Who would Lex Luthor hate the most in the Marvel Univ.?

Who do you think Lex would clash with the most if he were in the Marvel Universe?

I guess the golden boy of Marvel is Captain America but Thor is a god, so either one of them would be a threat to Lex's ego.

But in the MU. there is so much mistrust that Lex would became the leader of the people and humanity's savior in a week :P

Well I wouldn't say everything is fine and dandy in the DC Universe :P, but back on topic I'd place my money on Cap. I can see Lex now taunting him, calling him a relic from the past, and saying his primitive 1940's thinking doesn't comprehend big business LOL.

I don't think he could really be against anyone. He doesn't like Sup0erman because he thinks he limits humanities potential. Just looking at the Marvel Universe, that same reasoning wouldn't make sense, with the mutants and inhumans.

Definitely better than Marvel. Marvel's heroes are in a constant state of inner fighting or scheming, hell Osborn managed to become MU's "Golden Boy" for a good amount of time and Osborn isn't nearly as clever, resourceful or manipulative as Lex, who even managed to become the president of the US!

The true reason Lex hates Supes is because of Lex's inferiority complex. Lex doesn't hate Supes because he limits humanities potential but because of jealousy. There is a reason he goes after Supes nor Flash, MMH, Wonder Woman etc.
He is simply jealous. He wants to be on top, it doesn't matter the place, Lex wants to be top dog, Superman takes that away from him.

@squalleon: Maybe, but he has flat out stated that he doesn't like Superman because he limits humanities potential.

I think there's something there with the Thor idea. He wouldn't like Thor who claims to be a God. I don't see him caring about Capt. America at all.

And in other stories he admits he is simply jealous :P And that is actually something mentioned in the top Superman stories like All Star, Red Son etc. Or if he doesn't admit it, the story makes it clear. Also LEX LIES!

I don't know. The fact that someone as obviously evil as Lex managed to get elected doesn't look too good for the common sense of the DCU. I wouldn't say Osborn isn't nearly as clever, resourceful or as manipulative as Lex.........In fact I'd say that's an inaccurate statement but I'll agree to disagree. And last I checked didn't the DC heroes have just as many skeletons in the closet as the Marvel guys? Good Old Pandora's box brought all those to light. At least the Marvel guys are open and don't try to hide what kind of person they are, but hey....just my opinion. What makes you say the Marvel guys are in a constant state of inner fighting or scheming? The DC Universe has plenty of in fighting and it's fare share of scheming.

X-men IMO, or Thor

Captain America or Iron Man

@squalleon: But those stories are not canon :P

I dunno man. I don't necessarily think you're wrong by any means, but I don't understand why he would target all his jealousy against Superman, when there are numerous other heroes that upstage him to a huge degree.

That's why to me, the hating Superman because he limits our potential thing makes sense.

I agree to disagree but lets not forget Lex currenly IS DC's top dog. He is the savior, he beat the CS. That makes it two times that he is DC's golden boy. And Lex's feats are far beyond Osborn's...Osborn had to steal Iron Man's suit, Lex makes a new one to go toe to toe with Supes every other week :P

Pandora isn't a hero, and her connection to the DCU was zero.... Also there is a reason Pandora is called a member of "The Trinity of Sin".

Civil War, Dark Reign,Planet hulk, World War Hulk, Secret Invasion, AvX, Axis, SpOck. And more that I am sure happened in between :P even the X-men are divided, the Illuminati are still going strong, killing planets and all.

He doesn't care about power. If he did he wouldn't fighting Supes, he would fight MMH, Flash, Captain Atom etc. He cares about fame and being the one everyone loves, you can see that in Secret Origins and “The Showdown Between Luthor and Superman!” too. Superman ''limiting humanity'' is the excuse he uses to hate Superman, to not admit he feels inferior.

@squalleon: But, in the DCU, don't people love Batman as much as Superman? We've seen kids arguing over their favorite...but I don't remember reading anything that places Superman higher than the other league members in terms of popularity. Not enough for Lex to focus on him.

If we're going by if Lex jumped in on the foregrounds of Marvel it would be the Fantastic Four and he'd be a very much so Doctor Doom like character not liking the fame the four were getting because they had special powers. That or he'd be an anti Magneto and go after the Mutants.

@squalleon:

Actually Lex isn't anyone's Golden Boy... the League is keeping him around to watch over him, going along with a ruse basically...

