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#1 Posted by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

Man of Steel is a movie which triggered very mixed reactions. Some find it great, others think it was a failure. What do you think? Is there something missing, wrong or incongruous?

#2 Edited by dbatdog (537 posts) - - Show Bio

you can start at killing Zod...

#3 Posted by Fifthchild (596 posts) - - Show Bio

It was like someone watched Batman Begins and then tried to make a version with Superman without giving much thought about what would and wouldn't actually work.

Thats a fairly glib reply I guess - it had some good points and towards the end of the film I was kind of torn over how i felt about it - there was some stuff i liked or felt was interesting but in my gut i just dont think i really liked a good 60% of what they brought to the table. In the end I guess i settled on the thumbs down. That awful "but hes so hawt!" line probably sealed the deal for me.

Anyway heres a few of my own feelings if anyone still cares:

- Some of the action was amazing. Most of the effects were great. Some were kind of rough (mostly combat related scenes/shots).

- Crowe was great

- Shannon's Zod was pretty meh

- Adams' Lois was disappointingly meh also

- Pa Kent speeches just felt like a bunch of inspirational lines thrown together, like a bunch of stuff Goyer had jotted down on the way to and from meeetings, and thus didnt really have much impact for me

- the mucho controversial Pa Kent death scene (have heard many people talk about how they despise this) was actually probably the only truly emotional moment in the film. But we should have seen more of Clark's grief that his last words to his Dad were basically "F*%$ you Earthman!"

- Final Zod battle was just numbing at that point as others have said. It was a late session and some began leaving the cinema.

- Clark killing Zod felt completely forced - like a blatantly obvious commercial decision to make Superman "edgy and cool". If it was ever going to work this killed it for me.

- Snyder's fully realised Superman is kind of an a$$hole - Superman trashing the billion dollar Predator drone and practically dropping it on the General at the end seemed a bit childish. This might seem perfectly justifiable but IMO its a real danger/mistake to make Superman petulant - with his Godlike powers in comparison to humans it really magnifies his flaws in an unattractive fashion.

While a lot of components were there it basically felt like it was made by an emotionally tone-deaf person.

#4 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

What mostly bothered me were the rants of the discontented fanatics who can't let go of Silver Age goody-two-shoes Superman. Didn't care about collateral damage. That has been explained. Didn't care about killing Zod. Again, that has been explained many times by the MOS apologists. It's just some people are so stubborn and are too closed-minded to accept the arguments for MOS. Of course not all that hated the movie can be grouped with the fanatics. I can name some few who had great points in panning the film. I just think a great chunk of the haters are caused by stupidity and closed-mindedness. But to be fair, some MOS apologists are close-minded themselves.

Other than that, I kinda felt it really really really lacked some humor and lightheartedness. I know it's new take and it's trying to be down-to-earth and realistic and all that. But shouldn't they have known that part of the real world is humor and fun? I'm not asking for a Reeve Superman kinda fun. All I ask are some bits of laughter. That's all. I don't mind it being dark. I just want some patches of colour in there.

Then there was just no chemistry with Lois and Clark. Granted it was not the core theme of the movie, it still did pretty much felt like superficial.

Lastly, and this is not really against the movie and might change in the long run, I hate the fact that he would be joined by Bats in the sequel. I want them to be in a movie together but I don't want it to be forced. Take some time instead of simply cashing in on the idea of superhero team ups to go up against Avengers 2! I especially don't want them to be fighting in a film that would have been filmed during Batman's 75th anniversary! The Batwankers are already arrogantly loud about the fight in Dark Knight Returns... What more when the live-action fight comes out? Oh I wonder whose dick the execs would ride in their decision with the fight's outcome? Hmmmmm...

#5 Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln (921 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman's emotional retardation... so angry, unwise and just to 'teeny'. I don't have anything against eskimo kissing or showing affection.... but when Supes and Lois reuinted during that scene nearing the final battle, i really was bugged at how it felt like a love story, with the notebook-esque touching of the face to face + hands... lol. That's just me, but i don't see supes doing that (especially infront of the daily planet people)

#6 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight against Zod lasted wayyyy longer than it should have.

