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#1 Posted by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

ok I have a problem with superman being hurt by a manmade weapon and not being able to detect bruce with his senses.....im fuming right now! what do you guys think?

#2 Edited by Kellerman (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Its stupid. And pathetic to be honest, now I wont bother reading the rest of this Unchained series. I'm going to stick to my Injustice comic.

#3 Posted by sage1000 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah it was annoying, but in theory the weapons that hurt him and the suit in theory make sense. The idea that it was humans that made it was annoying but it is forgiven cause I like the idea that there are things that escape the scope of Superman's power

#4 Posted by SanoHibiki (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

Feeling confused and angry. Maybe Clark cant see Bruce in this undetectable costume, but what about superhearing (or even supersmell) ? In one of Superman issues Lobdell gave Clark some sonar ability - what he hears, his brain can translate it in visual image.

And that tank. It didnt look like kryptonite-magic- or red sun-based. How the ... one blast managed to hurt Supes so much ?

There only one reason to continue read Unchained - Jim Lee's art

#5 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

Um... I'm pretty sure this was explained. The suit was able to work against him in the electromagnetic spectrum, and the man-made weapons were basically anti-sunlight (at least, the name "Black hole bullets" seems to indicate that), so it's a new weakness.

#6 Edited by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

typical DC pandering to street level BS

#7 Posted by SanoHibiki (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

Um... I'm pretty sure this was explained. The suit was able to work against him in the electromagnetic spectrum, and the man-made weapons were basically anti-sunlight (at least, the name "Black hole bullets" seems to indicate that), so it's a new weakness.

Well, that goes without saying. Its just like...Well..

I dont mind that Batman's suit was invisible to vision, but what about other senses ? Why Clark wasnt used superhearing ? He can hear bloodstream, and dont even remind me about heartbeat.

And about "Black hole bullets". Before 52-Universe everyone and their grandparents have a chank of kryptonite in their pockets. Now that kryptonite became more rare subctance ( for now, at least) they start inventing new weaknesses instead of creating nice plot in comics.

#8 Edited by UltimateSMfan (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

Simple science dude if he's attacked by multiple "black hole lasers" it should affect him (personally i hated that,as you said Supes shldnt be hurt by manmade weapons,would've been better if it was some alien tech) but where the batman thing is concerned bruce is still an idiot( its just snyder trying to make batman seem like more of a challenge for clark) why are writers forgetting that superman has super senses 100 times stronger then daredevil's? Superman could still hear him and smell him even if he couldn't see him.

#9 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

#10 Posted by sage1000 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@sanohibiki: Superman was not actively looking for Bruce, Bruce just told him to try finding him using his vision. if he was he would have found him in a heartbeat, if you notice he wasn't surprised when Bruce appeared. The black hole bullet is not a new weakness, it is simply taking advantage of his power set, he is basically a solar battery and the bullets supposedly anti-sunlight so it fits as much as it can in a comic.

Yeah it sucks that it was man-made it would be way better it would be way better if it was alien in origin but that said I can always assume it is alien until it is said otherwise.

#11 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@sage1000:

Wouldn't there be like a Batman cookie cutter outline in the middle of where his x-ray vision was looking. Left side goes through the wall (insert Batman here) right side goes through the wall.

#12 Posted by sage1000 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: The suit supposedly adapts to prevent detection from any wave on the electromagnetic spectrum. BS I know but it's a comic

#13 Edited by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

Im glad that manmade weapons can hurt him. If they couldn't then whats the point of lex luthor

#14 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

Im glad that manmade weapons can hurt him. If they couldn't then whats the point of lex luthor

''Miracles don't exist but Lex Luthor does'' Lex isn't just an ordinary man. if he designed those cannons i wouldn't be totally opposed to them.

#15 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19 said:

Im glad that manmade weapons can hurt him. If they couldn't then whats the point of lex luthor

''Miracles don't exist but Lex Luthor does'' Lex isn't just an ordinary man. if he designed those cannons i wouldn't be totally opposed to them.

he still is a man.

#16 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19 said:

Im glad that manmade weapons can hurt him. If they couldn't then whats the point of lex luthor

''Miracles don't exist but Lex Luthor does'' Lex isn't just an ordinary man. if he designed those cannons i wouldn't be totally opposed to them.

They never said who designed them. He very well could have.

#17 Edited by MuyJingo (1792 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? I thought it was very well done.

Before the New 52, Batman has shown the ability to evade Superman by hiding his heartbeat. The way they explained his suit here, it makes perfect sense.

I'm not sure why the manmade weapon was a problem. It only incapacitated him, we don't know if he would have overcome it or not.

#18 Posted by SanoHibiki (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19:

Point of Lex Loser is using or reverse-engineering some stolen alien tech.