I don't get the sense that the general public worships him or anything that extreme.

but yeah, if he helped save the planet, the public does get a pass for admiring him for a while.

Marvel is really bad... for years now, basically Marvel's heroes don't need the bad guys around, they fight each other more often then now. except for Spiderman that is. His bad guys do stay busy.

Nope. In the DCU Batman is either feared, considered a psycho or an urban myth. Really? I don't want to be condecending but you probably haven't read much Pre-52 DC. For example, Superman's role in Morrison's JLA or Superman: Peace on Earth, or Superman: and the Legion of Super-heroes.

@squalleon: Well...you're wrong :) Batman is popular and liked, almost as much as Superman. Like I said, there was an issue with kids arguing who they liked better. People have posters on their walls of them etc. Batman used to be considered that way, but that all changed once he went public and joined the JL. I don't think your being condescending, but you certainly haven't made a convincing argument.

Your claim is that Superman surpasses every hero in terms of popularity, and that is why Lex is jealous of him, correct? So, can you provide any evidence to show that Superman surpasses every other hero in terms of popularity in-universe? Because (later tonight) I can show that Batman and Superman at least seem roughly equal.

Agreed but the people love him, he managed to get clean again. He is even a member of the JL. If that isn't manipulative as hell then I don't know what it is. He is not DC's golden boy but he managed once more to escape and make himself look like a hero.

Meh, Marvel is the epitomy of bad business for me now. Constant ret-cons to fit the movies, unispired writing, shock value, event fever that doesn't allow writers to keep a status quo to write their stories as they want it. To sum up Marvel comics are a huge bi-product of the MCU and not the opposite.

Your right Lex is top dog for now, but for how long?.................My bet's are he'll be out of office by the next event LOL. And stealing Iron Man's suit isn't necessarily as bad as not making his own. Stealing Starks equipment is a feat in it's own :P, also unless I'm wrong Osborn is so manipulative he's got connections within the Superhero community......meanwhile the League flat-out admits they will never trust Osborn so that's one thing he has over Lex IMO :P And let's not forget Lex has recently created a super-virus that is in the process of killing the metahuman population, and turning the world into a wasteland.......this isn't the first time he's done something like this...yet somehow earns enough trust back from the public and the league to not be executed. Good-bye common sense :P

Doesn't matter, she still spilled plenty of secrets and showed that the DC guys don't trust each other as much as you'd think.

Identity Crisis, Tower of Babel, Trinity War, Injustice (non-canon but still shows my point in a realistic manner), Infinite Crisis, Superman: Doomed, and a few others that I can't recall off the top of my head. And since we are on the subject of accusations, the Titans are currently divided with Superboy having become a mass murderer and all, then of course the Legion of Superheroes is trying to commit infanticide, The once mighty and proud New Gods are now pure conquerors and elitist...........oh and I forgot planet killers as well. And once again no one trust Superman as much after the events of Doomed......But anyway the illuminti only killed one planet to save their universe, and in the words of Batman "we have an obligation to protect our world.....not anyone else's".

I could totally see beef here with these two....particularly Stark

@squalleon: it was not 'manipulative' ... he did not plan for the Crime Syndicate to come to earth, defeat the League, trap them inside the Firestorm Matrix, rally all the villains in the planet and overtake humanity... in fact I would say Lex's hand was forced into becoming a good guy in this scenario. he didn't manipulate this one at all. was he opportunistic? yeah, he's the poster boy for that.

You have one issue of Superman/Batman in mind but that title was out of continuity after the first two arcs :P Plus Wonder Woman is a fan favorite In universe, probably the only other equal to Supes in terms of in universe popularity, still that was Superman's job in Pre-52 DC to be the people's hero.
If I am correct, this is the issue you are talking about:
http://www.comicvine.com/supermanbatman-78-who-would-win-a-world-of-their-o/4000-244932/

@squalleon: Why was it out of continuity? I do remember that issue but now I'm confused, as I thought there was a similar thing in the N52...hmm

If you can show scans showing that Superman's popularity is that far above Batman's/the other heroes, I'll change my tune. Otherwise, let's just agree to disagree, as I still think Lex hating Superman for limiting us makes the most sense, for a number of reasons. (An alien taking our destiny..what Lex sees as his destiny away from us/him being the main).

