Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) 1 year, 4 months ago

Poll: Who thinks Tim Drake should go back to being just "Robin"? (39 votes)

Yes - "Red Robin" is a place to eat, not a superhero 46%
No - Haters need to adapt with the New 52 or read something else 54%

With Damian out of picture, who thinks this would be a good time to bring Tim Drake back into the spotlight as Batman's partner? There's all this talk like it has to be Harper Row or someone new. Why can't DC just go back to Tim and solidify his position in the new universe? Plus, it would make Batman look less douchey taking on another Robin who's already been out there.

#1 Edited by Dark_Vengeance_ (14596 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither, he needs a new identity.

#2 Posted by The_Tree (7294 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope. I take Tim stepping into the Red Robin name as his graduation from sidekick. I'd take him returning to Robin as a demotion.

#3 Edited by Kal'smahboi (3509 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the name is dumb, but I agree with @the_tree in that I like that he graduated from under Bruce's wing. He's a hero in his own right.

#4 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually don't mind the Red Robin name. And it's cool to see another bird leave the Bat-Nest, metaphorically speaking.

My problem is with his ridiculous outfit. What was wrong with the Ross-designed costume he had originally? His present pseudo-Falcon costume just looks ridiculous....

#5 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I HATE the name Red Robin—no really—I'd much prefer him as just Robin at this point, but honestly, yeah a new name might be best. Gray Ghost is still my fav.

#6 Posted by ccraft (5211 posts) - - Show Bio

No, hes the leader of the TT, like @the_tree said it would be a "demotion" I like Tim where hes at, as a leader, not a sidekick.

I personally don't want another Robin, but I like that Carrie Kelly is in the n52 now. But I don't see her becoming Robin anytime soon. Just with one issue I like C.K a whole lot better than Harper Row.

#7 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13007 posts) - - Show Bio

no. he just needs some alterations to his costume and maybe a new name. preferably Raptor or Renegade

#8 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand why "Robin" has to be demotion. I'll agree that traditionally it's been a protege type role. But I actually think at this point it'd be a great help to Bats to have a more experienced Robin at his side. Tim's got that detective mind which would be a huge asset. The last time Bat's had a Robin of Tim's caliber is just before Dick left to go be Nightwing. And let's be honest, Tim has been mediocre under Lobdell's writing.

#9 Edited by SupBatz (1729 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither. I like that he graduted to Red Robin. But that doesn't mean I enjoy the New 52 version of the character. I'd rather he stick with the name but get a new writer who will restore Tim to his former glory.

#10 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't mind if, after Damian's death and Batman's 'betrayal' in Death of the Family, Tim wants some distance and changes to Red X.

#11 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: He was the leader of the TT as Robin also, so I don't see how him going back to Batman would change this.

I think that Tim should recognize that he needs to be there for Bruce, much like his original origin showed. Bruce has once again lost a Robin, this time his actual son. More than ever now Bruce needs somebody to lean on, why not have it be Tim?

#12 Edited by ccraft (5211 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: Still would be a demotion, Tim doesn't have time to be a partner again hes a full time member/leader of the TT. Its pretty obvious that Batman doesn't want another partner. If you read Batman & RR #19 Batman attacks RR for trying to stop him. Batman only wants to be alone or so he can find ways to bring Damian back.

#13 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5386 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate the name too but he's a grown man with his own identity, why go backwards? Batman doesn't need anymore sidekicks for awhile and if he needs Tim he can call him anytime.

#14 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: I did read B&RR 19, though personally felt that both were written out of character. Their relationship just hasn't been the same since the New 52. Maybe I am nostalgic for the past, but I think that Tim and Bruce could go back to being regular partners and still have Tim keep his independence. He was able to have his own solo title for nearly 20 years, so I don't feel that being partnered up with Bruce again would really be a demotion, so much as a recognition that Bruce needs someone in his life at this point in time and Tim can help

#15 Posted by ccraft (5211 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: Bruce needs more time to be crazy and reckless imo, at least up to issue 30 or 40. But even to then I wouldn't want to see Tim as his sidekick again, maybe it would be cool but idk I can't really come up with another reason why I don't want him as the partner.