But if seriously, I prefer stories when Lex trying to manipulate people consciousness, trying to turn people against Superman. When he building robots, costumes and ect., in “mind vs. muscle” Lex ends trying use muscle against muscle, and since its strongest side of Superman, Lex going to be Loser again and again.

@sage1000:

Kryptonite, red sun radiation, magic – they all taking advantage of Superman’s power set, they are his weaknesses, and because of that I call this "Black hole bullets" new weakness.

All my rant simply because my favorite character, who, by the way, has patented invulnerability, bleeds, ends tossed around and outsmarted nearly in every issue of his comics.

#19 Edited by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

Really? I thought it was very well done.

Before the New 52, Batman has shown the ability to evade Superman by hiding his heartbeat. The way they explained his suit here, it makes perfect sense.

I'm not sure why the manmade weapon was a problem. It only incapacitated him, we don't know if he would have overcome it or not.

it looked like it almost killed him. He was bleeding out of his nose and ears.

#20 Posted by MuyJingo (1792 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19: We've seen that before with sonic weapons used on Superman though.

#21 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@sanohibiki: most of the time lex makes his own weapons from his own mind. He doesn't reverse engineer alien tech all the time

#22 Edited by LaserLambert (636 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought the suit was stupid, especially if it comes back later as a lame chekhov's gun plot point.

#23 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1235 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

ok I have a problem with superman being hurt by a manmade weapon and not being able to detect bruce with his senses.....im fuming right now! what do you guys think?

@sog7dc: Its fucking stupid. And pathetic to be honest, now I wont bother reading the rest of this Unchained series. I'm going to stick to my Injustice comic.

You two take fanboyism to a whole new level.

#24 Posted by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123:

1. What about him hearing bruce's heart beat? Or smelling him. Or hearing him talk for goodness sakes they were talking to eachother

2. And superman is the ONE character that does not need any new weaknesses

#25 Edited by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@theocitylegend: That's crap. How am

I exhibiting "fanboyism" because I'm upset my favorite character was written horribly? He can hold a black hole with one hand but shoot him with "black hole bullets" and he damn near dies. He can hear a cry for help from " a million miles away" but he can't hear bruce's heartbeat? It's like Thor being hurt by lightening or batman being scared of the dark or spiderman not being able to climb a wall or wolverine not having a healing factor. It's in blatant conflict with the characters abilities! And why should we not be upset about this???

Edit: for goodness sake he took omega beams to the back a few months ago and suffered less damaged!

#26 Edited by SanoHibiki (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19: First sentence was intended to be a joke. Sorry if I confused you. I dont mind of Lex pulling new toys out of nothing and Supes eventually crushing them.

@sog7dc: Agree on both points.

#27 Posted by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh and lets not forget that Snyder is about to introduce a character that is stronger than superman. Remember what Bruce said "he may even be more powerful than you" an then says something about sloth new character aborting sunlight at a higher rate than superman.....ugh why does dc hate superman in the new 52

#28 Posted by Kellerman (50 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Edited by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@kellerman: Apparently these "black hole tanks" are more powerful than darksied, helspont and h'el because none of them hurt supes as much as these tanks did

#30 Posted by MuyJingo (1792 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@theocitylegend: That's crap. How am

I exhibiting "fanboyism" because I'm upset my favorite character was written horribly? He can hold a black hole with one hand but shoot him with "black hole bullets" and he damn near dies. He can hear a cry for help from " a million miles away" but he can't hear bruce's heartbeat? It's like Thor being hurt by lightening or batman being scared of the dark or spiderman not being able to climb a wall or wolverine not having a healing factor. It's in blatant conflict with the characters abilities! And why should we not be upset about this???

Edit: for goodness sake he took omega beams to the back a few months ago and suffered less damaged!

Bruce has shown previously he can hide his heartbeat from Superman. That was pre new 52, but no reason to assume the suit doesn't have similar technology.

Holding a black hole with one hand sounds like PIS, equally as ridiculous as being able to see to the end of the universe.

I think the fanboy accusation is based on the fact that what we saw was completely reasonable, but you seem upset because it showed superman as something less than omnipotent.

#31 Posted by darkman61288 (770 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: I thought Black holes were fatal to him.

#32 Edited by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo:

1. There is no reason to assume that it does but let's go ahead and assume that it blocks supes from hearing the heartbeat. How about hearing hi voice??????!

2. Ok let's say it was PIS. that would make these tanks more powerful than darksied, helspont and h'el. Because none of them hurt superman as much as these tanks did

3. It was completely unreasonable. If humans can make a "superman" stronger than the real one, AND make weapons that can kill the real one then why does the world need superman at all?????

Edit: and I don't want him omnipotent I never said I wanted him omnipotent but I do want him powerful and I do want him consistent. And just for the record Bruce making something that keeps superman from hearing his heart beat is PIS in an of itself

#33 Posted by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkman61288: He actually held one in his hand before. I don't have the scam but you can google it pretty easy.

