for an instant by falling from the sky very fast,that is way below wonder woman's standard,even loeb was ore consistent and accurate with the feats and had more action,whic is also an important part of a comic book featuring an amazon warrior as the main character.

#508 Posted by PowerWoman (3361 posts) - - Show Bio

As good as the story may seem, he's trashing the characters themselves. Hermes can barely outrace an Astro Harness, Orion may as well be the new messenger god of speed. Cool now Diana is basically the new Cassie Sandmark being the daughter of Zeus and all but she barely shows it along with seeming disregard for her skillful Amazon backround, Artemis was basically Captain Boomerang as well as completely abandoned bows/arrows. I feel as though he can make a good story, but not make a good story along with the crazy over the top comic book action we know and love, whats going to happen when the next JLA issue comes out after you read the last WW comic....going from getting schooled by simple bricks like the first born to going toe to toe with DC Top Tiers like it was Pre-52....What's worse is that now he's bringing New Gods into the mix and having Orion get KO'd by stone pillars (thrown by the first born) which may as well make him the new Apocalypse who sh*ts himself when a table comes flying by or Darkseid who can't overcome the terrible staircase. The transition from JLA to solo series is not easy now that he's glorifying the First Born akin to Jeph Loeb and Red Hulk, having a BRICK damn near shame a character who no sold a speed blitz from Superman all for the sake of a good story. Wonder Woman's got a good enough story that he can stay for now to finish it, but once it's over I wan't a new artist, a new writer who will respect a character's capabilities as well as provide a good story with good villains (First Born might as well be Rhino or Mongul) with more complex abilities other than super strength, more showings of epic battles (the most we got out of Orion vs First Born was a few panels of fisticuffs and couple panels of pillar fight). Honestly I liked Pre-52 Wonder Woman more not because of how intricate the writers made her and her supporting characters, but how she was a top tier super hero incomparable with any other but had the best qualities of the most well known heroes as well as her own. Under Azzarello she is not a Super Hero/Heroin, nothing all too "super" about her. It's a good story, but it isn't an super hero action comic...they will still sell due to their quality, but if upgrades aren't made and capabilities kept consistent instead of downplaying for the sake of plot I will not pick it back up...this is Azzarello's last strike for me.

Nice!!!!!

#509 Posted by Outside_85 (8940 posts) - - Show Bio

As good as the story may seem, he's trashing the characters themselves. Hermes can barely outrace an Astro Harness, Orion may as well be the new messenger god of speed. Cool now Diana is basically the new Cassie Sandmark being the daughter of Zeus and all but she barely shows it along with seeming disregard for her skillful Amazon backround, Artemis was basically Captain Boomerang as well as completely abandoned bows/arrows. I feel as though he can make a good story, but not make a good story along with the crazy over the top comic book action we know and love, whats going to happen when the next JLA issue comes out after you read the last WW comic....going from getting schooled by simple bricks like the first born to going toe to toe with DC Top Tiers like it was Pre-52....What's worse is that now he's bringing New Gods into the mix and having Orion get KO'd by stone pillars (thrown by the first born) which may as well make him the new Apocalypse who sh*ts himself when a table comes flying by or Darkseid who can't overcome the terrible staircase. The transition from JLA to solo series is not easy now that he's glorifying the First Born akin to Jeph Loeb and Red Hulk, having a BRICK damn near shame a character who no sold a speed blitz from Superman all for the sake of a good story. Wonder Woman's got a good enough story that he can stay for now to finish it, but once it's over I wan't a new artist, a new writer who will respect a character's capabilities as well as provide a good story with good villains (First Born might as well be Rhino or Mongul) with more complex abilities other than super strength, more showings of epic battles (the most we got out of Orion vs First Born was a few panels of fisticuffs and couple panels of pillar fight). Honestly I liked Pre-52 Wonder Woman more not because of how intricate the writers made her and her supporting characters, but how she was a top tier super hero incomparable with any other but had the best qualities of the most well known heroes as well as her own. Under Azzarello she is not a Super Hero/Heroin, nothing all too "super" about her. It's a good story, but it isn't an super hero action comic...they will still sell due to their quality, but if upgrades aren't made and capabilities kept consistent instead of downplaying for the sake of plot I will not pick it back up...this is Azzarello's last strike for me.

So much wrong in this block of text...

#510 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12136 posts) - - Show Bio

So much meaninglessness in this post of mine...

#511 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:based on what was simone's wonder woman was overpowered?,we saw her do all the things she did in previous runs,and genocide wasn't the only one able to hang with her,we had cheetah,power girl and others,you talk about inconsistency and like loebs?,he is the king of inconsistencies.

#512 Edited by dshipp17 (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@dshipp17:based on what was simone's wonder woman was overpowered?,we saw her do all the things she did in previous runs,and genocide wasn't the only one able to hang with her,we had cheetah,power girl and others,you talk about inconsistency and like loebs?,he is the king of inconsistencies.