1. He is a villian so certaintly not long.
2. He made allies, with Namor, Frost and Doom. Certainly not your ideal hero. A arrogant a$$hole, a ex villianess and a tyrrant...
3. And before that he was in the middle of a philanthropic event. Plus the fact he will make it out just fine only shows how much clever he is.
4. Identity crisis was never made public, same with ToB and TW(which was clearly the Trinity of sin's fault and CS was actually manipulating behind the scene from the start! Injustice is the worst example that you could give, atrocious story.
5. And at the same time the rest of the league tried to save Earth 2! While the leaders of the avengers and the xmen are making clear their intentions that the result is worthy of the cost.

I think there is a new scan rule so I don't know if I can show scans BUT Morrison's JLA no.4. The best example I can give, I think it will satisfy you.

@squalleon: I'm aware of that rule....do you know where it was officially posted? I don't think one issue can show what I'm asking, and honestly there are enough issues showing how highly people think of Batman as a public figure, so you probably can't change my mind :P

Lets agree to disagree since we can't prove our points beyond a reasonable doubt either way.

At least i gave examples, you are holding an opinion without any actual points :/

@muyjingo: Also here is the new rule :)
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/site-rules-and-faqs-669033/#1

@squalleon:

Sigh. Fine, let's keep debating.

That's not true. We agreed earlier that Lex has stated the reason he hates Superman is because he limits humanities potentials. Your examples of him being jealous were from non-canon comics. I also elaborated on why my reasoning makes more sense, at least more than yours. By your own admission WW is close to Superman in terms of popularity, so why does Lex focus on Superman and not both of them?

You also claimed that Superman/Batman was out of continuity, but it doesn't seem to have been. I'm surprised you didn't realize how popular Batman is, though you don't seem to be very familiar with the character. I mean, just look at Batman, INC.

Again, it's because he thinks Lex thinks he holds us back. He doesn't think that of Wonder Woman, or there is no evidence that he does. The available evidence doesn't support what you're saying, it supports what I'm saying.

1) Lex has, in canon stories, multiples times stated that he thinks Superman holds us back.

2) This is also the reason for his jealousy, as he sees Superman as robbing him of his destiny.

3) It's not purely because Superman is popular. By your own admission WW is almost as popular, and Batman had a global franchise of Bat heroes, and is certainly almost as popular if not equal or more so.

If you need specific issues showing Batman's popularity, that will have to wait until later, and even then I'm not sure what the point would be as you would still insist Superman far exceeds him in popularity, with no clear evidence to support that.

p.s. Thanks for the link to the rule. No idea why they are misinformed as to thinking the law says a full page scan can't be used.

1. Precisely my point. I don't think him becoming any kind of poster boy is a great example of his manipulative skills, since how he accomplished said task wasn't that spectacular.

2. Namor is a king, Frost is complicated, and Doom is a leader once you dig deeper into his character. Not unlike Owlman (evil Batman) , Wonder Woman (Has killed people), numerous other questionable heroes and Braniac. An emotionless, planet killing being, all people who Luthor has allied with in the past and even currently. Plus we have that time he recruited villains from all over the multi-verse to usher in a new galactic age of death :P Certainly not your ideal allies either.

3. "Plus the fact he will make it out just fine only shows how much clever he is." Not the point. How much more does this man need to do and to be seen doing on such a large scale before someone puts him away for life??

4. Not being made public doesn't matter. It shows the mistrust, egos, and differentiating agendas the DC heroes have, (including Trinity War) regardless if the creative team was too nervous to allow the details to be spilled to the world. At least Marvel let's their characters acknowledge their mistakes and deal with the consequences instead of covering everything up and moving like a thief in the night, but I digress. And for Injustice atrocious story my butt, so far that's the most realistic portrayal of a heel turn for Superman I've ever seen, and I've read plenty of comics. What I notice is that no matter how well written the turn is, or the motives, or the portrayal of a gradual change instead of a rushed one......Superman fans will still call said story terrible and bad. Which in this case is untrue.