#7 Posted by JuJuTrain91 (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad:

To quote Geoff Johns, when giving his views on the Batman vs Superman final in the Injustice tournament, and bear in mind that this is a man that the majority of Batfans feel writes Batman extremely poorly and makes him the butt of a lot of jokes, "It might be the year of Superman, but it's the lifetime of the Batman. Batman wins" . That's DCs Chief Creative Officer, during Superman's 75th anniversary no less!

To be honest it will probably be a draw, but otherwise a Batman win. There's no way they will make Superman win because they know that Batman is their cash cow and is insanely popular and they know that the vast majority of people seeing this film will want him to win. He's probably the main selling point and draw for audiences to see this film now (and it's Superman's film!!), he is the reason this film will take in ridiculous numbers at the box office. So they will either make it a draw so that no one gets too upset, or make Bats win because they would be making the majority of the audience happy. If Bats wins the number of comic fans who would be annoyed would probably be insignificant compared to the number of Batfans who would be annoyed if Superman wins.

#8 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17773 posts) - - Show Bio

not enough Lois/clark Dynamic

at some point the action was a bit overdone.

Jor-El owning Zod in a fight. It's cool but he's a scientist, so yeah.

#9 Posted by RedQueen (1171 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, I may be in the minority here, but killing Zod wasn't the biggest problem for me. Both my sister and I came out the showing and said something was missing; essentially it was two big fight scenes (which were awesome) and some filler in between. I missed Smallville, the emotional connection to his hometown.

#10 Edited by Fallschirmjager (16250 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad said:

Other than that, I kinda felt it really really really lacked some humor and lightheartedness. I know it's new take and it's trying to be down-to-earth and realistic and all that. But shouldn't they have known that part of the real world is humor and fun? I'm not asking for a Reeve Superman kinda fun. All I ask are some bits of laughter. That's all. I don't mind it being dark. I just want some patches of colour in there.

Personally, MoS made me chuckle several times in the movie. Most of the jokes are subtle ones, in which 1 or more characters aren't in a position to laugh. It was very refreshing to me because I had gotten tired of the constant quips and quick-witted Superheros with sharp tongues ala MCU. I love RDJ and Spidey and all...but that shouldn't be every character. Its a huge reason I hated Green Lantern - that was NOT Hal Jordan.

For example. In the beginning of the movie when Lois tells Clark "careful, those bags are heavy". It makes me chuckle. The audience knows Superman can lift way more than that, but Lois doesn't. I'm not clutching my stomach in laughter, but it was still light-hearted for me.

Or when the soldiers are walking Supes down in handcuff. They don't know the extent of his powers and that's standard procedure, but the audience is just like "WTF HANDCUFFS? LOL".

Then of course there is Lois' "Welcome to the Planet" line at the end of the movie, which was great.

There are quite a few moments like that. I had no problem laughing during the movie.

Anyways....

On to my main issues with the film - as someone who loves it (saw it 6 times in theaters - personal record. )