At what points was Messner-Loebs' run inconsistent? Was it inconsistent within itself? Exactly, what are you talking about except expressing your opinionated dislike for his run? Cheetah was actually tortured by Wonder Woman in Simone's run. Power Girl was supposed to hang with Wonder Woman. Other than Genocide, there were no others that could hang with Wonder Woman in Simone's run within her Wonder Woman pages. It was a different matter in Secret Six, to a level, as the person to hang with Wonder Woman there, again, was female; Wonder Woman was left indisposed, but, when she came through, the pattern continued, with only male villains in the immediate vicinity. She came to just before Grendel could start doing his thing, but I blame that on editorial, not Simone. That's why I place those Secret Six issues so highly on my list, for what occurred and what potentially occurred. Editorial made many breaks in Simone's run until the villain/opponent was relegated to being female. The first idea was resurrected from Messner-Loebs' Space Pirate arc, than it was interrupted, the encounter with one of the Lantern, when it was interrupted, Beowulf/Grendel, when it was interrupted, Claw, when it was interrupted, the many armed creature, when it was interrupted, the cage fight organization run by Dr. Psycho, etc. Simone made a valiant effort, and had she been allowed to operate, I would probably have been left placing her run above Messner-Loebs' run, maybe even Marston's run. All of those editorial interruptions reduced her to just above any run; I did like Simone's run, but editorial forced her to turn Wonder Woman into something approaching a Mary Sue/Emma Peel, whichever is the phrase used for a female character who's untouchable and can't be challenged, yet alone lose, every now and than. I'm taking a look at Simone's Red Sonja, as I believe she'll be allowed her freedom to maneuver.

#513 Posted by Dernman (15071 posts) - - Show Bio

Man the stay people are trouncing the leave people.

#514 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:if you think silver banshee could do what she did to wonder woman in secret six,keep dreaming,wonder woman has defeated opponents far more powerful than silver banshee.

wonder woman had many powerhouses that could hang with her,cheetah was defeated by tactics and help from the outside,she would have killed wonder woman otherwise,power girl hang with her too,the same with genocide,green lantern,etc,and massner-loebs was inconsistent,and most of the stories suck,only a few issues were decent,that run is far away from being her best run,you are the only one on planet earth considering that trashy run her best,LOL,what a great joke.

#515 Posted by HeckTate (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

He's the only reason I've ever purchased any WW material, and I actually enjoyed it.

#516 Posted by dshipp17 (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

He's the only reason I've ever purchased any WW material, and I actually enjoyed it.

He's the reason that I didn't abandon Wonder Woman, altogether, after the later parts of Perez's run making her into a Mary Sue/Emma Peel. From Messner-Loebs' run, I've had to endure, hoping something similar will come along.

#517 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

He's the only reason I've ever purchased any WW material, and I actually enjoyed it.

he is the only reason why i stopped reading wonder woman after following her for 21 years,perez run,rukas run>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>azzarello run.

#518 Posted by dshipp17 (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:if you think silver banshee could do what she did to wonder woman in secret six,keep dreaming,wonder woman has defeated opponents far more powerful than silver banshee.

wonder woman had many powerhouses that could hang with her,cheetah was defeated by tactics and help from the outside,she would have killed wonder woman otherwise,power girl hang with her too,the same with genocide,green lantern,etc,and massner-loebs was inconsistent,and most of the stories suck,only a few issues were decent,that run is far away from being her best run,you are the only one on planet earth considering that trashy run her best,LOL,what a great joke.

You still haven't identified Messner-Loebs' inconsistencies. Your response to the Silver Banshee is testament to my point that Simone possibly would have been the best Wonder Woman writer of all time, so far, if allowed to freely operate.

#519 Posted by HeckTate (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

He's the only reason I've ever purchased any WW material, and I actually enjoyed it.

he is the only reason why i stopped reading wonder woman after following her for 21 years,perez run,rukas run>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>azzarello run.

so you followed WW for 21 years and finally quit? Maybe you should thank Azzarello for freeing you. In all seriousness though, WW was not a character I enjoyed at all before Azzarello. Regardless of how WW's long standing fans think of him, he brought in a lot of interesting new elements and new readers with that.

#520 Edited by Dernman (15071 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@dshipp17:if you think silver banshee could do what she did to wonder woman in secret six,keep dreaming,wonder woman has defeated opponents far more powerful than silver banshee.

wonder woman had many powerhouses that could hang with her,cheetah was defeated by tactics and help from the outside,she would have killed wonder woman otherwise,power girl hang with her too,the same with genocide,green lantern,etc,and massner-loebs was inconsistent,and most of the stories suck,only a few issues were decent,that run is far away from being her best run,you are the only one on planet earth considering that trashy run her best,LOL,what a great joke.

You still haven't identified Messner-Loebs' inconsistencies. Your response to the Silver Banshee is testament to my point that Simone possibly would have been the best Wonder Woman writer of all time, so far, if allowed to freely operate.

Hardly the best. I'll give her props for the story involving Alkyone but Gail Simone almost drove me away from Wonder Woman forever with the Genocide story.

#521 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@dshipp17:if you think silver banshee could do what she did to wonder woman in secret six,keep dreaming,wonder woman has defeated opponents far more powerful than silver banshee.

wonder woman had many powerhouses that could hang with her,cheetah was defeated by tactics and help from the outside,she would have killed wonder woman otherwise,power girl hang with her too,the same with genocide,green lantern,etc,and massner-loebs was inconsistent,and most of the stories suck,only a few issues were decent,that run is far away from being her best run,you are the only one on planet earth considering that trashy run her best,LOL,what a great joke.

You still haven't identified Messner-Loebs' inconsistencies. Your response to the Silver Banshee is testament to my point that Simone possibly would have been the best Wonder Woman writer of all time, so far, if allowed to freely operate.

don't be ridiculous you seriously think that silver banshee could beat wonder woman?,LOL,she has defeated people far above silver banshee.

#522 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@hecktate said:

He's the only reason I've ever purchased any WW material, and I actually enjoyed it.

he is the only reason why i stopped reading wonder woman after following her for 21 years,perez run,rukas run>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>azzarello run.

so you followed WW for 21 years and finally quit? Maybe you should thank Azzarello for freeing you. In all seriousness though, WW was not a character I enjoyed at all before Azzarello. Regardless of how WW's long standing fans think of him, he brought in a lot of interesting new elements and new readers with that.

thanks him for freeing me?,i'm still a wonder woman fan but not a fan of his crappy run,what interesting new elements?,what new readers?,the run is a flop,prevoius runs sold better than his run.

