Thor #8

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gmanfromheck

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Edited By gmanfromheck

The Good

There's nothing like a good mystery. In comics, when we have a main character or villain with a secret identity that not even the readers know, it adds to the suspense of the storytelling. We've been wondering since last October who could be wielding the power of Thor. Jason Aaron has crafted a nice mystery. There's been some clues and red herrings to keep us guessing. It's likely you may have heard who the new Thor is before you had a chance to read this issue. That's the nature of these sort of things with the occasional leaks and people trying to spoil things. Marvel decided to put it out there before it was released through other means. If you want to know and haven't heard yet, you can read about HERE.

The reveal of the identity isn't the only focus of this issue. With Odin's outrage at not knowing the identity, he unleashed the Destroyer upon the new Thor to try to retrieve Mjolnir and to find out. Odinson (the former Thor) and his mother decided to go against the All Father and brought some back up--all the women Odinson suspected as being this new Thor. It's a pretty spectacular battle, courtesy of Russell Dauterman's art and Matthew Wilson's colors.

The battle is a great way to introduce this new Thor to more of the Marvel Universe characters. We've already seen a few different stories with Thor part of the Avengers but we haven't seen that moment happen within these pages. There will be some consequences as well with Odinson and Freya going against Odin. And there's also the matter of whether or not Odinson finds out Thor's identity or if it's just for us readers.

The Bad

This was a good issue but it felt like it was mainly about filling up some pages with some great fight scenes. It would have been interesting (but not necessary) to see how Odinson convinced these particular women to join in this fight. I suppose there weren't any other characters or members of teams they may be on that were around and Odinson felt it important to only bring these individuals along.

I'm okay with the reveal. I'm curious to see how it plays out. I love the misdirect in recent issues. It is unfortunate I found out before being able to read this issue but, again, that's understandable and doesn't impact the rating of this issue. Although, it would likely have made the reveal more suspenseful.

The Verdict

The answer is finally out but the story is not over yet. Jason Aaron has carefully laid out the groundwork for this mystery. There may have been clues and signs along with some misdirects but now readers can digest the information for themselves. There is still more to discover with this character in this role. There will be some consequences from the actions in this issue and now we have to patiently wait for the next issue to see where things go from here. Russell Dauterman's art and Mathew Wilson's colors are fantastic. There is a lot of fighting and it looks great but it felt like it was mainly to fill some time until we get to the moment between the new Thor and Odinson. Regardless, the more I read of this new Thor, the more fascinated I become. Now with the revelation out of the way, we can focus on what this all means and where Jason Aaron is going to take the story next. This book is a blast to read.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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Could someone please tell me how they beat the destroyer and if Odin and Odinson find out her identity? I won't be able to get to my comic store for a few days. Use spoiler tags or a PM

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Asgaard

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#3  Edited By Asgaard

Don't understand how supposedly unbiased reviews can say this was a nice mystery, when since issue 2 and female Thor (now Thordis) earthling thoughts she only could be Jane or Roz, and Roz become to obvious for professional writing...

Also very original...

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Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

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Called it.

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Mark_Stephen

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Not bad, but I'm wondering how she is worthy and Thor isn't and how someone as un-worthy as Odin ever put the enchantment on the hammer in the first place.

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StarBrand1

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cerial442

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I like a good mystery as well, but this was too drawn out.

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spacemanspiff85

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I like Aaron's writing, but so much of these kinds of stories are starting to feel too contrived to me. Only women show up to help Odinson (I really hate that he's going by that now) stop the Destroyer? And they all refer to her as Thor, and the previous one as Odinson? And nobody's concerned or bothered by her having the hammer now and now him? I don't mind the idea of a female "Thor", but to me it's coming off as less a natural part of the story and seems more like they're just changing the story and characters to fit where they wanted it to go.

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unbreakable_fs4

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#11  Edited By unbreakable_fs4

@jayc1324 said:

Could someone please tell me how they beat the destroyer and if Odin and Odinson find out her identity? I won't be able to get to my comic store for a few days. Use spoiler tags or a PM

They don't beat the Destroyer. The only person actually able to even do significant harm to it was Thor (Odinson), after swinging Jarnbjorn at its shoulder. The fight ended because Odin called the Destroyer back to Asgard.

