@jogga said:
@squalleon: Half of the stories you mentioned aren't even because he's been hanging out with the wrong crowd. Red Son's plot happened due to Superman's communist beliefs, Kingdom Come happened because of both the the loss of his loved ones and the loss of his faith in people MADE him seclude himself from the outside world entirely and NOT just the people, Justice Lords happened because of the Flash's death made them tyrannical overlords that lobotomized people on the spot (and I don't know about you, but that seems very much inaccurate of what Supes would really do). None of those stories involving Superman made him into a tyrant devoid of humanity just because he hangs out with other heroes too much.
- Not really. Red Son became a tyrant because he wanted to protect and he was top authority without a civilian identity to remind him of the small picture, he was never Clark. Luthor actually "saved" him in the end.
He became a tyrant because of his misguidedness, which was attributed by his upbringing in communist Russia.
- Kingdom Come had Superman losing his way after everyone of his human cast died, including his civilian identity. Clark was dead and Superman lost his way, which he found again when a human pointed him in the right direction and he adopted Clark again.
KC lost his way because the people started choosing Magog's ways instead of him right AFTER the death of his loved ones. It was a culmination of many things that lead to Superman losing his faith in humanity. Kingdom Come is a dystopia, a lighter one compared to DKR but a Dystopia nonetheless, with Wonder Woman killing n' stuff. This is a story of ALL Superheroes losing their way after Superman stops being Superman.
- The Justice Lords parallel's the idea that the JL became more and more self-righteous and secluded, broken into military instalations, hidden mass destruction weapons etc. The Justice Lord incident actually reminded them what could happen. Its one of the main themes in the whole series.
Yes, Justice Lords made them reflect their decisions in doing shady things instead of cooperating. But that really doesn't do anything for the argument that Superman being around Superpowered people is a bad thing.
- Twillight had Superman be full time Superman, no more Clark Kent, married to Wonder Woman as the head of the five tyrannical houses of Super-heroes.
Moore also made several superheroes be Perverts, Murderers, and Tyrants and then had them die in the end of the story. I'd hardly call that an accurate point of view as to what would happen if Supes started hanging out with Superpowered people more than his human friends.
All of them have Superman becoming more Superman and putting Kent in the sidelines.
You know who what OTHER stories had Superman be more Superman than Clark? All-Star Superman, Superman the Movie, and Superman II, all of which are considered to be the best Superman stories to date. Even in the Superman NOW story we both morn we never come to pass, Morrison, Waid, and Millar all had made Clark a disguise and Superman the real guy, only the values the Kents had bestowed upon him still strongly etched at his center.
Superman like any other Super-hero are authority figures and every authority figure to not be corrupted must remember who they fight for. For Superman to be that, he must be Clark, but with no human cast, Clark has no reason of existence, hence Superman is always Superman.
It's never been Clark that was important to Supes' humanity. It's actually the values that were attributed to Clark by the Kents. Half of the Superman stories we have had Clark be the wimpy nerd with a different appearance and demeanour to throw off suspicion, while the REAL Clark was alive inside Superman.
It's not like I'm saying Clark should ditch the glasses and more than half of his supporting cast, I'm not DC, I'm just saying that Superman hanging out with other superpowered people doesn't lessen him as a character.
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