#1 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I just want to clarify a few things that were revealed in Superman 23.3 aka H'el #1.

H'el is the product of just some Krytonian cells Jor-El launched into space? (And radiation he encountered turned them into "superman cells" & he regenerated into a person? -- I'm guessing) And his name is just taken from "House of El" written on the ship (but only the H & el were visible to him)? Where did his memories come from? Did his mind just create them (once he had formed) as a way to rationalize this crazy existence he came into? (And carving the hope/house of el symbol into his chest - albeit mirrored- (where it scarred) as a way of "belonging")

Although it hasn't answered a lot of what H'el on Earth left hanging (regarding how his powers became so advanced), it's still nice to see that they're basically confirming Superman's (& other Kryptonian's) powers are psionically based. H'el stating he could whipe the minds of people in a single thought -- and that was while being an astral projection while his physical body was unconscious, using TK to rip his doctors apart, Jor-el even hypothesizes chronal (aka time) related abilities. (And we already have seen his abilities to teleport, create TP illusions, shrink & un-shrink people). I know a lot of people didn't like him but I'm glad that Kryptonian powers are being explored & elaborated on through him (making it deeper than "he's got solar energy so now he's got powers!" .....although according to this issue they're still sticking to cell-absorption being the sole source of energy).

#2 Posted by Saint_Wildcard (10189 posts) - - Show Bio

He'l Arc was badass. I dont care what other people say, I loved seeing what Superman can do like punching He'l and the earth shaking and being felt in the atmosphere.

#3 Posted by TheAmazingImmortalMan (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@hero92 said:

He'l Arc was badass. I dont care what other people say, I loved seeing what Superman can do like punching He'l and the earth shaking and being felt in the atmosphere.

I loved that arc too. I enjoyed the part about Supes punches shaking the earth as well. Supergirl vs Wonder Woman was great, I thought it was a good 'Super Family' event.

#4 Edited by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingimmortalman: @hero92: ....have either of you read this issue and are able to answer the Q? lol. My guy is "yes" to all those things, but it was not incredibly clear in the issue. It was just a bunch of cut-off thoughts/sentences where the characters were in shock ("But that means....." etc).

#5 Edited by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: dude the kryptonian powers are not psionically based. TK , Astro protection and telepathy are powers he got after gaining so much power from various suns and stars. Also it's been stated quite a lot that superman gets his powers for the sun

#6 Posted by stephens2177 (1031 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: actually that would still make them kryptonian based,you said yourself he gained those powers from being exposed to various suns and stars,maybe black holes.which means of superman was exposed to the same things,for the same amount of time,he also would get them.kryptonians are cosmic energy sponges,superman has regulated himself to one solar system,with one yellow sun,H'El was not,so kryptonians have the potential to broaden and boost their powersets by just seeking out other things they can absorb.

#7 Posted by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: no I was correcting the OP he said that all powers that a kryptonian has are psyconicaly based meaning heat vision and super strength everything was psyconic in nature.

#8 Posted by stephens2177 (1031 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: oh ok,well yeah if he can BOOST himself physically,what's to say he can't BOOST himself mentally,they both should be possible,just that the physical is much more obvious and automatic.

#9 Posted by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: I'm all well and good with supes getting new powers under a different couloed sun. But havering all his powers be based of mental powers is just dumb.

#10 Posted by stephens2177 (1031 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: agreed,I would rather it just be explained as the sun or cosmic energy boosting what normal processes kryptonians have to godlike levels.we are physical,and mental,they both should be able to be boosted.

#11 Edited by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: It's not stated they are psionically based, but large objects don't crumble when Superman lifts them - therefore there must be something that maintains their structural integrity (like a tactile-kinesis or similar). Without it they should be crumbling under their own weight. It's just logical. Psionics are the easiest "grand unifier" for all of Superman's powers. Just read Irredeemable to see the same power-set explained this way (or just find the scans posted for any battle the Plutonian was in). (Maybe you don't want to put any science into comics, but when it's something this simple (the crumbling part) - I think it's almost necessary to theorize beyond what we're told in the comics. I mean...."gets his energy from the sun" is more of an 'all ages' explanation than one with deeper thought into it).

Also, thanks for hijacking the thread and answering none of the questions.

#12 Posted by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: dude supes doesn't have TK and never will under a yellow sun but their is nouthing from stoping the writers from giving him that power or any other Psy powers when he is under another colour of star or sun. Also your welcome

#13 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: Re-read my post & stop being a smart-ass. I never said he had telekinesis. I said that just because someone has powerful muscles, doesn't mean they can lift anything. A large object would collapse under their own weight. Unless you are "grabbing" it all over with some sort of energy to hold it together, it's going to happen (a giant rock crumbling, a plane breaking into pieces, etc etc). I never said this was said in the comics -- just that it's obvious something else is at work here for physics to be violated in this way. If you have just a little scientific knowledge, it only takes a little logic to reach this conclusion.

#14 Posted by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: dude you are over thinking this. The reason it can happen is because it's a comic ie not real.

