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#51 Posted by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: kinda like if they created somebody like Gorr the God butcher. Somebody who definitely isn't as strong as Thor but because of his unique power set he is a challenge for Thor. That's what wraith should be

#52 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: mongul is arguable but dude doomsday is definitely stronger than supes, that's what he is the end to everyone who comes in his way.

#53 Posted by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesmfan: I've never seem that in practice. Can you prove it with scans or any examples of doomsday overpowering supes?

#54 Edited by UltimateSMfan (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: for a true showing of doomsday after death of superman there is hunter/prey where doomsday nearly beats darkseid to death aswell and I forgot what it's called but there's a story where brainiac possesses doomsday and damn that was awesome. After that they started weakening doomsday till the reign of doomsday story arc where they came up with doomslayer who can f up doomsdays.

#55 Posted by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesmfan: Oh ok well I can admit when I'm wrong but I feel I still have a valid point to make here:

We already have two villains physically stronger than superman in darksied and doomsday so why do we need another one? And wraith, at least to me, cheapens superman because if the govt created a stronger superman than superman himself then why does the world even need supes? Couldn't they make an army to protect earth? Couldn't they use the blackhole guns against planetary threats?

#56 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: I have that problem with wraith as well that he's just a 70yr old superman and kind of negates the reaction to supes but I'm still eager to see how the story pans out though when it comes to Scott Snyder writing superman the concept of the enemy is not that different from the one in the flashpoint series project superman written by him.

#57 Posted by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesmfan: Yeah I'm gonna just trust Snyder. After American Vampire, court of owls and death of the family I'm believing in him. I guess I just really want a Geoff johnsesque run on superman. One that gives superman an identity and years f great stories. Hopefully this is the start to something great. I will say that I live the dialogue live the characterization and love that superman has done incredibly heroic things in both issues so far.

#58 Posted by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anybody else think "DOS" was kinda lame and stupid

#59 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@deaditegonzo: How did you feel about the manmade weapons hurting supes in issue 2 of unchained?

That is part of what makes him seem like a "Movie" version of himself. Honestly, Unchained almost seems like a Hulk book lol. Fighting the military (T. Ross), getting outsmarted by Batman, getting punked by a new, zany Super Weapon meant just to take him down, etc. And correct me if im wrong, but "Wraith is to Superman, as Abomination is to Hulk", no not origin-wise, just in the sense of their powers being similar to their hero's powers, but to a greater extent, and being more monstrous creatures powered by the same source, but just at greater quantities.

It feels like a Hulk book, or a less mythical, dumbed down Movie Superman book.

#60 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

Does anybody else think "DOS" was kinda lame and stupid

Death of Superman? If thats what you mean, i loved it. What it did to the character (it was basically the death of the Byrne era [which Unchained hearkens to, but with less heart]) and just its overall grandeur. There was really no other way to kill Superman than to invent death incarnate, aim it at his beloved city, and have him use his body as a literal shield. And then Hunter/Prey is the perfect bookend. In that, id almost argue there isnt any villain more powerful or dangerous outside of cosmics.

#61 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

Does anybody else think "DOS" was kinda lame and stupid

I hated that storyline also. The only reason they did it was because they ran out of ideas.

#62 Edited by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: you're right! I never looked t it that way. It totally is a hulk book!

#63 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

DOS is pretty stupid, but the animation movie is fun.

#64 Edited by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@deaditegonzo: How did you feel about the manmade weapons hurting supes in issue 2 of unchained?

That is part of what makes him seem like a "Movie" version of himself. Honestly, Unchained almost seems like a Hulk book lol. Fighting the military (T. Ross), getting outsmarted by Batman, getting punked by a new, zany Super Weapon meant just to take him down, etc. And correct me if im wrong, but "Wraith is to Superman, as Abomination is to Hulk", no not origin-wise, just in the sense of their powers being similar to their hero's powers, but to a greater extent, and being more monstrous creatures powered by the same source, but just at greater quantities.

It feels like a Hulk book, or a less mythical, dumbed down Movie Superman book.