#523 Posted by HeckTate (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Ok, well as mentioned I'm a new reader of WW, so there's 1 for you, I'm going to assume you can do the rest of the legwork to find all the others.

As for new elements, how about the incorporation of the New Gods, or maybe the entirely new origin story? New villains, new allies, new things happening in the life of Diana. And this run is a flop just because previous runs have sold better? It ranked 19 out of all the DC titles for August, and 21 the month before. It's running pretty strong right now, just because it's sold more in the past doesn't make it a "flop" now. Batman is the 2nd highest selling title DC has as of August, but it's sold higher in the past. I guess that qualifies it as a flop then. Their 2nd highest grossing flop.

#524 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate:new gods?,nothing new about them except the looks and the fact they do nothing most ofd the time,new allies?,they are a buch of people with no development that go around like lost kids,new origin?,you mean making her the female hercules?,what's so great about that?.

and yes it's a flop compared to previous runs,batman is still a top 5 seller worldwide(in general,including marvel and other companiers),azzarello's run is selling considerably less than previous runs,so it's a flop,he just took wonder woman fan base away,and the new fans he get aren't enough to get the sales she used to get in the past.

perez run alone completely destroys floppelloz's floppy run.

#525 Posted by HeckTate (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: New Gods as in New Gods . . . Seriously, the fact that you didn't pick up on that leads me to believe you haven't read the majority of this run. No one made her "the female Hercules," they made her an actual person instead of some stupid clay figure brought to life. And apparently you're dreadfully unfamiliar with your Greek Mythology (the real stuff, not the crap DC has tried to pass off as Greek Mythology for decades) because guess what? Hercules is far from Zeus' only bastard kid out there. The dude has slept around with almost every female in Greek Mythology and some males. The majority of the Greek Pantheon are his children, legitimate or not, but sure, let's keep her as an animated clay doll, that's totally more relatable to readers than a dad who was never around. And the whole thing with the Amazons keeping the truth from her to hide her from Hera's wrath fits, because in real Greek Mythology Hera is essentially the goddess of being a massive b!tch. She threw Hephaestus from Mt Olympus when he was a baby, tried to kill Hercules as a baby, and then when Herc was grown up she gave him a list of suicidal tasks that she felt he would be unable to complete. Azzarello's run actually fits the Greek Mythology a whole lot better than any of the material before reboot, and that's with the addition of a conflicting Pantheon in the mix.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, and if you want to think that yours outweighs the 69% of people who weighed in on this issue with the opposite opinions, then you delude yourself as much as you want.

#526 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

@gokuwarrior: New Gods as in New Gods . . . Seriously, the fact that you didn't pick up on that leads me to believe you haven't read the majority of this run. No one made her "the female Hercules," they made her an actual person instead of some stupid clay figure brought to life. And apparently you're dreadfully unfamiliar with your Greek Mythology (the real stuff, not the crap DC has tried to pass off as Greek Mythology for decades) because guess what? Hercules is far from Zeus' only bastard kid out there. The dude has slept around with almost every female in Greek Mythology and some males. The majority of the Greek Pantheon are his children, legitimate or not, but sure, let's keep her as an animated clay doll, that's totally more relatable to readers than a dad who was never around. And the whole thing with the Amazons keeping the truth from her to hide her from Hera's wrath fits, because in real Greek Mythology Hera is essentially the goddess of being a massive b!tch. She threw Hephaestus from Mt Olympus when he was a baby, tried to kill Hercules as a baby, and then when Herc was grown up she gave him a list of suicidal tasks that she felt he would be unable to complete. Azzarello's run actually fits the Greek Mythology a whole lot better than any of the material before reboot, and that's with the addition of a conflicting Pantheon in the mix.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, and if you want to think that yours outweighs the 69% of people who weighed in on this issue with the opposite opinions, then you delude yourself as much as you want.

HAHAHA,i don't care about real mythology,being made out of clay is a unique origin,and she never needed a father to have good stopries or be interesting,the change to the amazons is unecesary too.

i don't care if you never found her relatable before,i don't care because it's comic world and not a soup opera/drama TV series,and wonder woman has her own flaws anyway.

who says she hasn't flaws?,she is naive sometimes,she also loses patience and act hastily.

she struggles with her duty as a hero and her beliefs,she struggles to understand how can she try to protect humans from evil when she also has to protec humans from themselves,how she protects humans,when she also has to protect the world from humans,she struggles to understand how she often has to fight the once she wants to protect,because the self-destructive nature of humans confuses her,makes her doubt,and she often questions herself about if what she does is right or wrong,she always suffers because her beliefs in love and peace contradict with the violence,lies and distrust of the man's world,which makes her vision of a better world a failure.

she can't establish a real relationship with someone because she doesn't want them to be hurt because of her and because she is always divided between her duty as a hero,her duty as an amazon and her responsabilities with the gods,she also struggles with the amazons point of view about the man's world,she tries to unite both worlds somehow but fail,to the point that sometimes even the amazons see her as a stranger,and because of that,sometime she wishes to be human,but she never gives up and keeps on trying to make a different,even if she has to sacrifice her own hapiness.

so i think there are many things that people can relate to.

the problem is quite simple,some writers keep trying to reinvent her(like floppelloz),oppose to building upon what has been laid out.

Stop trying to write for an audience and write the character cause she´s special to you and YOU relate to her story,if you don't feel her well don't writte her,but don't mess with her character,oh for god sake floppelloz.