5. Wrong. The illuminati clearly tried their best to save every earth they came across during the Incursions. They stumbled upon dead worlds, duped the system by sacrificing a fake planet, used the Infinity Gauntlet, had Reed in the lab up until the last minute. ect. And even at the end no one was willing to do what needed to be done except Namor.......who I now respect. I wonder if Golden Boy Superman would be willing to save his earth/universe if it meant destroying another earth...........Ohhhh how I love our savior Superman <_<

1. I also gave in continuity examples like Secret Origins.
2. Not really. Most stories tend to agree with me. In continuity or not.
3. Wonder Woman was a very controversial figure in pre-52, example Greg Rucka's run. Also I have to note that Superman is the only hero that is still affecting the future of the DCU for example the Legion of Super-heroes, which was made as a tribute to his ideas. Also as Lightning Lad said "no one remembers Batman in the 30th century".
4. Wonder Woman, MMH, Flash, do exactly what Superman does, why doesn't he go after them?
5. Search the internet a bit, don't expect everything in a plate :P *Sigh* here: http://www.comicvine.com/batman/4005-1699/forums/which-arcs-of-superman-batman-are-in-continuity-1578308/ , http://www.newsarama.com/3831-superman-batman-to-bring-past-present-continuity-in-line.html
6. Yeah...I am not...>_> Also popularity and being the world's favorite son is a bit different.

@squalleon:

I edited my post before you replied, although it posted after.

No, most stories do not agree with you. You merely think they do.

WW and Flash are human, MMH doesn't presume to be a human, isn't accepted as a human.

None of your points support your argument. They support that Superman is popular, they do nothing to show how popular he is relative to other heroes.

I don't expect everything on a plate, but I expect people who make a point to be able to support it when questioned. Thanks for doing so.

You need need to show that Superman far exceeds the other JL members in terms of popularity, and I don't think that's possible because it isn't the case.

1. No but it is the second time he is clean and considered one of the world's greatest heroes.
2. I never said Luthor was a hero. But you brought up examles that he connected with the "Super-heroes" and I said to you that those characters aren't exactly heroes.
3. Not really, very much to the point. You said you considered Osborn, Luthor's equal. And I disagreed.
4. And? It doesn't change the fact that the MCU doesn't trust its heroes as much. That was the beginning of the conversation. Don't lose focus. Meh, Red Son was a lot better, a "evil" Superman that actually WAS Superman.
5. Nah, Superman would actually save both worlds.

1. The difference is that at least I have stories backing me up, you have nothing. An opinion without something to base it on.
2. Exactly he doesn't attack MMH because he isn't ACCEPTED, because he isn't as popular as Superman. Because he isn't as important to the public as Superman, even though he is stronger.
3. I gave good examples but you don't admit them. Superman: peace on Earth, JLA no.4 and more.
4. No prob. But I really don't say something that I am not sure is correct.
5. Again I did.

1. Which once again as I've frequently stated, however you keep loosing the point........is stupid considering what he's done.

2. Yes I did say he was connected with Superheroes, which is why I didn't understand why you bringing up Namor, Frost, and Doom was relevant, considering they weren't what I was referring to. And my prompt response was that Luther's allies aren't exactly saints either.

3. You didn't answer the question. And as I said that's why I said we should agree to disagree on them being equal :)

4. Yet you haven't provided any concrete proof to that. The Legion of Superheroes are trying to commit infanticide as we speak, Martian Manhunter is on bad terms with the League and mind wiped his previous team, Shazam almost started a cross-nation war along with the League and the JLA because of mistrust and egos, Supergirl hates her family LOL and is arrogant, and brash, The JL of America was a counter operations force designed to take down the League among numerous other examples because of Trust Issues. Doomed showed Superman's true inner demons, and what he struggles to hold in. You haven't really defended your point that well. Now that I think about it, the DC guys keep all their hatred in secret more so than the Marvel guys...Ehhhh I disagree on Red Son, I thought it was meh I prefer Injustice :P

5. No, I think he would preach about truth, justice, and the American way, all while everyone is dying around him LOL. Like I said.........our hero <_<

Thor

First and foremost, Lex must have a reason to be jealous of him/her. Secondly, that person must be trusted/loved by the public in such a way that he could convince himself that relationship is actually a detriment to humanity......oh, and that person must be non-human as well...that's a given lol.....

Actually, I can't think of anyone....Captain America was my first choice but I doubt Lex would be jealous of him, and he's a human. Thor was my second choice but he doesn't really fit the second criteria...and he doesn't really have that Icon status that Cap or Supes have......Hmmmm

@squalleon

See, this is why I wanted to stop debating. You having no hard evidence to support your argument, but keep insisting you do. Another misinformed stubborn superman fan it seems like.