  1. Lois and Clark's relationship is underdeveloped and Amy and Henry's chemistry needs work. I loved Cavill and Amy was solid (not bad, not great) but their best scenes are when they are not together unfortunately. It needs to be worked on in future films. I'm not horrible upset about this though - 90% of comic book movie relationships have all sucked ass for me. The only really good ones are Tony/Pepper and Peter/Gwen for me. Cap/Peggy was also positive, although not as good as the other 2. Everyone else has been mediocre at best, and usually pretty bad. So yeah, irked but by no means a game breaker.
  2. Perry White was written wrong. Perry white is a journalist with the same passion as Lois. They want to find the stories and tell them to the world. If Lois ever came to Perry with evidence and eye witness accounts (including her own) of Alien beings on the planet, there is NO WAY he wouldn't publish that story. Lois is a Pulitzer prize winning reporter - there is no one more credible. It was a stupid moment for me. And it felt like the only did it so they could have the blogger out her on TV and the government could pick her up and Superman could talk to her before he goes to what he thinks is probably his death. And then she goes with him -.-. Whatever.
  3. Jenny Olsen. Why was this character changed from a guy to a girl? For gender diversity and no other reason? HORRIBLE reason and HORRIBLE choice. This character served literally no purpose other than to play the cliche damsel in distress. It was stupid. And the film didn't need gender diversity. Faora just kicked enough ass for women for the past 10 years.
  4. The female's soldiers "You're so hot line" was stupid, cliche and unprofessional. She is a Captain in the army in the presence of a (3?) Star General. No soldier I know would act like that in that situation.
  5. Lastly. I think the World Engine scene could have been cut down. We didn't need him fighting the metal tentacles. All it needed was Superman flying towards it, getting sick from the atmosphere and falling under the gravity blast, and then mustering the strength to win anyways. Because we had a longer fight scene with the world engine, I know a lot of people were getting annoying with the fighting by the time we get to Zod vs Superman. (I didn't, but I'd been craving a film where the heroes powers were on full display and no one was holding any punches).

Everything else I liked or loved though. Cavill was fantastic. Shannon's Zod was way better than Stamp's Zod. Faora was absolutely AMAZING. I liked the El's (although it would have been nice to see Lara and Jor-El tutor Kal), I liked the Kents. And I thought Pa's death was actually refreshing in that a character was willing to die for the things he believed in. (He could have gone back to help a person instead of a dog though, but maybe I under estimate how many people would risk their lives for their animals).

And of course the fight scenes were amazing. They were the type of fight scenes I've been waiting for since I first started reading comics and watching cartoons as a kid. No one can shoot fantasy action better than Zack Snyder right now.

#11 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Oy, I'm not going to get into any more arguments because it's really become extremely tedious at this point. Everyone has their own preferences so before this turns into another thread raging about "what should have happened", I'd just like to ask everyone to keep this respectful without turning into another escalated and drawn out argument. Thanks in advance folks!

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#12 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

Snap.

#13 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight against Zod lasted wayyyy longer than it should have.

Yes

Also, every single scene with his father in it was dumb

Also, the idea that he changes identities while hopping form town to town really bugged the hell out of me

#14 Posted by Beerminator1 (353 posts) - - Show Bio

There wasn't enough fighting! I LOVE the movie but seriously, it's less than 7 minutes of the movie that is fighting, I would have wanted to see more! But still, I'm glad that there was any fighting in the movie...

#15 Edited by theoneA7 (24 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me start off by saying that I did not hate the movie. I thought it was pretty good for the most part.

-Action sequences that seemed to be pointless-- Why did he have to fight the world engine for so long? Yes, he should have destroyed it, but the fight with the tentacles was not necessary.

-some of the religious imagery: The scene in the church was not needed. If he wanted to talk to someone about what to do, why not go ask Jor-El?

-Kal-El destroys possibly all connection to Krypton: Why? The Fortress of Solitude was a place that Kal-El could get away and learn more about his Kryptonian heritage. Now, there is nothing. Why did they (the writers) feel the need to destroy all things Kryptonian? There is nothing left for him to know more about who he is.

-Needs to be a reason why Clark is working at the Daily Planet: All throughout the movie, we see Clark go from job to job without no hint of wanting to be in journalism. They all of a sudden, he not only has a job as a reporter, but a reporter for a very well respected paper. I don't think Perry would hire anyone without credentials. Maybe they could've had a scene where Clark writes an article about Superman and gives that to Perry. Perry, possibly impressed with Clark's writing and that they have an interview/article about Superman, gives him a job.

-No acknowledgement of all the destruction and people that died(and there was a lot): The defenders of MoS say "no one complained at the destruction in the Avengers". I'm sure there were complainers, but I think that most people were OK with it because it was not as in your face as Man of Steel; the fighting was not as consistant. They would cut to a scene on the helicarrier sometimes. Not to mention there were several scenes of the Avengers helping people when the attack began (Hawkeye getting people off of the bus, Cap co-ordinating with the cops and later saving the people trapped in the bank). With Man of Steel, we go from a shot of him apparently in pain for something (either killing Zod, or all the destruction that happend), then we cut to a supposed humorous scene of him and the general. I'm sure that the writers thought that a lighter scene was needed after all that destruction. It does not make sense to me that half of a major city gets destroyed and no one says anything about it?