Perez made her a very balanced character respecting her background,and Simone,Luke and Rucka made her fricking badass,Go back to there work, write that character and stop focusing on her and start focusing on her bad guys and her original supporting cast. A general rule of comics if you want old readers to love new stories as well as new ones, unless a story is stupid beyond repair, do not subtract, add to it.

So lets break down Wonder Womans story.

1. Amazons of the ancient world are exploited and frequently attempted to be conquered by men.

I like that intriguing.

2. Hercules is either tricked by Ares or he himself captures the Amazon queen or the whole Amazons. Forcing his barbaric will upon them.

Thats dark, cynical, actually has some very mature and adult themes. I´m not seeing a problem so far.

3. The Amazons escape and as recompense for their loyalty to the gods, they are given an island away from mans world where they can live in peace. They are granted immortality by the Gods.

Makes sense in a fantasy kind of way! I mean hey if people can buy into Lord of the rings, whats the problem here.

4. The Amazons make there home in to a virtues monarchy under the leadership of Queen Hippolyta.

Nice. So now we have an all female society. What might that be an interesting set up to explore gender themes, as well as use this as a platform to critique the notion of Utopia or in fact as mirror world to satirize the world we live in or both. Choose your poison.

5. The Amazons nature as women make them desire a child. Hippolyta is granted a very special child by the Gods. A child gifted with many blessing, so that all the Amazons will come to love her and it may quell their aching for a child.

Again an intelligent person should see lots to work with here.

6. The Amazons raise the child to be virtuous and a great warrior, however she who has never seen mans world is curious about it and doesn´t harbor the same prejudice towards it as her sisters.

Nice character, great bot of conflict. And notice the story isn´t man hating, as this child shows that with out the prejudice of these bad experiences you can be open minded.

7. The child who has now lived for thousands of years now feels inside that she is destined for more than this tiny island, however her mother Hippolyta, whose is prejudice against the world of Man and doesn´t want to lose her only daughter will not let go.

Parental conflict. Something we all can relate to, we can´t let our children be free, we don´t want them to grow up, but we children know the only way we can fulfill our destinies our dreams is to sometimes disobey our parents. RELATABLE.

8. Destiny arrives when secret service pilot Steve Trevor lands on the Island. Now again depending on your interpretation, Diana can take him back to be Ambassador of Mans World, or to discover what forces revealed her Island to the rest of the world or to fight Ares.

Perfect setup iconic, multiple themes to work from, so many angles to take and explore as demonstrated.

9. And we finish Diana wins the right to take Steve back to mans world against her mothers wishes, by winning a tournament proving she is the most capable Amazon warrior; however on entering mans world she finds her self a fish out of water. Not understanding its violence, but also seeing it and its peoples inherent capacity for good. Thus she uses her gifts and warrior skills to fight the forces of evil in the world.

9 Simple steps to great Wonder Woman story.

writters that don't know how to writte her is because they are lazy and don't look at the core of the character,to have a good wonder woman story you need to follow the standard.

1)amazons,the perfect world ruled by women where peace and love predominate,the utopia that the amazons represent,and diana ralizing that even amazon world isn't perfect and foghts with the prejudice that her sisters have against men.

2)the gods and their blessings to wonder woman.

3)diana is a pure soul,compassionate, kind and protective as a mother and also strong,independent,wise and fearless as a warrior.

4)diana's nature,her ability to open the heart of other people,her morals,what she stands for,the way she treats everyone even her villans,without prejudice,and the way her kind heart changes the lives of the people around her,even her villans.

5)diana's supporting cast,vanessa,julia,steve,etta,and how they get involve in diana's mission and try to help her even thought they are just mortals,showing that some humans are willing to go beyond their limits tryng to make a difference in this world,even thought they are vulnerable,they prove to be role models,that you don't even need powers to try to do siomething for this world.

6)diana's villans,they represent wonder woman's antithesis,ares is war,violence and obsessed with having total control. ,cheetah=hate,jealousy,contempt for life and power ambiccion,silver swan=lack of self-esteem,frustration and anger.

dr psycho=small man complex,loneliness,sadness and obsessed with finding someone for him to never be alone,his obsetion with diana.

circe=ego,evil,superiority complex and vindictive.

her villans not only have a lot of power,but they represent wonder woman's antithesis.

THIS IS THE TRUE WONDER WOMAN.

#527 Posted by HeckTate (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

THIS IS THE TRUE WONDER WOMAN.

WRONG. This is the old Wonder Woman. The new one is everything you hate and the majority of people enjoy more. Get over it.

And guess what?

HAHAHA I don't care about your listing of what you enjoyed because you dismissed the parts I said I enjoyed literally in the first line of your response. So basically what you're saying is "your opinion does not matter to me, here is why I'm right." It's opinion, if you don't like what Azzarello's writing, you don't have to read it, but your opinion of the material doesn't automatically invalidate anyone else's. So you can sit there and say "Azzarello doesn't know anything about WW and I clearly know more about the character than he does," which first of all, is pretty sad, but second, you literally layed out a list for "what makes a good WW story." Because when I think good story, I think "Screw anything new or creative, here's the list of bullet points that need to be included." Sorry things aren't following the same pattern you liked, but again, the results of poll speak for themselves. You're pretty alone with regards to this issue.

#528 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

@gokuwarrior said:

THIS IS THE TRUE WONDER WOMAN.

WRONG. This is the old Wonder Woman. The new one is everything you hate and the majority of people enjoy more. Get over it.

And guess what?