#15 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: Wow, I feel bad if you get that worked up by people trying to discuss the science of comics (which wasn't even the purpose of this thread. If you read this issue you could have had the decency to give you input there). Comics incorporate a ton of science themselves. They are constantly using scientific terminology when describing feats. (Many feat/battle threads incorporate ideas like "Well ____ survived a bomb of this magnitude so he would/wouldn't be able to survive this other thing"). Is it wrong for me as the reader to expect at least some scientific consistency? Are you barring me from discussing these ideas on a public forum? (Which again, wasn't even the point).

#16 Edited by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: in what way did you think I got ''worked up'' also I have never read a comic especially a superman one that used scientific terminology to describe a feat.

#17 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21740 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: H'el was a kryptonian that was sent into space (not long before krypton exploded). in space he fell victum to black holes and other color stars. after krypton died he was affected by that as well. Supermans ship went straight to earth. Hels floated aroung in space for much longer. Hel at the end of Hel on earth gets sent back in time to krypton, roughly 10 years before he left. so supposedly theres a young version of him running around.

Those are my ideas, IIRC

#18 Posted by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't been able to figure out the story from H'el #1 yet... And I've read it 3 times. It makes no sense. How could he have created himself to begin with? Where did the memories come from? If he killed Jor'el and Zod, how the hell does Superman even exist? And he had to have killed Jor'el, as that was the moment of his creation... Jor'el never actually created him at all based on that issue... Time travel stories hurt my brain.

#19 Edited by stephens2177 (1031 posts) - - Show Bio

@wishiwassuperman: I thought he was one of the samples of different DNA that jor sent off into space,to see what the effects from cosmic stuff would play on them?

#20 Posted by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: Nah, look at the panels carefully and he removes the existing samples and puts his own in there. Jor'el even says that's what he is going to do when he's talking to Zod while they watch him approach on the monitors. He replaces the samples. That's why I'm more confused now than I was originally...

#21 Edited by UltimateSMfan (1411 posts) - - Show Bio

Some good insights here,i didn't understand this issue at all after page 5, re-reading it now from different points of view, hope it begins to make sense.

#22 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@wishiwassuperman: Oh god, I wasn't sure what he was doing at the end - if that's true, that's too much. Paradoxes like that are always ridiculous.

Regarding why Superman now isn't dead, they may play the "going back in time creates a parallel timeline & you can never truly alter your own timeline" card.

#23 Posted by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

I do know it's leading to the next story arc - apparently Superman travels back to Krypton through time, I guess following H'el? I'm intrigued to see how they get any of this to make sense at all.

#24 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@wishiwassuperman: Oh god! I don't read comic-news so I didn't know that. At least I'm prepared for that now, less the blow/prepared for confusion... :-/

#26 Edited by toptom (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

@wishiwassuperman said:

I haven't been able to figure out the story from H'el #1 yet... And I've read it 3 times. It makes no sense. How could he have created himself to begin with? Where did the memories come from? If he killed Jor'el and Zod, how the hell does Superman even exist? And he had to have killed Jor'el, as that was the moment of his creation... Jor'el never actually created him at all based on that issue... Time travel stories hurt my brain.

Actually the only thing that doesn't make sense is the fact that H'el has got some memories of his inexsistent past. Then he has killed jor-el but that simply means another timeline will be deprived of its superman, but "our timeline" is still intact.

It is more or less like Futurama, when Fry discovers that he is his grandfather...probably i am one of the few who likes this paradoxs,but i feel that they wraps time stories nicely.

What i didn't like about that issue is the fact that H'el comes from a bunch of cells, he wasn't even a human being! i think that it would have been much better if H'el himself had pushed his previous self into that ship.

Then i wonder when we'll know the story behind the scar on his chest too..

#27 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom: When Jor-El commented on the shield on his chest, it seemed (to me) like it had to do with his subconscious creation of memories - that because he believed himself to be a friend of Jor-El, he carved it into himself (albeit backwards) to feel more like a part of Krypton. (Speaking of which...how would he know the name Jor-El if he started as cells? Even if the cells came from someone who knew Jor-El a few cells removed from a body wouldn't hold a memory like that....whatever, lol).

#28 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

He'l is so cool what a startling revelation.

#29 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptom: Of coarse he's not human!! There were reguler kryptonion cells in the ship though he might have more than just kryptonion DNA.

#30 Edited by w0nd (3281 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180 said:

@lightsout: dude supes doesn't have TK and never will under a yellow sun but their is nouthing from stoping the writers from giving him that power or any other Psy powers when he is under another colour of star or sun. Also your welcome

superboy had tactile tk and in some stories superman had a bioaura which was basically the same thing. which is pretty much a tk aura around his body, which also physically manifested themselves. You may not like it but that's what some stories had his powers as. In one story I will have to find it, He mentioned by holding a child close enough his bio aura would protect it as well. Same reason in some stories his clothes don't burn and shred off. I consider an invisible force field around your body some kind of tk or psi power lol

#31 Posted by stephens2177 (1031 posts) - - Show Bio

Not to mention now he is bursting with psionic energy,either the bio aura or a psionic defense,he does have psionic abilities or potential,it's fact.

#32 Posted by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: I am aware of that but the OP said all of Supermans powers where psychically based also you are right I am not a fan of the bio aura thing.

#33 Edited by w0nd (3281 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: action comics 24 someone is bound to ask where you saw this and argue lol