It would be a more possibility that C.K becomes the new sidekick, just having that personal connection to Damian is enough reason for Bruce to want her as a partner. I hope shes in the next issue.

#16 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

No. Please, dear sweet Bat-God no.

#17 Edited by ccraft (5211 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate the name too but he's a grown man with his own identity, why go backwards? Batman doesn't need anymore sidekicks for awhile and if he needs Tim he can call him anytime.

What do you think about Carrie Kelly as a possibility as the new Robin?

#18 Edited by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

Complete regression.

@ccraft said:

@wavemotioncannon said:

I hate the name too but he's a grown man with his own identity, why go backwards? Batman doesn't need anymore sidekicks for awhile and if he needs Tim he can call him anytime.

What do you think about Carrie Kelly as a possibility as the new Robin?

That was just a fan tease. Carrie Kelly should not be the New 52 Robin.

#19 Edited by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: I don't like blending the continuities like that. Carrie should still be a baby at this point in Bruce's career, the same goes for people wanting Terry to join as his partner. Rather than introducing a new person as Robin, as it would show that Bruce has learned nothing of child endangerment and it would be impossible to train a new person better than Damian was trained, I think that he should rely on one of the former Robins at least in the short run.

#20 Edited by ccraft (5211 posts) - - Show Bio

@john_valentine I don't think it was just a fan tease, I think Tomasi will be setting something up for her to become the new Robin.

#21 Posted by ccraft (5211 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: Thats not really a valid argument to that she should even exist in the new 52 universe, because in Flashpoint, Flash screwed up the continuity for Earth Prime. So new stories or histories can be changed anyway the writer sees fit. Like having C.K showing up before Bruce is 50 while the mutants attacking Gotham. So anything is possible, heck we could see Terry in the new 52 if Batman is trying to clone his son. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried something like that, Terry and Damian are pretty alike.

#22 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: I did read B&RR 19, though personally felt that both were written out of character. Their relationship just hasn't been the same since the New 52. Maybe I am nostalgic for the past, but I think that Tim and Bruce could go back to being regular partners and still have Tim keep his independence. He was able to have his own solo title for nearly 20 years, so I don't feel that being partnered up with Bruce again would really be a demotion, so much as a recognition that Bruce needs someone in his life at this point in time and Tim can help

My sentiments exactly. I don't know if it's out of character for Bats to be lashing out and angry after losing Damian though. Even if it's an old relationship something as life-altering as losing your son has got to be utterly heart-wrenching. That being said, I agree that it's BS to say being Robin is a demotion. "Robin" is arguably the third most recognized brand among DC properties. It's an honor to be Batman's Robin, and there's nothing that says you have to be a wet-behind the ears newbie in order to hold the position.

That and let's be honest, unless Tim Drake gets a solo book or returns to his former position, I really don't see how he's going to remain relevant in this universe. Teen Titans has been a weak book since the New 52.

@ccraft said:

@r3d_rob1n: Bruce needs more time to be crazy and reckless imo, at least up to issue 30 or 40. But even to then I wouldn't want to see Tim as his sidekick again, maybe it would be cool but idk I can't really come up with another reason why I don't want him as the partner.

It would be a more possibility that C.K becomes the new sidekick, just having that personal connection to Damian is enough reason for Bruce to want her as a partner. I hope shes in the next issue.

I disagree that it needs to go that far. Tomasi is running a 5-issue storyline where Bats deals with his grief and partners with other heroes. After that, I hope they start the return of another Robin. The only way I see the "rogue Batman" story actually working is if they show him disconnect with EVERYTHING in the New 52. No team-ups, no JLA, no guest appearances, nothing. That's the only way I think a "rogue Batman" story would work. Seeing as DC cares too much about its money, that's not a story we're going to get. So I say, bring back the Dynamic Duo. I love Tomasi and Gleason's work and I really don't want their book to go away.