HAHAHA I don't care about your listing of what you enjoyed because you dismissed the parts I said I enjoyed literally in the first line of your response. So basically what you're saying is "your opinion does not matter to me, here is why I'm right." It's opinion, if you don't like what Azzarello's writing, you don't have to read it, but your opinion of the material doesn't automatically invalidate anyone else's. So you can sit there and say "Azzarello doesn't know anything about WW and I clearly know more about the character than he does," which first of all, is pretty sad, but second, you literally layed out a list for "what makes a good WW story." Because when I think good story, I think "Screw anything new or creative, here's the list of bullet points that need to be included." Sorry things aren't following the same pattern you liked, but again, the results of poll speak for themselves. You're pretty alone with regards to this issue.

what majority?,hahaha,the run is selling less than previous runs,perez and ruka runs completely humiliate floppelloz's miserable sales,where is the proof that more people enjoy her now?,it's actually all the opposite.

#529 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

LEAVE.

#530 Posted by tomlikesfries (4661 posts) - - Show Bio

Stay. Wonder Woman's been great since the very first issue. Besides, who in the world would replace him?

Online
#531 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

Stay. Wonder Woman's been great since the very first issue. Besides, who in the world would replace him?

he ruined wonder woman for many,many,many long term fans,better leave and he will,next year he will be gone,thank you lord.

#532 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12136 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomlikesfries said:

Stay. Wonder Woman's been great since the very first issue. Besides, who in the world would replace him?

he made the first born beat Orion with a stone pillar...that's as good of writing as Namor making Apocalypse sh*t himself by throwing a table...more than enough reason for Azzy to sit the rest of Wonder Woman out and let someone who know's how to write consistent comic heroes take over.

#533 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomlikesfries said:

Stay. Wonder Woman's been great since the very first issue. Besides, who in the world would replace him?

he made the first born beat Orion with a stone pillar...that's as good of writing as Namor making Apocalypse sh*t himself by throwing a table...more than enough reason for Azzy to sit the rest of Wonder Woman out and let someone who know's how to write consistent comic heroes take over.

he is going to leave by the end of the year,so 3 more issues and it's over,i haven't heard anything about him staying for another year,so let's keep the hope that he'll go.

#534 Posted by HeckTate (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

@gokuwarrior said:

THIS IS THE TRUE WONDER WOMAN.

WRONG. This is the old Wonder Woman. The new one is everything you hate and the majority of people enjoy more. Get over it.

And guess what?

HAHAHA I don't care about your listing of what you enjoyed because you dismissed the parts I said I enjoyed literally in the first line of your response. So basically what you're saying is "your opinion does not matter to me, here is why I'm right." It's opinion, if you don't like what Azzarello's writing, you don't have to read it, but your opinion of the material doesn't automatically invalidate anyone else's. So you can sit there and say "Azzarello doesn't know anything about WW and I clearly know more about the character than he does," which first of all, is pretty sad, but second, you literally layed out a list for "what makes a good WW story." Because when I think good story, I think "Screw anything new or creative, here's the list of bullet points that need to be included." Sorry things aren't following the same pattern you liked, but again, the results of poll speak for themselves. You're pretty alone with regards to this issue.

what majority?,hahaha,the run is selling less than previous runs,perez and ruka runs completely humiliate floppelloz's miserable sales,where is the proof that more people enjoy her now?,it's actually all the opposite.

There should be a "the" in there but still, how are you not on the same page here? I'm referring you literally to this same page. Scroll up, read some numbers, do some basic math (you actually may want a calculator for determining which of those numbers is higher since you couldn't follow the previous instructions to top of page) and if you'd like you can do some follow-up research by reading through the half of this thread that isn't your own comments. I mean, seriously, you've responded to almost everyone who has posted an opinion that doesn't match up to yours, how are you not already aware that people disagree with you? Report back to me with your findings.

#535 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12136 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I hope the new guy doesn't just pick up and go with what Azzy left...I hope he gives Diana more of a super hero-esk story with a mythical undertone instead of an overly drab and underwhelming drama....I mean, Azzy did well as far as story telling goes in my opinion but I liked Superman's fight with Orion much better than the First Born's fight with Orion and that say's a lot about the writer and how he delivers action scenes. Yeah the story was gritty and dark and I liked that, but where was the super hero? It didn't feel like I was looking at Wonder Woman you know? I can look at Batman's New 52 Titles and say "holy marriage counseling Batman" cus I know what a Batman story feels like and I still love them. I can read a Superman comic and although there are a few things here and there I may not be in full agreement with I can see how well done the story, art and action is that i really could care less about a few minor inconsistencies. But Azzarello hasn't been giving me much to work with as of late you know? I don't feel the way I feel about Batman, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, or even f*cking Aquaman with this new Wonder Woman ... every main league member who's got their own issues is being handled in a way that makes me want to read them cus they are being written as ACTION COMICS and not a dark, gritty, overly dramatic, horror flick...maybe Batman, but that's how he's supposed to be written cus he's BATMAN!!!...Azzy may be trying to turn Wonder Woman into a Wonder Batman, she's not been flying fast, flying in general or even moving fast really no thanks to Hermes, no real showings of Herculean strength and durability, barely any showings of Amazonian skill against equally skilled opponents...Azzy hasn't been giving us Action Comics and if the new guy can't fill in the blanks then I fear for New 52 Wonder Woman.

#536 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate:good joke,i'm not the only one on this site that doesn't like azzarello's run,many other users agree with me and comic vine isn't even the only forum on the internet,a lot of people hate this run,and also the fact that it sells less than previous run proves that most fans don't support it,so you go and do the math.

