Run vs Run.

Joe Kelly's Action comics vs Grant Morrison's Action Comics. Which if these two runs were better from a characterization, plot and ideological point of view?

Μοrrison's by far. Even at his worst he was still enjoyable and full of ideas.

Kelly's run suffered from constant crossovers with titles by other writers and artists making most of that era an inconsistent mess. Although his one-shots are brilliant.

Morrison easy. Especially if you count All Star along with it its not even a fair contest.

Kelly still had a strong run though one of the best but no one can beat Morrison

Morrison's run.

I have to ask. I read hundreds of comics with Superman during Pre-New-52 period, but done so without paying attention who were authors and artists in that time. So, when was Kelly’s run, which issues did he write?

Most likely though I’ll choose Morrison anyway (he is one-of-kind-writer when it comes to Superman, doesn’t matter which era or Supes’ incarnation).

You're on a wiki site so you can check out the issues he wrote for yourself.

Issues #760-813 of Action Comics, though.

BB

I still haven't read Kelly's run yet, but I know that it is pretty good.

It is. One of the best IMO. Well worth your time.

I will most definitely try it out soon.

Great hope you enjoy it. You should check out Loeb's Superman stuff as well. Extremely overlooked and it was going on at the same time as Kelly's so we were getting 2 of the best Superman runs at the same time. Happy Reading :)

Jeph Loeb's run has been on my radar for quite some time, but I have never heard that many good words for it.

Really. It's generally highly praised from what I've seen and at the time of all those runs was the most critically acclaimed of the bunch. I feel as though people just trash on Loeb for the sake of just trashing him. His DC work is nothing short of spectacular but I agree most of his Marvel work leaves something o be desired (save for the Spidey Blue, Daredevil Yellow, Hulk Gray, Fall of the Hulks/WWHulks, Fallen Son and Ultimate X)

Loeb's run is senseless fun and very entertaining if you want a fun lighthearted story, especially his one-shots.

Like Kelly's run, the Superman titles were usually crossovered together and as a result most of that era's stories were very inconsistent. So be careful of what you buy since most of that era's tpbs are collections of all the THEN Superman titles.

If you want to check Loeb's and Kelly's run, I would recommend the DC Comics Presents: Superman series, collection of the best stories from that era :)

@squalleon: I loved the marriage aspect. His relationship with Perry, all the stuff with Lex and all the moments with Ma and Pa in Smallville. Fantastic art from McGuinnessMcGuinness. Made Superman a force to be reckoned with again (much like Pak for Hulk). Loeb's Superman was the first I read religiously when I was a wee little lass. Fond memories of that time.

I have read only instances of the run since most are part of a bigger crossover story and most of the times those stories were meh :P But I loved some of Loeb's work, his writing and Mc Guinness' art fitted very well together and the result was a nice almost cartoonish fun story to contrast the more serious Superman titles out there.

I would have that in my mind. I have always been interested in both of these guys' runs. I've heard only good stuff about Kelly's run and about Loeb's run - it has Edd McGuiness on art duties.

@sog7dc Would you mind if I hijacked the thread?
I think this would be a nice opportunity to put some other Vs here for other great runs that are often missed or pass under the radar.

Yep. Ed is a fantastic artist one of the best Superman artists I might add.

Same here

@squalleon: go for it, man.

Thank you :)

Lets start with something more known to build up some audience:

@lvenger@smash_brawler@sanohibiki@superguy1591@saint_wildcard@theincrediblesuperhulk864@z3ro180@ultimatesmfan

Jurgens' Superman(Not New 52)
VS Byrne's Superman (Everything he wrote, including the mini).

VS

@squalleon:

I'm already leaning Jurgens just because I always get sucked in when I read from his run. I usually just find myself wanting to "fix" things Byrne wrote. I also enjoy Jurgens' art far far more than Byrne's. They both did a great job of fully incorporating the world around Superman and even adding to that world, though. I just really enjoy Jurgens' run a lot more.

If this is gonna involve Pre 52 stories, I'm not gonna be of any use

You really need to read some pre-52 as well lol

NEVER! NEW 52 FOREVER!