As for Thor (Odinson) and finding out the other Thor's identity, he unfortunately never finds out. After the fight he talks with her claiming to know who she is. He concludes her to be Roz, but all of a sudden Roz shows up and he becomes silent. He gives up on the list and tears it apart.

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CaptainHoopla

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@spacemanspiff85: you just summed up why so many people have been angry about this for the last nine months.

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gmanfromheck

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#13  Edited By gmanfromheck

I like Aaron's writing, but so much of these kinds of stories are starting to feel too contrived to me. Only women show up to help Odinson (I really hate that he's going by that now) stop the Destroyer?

I had concern with that last time. It was supposed to be the names on the list of suspects he put together. He brought them to this fight. By getting them all there, it eliminated them from the list. That was the problem I had here but I could see him using this logic.

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deactivated-611928878d365

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spacemanspiff85

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#15  Edited By spacemanspiff85

@g_man: That made sense, but I didn't really see why it had to only be the names on the list. It was such a big threat, and even all of them together didn't do much against the Destroyer, so you'd think he'd want to get everyone else available to help, in addition to the names on the list.

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DaymarePrime

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Disappointed that all but the final bow out of the Destroyer was in the preview. I was looking forward to a huge Tumblr-tastic battle that really did not occur.

If Willow is to be believed from her now deleted posts and all series are rebooting at issue 1 after the SW event, this is effectively the final issue of the current run which makes nothing, save for her identity, resolved.

Art was great (as always), and I really hope he returns to the book when it launches...I do think he is a main draw for title at the moment and if he is not the visual creator behind it after it comes back I do think the title will suffer.

Personally I am now done with the title but I do think there is enough for those who have jumped on due to the new lead and whatever their reasons may be for the title and the character to have their story continue. I just wish it did not have to be at the expense of OG Thor.

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gmanfromheck

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@spacemanspiff85: I agree. I thought it'd be tricky to go to the Avengers' place and say, "I just need you and you to come. Dudes, you can stay here." But it was just a minor problem for me. Maybe he figured they didn't need more help because he's a little arrogant.

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spacemanspiff85

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@g_man: It's not a huge problem for me, it just kind of ties into the main problem I've had with the new run. In the previous run, everything seemed to flow a lot more naturally. So far this storyline's seemed a lot more artificial and constructed primarily to show the readers "Hey, everyone accepts the new Thor as awesome and so should you". Which it was pretty much always going to be that way, it just seems a lot more obvious and transparent to me. I think the new Ms. Marvel and Captain America, and Miles Morales, were handled a lot better.

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DaymarePrime

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I know there is a lot being made regarding the "it is killing me" comment also. This could actually be read in one of two ways. Based on the back and forth and the emoting of the Thor and Jane during their interaction, I actually think it reads more like it is breaking her heart to keep her identity secret from someone she loves and is in pain due to her currently wielding what is in essence an extension of himself. I know she is on the floor and groping her gown, but, that is a lot of emotion to deal with, especially after a big battle and she is ill regardless. With the way the writing has been up to this point Aaron could easily turn this around to point in this direction and not literally that her becoming Thor is causing her pain.

If this were the case and it is progressing this fast for her, she would not be around much longer which we know is not he case. With this Thor now being "banned" from Asgard she is not going to be able to stay in the form permanently either without blowing her cover as to why Jane is no longer getting her treatment.

So many plot holes, so many options to fill any of them with whichever peg they feel.

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Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

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Asgaard

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#22  Edited By Asgaard

@unbreakable_fs4 said:
@jayc1324 said:

Could someone please tell me how they beat the destroyer and if Odin and Odinson find out her identity? I won't be able to get to my comic store for a few days. Use spoiler tags or a PM

They don't beat the Destroyer. The only person actually able to even do significant harm to it was Thor (Odinson), after swinging Jarnbjorn at its shoulder. The fight ended because Odin called the Destroyer back to Asgard.

As for Thor (Odinson) and finding out the other Thor's identity, he unfortunately never finds out. After the fight he talks with her claiming to know who she is. He concludes her to be Roz, but all of a sudden Roz shows up and he becomes silent. He gives up on the list and tears it apart.

