The Flash Episode 108 - "Flash vs Arrow"

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k4tzm4n

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Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

*This review contains some spoilers. Leave now if you haven't watched the episode yet!*

"No one is feeling that quote?"

When you call an episode "Flash vs Arrow" and build the hype to infinity and beyond, you really need to deliver or else it'll be hugely disappointing and leave fans with negative thoughts about both shows. Thankfully, that isn't the case at all and this episode was full of fan service and a crazy amount fun. Sure, I have some minor criticisms and the story isn't going to blow your mind, but man, it's such a blast and delivers pretty much everything we wanted!

First and foremost, this episode does a terrific job illustrating the difference between these two heroes and yes, the fight was all kinds of exciting. Yeah, Barry Allen has an enormous advantage with super speed, but he's still new to this and isn't nearly as tactical as he could be. Arrow is just an ordinary guy who pushed himself to become skilled, clever, and, unlike Barry, earned his abs (likely the most difficult accomplishment of them all). On paper, Flash should obliterate Arrow effortlessly, but you need to take into account how they operate in combat. Flash has an ego and thinks his speed gives him the edge he needs; Arrow analyzes the situation and does his best to find weaknesses. Well, there's several times in his own show when he doesn't (dude, don't go hand-to-hand with Bronze Tiger!), but the point is he often tries to! This episode finds a way to make these differences come front and center and, not only does it work, but it keeps things varied. This isn't just a straight forward fight and I'm sure we'll all have our favorite moments. There's some really great shots throughout the brawl and, as expected, it's sure to keep you smiling.

Despite the episode's title and some of the dialogue, this episode really isn't about these two fighting. Yes, that's the highlight and it's amazingly entertaining, but the episode's about illustrating the difference in how these two operate. It shines a spotlight on how drastically different their worlds are -- something that's transparent to anyone who watches both shows and sees how different the tones are -- and watching Oliver attempt to help Barry get better at how he approaches fights is so absorbing. Ollie's world is often oozing with darkness, so to see him smile more, laugh, and interact with more lighthearted characters was a great change of pace, too. It doesn't matter who you're rooting for because both characters are given proper credit. Like Oliver Queen said, this one is all about highlighting the differences between power and precision and it's done in such an enjoyable way. It's simply good fun, even when it dips into darker territory. Hopefully this lesson of "Barry, stop being so sloppy" is something that'll actually stick with the scarlet speedster as the show moves forward. I'd love to see the hero get better and better, because honestly, it would be pretty silly if he didn't.

This one's all about showcasing the big differences between these two characters, but the supporting cast gets a good amount of the spotlight, too! A pleasant surprise was Diggle being really, really comedic. From his initial reaction to super speed to speculating about how Barry also uses his power, Diggle was lovable and legitimately funny in this one. Plus, how hysterical was it briefly seeing Diggle -- this big, ripped dude -- and Cisco -- this not so big dude -- standing right next to one another, both folding their arms? Speaking of Cisco, he's given a handful of lines which made me bust into laughter and, as always, Felicity's full of funny remarks. There's a great amount of laughs in this one. Wells' didn't get much time to shine yet they still did just enough to remind us there's so much the character is hiding. Oliver's final remark about him was a nice bit of levity as well. See, it is possible for team Arrow to be in a more uplifting environment! What's easily the highlight between the supporting characters had to be when they acted like total fanboys and began arguing about who would win in a fight between Flash and Arrow. Here's hoping we see even more of that tomorrow night!

No Caption Provided

Okay, time to talk about the small criticisms. First up, Ray Bivolo's basically there just to be a plot device for Barry Allen and Oliver Queen to fight and illustrate the differences between the two. It's your familiar "heroes are fighting because one is brainwashed!" scenario. There's pretty much no depth or development with the villain, but it's a good way to bring the theme front and center. Barry has super speed, but -- as we've seen in several episodes -- he still has a lot to learn about fighting crime and that's something Arrow has plenty of experience doing. While some may not be a fan of it, I really liked how they skipped Arrow and Flash taking down Bivolo (you just can't top the hero vs. hero scene) and cut right to the guy being locked up and complimented it with Cisco's funny remarks. Secondly, I can't be the only one who's frustrated with Iris' decision in the end, right? Look, I do get it. Her boyfriend was assaulted by Flash and the hero lashed out at her verbally, but considering all he's done and the reason he gave, she's really not going to at least hear the guy out or be a little less harsh with her decision? Maybe she could explain she needs some space right now to think instead of just completely shutting him out like that? Hash, Iris, and that made me think of Ron Burgundy saying "that escalated quickly!" Thirdly, if Felicity is trying to keep Oliver's secret safe, she probably shouldn't be using his first name when talking about him in S.T.A.R. Labs! You too, Barry! Lastly, Flash hitting Oliver with a gazillion punches looked pretty cool; the visual effects of Barry's arms unleashing was good stuff. However, if you just look at Oliver during the scene, the onslaught of punches don't really seem like they're taking that much of a toll on him when they should be pretty devastating. It was still awesome, but the impact of the hits didn't seem as strong as they should have.