At some point I will. But from the little I've read (some by Grant MOrrison) he seems way too stiff for my taste.

Read some stuff by Geoff Johns, Joe Kelly, and Mark Waid to name a few. If you liked Morrisons action run, Johns current run, or even Paks current action run, you'll definitely like the aforementioned writers.

@squalleon: Everything Byrne wrote?

Even that Big Barda/Superman "porno" issue?

Or do we just ignore that?

I like Bryne.

Wasn't afraid to take risks with the scout. I can't think of anything from Jurgens that I liked.

@squalleon: Aggh both were fantastic. But I give my vote to Byrne less boggled by crossovers, better art and just a little more enjoyable.

@saint_wildcard: Should read more Pre 52 Superman. Anything withwith Jerry Siegel, Otto Binder, Elliot S! Maggin, John Byrne, Dan Jurgens, Roger Stern, Joe Kelly, Jeph Loeb, Greg Rucka, Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison is a must read for Superman fans.

You must have missed this

If Grant MOrrision is the best Pre 52 Superman writer, I'm weary about reading any Pre 52 at all...... but, I will try later on when more free time and cash are available

@saint_wildcard: Hmmmm I mean its all a matter of opinion. But have you read All Star. You should. I think the more you read the more you will get into the character and his stiffness might not bother you as much. Maybe not but hey never hurts to try

Well, there aren't any other complete New 52 runs worth talking other than Morrison's :P

Especially that. That is comic book history at its finest.

Personally I don't agree with most of Byrne's changes on the character and he gave us some of the worst Superman moments imo. But on the other hand I have only read the "essentials" of Jurgens' run and I wasn't blown away, my favorite is the Time and Time again story which was a crossover and had plenty of talent on it.

Oh good one

"Complete" being the key word, which other New 52 run worth mentioning has ended? Lobdell's?

Yeah, I liked it. But unlike most people who weren't Superman fans, read it and then gained a new appreciation for Superman that didn't happen with me. Nor did it happen with Superman vs the Elite. I like Pak's Superman the best. He feels like a normal dude to me, a friend and not an icon/teacher. So if you got any stories where he feels like that, I'm open to suggestions.

I'm not good at all these technicalities and lawyer jibber jabber.

Whoever wants to argue, argues :P

@sog7dc@squalleon@jogga

I heard about the Barda porn....I'm assuming you all HATED that lol?

Also why do some Superman fans dislike Byrne's changes or how he wrote Superman...what exactly turned you off?

Jack Kirby is probably continuously rolling in his grave every time somebody reads that issue. It's been described as the only black mark in Bryne's Superman run.

Also, I can't exactly judge. I haven't read the entirety of Bryne's run. So I can't exactly say it was a masterpiece or trash.

Barda porn? What issue are you talking about?

Byrne. Jurgens was so boring.

Jurgens.

Anything good Bryne did is filled with the note 'but' and 'Wolfman used it better without the negative'.

Call me when we actually get to the good Pre New 52 stuff. Don't much want to read through Wilcard's BS opinions on how 'stiff' Pre New 52 Superman supposedly was either. Falser statements have never been made.

Ouch, that hurt. Flagged.

For me it would be some idiotic changes, like the Birth matrix. Clark's personality that just turned me off. And of course Byrne was the one that made Superman kill without the balls to make him redeem himself. Byrne's last issue had Superman killing merciless three people, he didn't even stay to redeem Superman, Jurgens had to deal with the fallout.

Didn't you know that Superman made a porno with Big Barda once? I think in AC 592. Wasn't Byrne full of ideas :P

@saint_wildcard: But was he really wrong? No. No he wasn't.

A true friend you are

Okay, lets follow with something more unknown yet very good.

Greg Rucka's Adventures of Superman VS Mark Millar's Superman Adventures

VS

With slight margin Byrne wins it imo. I don’t like some things which he introduced into Superman’s lore, but his talent as writer compensates for it. Jurgens, on the other hand, nothing really remarkable about his run (though I like his art).

@squalleon said:

Action Comics #592 and #593, to be precise.

Wasn't Byrne full of ideas :P

Or full on crack...