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#1 Posted by mistresssobeautiful (787 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, I know I'm going to sound like a total Fanboy, but who gives a swingin' hammer?! After many years (since 1999 after J.M.DeMatteis left THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN) I found myself reading two super-hero books again. One was Geoff Johns run on GREEN LANTERN and the other was Strazcynski's (sp?) THOR!

I am a big Thor fan but I am very selective about who writes his book. Simonson and Kirby (couldn't resist the "in" joke) are the only ones that did Thor justice (although Roy Thomas' Wagnerian Celestial Saga gets a stong honorable mention) but virtually everything else "didn't count" in my eyes.

In between these illustrious peaks I witnessed abominable insults levied against our Golden Gladiator:

1. Both Rob Liefeld (?!?) and Erik Larsen allowed Thor to be punched out by the Hulk...

2. Kurt Busiek had Superman wipe the floor up with him...(Superman caught Mjolnir in his palm. WHAT THE CRAP?! His hammer is magical... Superman should have broken every bone in his hand!)

3. In the otherwise wonderful HULK VERSUS...THOR video, the screenwriter commented that the Hulk won because he just plain didn't like Thor. That was simply outrageous! Yes, Jack Kirby once commented that he felt the Hulk's strength was virtually unlimited, however, Stan Lee always operated under the "rule" that anyone can beat anyone on any occasion. The bottom line is that although the Hulk "might" be stronger than Thor, Thor was a god and it isn't a given that the Hulk could survive one of Mjolnir's multi-gigawatt lightning bolts. Remember, Thor once defeated Galactus single handed, for Odin's sake!!?

So my question is why isn't Marvel executing some story control in regards to Thor or do they simply not give a crap about him? Do they just want to hold onto the copyright and could care less, otherwise? Does Marvel hate Thor?

#2 Edited by Wolverine08 (43582 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is a bit of a jobber at times.

#3 Posted by Z3RO180 (6618 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus... Just drop this whole Marvel hates whoever.

#4 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah yes the good ol "Does (insert company) hate (insert of one of their own characters) because of a few stupid moments most people couldn't care less about"

#5 Posted by Fallschirmjager (18370 posts) - - Show Bio

1. If the only reason you like a character is because he wins in fights, you might want to reevaluate if you actually like him.

2. Thor's current book is arguably the best Marvel title - especially the first 12 issues or whatever

3. Marvel doesn't hate their own characters

#6 Posted by SavageDragon (2252 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on dude, really does Marvel hate Thor? Hes has a whole event based around his mythology (Fear Itself) he always plays a huge roll in other major events. Jason Aarons God Butcher story was one of the best Thor stories in recent history and he has two movies. This thread is silly.

#7 Posted by Oscars94 (2580 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason Aaron loves Thor. He may be a jobber but other times he shows why he is the hero that we all love. He is the God of Gods!

#8 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

#9 Posted by Wolverine08 (43582 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, Jason Aaron's Thor: God of Thunder series is currently phenomenal.

#10 Posted by JetiiMitra (8710 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah yes the good ol "Does (insert company) hate (insert of one of their own characters) because of a few stupid moments most people couldn't care less about"

Yes.

#11 Posted by PunyParker (11971 posts) - - Show Bio

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

I started typing,saw your comment,and stopped typing,cuz we practically say the same thing.

Back on topic,if Marvel "hates" someone,it's Spider-Man.......particularly Peter Parker.

#12 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

I started typing,saw your comment,and stopped typing,cuz we practically say the same thing.

Back on topic,if Marvel "hates" someone,it's Spider-Man.......particularly Peter Parker.

dan slott hates peter.

#13 Posted by PunyParker (11971 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker said:
@theacidskull said:

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

I started typing,saw your comment,and stopped typing,cuz we practically say the same thing.

Back on topic,if Marvel "hates" someone,it's Spider-Man.......particularly Peter Parker.

dan slott hates peter.

Maybe.....but then you have Ultimate Spider-Kid cartoon,which is......awful,and the cancelation of Spec Spidey for THAT......so......they could have some bad feelings for web-head.

#14 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

@punyparker said:
@theacidskull said:

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

I started typing,saw your comment,and stopped typing,cuz we practically say the same thing.

Back on topic,if Marvel "hates" someone,it's Spider-Man.......particularly Peter Parker.

dan slott hates peter.