The mystery was incredible weak, the execution of the new direction was terrible, in your words the battle with the Destroyer was pointless, exactly what Aaron build in this book? Didn't he just prove that original Thor fans were right all the time when call this creative decisions a PR stunt that didn't justify the end of the much superior TGOT?

@daymareprime:

Loki and Angela had to fool Heimdall, to enter and escape from Asgard and the Asgardians, and in Aaron's writing? Didn't read this issue and i could be wrong but:

Scenario 1 Heimdall knows who she is, but didn't do anything to stop the Destroyer battle, not believable...

Scenario 2 Heimdall doesn't know who is female Thor even if she enters and leave Asgard constantly, which would be another huge plot hole...

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Cream_God

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Any news when the PR stunt is over?

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unbreakable_fs4

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@asgaard: Pretty much. His statement from the article yesterday proves what you're saying to be 100% correct. It's hilarious that he was in denial in the early stages of the nonsense that was to come. Even going as far as to insult the original fans that was against the move.

Oh well, whatever respect I had for him has been long gone.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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unbreakable_fs4

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cerial442

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You weren't allowed to say anything negative about the new Thor when it started. You either loved the change, or were labeled a sexist. But honestly the writing wasn't all that great. This was a four issue story stretched out to 8 issues.

Aaron's writing has always been hit or miss with me. His Hulk run was unreadable. Wolverine and the X-Men started off great then started getting worse and worse. Thor: GOT started off amazingly for the first two arcs. Then never got above "pretty good". The same with this new series. Star Wars so far has been just one big fight.

The character change in Thor wasn't a natural change either, because Captain America was switched out at the same time. It was a Marvel decision (just guessing), so they can be brought back at the same time. It's trying to capture the Superior Spider-Man lightening twice. It doesn't work.

The question now is, how many people will stick around this fall when the book returns? The Red Hulk mystery was a lot more interesting, but everyone dropped off that book when the mystery ended (a mystery that also lasted too long). Will the same happen to Thor?

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SlimJames

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All in all, I thought this story arc was pretty fun- though I'm disappointed that Roz Solomon ended up being a red herring. I didn't care about Thor before T:GOT (and, honestly, I'm still not really a fan of the character) but I appreciate that Aaron has written something that I've found consistently entertaining.

I'm curious to see if this book is going to be able to carry any kind of momentum in the wake of Secret Wars.

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wowlock

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As it is pretty much confirmed in the yesterday's article it was a PR stunt and a poorly executed , insulting your current fans and LABELING THEM as SEXIST because they called you out on your BS. Drawn out ''mystery'' that is so weak with no payoff. And the worse part is, they are still going in on it with and after Secret Wars.

If they didn't go ''all who didn't like the change are sexists'' route, it might've been at least respectable for them to stick to their guns. But now? after iti s pretty much confirmed a PR stunt, I can't any shed of respect to give after so many insults to LEGITIMATE concerns and sub-par writing.

I hope this will break their hubris and it will show others who defend them without thinking that ''Oh , maybe they have a point ''.

With the real Thor gone ( because F Beyonders. ) I feel like Thor is pretty much over for me. Maybe I will follow Lady Sif and such but I will not follow THIS Thordis.

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Kokemabb200

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#30  Edited By Kokemabb200

@wowlock said:

As it is pretty much confirmed in the yesterday's article it was a PR stunt and a poorly executed , insulting your current fans and LABELING THEM as SEXIST because they called you out on your BS. Drawn out ''mystery'' that is so weak with no payoff. And the worse part is, they are still going in on it with and after Secret Wars.

If they didn't go ''all who didn't like the change are sexists'' route, it might've been at least respectable for them to stick to their guns. But now? after iti s pretty much confirmed a PR stunt, I can't any shed of respect to give after so many insults to LEGITIMATE concerns and sub-par writing.

I hope this will break their hubris and it will show others who defend them without thinking that ''Oh , maybe they have a point ''.

With the real Thor gone ( because F Beyonders. ) I feel like Thor is pretty much over for me. Maybe I will follow Lady Sif and such but I will not follow THIS Thordis.