-On a side note. why do the defenders of this film, when asked why didn't deal with the aftermath of Metropolis destruction, say they will address that in the sequel? Isn't that poor storytelling? One of the many things that bugged me about the Amazing Spider-Man is that the film does not seem complete, like they were leaving things for the sequel. The destruction on the city and the public's reaction to Superman should have been in this film, not left for the next one.

the killing of Zod: I do not mind of Superman kills people, but it needs to be a last resort. There were many things that Superman could have done to save that family. He could have blocked the heat vision, flown Zod out of the station, moved the family, etc. The producers said that they needed a reason for him not to kill? Why?

-The main problem I had is with Superman himself. One of my most favorite lines from the film is when Jor-El says "you will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble, they will fall. But in time they will join you in the sun, in time you will help them accomplish wonders." OK, then lets see that. We are told that, so why can't we see it. How many people (other than Lois) does he directly save after donning the costume? He saves the one military guy from the falling chopper, and the family of four but that's it. Superman is supposed to be an inspiration not just to normal humans, but to other heroes as well. Can we honestly say that this Superman is inspirational? When Jenny said "he saved us", I was like "how do you know? You were trapped under rubble for most of the time, and he was fighting the world engine tentacle thing, so how do you know he did that?"

If they had a scene after Zod dies of Superman addressing the survivors of Metropolis telling the people that he is sorry for what has happened and that he is on their side and that they would hopefully come to trust him. Then have a scene where he is cleaning up and looking for survivors. That would not fix everything, but at least the people could see him being heroic.

#16 Posted by d_bones (1398 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't give a crap about perry and the rest of the daily planet crew when they were in mortal danger.

#17 Edited by Wolfrazer (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll admit I haven't seen the movie, but what I have saw(in forms of gifs) or read about. Why is Superman a complete noob with his powers/fighting? Hasn't he been Superman for a good while by the time this movie takes place? So shouldn't he have a good grasp on his powers and all that?

#18 Posted by Ninjablade09 (3145 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish it was little bit more light-hearted and had some more humor, it was too somber and dark. It could have been a Speeding Bullets Batman/Superman mix up movie. I also wasn't a fan of the whole thing with Pa Kent, the thing between him and Clark was just badly written.

#19 Edited by kasino (1715 posts) - - Show Bio

didn't like the acting of Zod, he just looked angry thats about all going for him.

cool with Zod being killed or they needed the negative Zone. no way to move on from another Zod villain with him technically running around the MoS universe

#20 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

Pacing could have been better and there could have been more lighthearted moments.

#21 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (10064 posts) - - Show Bio

They made it about Superman, it would had being better if it was about Batman or Aquaman.

I mean for what i just read, Superman and Wonder Woman fans, can let a film version of the character be a film version of the character.

#22 Posted by TekTheNinja (766 posts) - - Show Bio

there could have been more lighthearted moments.

#23 Posted by Reactor (2485 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight against Zod lasted wayyyy longer than it should have.

Superman fought Zod for a total of like five minutes...

#24 Edited by drgnx (3560 posts) - - Show Bio

You wanna know what bothered me?

The Complainers!!!!

So pretty much

Y'ALL!!!

#25 Edited by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: @theonea7: I blame Jon Peters for the tentacle thing - if you haven't seen it find the video on YouTube of Kevin Smith talking about when he did the Superman script and you'll realise his influences in this movie again. There's even a shot of damn polar bear.

Also, I'll point out that her name isn't Jenny Olsen. Her name was Jenny Jurwich (zoom in photo of her ID card from one of the scenes confirms this). Not that it matters that much, but I recall someone said it annoyed them, when really it shouldn't have technically (although you could argue her character felt like it was supposed to be Jimmy-esque, so in essence he was still replaced - fair point). Blame IMDB for this one as they got it wrong. Personally though I didn't even make the connection between her and Jimmy until I saw someone else talking about it - then found out it was wrong anyway.