Maybe.....but then you have Ultimate Spider-Kid cartoon,which is......awful,and the cancelation of Spec Spidey for THAT......so......they could have some bad feelings for web-head.

ughhhh stop! MY EARS! THEY BLEED!

#15 Edited by bgibs13390 (904 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the reason Thor hasn't been portrayed as powerful in the past is because it is hard to have an extremely powerful person on a team and make it feel like the rest of the team mattered. If we felt like Thor could win the fight on his own ( which in a lot of cases he can) then we say well why does he need the Avengers at all? That is why Thor is constituently portrayed as stronger or way more powerful in his own book than in team books or events. In his own book you can have him smashing planets with his blows while he fights Gorr but in an Avengers book you just can't do that or say Captain America just looks a bit ridiculous standing there not dying from the force of Thor's blows. That is why Thor is a bit of a jobber. Especially in an Avengers book.

#16 Edited by Outside_85 (9511 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Hulk's whole thing, it is even one of his catchphrases; He is the strongest there is. Thor has plenty of strength, but he also has a whole field of other tricks, Hulk only has strength and endurance.
  2. Even if Mjolnir is magical, hitting someone with it is still just an incredibly durable object with a lot of power behind it being met with something more durable. Had he blasted him with lighting and Superman had just shrugged it off, then yes you'd have a point. (plus you have to remember Superman is faster than nearly anyone on the Avengers, he could simply have avoided Thor if he wanted to. And Superman doesn't just fall over whenever Captain Marvel punches him, unless Billy punches him very hard.)
#17 Posted by Lvenger (20686 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes of course Marvel hate the character who stars in one of their best selling and fan loved series along with appearing in two other team books, has a series of best selling movies to his name and is one of their most popular characters to boot. And why am I not surprised about the Thor fanboy complaint on the Superman vs Thor match up in JLA/Avengers? All the people involved in the project, including people on the Marvel side agreed that Superman would beat Thor. Make of that what you will.

Online
#18 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Slott doesn't hate Peter Parker. Even if you don't like Superior or the story he's telling, you can tell that he loves Peter from the way he talks. Stole this from somebody on CBR

"Superior Spider-Man itself is another wonderful love letter to everything it means to be Spider-Man by showing you everything he /isn't/"

#19 Posted by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

@mistresssobeautiful: This whole thing sounds like a whine to be honest... You are whining about irrelevant and non canon things which makes it even worse... Weaker characters can punch out stronger ones this is something that happens both in real life and in comics and considering Hulk is at least Thors physical equal if not better it doesn't take a genius to figure out why he can punch him out in a slugfest. If there is to complain about someone catching Thors hammer with his hand than you should complain about Red Hulk catching Odinforce Thors hammer with his hand and then giving him a beating.... That was just atrocious...

As for the Hulk VS movies yes you have Hulk beating on Thor but at the same time you have Wolverine beating on the Hulk and humiliating him so really it's just a non canon videos made for entertainment purposes.

I don't understand this idea of Thor fans wanting Thor to be the END ALL, BE ALL character like Superman who used to pull powers from his ass and was the guy that was written to be the best in everything he ever did. It's the reason why i find his character to be boring and bland. Why would you want that for Thor? Would it really satisfy you if Thor went around just dropping everyone from left to right without any challenges? And the only people that could hurt him would be cosmic level beings? Meh... i guess everyone has their own preferences but i will never understand some people.

No, Marvel doesn't hate Thor. Marvel isn't just one secret guy that decides how things go for each character and each appearance and he just happens to hate on Thor a lot for some reason, we all know that different writers have different understandings and different visions on certain characters. Some think CharacterA is stronger some think CharacterB is and you as well as everyone else has to deal with it, because for every low showing of Thor there are high end great ones.

For instance i am personally a Hulk fan and currently i am disliking the Indestructible Hulk series a lot and i really dislike the way Waid writers Hulk(or should i say doesn't write him at all), so at the end of the day after all my complaints and everything i have to learn to deal with it and hope something better happens in the future, while at the same time Thor is having his own great series that is much better than Hulks and is probably the best single character series from Marvel NOW.

#20 Edited by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk has beat Thor plenty of times and vice-versa

its not like Batman caught it took it and wrecked havoc on Asgard. Superman is a being of close power so its possible for that to happen.

and besides why would you expect Hulk to lose in his movies ?

#21 Posted by PunyParker (11971 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker said:

@theacidskull said:

@punyparker said:
@theacidskull said:

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

I started typing,saw your comment,and stopped typing,cuz we practically say the same thing.