I feel the same. I don't care much when a character changes (ie when Cap/Wally West became black) but it was dumb for them (and many people who don't even read comics) to take a high and mighty approach with the new Thor.

Especially as you pointed out, it was completely a PR stunt. There was no reason or planning behind it. I typically love Jason Aaron but but definitely felt like he put more emphasis on making a pro-feminist book than actually telling a good story.

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Kokemabb200

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#31  Edited By Kokemabb200

I went into this run with a very open mind, but it left a horrible feeling in my gut. I wasn't against Thor changing sex but the way this was handled was very poor. ESPECIALLY the argument for why female Thor was needed.

I loved the Elektra run and really enjoyed the Black Widow books that were coming out because those just had women being badass and doing badass things, and shined a light on the skill and well developed character of the female heroes, it didn't bluster about with a facade of feminism like "Thor" when in truth it was an ill-conceived PR ploy.

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Makentsu

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@asgaard: Here are my thoughts on the whole run of fem-Thor fiasco :

Fem-Thor herself:

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The Mystery:

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The Story:

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The Characters or Caricatures portrayals:

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The Writer Himself:

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So all in all did not like it But hey at least we know who Thordite is:

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GalacticFork

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#33  Edited By GalacticFork

@makentsu: Yeah... you lost me at your first pics... She lives on Asgardia. Asgardia is in space. That part of the moon is a green spot. In issue 1 a huuuuge collection of people from Asgardia were in the green spot standing around Thor as he cried and begged Mjolnir to be his friend again. Jane was probably there too. So yeah... If you're going to post lots of gifs, then you might want to read the story. It'll save you time.

@kokemabb200: You know, every bit of comic writing is a PR stunt. It's all trying to get readers, all trying to get attention and money for the publishers. So why is trying attempting to draw attention to a book to get more readers suddenly bad? And how was "the argument for why female Thor was needed" executed poorly?

@wowlock: There is a difference between labeling all detractors sexist and calling out the ones that are. You do know there were a lot of actual sexist remarks right? Are you denying those exist? Why can't those people be called out?

Anyway! I've been on internet lockdown for the past few days to avoid spoilers. I figured they'd come, but I didn't think Marvel would do it themselves. That said, this book was enjoyable. I thought Odin's turn around was rather abrupt, but I liked it was Freyja that made him change his mind.

I thought the way that Roz kicked herself out the running was funny. Nice timing, but it did ruin the moment. I felt Jane mighta revealed herself to him. But good thing she didn't though, Odinson is the last person she should tell that she's the new Thor, especially now that it's confirmed it's making her cancer worse.

As for the series in general. I wish he didn't point sooo freaking hard at Roz, it made her not at all likely. But, considering people were still convinced it was Roz during the last issue, it seemed to trick a bunch of people, so that's something. Showing the character is human early on did lower the possibilities and let's face it, most established characters had their own persona, so Black Widow (for example) becoming Thor was highly unlikely, and suddenly having a huge cast women as side characters just to up possibilities would have been really manufactured. But I must say I'm glad it wasn't Roz, a random new character would have cheapened it a bit for me. Someone as old and longstanding as Jane is great.

But I called Jane really early, so for me the main draw was how the characters reacted to the mystery. So you had Odinson using it as a distraction to take his mind off his own current suckitude, Freyja using her as an inspiration and a masthead for her conflicts against Odin, and Odin pissed that his hammer enchantment has "grown beyond him" and using Thor as the focal point for his dissatisfaction regarding the obedience that seems to be lacking since his return.

Now that we know she's Jane and her being in the main cast of Secret Wars, when the new Marvel universe is made, she'll be able to pick up with Malekith and Roxxon. This book also leads to a possible team up between Thor and Roz (very amusing to me). It also kinda hindered my prediction of an Asgardian Civil War, with Odin chilling out there in the end. I would be interested to see him accepting the new Thor in the future, at least as a temporary solution during upcoming war with Malekith and his cohorts.