#23 Posted by ccraft (5211 posts) - - Show Bio

@reignmaker: I'm not saying Robin is a bad position, but becoming a leader of a group only to be tossed back in as being a sidekick? That's a demotion of some sorts. Tim is his own person, he has other responsibilities now, and that is being the leader for the Teen Titians. The TT would be nothing without Tim, there's no one that could lead second-in-command if Tim was gone. Tim can't just leave the TT for a little big to be Batman's partner again.

I personally don't believe either Batman or RR were out of character in B&RR #19. Yeah he hit Tim once and threw Batarangs to get him stuck to the wall. More crossing the line than out of character. Heck Bruce punched Dick in the face to knock a tooth in the Court of Owls arc. Which was also crossing the line.

Why not have Dick become Batman's new partner? He fights crime in Gotham, that would make more sense to me imo.

"Tomasi is running a 5-issue storyline where Bats deals with his grief and partners with other heroes." -@reignmaker


I could see a new partner after the "Batman and" arc, like I said most likely Carrie Kelly. And that possibility will grow if she keeps making appearances threw this "Batman and" arc.

#24 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11386 posts) - - Show Bio

I would love if Drake went back to Robin OR if he just became Batmans PARTNER (not sidekick).

But realistically, how is one of the best N52 books going to survive without the other half? Without Robin (or a partner) it's just Batman. We have that already. We need another name to finish the title and if it becomes just a rotator book then barely any character develop would come of it. So I think either give him a new partner or cancel the book eventually.

#25 Posted by ME24601 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mind the name, but I'd love to get Tim out of the completely awful Teen Titans series that he's stuck in at the moment.

#26 Posted by mpierce2690 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

I always thought that Tim should have been just becoming Robin the New 52, but DC loves Morrison too much and fucked up the continuity to keep Damian without sacrificing any of the other Robins (only to have him kill Damian in less than two years).

Personally, if you're not going to just be beginning his career, Tim is too good to be someone's sidekick. He shouldn't be Robin, though the Red Robin name does kind of suck.

#27 Edited by majidjaved (16 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO tim has earned a place as more than just a sick kick so i dont want him to become robin again maybe name change

#28 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@mpierce2690: I'd ask you to please watch the language! Thank you! :)

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#29 Edited by UrbanChill (222 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont like the way you worded the poll option so ill choose not to vote but i dont think he should regress back to his robin role

#30 Edited by JulieDC (927 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, it would put a spin on the idea of going back to being Robin. I read Tim Drake's original origin story and I recall him suggesting that Nightwing return to being Robin but he refused. It would certainly be interesting if they decided to do that with Tim. What would it be like if a former Robin became Robin again? It also wouldn't be a bad idea when you consider that there seems to be too many former Robins to the point that no one seems to know what to do with all of them anymore.

But at the same time, it is kind of a cop out because to put him back into the Robin position would be because he has been greatly underutilized and poorly written since the reboot and that is not a solution to the problem. Tim was best written as Robin and putting him back into that position certainly would fix the current problem of making him relevant but Tim can't be Robin forever. I'd much rather see him get his own title again and get a writer that actually has immense respect for the character and make Red Robin relevant to the New 52. Right now, his character is one step above all those missing characters like Wally West and Stephanie Brown.

I don't really care much for the name one way or another, I just would like to see some consistency and would like to see his character become more established and connected to the rest of the bat-fam.

Really this all just comes down to writing. Its amazing how all it takes is good writing and questions like this wouldn't even have to be asked. Scott Lobdell wasn't a particularly horrible writer for Superboy or Red Hood but with Teen Titans, its just terrible. As much as I would love to see Tim become Robin again, I don't mind him being Red Robin but he needs his own solo and he needs a writer that understands his character. I wish they could get Chuck Dixon back because he really liberated the Robin character from being just a sidekick.

#31 Posted by Persayal (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it weird that I'm really only hoping they won't bring another Robin into the picture?