Back on topic,if Marvel "hates" someone,it's Spider-Man.......particularly Peter Parker.

dan slott hates peter.

Maybe.....but then you have Ultimate Spider-Kid cartoon,which is......awful,and the cancelation of Spec Spidey for THAT......so......they could have some bad feelings for web-head.

ughhhh stop! MY EARS! THEY BLEED!

You read my posts out loud?!.... :P

#22 Edited by HaveAtThee (528 posts) - - Show Bio

Wrong question to be asking. Thor is one of their premier characters with his face plastered all over the media-sphere.

We can easily debate the question if certain Marvel writers and editors "get" how to write a character like Thor (or virtually every other powerhouse) without having him take the heaviest beating for The Avengers (or in a group setting in general). We can also take that debate to the wider question of "Do Marvel writers like to adhere to a certain continuity with a character, or are their characters mere props for whichever plot they decide to publish?"

Characters like Hulk and Superman are certainly powerful enough to hurt and/or defeat Thor in the right circumstances. We can argue if those particular events/stories were of quality or not, but those are different questions to ask.

Besides, most of us longtime readers and fans know about Thor and just how powerful he is or can be in a certain story. Same with Hulk and Superman and pretty much every other major powerhouse. I've had plenty of fun conversations with big Hulk fans where both of us acknowledge that either character could beat/kill the other in the right story. Heck, I think Marvel lately has been TERRIBLE in portraying large, epic fights with lots of characters. Many of their writers are glorified Indy writers who aren't well-versed in superhero stories and characters, even if they have undeniable talent as creators.

#23 Posted by TDK_1997 (14983 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Marvel hate one of their most popular character who gets them so much money that they can't even comperhend it.Yes,there are times when they make Thor a jobber but most of the times as right now they even make him do things that he hasn't done before and that is because they want to please his fans.

#24 Posted by HumanRocket (8620 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor God of Thunder.

#25 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8151 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, Jason Aaron's Thor: God of Thunder series is currently phenomenal God Like.

#26 Posted by THORSON (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

probably, he could be the superman of marvel, bu marvel wants him to be a sack of potatoes.

#27 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

@punyparker said:

@theacidskull said:

@punyparker said:
@theacidskull said:

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

I started typing,saw your comment,and stopped typing,cuz we practically say the same thing.

Back on topic,if Marvel "hates" someone,it's Spider-Man.......particularly Peter Parker.

dan slott hates peter.

Maybe.....but then you have Ultimate Spider-Kid cartoon,which is......awful,and the cancelation of Spec Spidey for THAT......so......they could have some bad feelings for web-head.

ughhhh stop! MY EARS! THEY BLEED!

You read my posts out loud?!.... :P

Yes. >_>

<_<

#28 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

Wrong question to be asking. Thor is one of their premier characters with his face plastered all over the media-sphere.

We can easily debate the question if certain Marvel writers and editors "get" how to write a character like Thor (or virtually every other powerhouse) without having him take the heaviest beating for The Avengers (or in a group setting in general). We can also take that debate to the wider question of "Do Marvel writers like to adhere to a certain continuity with a character, or are their characters mere props for whichever plot they decide to publish?"

Characters like Hulk and Superman are certainly powerful enough to hurt and/or defeat Thor in the right circumstances. We can argue if those particular events/stories were of quality or not, but those are different questions to ask.

Besides, most of us longtime readers and fans know about Thor and just how powerful he is or can be in a certain story. Same with Hulk and Superman and pretty much every other major powerhouse. I've had plenty of fun conversations with big Hulk fans where both of us acknowledge that either character could beat/kill the other in the right story. Heck, I think Marvel lately has been TERRIBLE in portraying large, epic fights with lots of characters. Many of their writers are glorified Indy writers who aren't well-versed in superhero stories and characters, even if they have undeniable talent as creators.

Best response so far. :)

#29 Posted by ChildoftheAtom (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@mistresssobeautiful:

I understand the superman catching the hammer being BS(but I could be that he was worthy) and I suggest when reading only believing what ur favorite writers wrote ur heroes like. But it sounds like u just don't like Thor losing. As you said Stan wanted to have anyone can beat anyone on occasion. I have become a huge fan of thor and I like how hes the warrior, not the superman of the Avengers. I (like in the movies) like when he has superhuman durability. And don't you like when thor is more of the warrior and not the oneshot lighting bolt anyone like you mentioned in the OP. That's how fights go ya know its cooler to watch. Hulk may be strongest there is but Thor will always be the mightiest avenger no matter what, but him one shotting avengers sounds like Spite matches and would ruin the character for me.