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Makentsu

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@galacticfork: So she just manages to walk pass all those doctors watching over her while she's sick without being noticed and then return without being noticed with no real problem, boy those asgardian doctors must really suck at their jobs and for that manner it doesn't strike anyone odd at all that she has to stress her already weak body by going back and forth to get Mjolnir from that spot from the moon considering we see her throw the damn hammer back onto the moon or at least somewhere in space(unless she calls the hammer back to her). Also she won't accept any magical help to cure her cancer because as she stated magic always has repercussions to it but she'll take the enchanted hammer that pretty much cures her for as long as she holds it but when she lets go it basically brings her closer to shaking hands with uncle Ben and Bruce Wayne's parents.

PS,I have been reading the story that's how I was able to find so many problems with it.

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antithetical

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GalacticFork

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#36  Edited By GalacticFork

@antithetical: HA! yeah. Wow. thanks. I knew it was <color><word for section of space>. At least I didn't say "white zone." That's for loading and unloading of passengers...

@makentsu said:

@galacticfork: So she just manages to walk pass all those doctors watching over her while she's sick without being noticed and then return without being noticed with no real problem, boy those asgardian doctors must really suck at their jobs and for that manner it doesn't strike anyone odd at all that she has to stress her already weak body by going back and forth to get Mjolnir from that spot from the moon considering we see her throw the damn hammer back onto the moon or at least somewhere in space(unless she calls the hammer back to her). Also she won't accept any magical help to cure her cancer because as she stated magic always has repercussions to it but she'll take the enchanted hammer that pretty much cures her for as long as she holds it but when she lets go it basically brings her closer to shaking hands with uncle Ben and Bruce Wayne's parents.

PS,I have been reading the story that's how I was able to find so many problems with it.

You think they're around her 24 hours a day? They probably don't spend a whole lot of time with her. And yeah most likely, she can summon the hammer to her... But yes, she doesn't like the magic of the gods, and knows it has repercussions... She knew that when she picked up the hammer. And she was right because it's killing her. She sees that the need for someone wielding Mjolnir is greater than her own personal wishes. She sees that the need for a Mjolnir wielder is greater than her own freaking health. She is saving people's lives as it kills her because she is freaking worthy! Dude. Seriously.

PS: Then why did you post 4 images asking why she was in space??

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Makentsu

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#37  Edited By Makentsu

@galacticfork: I admit they most likely don't watch over her 24hrs even though they should..but the thing you just said about how Jane can be worthy can also apply to the asgardians themselves especially someone like Sif who would gladly still use mjolnir to defend the earth in Thor's place even if it meant that it was killing them and yet none of them could lift the mjolnir, hell even every thing she says about the god that the earth needs applies still to Thor Himself and just about every superhero on earth.

PSS,I only uploaded those for fun because a lot of people were wondering how she got into space

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GalacticFork

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#38  Edited By GalacticFork

@makentsu: Why should they? She's refusing the treatment they specialize in, and she jaunts off to earth for her cancer treatments. She is the one with knowledge of human medicine. So it's unlikely they're around unless there is an immediate problem (like collapsing during a congressional session). And I wasn't saying she was worthy because of those things, I was saying it was part of her worthiness. There is obviously more to it.

PSS well, since you read the books and say you knew, why not just tell them why instead? Why post gifs like that as if you didn't know? It's spelled out clearly in both book 1 of this run and throughout God of Thunder. Heck, one of the books even showed Roz going to that place on the moon.

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Makentsu

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#39  Edited By Makentsu

@galacticfork: Again it was for fun I was just mimicking alot of people who were bringing up the whole how did she get to the moon question.

And you're right we will have to wait and see what else made her worthy if it's ever shown.

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GalacticFork

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#40  Edited By GalacticFork

@makentsu: Well, I didn't really mean it like that. "Worthiness" is kinda a vague thing. Before whatever of the Watcher's knowledge fury told Odinson, what made him worthy over all the other heroes (minus those that have lifted it)? It's obviously more than just heroism. And all we know is that Mjolnir called to her now. We don't know how long she's been worthy, and she is capable of holding an older Mjolnir (assuming Ultron Forever isn't simply a what if and actually is a branched timeline), so her worthiness isn't reliant on whatever weirdness that's going on with Mjolnir's enchantment currently. It just means the current Mjolnir wants her as its wielder right now. I doubt we'll ever get a clear criteria for "worthiness." I was merely pointing out that those aspects weren't examples of bad writing but great examples of Jane's awesomeness.