#537 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days:i agree with you,and i don't understand why azz fans here insist so much that most people like it,then why it doesn't sell as much as perez,ruka or simone run?,why is out of the top 20 sellers?,i think numbers prove that the fans of this run isn't that high.

look at what the user "hecktate" is saying to me for example.

#538 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12136 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I'm not even going to try with hecktate .... note even going to try.

#539 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I'm not even going to try with hecktate .... note even going to try.

just to give you one example of how azz fans act all the time,but i'm sure you know that by now,you have had the oportunity to see some posts by azz fan.

#540 Posted by HeckTate (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Someone clearly got frustrated at the assignment and didn't complete it.

But just because I've already spent more time with this than I wanted to, I'm gonna blow your mind here:

Here's you opinion, and I'll even fancy it up for you since you're not the most eloquent person I've debate: "I do not like what Azzarello has done with this title and therefore do not wish to see him continue writing it. Sales for this comic are lower than what sales have been historically, therefore since less people are buying comics now, more people most agree with me than like Azzarello's work."

What you have is correlation, not causation. That means "less people buying comics" is not necessarily caused by "people don't like Azarello's work." Understand that there are a number of factors at play that affect sales, and Azzarello sure as hell isn't being canned from the title because they don't like the sales. Oh and by the way, you know that Azzarello stepping down doesn't mean they're going to go back to before the changes he made. That's there to stay, so you better hope whoever picks up the title does better with the material.

And my opinion: "I like what Azzarello's done more than I did before. Enough that I actually purchase it now." Implying of course that I would like to see him stay. Now at this point, I've completed answering the only question asked for this thread, and was fully ready to leave the discussion when I found myself harassed by some guy who thinks sales numbers prove his OPINION correct. And this despite that at the top of this page, you can see the number of people who have looked at this thread and chosen to also give their opinions to the same question originally asked.

I'm done arguing this with you. I stated my opinion, you stated yours (although you stated it best and most clearly when I did it for you). 68% of the 160 people who have voted here agree with me. Everyone who doesn't buy Wonder Woman agrees with you. Congrats.

#541 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@hecktate said:

@gokuwarrior: Someone clearly got frustrated at the assignment and didn't complete it.

But just because I've already spent more time with this than I wanted to, I'm gonna blow your mind here:

Here's you opinion, and I'll even fancy it up for you since you're not the most eloquent person I've debate: "I do not like what Azzarello has done with this title and therefore do not wish to see him continue writing it. Sales for this comic are lower than what sales have been historically, therefore since less people are buying comics now, more people most agree with me than like Azzarello's work."

What you have is correlation, not causation. That means "less people buying comics" is not necessarily caused by "people don't like Azarello's work." Understand that there are a number of factors at play that affect sales, and Azzarello sure as hell isn't being canned from the title because they don't like the sales. Oh and by the way, you know that Azzarello stepping down doesn't mean they're going to go back to before the changes he made. That's there to stay, so you better hope whoever picks up the title does better with the material.

And my opinion: "I like what Azzarello's done more than I did before. Enough that I actually purchase it now." Implying of course that I would like to see him stay. Now at this point, I've completed answering the only question asked for this thread, and was fully ready to leave the discussion when I found myself harassed by some guy who thinks sales numbers prove his OPINION correct. And this despite that at the top of this page, you can see the number of people who have looked at this thread and chosen to also give their opinions to the same question originally asked.

I'm done arguing this with you. I stated my opinion, you stated yours (although you stated it best and most clearly when I did it for you). 68% of the 160 people who have voted here agree with me. Everyone who doesn't buy Wonder Woman agrees with you. Congrats.

who cares?,comic vine isn't the only forum on the internet,most people hate azzarello,and before azzarello started in 2011 sales for wonder woman were higher,that wasn't long ago,i have hope that the next writter will fix azzaerello's mess.

#542 Posted by PowerWoman (3361 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I hope the new guy doesn't just pick up and go with what Azzy left...I hope he gives Diana more of a super hero-esk story with a mythical undertone instead of an overly drab and underwhelming drama....I mean, Azzy did well as far as story telling goes in my opinion but I liked Superman's fight with Orion much better than the First Born's fight with Orion and that say's a lot about the writer and how he delivers action scenes. Yeah the story was gritty and dark and I liked that, but where was the super hero? It didn't feel like I was looking at Wonder Woman you know? I can look at Batman's New 52 Titles and say "holy marriage counseling Batman" cus I know what a Batman story feels like and I still love them. I can read a Superman comic and although there are a few things here and there I may not be in full agreement with I can see how well done the story, art and action is that i really could care less about a few minor inconsistencies. But Azzarello hasn't been giving me much to work with as of late you know? I don't feel the way I feel about Batman, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, or even f*cking Aquaman with this new Wonder Woman ... every main league member who's got their own issues is being handled in a way that makes me want to read them cus they are being written as ACTION COMICS and not a dark, gritty, overly dramatic, horror flick...maybe Batman, but that's how he's supposed to be written cus he's BATMAN!!!...Azzy may be trying to turn Wonder Woman into a Wonder Batman, she's not been flying fast, flying in general or even moving fast really no thanks to Hermes, no real showings of Herculean strength and durability, barely any showings of Amazonian skill against equally skilled opponents...Azzy hasn't been giving us Action Comics and if the new guy can't fill in the blanks then I fear for New 52 Wonder Woman.

I cant agree any more

Up

#543 Posted by JuliusTakalua (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: my "facts" are that Azzarello has written a completely new mythos that is acceptable because Wonder Woman is still the caring, but now more badass, heroine. My "facts" are my opinions and my analysis is also my opinion. I share them because I feel like us fans could talk about it.