You know that smile Barry had on his face when he saw Arrow for the first time in this episode? That's pretty much the expression I had while I was watching this episode. "Flash vs Arrow" is ridiculously fun, full of comedy, and has just the right amount of emotion. Yeah, the overall plot may not be that original and it takes some familiar turns, but the absurd amount of fan service and laughs it has makes up for that and then some. It really does feel like a love letter to the fans. Plus, it manages to produce a big development or two along the way as well (although, one may be confusing for people who don't watch Arrow!). As if all this wasn't enough, there's an excellent cliffhanger. Obviously, I'm very excited to see how they handle the follow-up in tomorrow's Arrow.

Oh, and did anyone else think Wells said "Batman" at one point? I had to rewind twice to find out he really said "that man." Does anyone else think that may have been an intentional and funny little nod? "Batman" certainly fit what Wells was talking about, after all!

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ms__omega

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Man this episode was perfect :) Flash just keeps getting better.

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the_stegman

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#2 the_stegman  Moderator

Batman v. Superman: Small screen version.

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Harryvine

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#3  Edited By Harryvine

Is 6 Stars possible?

I think Ollie won and it wasn't a draw. He could have choked him out.

Firestorm!

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CaptainMarvel4Ever

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@harryvine said:

Is 6 Stars possible?

Firestorm!

Firestorm was in this?!

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SupBatz

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#5  Edited By SupBatz

Hate to be negative, but I thought that this was one of the most divisive episodes in either show. There were some things that really worked well, and others that fell almost completely flat.

To start with the positives, the dialogue was fun. I found myself laughing a lot while watching. Even for an episode of The Flash, this episode really upped the “fun” level in some places, which was great. The effects were impressive, as always. (Except maybe for a portion of the actual fight between the heroes).

On the more negative side: there was just way too much going on. Almost every single plot point felt either underdeveloped or cliché. Even ignoring the “convenience” of this week’s choice of metahuman to serve a typical “hero vs. hero while one is under some strange influence” plot, there is a glaring flaw in the fact that Rainbow Raider played almost no role in this episode as a character. Now, Arrow and The Flash aren't shows that are known for delivering unique and compelling villains-of-the-week. But this was a new low. The villain had no motivation, no memorable dialogue (few lines at all, in fact), and to top it all off: we didn’t even see them catch him in the end. Throwing him into the prison was a real testament to just how little a presence he had. The only purpose of the character was to temporarily pit the heroes against one another.

Similarly, this episode fell into the all-too-familiar trope of turning everybody against Barry while he is under some sort of adverse influence. I’m not typically against these kinds of plotlines, but here it just felt incredibly cliché. Everything from Iris’ turning on the Flash to the assembling of a task force left a bad taste in my mouth.

There were some truly strange moments in this episode – such as the manner in which Singh’s sexual orientation was revealed, everybody constantly ignoring how creepy and ominous Wells is, and Joe’s random turnaround regarding Ollie.

It all just contributed to that feeling of everything in this episode being massively underdeveloped. There was interesting content, but there was so much clutter that a lot of things just fell completely flat.

And the ending with Oliver’s ex was, in my opinion, poorly handled. Connor Hawke’s introduction and presence was one of the things I was excited about seeing this season. But the way it was handled here did not excite me at all. And I also a bit disappointed that they didn’t recast Connor’s mother. Nothing against the actress, but I was hoping for a more ethnically diverse background so as to match with Connor’s mixed heritage in comics.

All-in-all, I would sum this episode up as formulaic. We were going through the motions of a typical “hero vs. hero” plotline. Too much was crammed into the episode to make it really stand out to me. And other things were just handled in a bizarre way that felt incredibly jarring. On the bright side, now that we got the “vs” out of the way, I’m hoping we get more interesting crossovers in the future.

5/10 from me. I was really hyped for this episode. And even if I wouldn’t call it bad, I can’t ignore all of the problems I had with it.

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Red_Robin97

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@supbatz: You could be a reviewer for IGN.

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Boynerdgeek

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So confirm that Rainbow Raider in New 52 will have powers of colour that will effect people emotion ?

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Deranged Midget

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Such a good episode. Loved every second of it and the best part; it kept me wanting more and MORE!

Sick review dude!

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bunkerbuster05

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What a great episode. Had a smile on my face the entire time.

Diggle's reaction to Barry was the highlight for me. "Are you not freaked out by this?"

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CaptainLantern76

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#10  Edited By CaptainLantern76

Loved every second of it. Really liked the interaction between Oliver and Barry.