#30 Edited by SOG7dc (7488 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman fans like myself are reading Lobdells run.....meanwhile Thor is having a character defining Norse epic written by Jason Aaron and you're complaining? Stop whining and enjoy

#31 Posted by PunyParker (11971 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker said:

@theacidskull said:

@punyparker said:

@theacidskull said:

@punyparker said:
@theacidskull said:

No, they don't hate thor, if Marvel did, he wouldn't get two movies and his title wouldn't become one of marvels best titles. Hulk is Thors match in battel, they are friends/rivals, sometimes one wins, other times the other.

I started typing,saw your comment,and stopped typing,cuz we practically say the same thing.

Back on topic,if Marvel "hates" someone,it's Spider-Man.......particularly Peter Parker.

dan slott hates peter.

Maybe.....but then you have Ultimate Spider-Kid cartoon,which is......awful,and the cancelation of Spec Spidey for THAT......so......they could have some bad feelings for web-head.

ughhhh stop! MY EARS! THEY BLEED!

You read my posts out loud?!.... :P

Yes. >_>

<_<

Awwww!! <3

#32 Edited by Lvenger (20686 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

Superman fans like myself are reading Lobdells run.....meanwhile Thor is having a character difining Norse epic written by Jason Aaron and you're complaining? Stop whining and enjoy

Why are you still reading Lobdell's run mate? Stick to the better Superman stuff and don't reward Lobdell for his **** poor writing.

Online
#33 Posted by Mxyzptlk_CV (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

@mistresssobeautiful: About your points 1. and 3.

I think that it isn´t such a big deal that Thor loses loses to the Hulk...Hulk has immense power and should be able to defeat the likes of Thor (that´s why it has happened on numerous occasions)...Most of the time they are written to be on par with each other...(despite what many comicvine users have to say)

#34 Posted by SOG7dc (7488 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I read it mostly for the art at this point

#35 Posted by Lvenger (20686 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Oh yes you said you would be reading the issues where Benes comes in since you like his art a lot.

Online
#36 Posted by SOG7dc (7488 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

That and Lobdell is good for some fan-wank so who knows maybe Superman will do something cool like benching the earth again pretty soon.....in fact I predict that the first issue of Benes' art Supes will get another mind blowing feat

#37 Posted by DatHomieSilverSurfer (284 posts) - - Show Bio

I read this article that described why the hulk will usually beat Thor, and this was the logic:

There are 3 powertypes- Strength, Skill, and Energy Manipulation

Ok, so here are Marvels big 3- Hulk, Thor, and Silver Surfer

Hulks strength usually beats Thors battle prowess, which in turn can overcome Silver Surfers energy manipulation, which in turn can usually defeat the hulk (turning him back into banner, etc...) And if you look at these characters match-ups, Thor tends to beat SS who usually defeats Hulk who usually wins over Thor.

#38 Posted by Herokiller12344 (999 posts) - - Show Bio

Do Marvel hate Thor?

Dat it do mang, dat it do.

#39 Edited by westy206 (709 posts) - - Show Bio

@mistresssobeautiful: you said Thor beat Galactus! So you have just made a case against your point. If Marvel hated Thor would they let him beat the most powerful being the universe (more or less)

#40 Edited by New_World_Order (13280 posts) - - Show Bio

  1. Hulk's whole thing, it is even one of his catchphrases; He is the strongest there is. Thor has plenty of strength, but he also has a whole field of other tricks, Hulk only has strength and endurance.
  2. Even if Mjolnir is magical, hitting someone with it is still just an incredibly durable object with a lot of power behind it being met with something more durable. Had he blasted him with lighting and Superman had just shrugged it off, then yes you'd have a point. (plus you have to remember Superman is faster than nearly anyone on the Avengers, he could simply have avoided Thor if he wanted to. And Superman doesn't just fall over whenever Captain Marvel punches him, unless Billy punches him very hard.)

Mjolnir is way more durable than Superman.

#41 Posted by Outside_85 (9511 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Hmm and Superman has only really been smashed once (death of Superman), while i seem to remember Mjolnir having been smashed quite a few times.

#42 Edited by New_World_Order (13280 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

@thundergodswrath: Hmm and Superman has only really been smashed once (death of Superman), while i seem to remember Mjolnir having been smashed quite a few times.