#34 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@darkman61288: He actually held one in his hand before. I don't have the scam but you can google it pretty easy.

#35 Edited by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Edited by Dernman (15237 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets not forget that the government had control of this super for years before Superman showed up? I thought that was very stupid. It takes away from the shock and surprise of Superman fist showing up.

They would be less concerned when they have someone stronger in their control?

Why be as surprised that a being like this exists when they already have one?

Why create Majestic when they already have someone?

Hell why didn't they use this guy more often to deal with their problems?

There are more thing but I'm lazy.

#37 Posted by MuyJingo (1792 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@muyjingo:

1. There is no reason to assume that it does but let's go ahead and assume that it blocks supes from hearing the heartbeat. How about hearing hi voice??????!

2. Ok let's say it was PIS. that would make these tanks more powerful than darksied, helspont and h'el. Because none of them hurt superman as much as these tanks did

3. It was completely unreasonable. If humans can make a "superman" stronger than the real one, AND make weapons that can kill the real one then why does the world need superman at all?????

Edit: and I don't want him omnipotent I never said I wanted him omnipotent but I do want him powerful and I do want him consistent. And just for the record Bruce making something that keeps superman from hearing his heart beat is PIS in an of itself

1. There is a reason to assume that it does, simply because Clark couldn't find him. As for his voice, again, Bruce has evaded Clark in the past while talking to him. You're probably going to hate this answer, but it's to do with Bruce's ninja training, knowing how to project his voice. Just because Superman has better hearing doesn't mean he isn't subject able to those techniques.

2. I wouldn't say that's true, they could have hurt him more. What we saw was a lot of blood and him being in pain. The blood doesn't mean much....getting a blood nose will cause a lot of blood to come out, but hurts a hell of a lot less than getting hit in other ways that leave no mark.

3. To this I would say lets not jump to conclusions, and wait for the story to unfold.

How is Bruce making something to hide his heartbeat from Superman PIS?

#38 Edited by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo:

1. So superman can her through the vaccuum of space but bruce's great voice skills help him avoid him? And there is no reason to assume that it's just bad writing. A good writer would have written it down that supes couldn't hear him.

2.the same guy that drew him getting hit by darksied drew this and supes appeared to be in ALOT more pain here. We saw more actual physical evidence of pain here than in those other instances

3. I'm not jumping to conclusions at all. They made a superman that absorbs sunlight at a higher rate than superman=fact. They made weapons that can kill superman=fact. Like I said before my opinions are based on facts here

And I addresses this earlier but I'll say it again. Superman hearing through the vaccuum of space and not hearing bruce's heartbeat because of a machine Bruce made? That's not even plausible

#39 Posted by Kellerman (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Man your owning him so bad, "Ninja Training lawl."

#41 Posted by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@kellerman: I actually really really want him to prove me wrong :( I hate that dc feels everyone should be strongerbthan supes. WW and MM have both been made more powerful in the new52 and with trinity war coming up i wouldn't be surprised if heman Constantine or MM smacked him around :(

#42 Edited by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

1. So superman can her through the vaccuum of space but bruce's great voice skills help him avoid him? And there is no reason to assume that it's just bad writing. A good writer would have written it down that supes couldn't hear him.

And I addresses this earlier but I'll say it again. Superman hearing through the vaccuum of space and not hearing bruce's heartbeat because of a machine Bruce made? That's not even plausible

In all fairness, your first point is plain out stupid. Not the point itself, it's valid, but the fact that it exists is stupid: There shouldn't be ANY sound in space. There's nothing to hear. Sound works by vibrating air molecules. In space, there's nothing to vibrate, so no matter how good your hearing, there's nothing TO HEAR. So that's writer's license, and isn't much of a feat for Supes so much as it is just bad writing.

As for Bats designing a suit to avoid Superman: The dude has a contingency plan for each of his fellow Leagers (save Wonder Woman). Does anyone here REALLY think if Bruce went to the trouble of designing a suit advanced enough to automatically adjust to be invisible to whatever wavelengths of light it's being subjected to, he'd NEVER think of designing something to keep all sound contained within the suit?

Don't forget, he was designing it to avoid Superman, that includes being heard. Sound would be the first thing he'd cut out. As for why Superman heard his voice, but couldn't find him, Batman probably had an in suit mic hooked up to the Batcave's intercom (don't know for certain it has one, but I think I remember reading that it does). Batman speaks in the suit, suit contains the sound, but his voice is broadcasted out of the intercom.

Superman hears the intercom, none the wiser as for Bruce's position.

As for the weapons... I'm not even going to try and explain that til we have more information to go off of.