Azzarello does not suck. He has written beautifully for Wonder Woman. I like Perez's run (I just recently read the first 22 issues), Simone's, and rucka's. And none of them have the same depth as Azarello's (maybe except Perez's). Azzarello writes with a sense of mythology. HIS mythos. It's honestly quite refreshing. but the rest are more fantasy oriented style of writing. The stories not really as epic. I'm not saying they're bad, many are very good. Some really great (Perez was great. But I feel the series went downhill and became more of a fantasy from I think 18 -22?). Wonder Woman is darker and that's what I like about this new one. She's badass. Rucka and Simones wrote and awesome series as well but I felt it was lighter and more "mainstream" (?). Azz's run focuses more on Wonder Woman's mythos. It's very dark and sometimes Lovecraftian in the way that the gods are really brutal and sometimes outright weird (Incest, deicide in the family ... etc).
Azz's run is also more poetic and I find with more meaning and symbols. War is tired and old, like in reality. Apollo is the new that has taken over that is old. The themes are more oriented on the story which I like... It's long and it's full of new ideas.
It might not be your taste but I like it. I appreciate the work Azz is doing. It's the only book that's honestly good besides Stranger, Batman, and JLD. it's mature and heavy.

I've also read some old old wonder woman books (I think I said this before). And they suck. After Perez, i want my money back. I can't believe I paid for those in comixology but torrented the Perez run... guess it's karma lol. Some good arcs in the mid 2000s WW but after like issue 600 sth it goes downhill for a bit. Read 50 issues i think. But even before the series went downhill, she was still kind of bland and without much character... Yea she's hot and super awesome but I never really seen any real character in her. Maybe in the first few Perez arcs. But after that she did seem a little bland. THen again, I might have missed a lot since I've read only a handful of them and also a lot of the light-heartedness is not really my cuppa tea.

#544 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio
#545 Posted by Netshyster (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: @gokuwarrior:

@hecktate said:

@gokuwarrior: New Gods as in New Gods . . . Seriously, the fact that you didn't pick up on that leads me to believe you haven't read the majority of this run. No one made her "the female Hercules," they made her an actual person instead of some stupid clay figure brought to life. And apparently you're dreadfully unfamiliar with your Greek Mythology (the real stuff, not the crap DC has tried to pass off as Greek Mythology for decades) because guess what? Hercules is far from Zeus' only bastard kid out there. The dude has slept around with almost every female in Greek Mythology and some males. The majority of the Greek Pantheon are his children, legitimate or not, but sure, let's keep her as an animated clay doll, that's totally more relatable to readers than a dad who was never around. And the whole thing with the Amazons keeping the truth from her to hide her from Hera's wrath fits, because in real Greek Mythology Hera is essentially the goddess of being a massive b!tch. She threw Hephaestus from Mt Olympus when he was a baby, tried to kill Hercules as a baby, and then when Herc was grown up she gave him a list of suicidal tasks that she felt he would be unable to complete. Azzarello's run actually fits the Greek Mythology a whole lot better than any of the material before reboot, and that's with the addition of a conflicting Pantheon in the mix.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, and if you want to think that yours outweighs the 69% of people who weighed in on this issue with the opposite opinions, then you delude yourself as much as you want.

HAHAHA,i don't care about real mythology,being made out of clay is a unique origin,and she never needed a father to have good stopries or be interesting,the change to the amazons is unecesary too.

i don't care if you never found her relatable before,i don't care because it's comic world and not a soup opera/drama TV series,and wonder woman has her own flaws anyway.

who says she hasn't flaws?,she is naive sometimes,she also loses patience and act hastily.

she struggles with her duty as a hero and her beliefs,she struggles to understand how can she try to protect humans from evil when she also has to protec humans from themselves,how she protects humans,when she also has to protect the world from humans,she struggles to understand how she often has to fight the once she wants to protect,because the self-destructive nature of humans confuses her,makes her doubt,and she often questions herself about if what she does is right or wrong,she always suffers because her beliefs in love and peace contradict with the violence,lies and distrust of the man's world,which makes her vision of a better world a failure.

she can't establish a real relationship with someone because she doesn't want them to be hurt because of her and because she is always divided between her duty as a hero,her duty as an amazon and her responsabilities with the gods,she also struggles with the amazons point of view about the man's world,she tries to unite both worlds somehow but fail,to the point that sometimes even the amazons see her as a stranger,and because of that,sometime she wishes to be human,but she never gives up and keeps on trying to make a different,even if she has to sacrifice her own hapiness.

so i think there are many things that people can relate to.

the problem is quite simple,some writers keep trying to reinvent her(like floppelloz),oppose to building upon what has been laid out.

Stop trying to write for an audience and write the character cause she´s special to you and YOU relate to her story,if you don't feel her well don't writte her,but don't mess with her character,oh for god sake floppelloz.

Perez made her a very balanced character respecting her background,and Simone,Luke and Rucka made her fricking badass,Go back to there work, write that character and stop focusing on her and start focusing on her bad guys and her original supporting cast. A general rule of comics if you want old readers to love new stories as well as new ones, unless a story is stupid beyond repair, do not subtract, add to it.

So lets break down Wonder Womans story.

1. Amazons of the ancient world are exploited and frequently attempted to be conquered by men.

I like that intriguing.

2. Hercules is either tricked by Ares or he himself captures the Amazon queen or the whole Amazons. Forcing his barbaric will upon them.

Thats dark, cynical, actually has some very mature and adult themes. I´m not seeing a problem so far.

3. The Amazons escape and as recompense for their loyalty to the gods, they are given an island away from mans world where they can live in peace. They are granted immortality by the Gods.

Makes sense in a fantasy kind of way! I mean hey if people can buy into Lord of the rings, whats the problem here.