I'll admit I haven't seen the movie, but what I have saw(in forms of gifs) or read about. Why is Superman a complete noob with his powers/fighting? Hasn't he been Superman for a good while by the time this movie takes place? So shouldn't he have a good grasp on his powers and all that?

That's a complete and total no. Like not even close. He becomes "Superman" (as in gets his suit and finally discovers he can fly), and the next day he's turning himself over to Zod. Everything in this films timeline happens in about 24 hours from that point. Up till then he's never been in a fight, never used the full extent of his powers and doesn't even know that he has some (like flight). He is, by definition in this film a "noob" - that's why he seems that way.

#26 Posted by Wolfrazer (6352 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6253 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing. My second favorite CBM of all time.

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#28 Edited by BallPointHero (134 posts) - - Show Bio

  • I felt that one of the most important part of Superman's birth was when his parents saw him off and then died in each other's arms. That part of the legacy always spoke about sacrifice, love and bravery to me. Taking that away just to make Zod seem more dangerous wasn't worth it.
  • Child actor's panic attack wasn't good. Took me a minute to even realize what he was shaking about for.
  • Lois Lane's voice was all soft and delicate. Not firm or ballsy. Her script lines were all for a strong Lois, but she was too lukewarm to deliver them.
  • Tooo many lense flares, and there were too many scenes where the camera films some random grass or windowsill before panning to the real start of the scene.
  • The way Jonathan was so calm and still before the hurricane swallowed him, it made the CGI sooo much more obvious. He might as well be on the beach. After his death, Clark lets out a wail or NOOOOO! That part was cliche. I stared ten seconds too long into his mouth than I wanted too.
  • Epic fight with Faora was epic. Faora is the model that WW's super powers should be shaped after. Fearsome, yet feminine. I would pay to see an Amazon version of Faora. That lady was wicked.
  • I was so touched when Perry tried to save a woman trapped under a building, but when he realized that he couldn't(and that the kryptonian death machine's pounding vibrations were going to reach them and kill them)he decided to stay with her and held her hand to let her know that he wouldn't leave her to die alone. I was really surprised at how moving this scene was. This is the only part of the film that I loved. If it weren't so brief, I might've cried. It really says something, when a film's background character outshines the main character.
  • Superman's fight with Zod wasn't so much a fight as much as it was throwing themselves into building after building after building. I was surprised that there was still enough of Metropolis left to crash around in. Add a couple of punches, tackles or whatever, and that was pretty much it.

Sooo...can we replace Lois? I mean, Hollywood replaced a weak Rhodey(Ironman's black bf) and nobody cared. I think it would do the Superman films good if we got Erica Durance in it. Now that woman knows how to play Lois.

My brother is wasn't happy with me for dragging him to the theaters to watch this. We had a dry laugh during the stupid parts though.

#29 Edited by Saint_Wildcard (9959 posts) - - Show Bio

That people cant let go of the Donner films and prefer a safe comedy like Marvel instead of grim realism. For God's sakes people its an origin story, Unlike Batman his need to be a hero doesnt start ti'll he's out of school and in his early 20's so they not only have to justify it but find a way of exposing him to the world instead of him just being on viral videos with him saving cats and old ladies. And Goyer gained major points with me when he said that their might be other meta human superheroes but not as their super persona's. So him saving the world inspires other heroes to come forward.

#30 Edited by consolemaster001 (5127 posts) - - Show Bio

Way too violent.

#31 Edited by Fallschirmjager (16250 posts) - - Show Bio

@wishiwassuperman: Well ok then...weird. She still played the Jimmy Olsen role though - as you said. And her character served no purpose other than to play the damsel in distress.

They should have just had Jimmy. The film didn't need more gender diversity.

#32 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

everythang.

#33 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@hero92: careful. you're ignorance is showing. nobody is comparing it to the doner one. they are comparing him to the comics.