It seemed like all those were your reaction, so those gifs in your post weren't what you thought? OK.

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Supersmoothers

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I am so done with this book

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Asgaard

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#42  Edited By Asgaard

@galacticfork:

Again..

Scenario 1 Heimdall knows who she is, but didn't do anything to stop the Destroyer battle, not believable Odin knows Jane and her heath condition she is in Asgard and he listens to Heimdall, yes Freyja didn't convince Odin to stop but she didn't knew that Thordis is Jane.

Scenario 2 Heimdall doesn't know who is female Thor even if she enters and leave Asgard constantly, Heimdall is only able to see everything in Loki and Angela books?In Aaron's writing he can't see who enters Asgard?

He just has to report everything to his king Odin he is not above him not even in knowledge, yes Odin never was this stupid humanized character that Aaron is writing. (Scan from Fraction Run)

No Caption Provided

If Jane accepted Asgard's magic help (before become Thordis) like she accepted in the past, she could continue to do good and help her patients like she always did, let me remind you again that Odin made her Goddess and Sif also save Jane with her life force, Sif gave up her life for Jane, and Jane accepted that scenarios, and isn't that an enchanted/Magical hammer? Which gives her powers? Her motivations are contradictory, and being worthy has to be more than fight disease, in that scenario how many could be worthy in Midgard? The worthy definition was solidified in the canon, and it's not only about being pure and heroic has to do with the Asgardian belief systems that are different from the human beliefs, Cap only was worthy in battle because Asgardian warrior spirit and honor is required to be worthy, Odin made the enchantment not Aaron and his human writing/perspective of Asgard, and just look at the other characters that were worthy in the past no one like Jane... [Blake doesn't count only the Mares gave him his own life (dreaming in Fraction Run) ]. Jane current disease can fit other Human superheros and build great stories with that plot but has nothing to do with Thor and Asgard, doesn't fit...

@makentsu:

Only reading Angela and Loki, is really Thordis in the main plot/cast of Secret Wars? That would be good, because Aaron also said ultimate Thor will be the lead of Thors (really hope everything Aaron writes flops), he doesn't respect Thor fan base, but the large majority of Thor fan base already dislike this current creative decisions, but now this new direction was clearly proven to everyone to be a cheap Pr stunt, that didn't justify in any moment the end of TGOT, even Aaron admitted that in the New York Times interview...Link

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#43  Edited By Makentsu

@asgaard: In the first issue of Secret Wars she was one of the few who were rescued so yeah I believe she is apart of the main cast....really after all this hype about Thordis she's once again a secondary character...I mean first she's a secondary token character in her own book ,(she doesn't become interesting until her reveal and even then that's a stretch),a clone of the original in every other book except Thor annual 1, and now she's a secondary or side-kick character in Thor-verse poor girl can't catch a break.

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eamon542000

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Art was nice here and I'm hoping now that the big reveal is done with the story can progress. Love what the Frost Giants and Dark Elves are doing here. Love Antrio Dagger as a new villian and I'm enjoying Odin and Cul being back. A lot of moving pieces and I'm sure Aaron will have them payoff

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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According to Jason Aaron this story was basically just a prologue. So if that's true then I guess its a decent prologue but as a standalone story its not good at all. And since we won't be coming back to this series until after Thors and secret war, it's basically a standalone story at this point. Unless this plot with Odin and Malekith and Cul actually continues in Thors, but that seems unlikely. It seems like its going to just be all the previous "Thors" going around doing random stuff.

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GalacticFork

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#47  Edited By GalacticFork

@asgaard said:

@galacticfork:

Again..

Scenario 1 Heimdall knows who she is, but didn't do anything to stop the Destroyer battle, not believable Odin knows Jane and her heath condition she is in Asgard and he listens to Heimdall, yes Freyja didn't convince Odin to stop but she didn't knew that Thordis is Jane.

Scenario 2 Heimdall doesn't know who is female Thor even if she enters and leave Asgard constantly, Heimdall is only able to see everything in Loki and Angela books?In Aaron's writing he can't see who enters Asgard?