I highly doubt Doomsday could do anything to Mjolnir. Especially that version of Doomsday.Mjolnir has been destroyed by powers and beings above Superman.

#43 Edited by Outside_85 (9511 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Mjolnir was last broken (as I remember) by smashing Bor's skull open, it is not indestructible. Anyways my point was that the way Mjolnir was used in that scene thats being complained about by the OP doesnt carry a 'should monster it with 100% certainty'.

If you really want to know, Captain Marvel actually hurt his hand when he had to deliver a knock-out punch to Superman's head. Mjolnir didn't hit Superman's head and the hammer doesnt carry a Juggernaught 'cannot be stopped' enchantment.

#44 Posted by New_World_Order (13280 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Mjolnir was last broken (as I remember) by smashing Bor's skull open, it is not indestructible. Anyways my point was that the way Mjolnir was used in that scene thats being complained about by the OP doesnt carry a 'should monster it with 100% certainty'.

If you really want to know, Captain Marvel actually hurt his hand when he had to deliver a knock-out punch to Superman's head. Mjolnir didn't hit Superman's head and the hammer doesnt carry a Juggernaught 'cannot be stopped' enchantment.

I didn't say that it was indestructible. When Mjolnir hit Bor's skull it not only broke because how durable Bor was,but because how much power ( Odin Force ) unleashed at once. To say Superman is more durable than Mjolnir is kind of suprising seeing as some of the stuff Mjolnir hits would break Superman's hand in attempt. Captain Marvel hurting his hand on Superman is nothing impressive compared to what Mjolnir has done.

Let's see Superman after getting sliced by Wolverine's adamantium claws, cause Mjolnir suffered nothing and Superman has been sliced with objects less sharper than that. To be honest people need to remember that Mjolnir used to be welded by Odin before Thor, the thing is just suppose to be insanely powerful.

#45 Edited by Outside_85 (9511 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Superman took a gut punch from Doomsday's spiked knuckels without his skin breaking, I seriously doubt Wolverine's claws can match that since I haven't heard his claws being able to slice electrons off atoms (the only thing I can remember that could cut him just by being sharp). In regards to sheer force Superman has taken a point-blank blast that was equated to a million nuclear bombs.

Btw, who has wielded the hammer in the past is mostly irrelevant other than to show it has pedigree as a weapon, it's not an indicator of how powerful it is.

#46 Posted by New_World_Order (13280 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Okay now its obvious Wolverine's claws are sharper than Doomsday Spike knuckles. No need for me to get into that.

Mjolnir has tanked absorbing half a bomb that could kill every god in the universe. It has tanked a blast from a being who equals a pissed off Odin. It has tanked a planet destroying blast. Now tell me how Superman compares to that.

I could agree with that last person.

#47 Edited by Outside_85 (9511 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath:Are they now?They are sharp, but not that sharp. As for Doomsday, you forget he already in his first fight with Superman had enough strength to level mountains and that that strength is narrowed down to a tiny point.

And how exactly does it manage to tank half a bomb? What happened to the other half?

Anyways, how durable Mjolnir is is not relevant to the argument since it's not about whenever Superman can break it or not.

#48 Posted by New_World_Order (13280 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath:Are they now?They are sharp, but not that sharp. As for Doomsday, you forget he already in his first fight with Superman had enough strength to level mountains and that that strength is narrowed down to a tiny point.

And how exactly does it manage to tank half a bomb? What happened to the other half?

Anyways, how durable Mjolnir is is not relevant to the argument since it's not about whenever Superman can break it or not.

Cause he had two Mjolnirs, and both were used to absorb the god bomb. Although yeah your right, were going no where with this on the wrong topic.

#49 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7891 posts) - - Show Bio

This current run on Thor I have thoroughly enjoyed, especially God Hunter absolutely fantastic stuff. MJS's reboot is also some of my favorte as well as Gillens run pre Siege. Even though Thor is my favorite I have to admit I find it hard to read classic runs, when he was very 'nah for I be the mighty Thor' type writing

#50 Posted by AsgardianXeno929 (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Its more of the writers than marvel itself. Like the Hulk vs. writer who hated Thor and then was part of TDW >_> I blame him for Thor not getting as much glory as loki lol. They gave loki, frigga, kurse, fodder soldiers of both asgard and dark elves, and even Jane and friends time to shine, while Thor needed plot to do something useful in beating malekith. lol