I mean, Damien held such promise and I'm really not down with him being out of the picture. Not because I liked him so much (I did, but I prefer Tim) but because him and Bruce were a really awesome dynamic that actually brought a little motion into the whole Batman-story.

Then again ... even though I'm not totally in love with the name Red Robin (what's it with that color people?), I think it's important that Tim has his own name + own storylines. Him going back to being Robin - although I personally would totally love it - wouldn't feel right. If Damien is really not coming back, then there needs to be another solution. Tim Drake was an awesome Robin and I loved him in that sense a lot (not as much as Dick, but a very close second) I don't think he should go back.

Besides, I'm still sitting here and waiting for this whole "The Death of the Family"-situation to be solved. Why is the bat-family pissed at Batman? I don't get it. I'm kinda hoping that with Damien's death, they will all get a lot close to Bruce and not split apart again :(

Also ... I keep wondering if there even should be a new (or old) Robin at all. Given that now we've had three dead Robins ... yeah, I get that we are supposed to kind of ignore pre-The New 52-stuff but come on! Who does that?

#32 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13007 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@reignmaker: I'm not saying Robin is a bad position, but becoming a leader of a group only to be tossed back in as being a sidekick? That's a demotion of some sorts. Tim is his own person, he has other responsibilities now, and that is being the leader for the Teen Titians. The TT would be nothing without Tim, there's no one that could lead second-in-command if Tim was gone. Tim can't just leave the TT for a little big to be Batman's partner again.

I personally don't believe either Batman or RR were out of character in B&RR #19. Yeah he hit Tim once and threw Batarangs to get him stuck to the wall. More crossing the line than out of character. Heck Bruce punched Dick in the face to knock a tooth in the Court of Owls arc. Which was also crossing the line.

Why not have Dick become Batman's new partner? He fights crime in Gotham, that would make more sense to me imo.

"Tomasi is running a 5-issue storyline where Bats deals with his grief and partners with other heroes." -@reignmaker

I could see a new partner after the "Batman and" arc, like I said most likely Carrie Kelly. And that possibility will grow if she keeps making appearances threw this "Batman and" arc.

leading a group has nothing to do with it whatsoever.Tim hs led the Titans as both Robin and Red Robin just like Dick did as Robin and Nightwing. i think Tim should not return to the Robin mantle but not for that reason.

#33 Posted by The Stegman (24039 posts) - - Show Bio

I still don't get how Batman can go through four side kicks, Robin or otherwise, in roughly 6 years of being active.

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#34 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11386 posts) - - Show Bio

I still don't get how Batman can go through four side kicks, Robin or otherwise, in roughly 6 years of being active.

They were Robin for like 6 months each (I think Dick said he was just an intern as Robin) and he moves on quickly (Jason Todd cough cough). Doesn't make it any better though.

#35 Posted by nappystr8 (1088 posts) - - Show Bio

I definitely don't want him going back to being just Robin. He spent his time as that character and he moved on and matured, in the same way Dick Grayson became Nightwing. It's stupid that DC retconned Tim to never have been a Robin, but to change him back to Robin now would not fix anything. If any name change occurs I would like it to be one that distances him even further from the Robin namesake. I always thought Talon might work well, but that name is clearly no longer on the table for obvious reasons.

#36 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33091 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

I HATE the name Red Robin—no really—I'd much prefer him as just Robin at this point, but honestly, yeah a new name might be best. Gray Ghost is still my fav.

I like the name Gray Ghost, if he chose that name what do you think his costume would be like?

#37 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd want something similar thematically to the Gray Ghost from BTAS, but updated for modern sensibilities. So instead of this Shadow-esque outfit:

It'd be the goggles, but with a modern baseball cap and, I dunno, a hoody. Shades of gray and black with white and blue highlights. For the logo, he could go without one, or he could do some sort of white or blue silhouette of a Weimaraner, as they're nicknamed "gray ghost".

I doubt the dog was what the name was going for, but I think it'd be neat. Not too many dog-themed heroes in DC. Oh, and I'd want his staff back.