He just has to report everything to his king Odin he is not above him not even in knowledge, yes Odin never was this stupid humanized character that Aaron is writing. (Scan from Fraction Run)

Scenario 1: Actually this is a fair point. One could say because it wasn't actually a threat to Asgardia and Odin being the one acting. There are possible responses, but it's all conjecture and would require Heimdall to be more empathetic towards Jane and others...

Scenario 2: Though I liked to think he did know, this one seems more likely. He doesn't see everything. He can see anything. The first emplies seeing it all the time. The second means he has to actively looks. Yes, he probably knew Thor was flying to Asgardia, but as she's not a threat he'd have ignored her and looked elsewhere. And the first time she picked up the Hammer, she could have been on the Moon with everybody else, and waited for them all to return before picking up Mjolnir. I doubt Heimdall did a head count when people went back to Asgardia. After that she could most likely summon the Hammer at will (or else tossing the hammer away was a horrible idea).

I've said this a while back, "all seeing" characters suck. There are always things that will be broken when they're involved. For example, since you seemed to think Angela was infallible, how didn't he know Sera was Malekith. He should have been actively keeping tabs on Malekith, even before the kidnapping. He being an actual threat to Asgardia. Did he just conveniently not look at Malekith's doings whenever he was masquerading as her? Even during the chase, was he still not checking on threats to the Asgard? Just leaving everything completely unwatched? And don't get me started on the dress... Is it supposed to make the wearer and everyone one around them invisible to him? Is that why he didn't just look for Sera or the baby? And if he checked on Malekith during that time, he shoulda freaked out that Malekith is somehow way off his radar, too

So there must always be a little leeway when "all seeing" characters are involved.

Note: I added spoilers because I remembered I was spoiling the latest issue. Heh.

@asgaard said:

If Jane accepted Asgard's magic help (before become Thordis) like she accepted in the past, she could continue to do good and help her patients like she always did, 1) let me remind you again that Odin made her Goddess and 2)Sif also save Jane with her life force, Sif gave up her life for Jane, and Jane accepted that scenarios, 3)and isn't that an enchanted/Magical hammer? Which gives her powers? Her motivations are contradictory, 4)and being worthy has to be more than fight disease, in that scenario how many could be worthy in Midgard? The worthy definition was solidified in the canon, and it's not only about being pure and heroic has to do with the Asgardian belief systems that are different from the human beliefs, 5) Cap only was worthy in battle because Asgardian warrior spirit and honor is required to be worthy, 6) Odin made the enchantment not Aaron and his human writing/perspective of Asgard, 7) and just look at the other characters that were worthy in the past no one like Jane... [Blake doesn't count only the Mares gave him his own life (dreaming in Fraction Run) ]. Jane current disease can fit other Human superheros and build great stories with that plot but has nothing to do with Thor and Asgard, doesn't fit...

1) During which he attacked her with darkness, she refused the godhood and Odin wiped her memory of the ordeal...

2) Which later resulted in Jane being trapped in a parallel dimenion.

3) Let me quote myself from above... " But yes, she doesn't like the magic of the gods, and knows it has repercussions... She knew that when she picked up the hammer. And she was right because it's killing her. She sees that the need for someone wielding Mjolnir is greater than her own personal wishes. She sees that the need for a Mjolnir wielder is greater than her own freaking health."

4) uh What?

5) Citation needed.

6) Uhhh I'm pretty sure Stan Lee made the enchantment...

7) Oh, please clarify this.

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Asgaard

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#48  Edited By Asgaard

@galacticfork:

Angela last issue had a real twist, that no one could predict, i never could guess that Sera was... Just because you read Angela last issue, i will try not be so harsh on my post, and don't be offended by the Thordis name, in my perceptive fits the new character, but wait... she also toss the hammer away from Asgard and Heimdall didn't saw that? Sera never entered in Asgardia besides when she was captured by Thor in the last issue, (she was captured no real threat) this are different situations, if you think Thordis entering and leaving Asgard all the time without Heimdall notice is acceptable...OK but don't forget about what is Heimdall purpose for Asgard and that he has to report to Odin to make sure Asgard's security isn't compromised... I do agree that "all seeing" characters can make any writing flawed...If they really could see everything no plan should work, but Gillen plot was a lot more elaborated and more solid than Aaron's, that didn't even care for any justification for the reader, even recently Loki also had to use tricks to fool Heimdall, Al Ewing also had the preoccupation to not ignore Heimdall character main purpose...