#43 Posted by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith: I agree with your first point. Superman can hear in a place where sound cannot exist. But that's always been fact. And now what snyder is telling me is that Bruce has created a better sound suppressor than the very absence of sound. That is bad writing no matter how you slice it. An the weapons is what got me really riled up. According to "superman" and "justice league" and "superman unchained" those tanks are more powerful than darksied, h'el and helspont.

#44 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

I agree with your first point. Superman can hear in a place where sound cannot exist. But that's always been fact. And now what snyder is telling me is that Bruce has created a better sound suppressor than the very absence of sound. That is bad writing no matter how you slice it. An the weapons is what got me really riled up. According to "superman" and "justice league" and "superman unchained" those tanks are more powerful than darksied, h'el and helspont.

In all fairness, we don't know how he did it, it didn't focus on sound suppression, just the invisibility. Ideally, the suit would absorb all sound the suit would generate, from footsteps to speech. But does Batman, the stealth guy, developing a completely soundproof suit really break your suspension of disbelief more than Superman violently ignoring the laws of physics by hearing in a vacuum?

As for the weapons, keep in mind, whether you like this new Supersoldier or not, if he IS more powerful than Superman, they've also had him to test and fine tune all these new weapons on. So there might KIND OF be a reason as to why the weapons are so damaging: They're testing them against someone who in theory is more powerful and resilient than Superman himself.

#45 Posted by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith: Then that all defeats the purpose of superman. If Brice is resilient enough to beat the JL and hide from superman and the government has weapons that can kill superman AND. A stronger version of superman then why is superman needed? The next time darksied invades just shoot those blackhole guns in the sky and if that doesntwork then get your "superman" to take care of it. In one issue Scott Snyder has completely removed the need for superman to exist. And I pray I'm wrong and it's all explained next month but so far dc has been abusing superman with bad writing. How would you react if batman got beat up by a marine and penguin broke into the batcave and dc made a character that was better at being batman than batman?

#46 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoa jeez, where is all this silliness coming from? It's not as though this is the first time Bats has managed to develop something that hides him from Superman...(see JLA)....

#47 Edited by SOG7dc (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: I think it silly that supes couldn't smell him. For goodness sake supes smelled brownies in Kansas from

Outerspace before. But what really upset be is superman being hurt by the man made tanks

#48 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@veshark: I think it silly that supes couldn't smell him. For goodness sake supes smelled brownies in Kansas from

Outerspace before. But what really upset be is superman being hurt by the man made tanks

I don't know about the context because I haven't read the issue, but it seems a little extreme to be 'fuming' or being 'confused and angry' or considering it 'street-level pandering'.

I can understand if the issue had Batman kicking the crap out of Superman, but he just came up with a strategy to hide from Superman. Perhaps the strategy itself requires some explanation as to why Supes couldn't hear or smell him, but it seems silly to get so angry over such a minor thing.

#49 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

Then that all defeats the purpose of superman. If Brice is resilient enough to beat the JL and hide from superman and the government has weapons that can kill superman AND. A stronger version of superman then why is superman needed? The next time darksied invades just shoot those blackhole guns in the sky and if that doesntwork then get your "superman" to take care of it. In one issue Scott Snyder has completely removed the need for superman to exist. And I pray I'm wrong and it's all explained next month but so far dc has been abusing superman with bad writing. How would you react if batman got beat up by a marine and penguin broke into the batcave and dc made a character that was better at being batman than batman?

The government wouldn't send their Supersoldier (I'm not calling him 'their Superman' for the sake of convenience) because he's a SECRET weapon. They've kept him under wraps and under control for over seventy five years.

The moment they reveal their Supersoldier to deal with Darkseid or a similar threat, every nation will know, and they'll lose the element of surprise, not to mention they'll have to associate with the Supersoldier in public, meaning they won't be able to send him on missions like 'NUKE A CITY', as was shown at the beginning of Superman Unchained.

Superman is supposed to be a guardian and guide for the people. This new Supersoldier is nothing more than a weapon, to be fired and hidden away before anyone notices. If you disagree with this new Supersoldier existing, what say you about Captain Marvel (or Shazam, whatever)? Most of Superman's powers, possibly a bit stronger due to magic fuel. Or Martian Manhunter, all that Superman's got and more. Wonder Woman even. All have similar power sets to Superman, some are even marginally stronger. If you believe this Supersoldier negates the need for Superman's existence, then what say you about them?

As for the scenario for Batman getting beat up by a marine, unless there's sufficient set up to justify it, that's bad writing: Batman is more well trained and is better supplied. The Penguin couldn't find the Batcave, and even if he could, he probably couldn't break into it. As for DC making a character that was better at being Batman than Batman?

Is that what you think has happened here? You think Snyder has made a guy whose a better Superman than Superman, based solely on the fact that he's a bit more powerful and maybe not completely evil?

#50 Posted by Mercy_ (92857 posts) - - Show Bio

@kellerman: Watch the f-bombs in the future, please.

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