I especially love the ending, with Ronnie Raymond revealed to be alive and with fire-related superpowers....

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k4tzm4n

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#11  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
@harryvine said:

Is 6 Stars possible?

I think Ollie won and it wasn't a draw. He could have choked him out.

Firestorm!

Heh, funny you say that (the second line). I was going to write about it because, initially, I had the same thought. Oliver clearly had Barry at a disadvantage, but I'm wondering what would have happened if the others didn't interfere. Given his super speed, could he vibrate hard enough to loosen Oliver's grip or even hurt him? I agree 100% Ollie had the edge when it ended, but I think Barry potentially could have gotten out of it. It's just a matter of whether he would have. The dude has so much power but, as this episode pointed out, he isn't the most skilled combatant around. So yeah, I thought it was a little odd to have Cisco declare it as a tie, but I didn't really mind, either. He does have a biased opinion, after all ;)

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derekvang

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Felicity in her bra though <3

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superhoodie

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The fight between the two was very foreseeable.

The only thing i liked was the implemented plots in the end, mainly on the appearance of Firestorm.

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eamon542000

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Loved this ep!!!!!

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jackcryan

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This episode was great, now I want to see the Flash in Arrow's world tomorrow.

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Gotham331

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Words cannot describe how awesome this episode was

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joshmightbe

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The Rainbow Raider kind of sucked but he was the Rainbow Raider so really all they could do was minimize the terribleness of one of the Flash's most pathetic villains.

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ms__omega

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Is 6 Stars possible?

I think Ollie won and it wasn't a draw. He could have choked him out.

Firestorm!

I know right bout lost my damned mind at the end :)

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Pokeysteve

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Loved this episode! They did an excellent job with the characters involved and most importantly, that fight. If this would have happened in season 2 of Flash it wouldn't have been as believable. I like how Ollie has sort of become Barry's quiet mentor.

There's pretty much no depth or development with the villain

Come on Katz! No one came into this episode itching to see a villains back story. The title of the episode knows what we want and we got it :D

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Bulletbill1

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#20  Edited By Bulletbill1

Amazing episode, excellent review! not to mention...

Firestorm!!!!
Also

Was that manchester black when ronnie showed up?

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danhimself

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loved this episode! I really liked the interactions between Barry and Ollie...I think that was the highlight for me

but then we got hints at the emotional spectrum with how the Rainbow Rider used red to make people rage and how they used the other colors to bring Barry back to normal...loved that!

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Lurkero

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#22  Edited By Lurkero

"Arrow is just an ordinary guy who pushed himself to become skilled, clever, and, unlike Barry, earned his abs (likely the most difficult accomplishment of them all)."

Damn right Oliver earned that. Highlight of the review right here.

I think they did well so far. I would have liked to see a better villain, but as expected, the crossover is more about giving an excuse for the characters from different shows to interact with each other for 2 hours.

I'm interested to see how Oliver handles his ex returning though. That was a plot point I wasn't expecting to show up. Likely not a lasting one though.

Also, Oliver totally won that fight. I don't know how long I can tolerate Barry being super fast but not able to handle himself in combat (Barry could have easily won of course).

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SaintWildcard

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What's her face really stuck out as a sore thumb this episode. That "I bet you say that to all the girls" line made me roll my eyes so hard I nearly went blind. I would have given this episode a 4/5 honestly.

Batman v. Superman: Small screen version.

I call it the Discount Superman vs Batman fight. I found it adorable how much the cast was hyping it as if it was a long awaited fight. I obviously wanted to see it but lets get real ._.

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k4tzm4n

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#24  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@pokeysteve said:

Loved this episode! They did an excellent job with the characters involved and most importantly, that fight. If this would have happened in season 2 of Flash it wouldn't have been as believable. I like how Ollie has sort of become Barry's quiet mentor.

There's pretty much no depth or development with the villain

Come on Katz! No one came into this episode itching to see a villains back story. The title of the episode knows what we want and we got it :D

Agreed 150%, but seeing as it's my job to analyze the episode, I think it's worth at least mentioning. Obviously, it didn't hurt my opinion of the episode all that much since it handled the Flash/Arrow dynamic so well! ;)

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AlKusanagi

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#25  Edited By AlKusanagi

All I'm sayin' is Caitlicity is where it's at...

Oh yeah, that transition at the end was TERRIBLE! I know it was supposed to be a joke, but it cuts to commercial and when it comes back, the baddie is already caught. I honestly thought they had screwed up and skipped 10 minutes of show.

Also, I'm shocked that they didn't have Iris accidentally get shot by Officer Boyfriend when he was shooting in that general direction and Barry dodged the bullets.

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renamed040924

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#26  Edited By renamed040924

The guys on the battle board just can't except that tactics and experience can go a long way, they're divided into two parties right now: the "lol PIS writers are stupid" group, and the even more unprecedented party who say Flash stomped Oliver. Like, he did?! Did we watch different fight scenes?