#34 Edited by Exia009 (75 posts) - - Show Bio

I've accepted that films and other media adaptations are going to play fast and loose with the source material, so I'm not too frustrated with the direction that Man of Steel went in with Superman in particular. However, what I do have a problem with is the lack of originality and the pacing. Sure, this is an origin story and there's not much to say about Superman that hasn't already been said, and that's absolutely fine. But whereas Batman Begins grounded the Nolan-verse movies in stark realism, which was in itself a very original approach to the universe, Man of Steel doesn't really have its own schtick. It feels like a broody and dark scifi movie that never really goes beyond the scope of anyone's imagination. The action is brilliant, the acting is good, and there's some real emotional moments there to be had, though. That said, the pacing was god awful. It wasn't enough for me to absolutely hate the film, but the action scene in the very beginning was cringe-worthy and overlong, and all the other action seemed to be smushed into the last 40 minutes of screen time. There were no breathers in that timespan where I could just stop and appreciate for a moment the characters that were fighting on screen or what Superman was feeling at that moment when he was at odds with with the ideals of his origin planet and the ideals of his current home. At the very least, intersperse within the action some touching flashback scenes that are relevant to the challenges Superman faces; in my opinion, the flashbacks with Kevin Costner were the best part of this film.

Oh, also, they did a piss poor job of making Zod likable. Had they omitted the first scene and not made him deranged, his duty to his race would have been an endearing trait that may have made us actually care about what he was fighting for. Ra's in Batman Begins straddled that line pretty well, I think, not necessarily the making us care part, but at least showing us that he had a very good point in wanting to "cleanse" Gotham.

But anywho, that's where I'm at with this film... didn't completely hate it, but it made itself difficult to like.

#35 Edited by Saint_Wildcard (9959 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: MMmmmm, I never said compare, I said they cant let go or that being the perfect Superman. And there are a lot of people.

#36 Edited by PowerHerc (82612 posts) - - Show Bio

The flying Dragon/fantasy aspect of Krypton.

#37 Edited by MonsterStomp (16686 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a little slow to start. I mean we all go to watch Superman to see some action, which doesn't happen until 30 minutes in. After that its awesome. With that being said, Man of Steel is my favourite CBM of all time. Followed by The Dark Knight and Iron-Man 3. Snyder did an awesome job and I can't wait until he tops that with Batman v Superman.

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#38 Posted by DRUDOX19 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Only thing that bugged me was the lack of references to other characters in the Superman universe. Where was General Sam Lane and John Corben they could have easily been in MOS has characters. We dint need this new random general dude why didn't we get Sam Lane. I mean it could have explained everything with Lois being involved in the military in the whole film do you think?

#39 Posted by fabo_puertorican (19 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to start of by addressing what was good about the film. Of course, I'm going to start by Hans Zimmer's beautiful, dark, inspirational soundtrack which lead to brilliant Kevin Costner scenes with young Clark. Also, it started of with a bang and a good General Zod. Not good as in good guy or bad guy, but good as a likeable villan, but that's where it everything goes haywire. Well, not there, but after all that. After some great Costner scenes, which to be honest where the best part of this 6/10 movie ( in my opinion ) there was horrible dialogue by David S. Goyer. Lines like "he's kind of hot" just ruined the whole thing for me. Lois was simply a dull character.

The action...the action was ok. Finally, Superman action that is moving at actual Superman pace, BUT it felt a bit... A LOT like Dragon Ball Z, in my opinion. Destroying basically half the city? Seriously? After that happened he just goes to the Daily Planet like nothing ever happened.

Soundtrack... i already said it was amazing, what I haven't said was that it is amazing on its own. During the fight scenes it really didn't fit that well. I don't know if its Zimmer's fault ( of course not). Snyder's or maybe even Superman's fault!

Last but not least, Zod's death. That is all.


Of course, I cannot make something better, but as a film fan and a comic book fan I really wanted to enjoy this and I couldn't :(

#40 Posted by theviperrko (369 posts) - - Show Bio

The plot.