4. The Amazons make there home in to a virtues monarchy under the leadership of Queen Hippolyta.

Nice. So now we have an all female society. What might that be an interesting set up to explore gender themes, as well as use this as a platform to critique the notion of Utopia or in fact as mirror world to satirize the world we live in or both. Choose your poison.

5. The Amazons nature as women make them desire a child. Hippolyta is granted a very special child by the Gods. A child gifted with many blessing, so that all the Amazons will come to love her and it may quell their aching for a child.

Again an intelligent person should see lots to work with here.

6. The Amazons raise the child to be virtuous and a great warrior, however she who has never seen mans world is curious about it and doesn´t harbor the same prejudice towards it as her sisters.

Nice character, great bot of conflict. And notice the story isn´t man hating, as this child shows that with out the prejudice of these bad experiences you can be open minded.

7. The child who has now lived for thousands of years now feels inside that she is destined for more than this tiny island, however her mother Hippolyta, whose is prejudice against the world of Man and doesn´t want to lose her only daughter will not let go.

Parental conflict. Something we all can relate to, we can´t let our children be free, we don´t want them to grow up, but we children know the only way we can fulfill our destinies our dreams is to sometimes disobey our parents. RELATABLE.

8. Destiny arrives when secret service pilot Steve Trevor lands on the Island. Now again depending on your interpretation, Diana can take him back to be Ambassador of Mans World, or to discover what forces revealed her Island to the rest of the world or to fight Ares.

Perfect setup iconic, multiple themes to work from, so many angles to take and explore as demonstrated.

9. And we finish Diana wins the right to take Steve back to mans world against her mothers wishes, by winning a tournament proving she is the most capable Amazon warrior; however on entering mans world she finds her self a fish out of water. Not understanding its violence, but also seeing it and its peoples inherent capacity for good. Thus she uses her gifts and warrior skills to fight the forces of evil in the world.

9 Simple steps to great Wonder Woman story.

writters that don't know how to writte her is because they are lazy and don't look at the core of the character,to have a good wonder woman story you need to follow the standard.

1)amazons,the perfect world ruled by women where peace and love predominate,the utopia that the amazons represent,and diana ralizing that even amazon world isn't perfect and foghts with the prejudice that her sisters have against men.

2)the gods and their blessings to wonder woman.

3)diana is a pure soul,compassionate, kind and protective as a mother and also strong,independent,wise and fearless as a warrior.

4)diana's nature,her ability to open the heart of other people,her morals,what she stands for,the way she treats everyone even her villans,without prejudice,and the way her kind heart changes the lives of the people around her,even her villans.

5)diana's supporting cast,vanessa,julia,steve,etta,and how they get involve in diana's mission and try to help her even thought they are just mortals,showing that some humans are willing to go beyond their limits tryng to make a difference in this world,even thought they are vulnerable,they prove to be role models,that you don't even need powers to try to do siomething for this world.

6)diana's villans,they represent wonder woman's antithesis,ares is war,violence and obsessed with having total control. ,cheetah=hate,jealousy,contempt for life and power ambiccion,silver swan=lack of self-esteem,frustration and anger.

dr psycho=small man complex,loneliness,sadness and obsessed with finding someone for him to never be alone,his obsetion with diana.

circe=ego,evil,superiority complex and vindictive.

her villans not only have a lot of power,but they represent wonder woman's antithesis.

THIS IS THE TRUE WONDER WOMAN.

You're going to hate me even more for saying this but I hope this version of Wonder Woman burns a fiery death. Azzarello is boldly redefining the character and what she can be. We're witnessing her in a totally new light here and it's making new people take interest where they haven't done before, and I'm certainly one of them. I think DC's new 'dark-line' of comics is a perfect fit for this incarnation of Diana that Azz has created, where all of the mythic and supernatural elements that are intrinsic to her can be fully utilised without restraint and define her (like it does all of the other characters within the line.)

It's also suitable for the types of story, tone and style Azz has set-up around the character in terms of writing and direction. Let's face it, New-52 Wonder Woman has hardly been a hard-line superhero book has it? and I would argue (as many others I'm going to assume would too) that it's been the better off for it in all aspects. I'd say it's one of the many reasons for the books attraction. Most of the 'dark-line' books are like this, being more horror/fantasy based but just loosely keeping hold of the super-heroics to fall in line with the rest of the DC universe. (This subversive style owing to the fact that a majority of the characters are of Vertigo origin) Azz's run would be right at home here. And there'd be no need to worry about trying to fit in all of her old history, relationships and villains because all of that be damned. She has a new history, new friends and the first (born) of what I'm praying to be many new villains.

I know. I'm a blasphemer right?

#546 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@netshyster:azz ruined her characterm,she has no personality and is weak female ripped ogg hercules,i hope new 52 version disapears forever.

#547 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not following the title but I dug what I've read so far.

Moderator
#548 Posted by jphulk26 (1332 posts) - - Show Bio

leave stay leave stay leave stay clever point leave stay leave stay leave leave leave stay leave stay oh another clever point female hercules feminism stay oh but greek gods leave leave hope Azzerrelo get run over by a bus stay leave stay leave. etc etc etc.

This whole long ass stupid debate in a nutshell.

Do a darker version of the old wonder woman and keep this new one as an else world wonder woman story. very easy solution lets stop with all the bullshit, each side has good reason for liking what they like. we as wonder woman fans deserve our old wonder woman back you new Azz fans don´t deserve your emo wonder woman taken away. debate settled.

#549 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

LEAVE.

#550 Edited by Bruxae (13821 posts) - - Show Bio

Its about time he leaves.