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the_comebacks

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#27  Edited By the_comebacks

I really liked this episode. I loved some of arrow's lines-like the silly codes names and i heard you heal fast.

the light psychology seemed like a possible precursor to green lantern. My main negative was the Iris cheating list joke thing-I thought it was lame. Overall great episode. 8.5/10

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MadeinBangladesh

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The Flash Finally got 5 stars!!

And it seems like tonight is DC night, with all the awesome news and shows coming out tonight.

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shroudofsorrow

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I thought it was "Batman" too! Was it really "that man"? Man, I feel like an idiot for making that mistake. Would have loved to have gotten confirmation that Batman existed in this world...

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the_stegman

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#30 the_stegman  Moderator

Also, this is small, but when the line:

"Anger, rage...hate." was said and Cisco piped up with "A Jedi, feels none of these things.'

I laughed out loud, cause I legit was thinking Yoda a second before he said it.

I LOVE THIS SHOW!!

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RexWing

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#31  Edited By RexWing

Really enjoyed this. I was afraid it wouldn't live up to the hype but I was really impressed. Hoping tomorrow night's arrow is just as good (kind of worried about the direction they'll take cpt boomerang, but I did love that actor in Spartacus)

I thought it was pretty funny how they played out the old as time fanboy arguments where team arrow said 'well Ollie would win for this reason and this reason...' and team flash had all their counterpoints. Reminded me alot of the posts we see for character of the month vs battles lol

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batmite1995

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Awesome episode!! Anybody else thinks Olivers identity may have leaked in the future and that is how Harrison wells knew?

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ULTRAstarkiller

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I loved this episode but Oliver being in Barry's environment (show) just showed how unnecessarily serious Oliver is on the CW. His Batman-ism was showing in spades and I was expecting Barry to say "You'll never be as fast as me!" "You'll never be BATMAN!" lol. I did love the episode though can't wait for tomorrow.

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godzilla44

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My favorite Flash episode just so awesome, the jokes, the action, just perfect. 5/5

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Guardiandevil83

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@rexwing: Yeah. I'm happy that the creators of this show seem to be searching comic forums apparently. Lol They seem to get the fans.

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laabitres

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that ending was amazing

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strangetales

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Great review. Great episode.

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Surza7

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Man this episode was perfect :) Flash just keeps getting better.

yea the fight was so so fantastic,not to mention the stuff building up to it...also cisco was pretty great,just need more!

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TrueMarvel

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Best Flash episode yet (And that is saying ALOT)

Best semi-Arrow episode this season (That's not saying much..)

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MadeinBangladesh

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#40  Edited By MadeinBangladesh

MAN SO MUCH AWESOMENESS AND FAN SERVICE!!!

@k4tzm4n haha I also thought Wells said Batman the first time. I was like WHAT!?!?!?!

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MadeinBangladesh

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@harryvine said:

Is 6 Stars possible?

Firestorm!

Firestorm was in this?!

That's what you get for not watching the best superhero show right now! Now you missed your favorite superhero's debut!

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CaptainMarvel4Ever

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MrMazz

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This was sucha nicely handeled episode of televison. No one cared about Rainbow Raider beyond his function as thing that reveals the emotional rawness beneath BArry's surface. He wasn't important and the episode didn't bother making him any more important than he had to be. WE didn't eve get to see them take him down after both beat the crap out of each other. A nice play on expectation.

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NighThunder

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Dat firestorm foreshadow doe

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AllStarSuperman

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Felicity in her bra though <3

This, that alone made this a 5 star episode.

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Mrfuzzynutz

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Have not seen the new shows in a few weeks, happened to channel surfing and came across this tonight. Honestly for a TV comic book whow featuring to star characters, you can't be to upset by the product. Not only did you get a better then average conflict displaying both characters skills ( and with it being Flash's show, he got to display a bit more naturally..)

But I enjoyed how the supporting characters got to coexist and get in some pretty good lines

However the unexpected ending was worth everything, As I was wondering how they were going to handle this characters look, and he looked great!

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w0nd

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did they make f.s. just another human torch?

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unbreakable_fs4

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Great episode. I was curious on how they'd make the two heroes fight but the whole thing flowed well with the story.

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the_stegman

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#50 the_stegman  Moderator

@k4tzm4n:

Lastly, Flash hitting Oliver with a gazillion punches looked pretty cool; the visual effects of Barry's arms unleashing was good stuff. However, if you just look at Oliver during the scene, the onslaught of punches don't really seem like they're taking that much of a toll on him when they should be pretty devastating. It was still awesome, but the impact of the hits didn't seem as strong as they should have.

I thought I was the only one who noticed! Dude got hit like, 50 times in a row, and he only had a limp at the end. Is Barry that weak?? Lol.