Understand that the enchantment has to be acknowledged in the Asgardian perspective, if not you make the same mistake from who doesn't understand why Cap (AAU) was not worthy in that party, because he will be worthy in battle in Infinity War, he is as heroic as Thor but doesn't have Thor/Asgardian warrior spirit DNA, so it's not so easy for him to be worthy in every situation, the enchantment also works like this in comics, Beta Ray Bill character qualities were? Deny that Odin and Asgard have different perceptions of "life" is absurd, and takes away all the purpose of Asgard in any kind of story...

I will try make it simple, you have to be worthy before wield Mjolnir not after, Aaron didn't build a solid plot, where he could prove that Jane was worthy before she wield Mjolnir, doesn't feel that she is worthy in the Asgardian perspective, her current disease was easy writing that fits more the human beliefs, Jane character had ups and downs in the canon, for now justify her current worthiness with her current disease and the refutation for magic feels contradictory, and just to convenient to fit the new creative decisions (female version of Thor), only when this story ends i can reply to your quote, this kind of writing is so tricky that i really don't want to run any future path/scenario, just wait...

Blake was a creation of Odin used to teach Thor humility, Jane is a real character with her own identity, the female version of Thor required a very different execution, Mjolnir only gives you the Power of Thor, this plot should at least try to explain Jane's transformation and give Thordis her own characterization, and why this scenario only happened now, theories are just theories, and the mystery was so weak that can't be justification for everything, again just feels convenient to fit the new direction, Aaron's plot left to much stuff without any explanation, and i could understand that if this were only 4 issues but 8? He had all the time he needed to build a solid execution before Secret Wars, some of you explanations/justifications surpass Aaron's writing intentions, giving some terrible decisions a more positive vibe, but the flaws are still there...

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"Good mystery"

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I caught up on the last 3 issues before diving into this one. While I can see the arguments for why some of this story arc is problematic (especially bits related to Heimdall's sight) overall I've enjoyed this story. There have been times when I felt the thematic points have been a little too heavy-handed or on the nose but I also have to wonder if some of that comes from some of the criticisms and responses from certain sectors being a bit too simplistic and maybe Aaron just felt he had to do so. Impossible to say either way unless he really wanted to get into that himself. I'm going to have to go back and reread these issues along with large parts of GOT though to see how if there's anything else that strikes my interest about this story.

For me the toughest thing is the whole cancer aspect for Jane. That has to be handled very delicately IMO. I can see ways where it's handled respectfully and others where it becomes highly offensive or insensitive. In some ways it's exciting to see a character with a terminal illness who isn't just wasting way passively while their superpowerful friend or significant other grieves but otherwise just carries on. I could see readers with a terminal or chronic sickness who see Jane and appreciate that here's a hero who isn't sitting around waiting for everyone to feel sorry for them and is making the most or her remaining time. If you knew your time was up but you could do something amazing for others in the meantime that's pretty awesome in my book.

I get that it seems silly to some that if she's worthy to wield hammer why she doesn't she just have her cancer magically cured but I have to wonder if her reluctance to do so goes beyond just worrying about the consequences of using magic. I know people get cured and come back from the dead all the time in comics but magically wishing away her cancer is kind of a brutal thing to do in a world where most people will just suffer and die from it. I think the very notion of doing that is something that would make Jane feel guilty. If that turns out to be the case it would seem like a just and noble stance on the part of Jane in my mind would make her worthy to carry the hammer. We'll see and I guess we'll also have to see how this whole Secret Wars story plays out as well.

On the other hand if cancer is just a device for eventually returning the hammer to the Odinson and Jane is just magically cured I'll be rather disappointed. People have made a big deal about the handing of the name as disrespectful to the Odinson but if they don't handle her illness well it's just as disrespectful to Jane.