1. No, you don't have stories backing you up. They back me up, as Lex has said in several instances he blames Superman for holding back humanity. You're saying that it's because of how popular he is, which is a flawed argument for the reasons I've previously provided. Furthermore, that argument is not directly supported anywhere in a canon story, instead you have to infer it. It's also rather dubious given how popular Batman is within the DCU.
2. Again, to reiterate: Your argument that Lex hating Superman is due to his popularity and not because he holds back humanity is flawed, given a) the relative popularity of the other heroes, b) the fact that is isn't explicitly supported anywhere on panel.
3. Don't twist words. MMH is widely accepted, but he isn't accepted as human, for obvious reasons. Superman is, because of his appearance. That's the difference.
4. Superman being hated for holding back humanity is the only argument that makes sense. He doesn't exceed any other hero significantly in terms of popularity, and is the only alien accepted as human, who humans look up to instead of one of their own.
5. (3) No, your examples don't prove your point. They show that Superman is popular; they don't show that he far exceeds other heroes in popularity. That is the key point to your argument that you have continually failed to support.
6. (4) Apparently you do. Constantly in fact. You just don't realize it.
7. (5) No, You did not, no matter how many times you insist you did. If you really truly believe you did, give the page numbers or scans. We're allowed to upload panels,just not full pages, so have at it.

I'm guess you won't be able to upload a panel showing superman far exceeds the other heroes in popularity, because it's impossible. Without that, your argument is no more valid than mine, yet you refuse to agree to disagree. As such, there is nothing to be gained from discussing this with you further, unless you provide the proof you claim exists.

@muyjingo: No, you don't have stories backing you up. They back me up, as Lex has said in several instances he blames Superman for holding back humanity. You're saying that it's because of how popular he is, which is a flawed argument for the reasons I've previously provided.

Lex says whatever he wants to please his own ego and try to justify the evil that he does. Several stories have made it clear Luthor hates Superman because he was the first person to publicly step up against him (Secret Origins, Birthright, The Man of Steel). Being a alien doesn't matter to him, just look at 52 and how far he went to discredit Supernova/Booster Gold.

Captain America

Agreed, and that makes it troubling to have any one definitive motivation for his anti-Superman crusade.

Bad example. In 52, he was convinced that Supernova was Superman in disguise.

1. I gave you more than 10 examples. Some of them were IN CONTINUITY for a good time or still are. You literally gave nothing! Just an opinion, without any facts behind it. If there is someone that doesn't admit he doesn't know what he is talking about it certaintly isn't me. And even if I am wrong, at least my opinion is formed around solid facts and not hot air.
2. But you haven't provided anything. Seriously see the conversation from the beginning. You have no evidence, zero, nothing. You just say you have but you have not!
3. Its not only about popularity its about the relationship Superman has with the world. They trust him, they love him, they would follow him to death,he is their champion. I don't want to post scans but JLA #4 has the JLA saying to Supes that he should be the one to talk to the people because they are the one who trust and listen to the most. Also Secret Origins has Luthor literally saying "This is my world, my city, none of it belongs to you!" pure jealousy right there.
4. That only supports my argument. I am surpriced you don't see it. So Luthor goes after the one that is accepted from the most part of the world.
5. No it isn't. It is an argument that you think makes sense because Luthor said so. Yet most stories that have touched on the subject make clear Luthor is deep down just jealous and everything else is excuses.
6. Wonder Woman is an immortal amazon made by the gods, why didn't Lex went after her and went after Superman?
7. But they do. Multiple times really.
8. Maybe. But at least I make sure I have something to back me up. You are literally walking on a rope here. No solid evidence, no arguments or examples. Just baseless opinion.

1. Maybe. But it shows Luthor's charisma at least :P
2. Then which Super-heroes he manage to connect? I really don't much about Dark Reign but even Osborn's Avengers were ex-villians posing as Super-heroes. And Sentry was unstable. So which he connected with?
3. Ok but first I will say this Lex's feats are far beyond Osborn's. Lex turned the sun red, managed to become omnipotent and create extrordinary equipments, even learn how to use Kryptonian tech. His feats are far above Osborn's. I will stop it here but Lex's feats show Lex's superiority.
4. Yeah...I give you that, the new 52 isn't the best example of a concrete DCU :/ I guess I agree to disagree, but Red Son is the only "evil" Superman story, I like and will like probably.
5. Or he could put one of the earths to the phantom zone to save both. He has done it before with War World. So I don't see what would stop him from doing it again. See he will preach truth and justice while he saves both worlds ;)

Thor. Luthor hates aliens.

I agree with thor cap and iron man aswell as inhumans and mutants

I would also add Reed Richards. Lex would probably hate the fact that he isnt the smartest person

Good choice! Indeed there would be an interesting dynamic between them.