Well, it makes sense that he would fight the military because realistically The American Government would never let a super powerful alien run around unchecked. I don't see how he was outsmarted by batman, and Supes gets hurt by manmade weapons all the time. I don't see why the military couldn't have used the information from superman's fights to create a weapon against him. I don't see how this Iike the movie superman

#65 Posted by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: IMO DOS only hurt Superman. It challenged his invulnerability he died from punches which just doesn't sit well with me. It's just not my cup of tea

#66 Edited by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19: When is superman hurt by manmade weapons aside from in unchained 2? I've never seen him be hurt by anything that wasn't made by lex or Knite based or magic or by someone on his level of power

#67 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@eternal19: When is superman hurt by manmade weapons aside from in unchained 2? I've never seen him be hurt by anything that wasn't made by lex or Knite based or magic or by someone on his level of power

Well, it would be stupid of the military to not take data from Superman's multiple fights with supervillians and use that data to create a weapon. This book is meant to be more a realistic superman book

#68 Posted by EnigmaLantern (763 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@eternal19: When is superman hurt by manmade weapons aside from in unchained 2? I've never seen him be hurt by anything that wasn't made by lex or Knite based or magic or by someone on his level of power

Well, it would be stupid of the military to not take data from Superman's multiple fights with supervillians and use that data to create a weapon. This book is meant to be more a realistic superman book

I agree with this.

Superman Unchained and Superman/Batman are currently the best Supes comics, Action Comics (excluding Grant Morrison's run) and Superman has been poor, and it's surprising when it involves one of DC's flagship characters, you would expect them to make more of an effort to put a decent writers on both of his main titles..

I really can't help but dislike Lobdell's writing sometimes, it doesn't do it for me, it didn't do it for me in Superboy and it is certainly not doing it for me in Superman.

#69 Posted by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19: @enigmalantern: I disagree. Do you think the government should be able to have a machine that can hurt thor? Wonder woman? Hyperion? Hulk? I just din like it. But that's my opinion on the matter. And as far as lobdells run. It's had promise but it never delivered. Like h'el. H'el could have been a grey character and story arc. But it left me with more questions than answers, the stry was never properly set up, and we never really got a solid arc from him yet. But I will say that Kenneth rocafort is becoming one f my favorite superman artists.

#70 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo said:

@sog7dc said:

@deaditegonzo: How did you feel about the manmade weapons hurting supes in issue 2 of unchained?

That is part of what makes him seem like a "Movie" version of himself. Honestly, Unchained almost seems like a Hulk book lol. Fighting the military (T. Ross), getting outsmarted by Batman, getting punked by a new, zany Super Weapon meant just to take him down, etc. And correct me if im wrong, but "Wraith is to Superman, as Abomination is to Hulk", no not origin-wise, just in the sense of their powers being similar to their hero's powers, but to a greater extent, and being more monstrous creatures powered by the same source, but just at greater quantities.

It feels like a Hulk book, or a less mythical, dumbed down Movie Superman book.

Well, it makes sense that he would fight the military because realistically The American Government would never let a super powerful alien run around unchecked. I don't see how he was outsmarted by batman, and Supes gets hurt by manmade weapons all the time. I don't see why the military couldn't have used the information from superman's fights to create a weapon against him. I don't see how this Iike the movie superman

Well, I understand that you dont see it, but I explained why I see it that way.

I dont like Unchained, its boring and it dumbs Superman down. The military shouldnt be any more of a threat to Supes than an army of ants is a threat to a a healthy human being.

I like books full of fantasy, which is why I love Lobdells run.

#71 Edited by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO the govt shouldn't be able to hurt people like superman, Wonderwoman, martianmanhunter, Thor, shazam etc. Those characters are the top tier guys and they should only be hurt by things of astronomical proportions

#72 Edited by Black_Arrow (3418 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19 said:

@deaditegonzo said:

@sog7dc said:

@deaditegonzo: How did you feel about the manmade weapons hurting supes in issue 2 of unchained?

That is part of what makes him seem like a "Movie" version of himself. Honestly, Unchained almost seems like a Hulk book lol. Fighting the military (T. Ross), getting outsmarted by Batman, getting punked by a new, zany Super Weapon meant just to take him down, etc. And correct me if im wrong, but "Wraith is to Superman, as Abomination is to Hulk", no not origin-wise, just in the sense of their powers being similar to their hero's powers, but to a greater extent, and being more monstrous creatures powered by the same source, but just at greater quantities.

It feels like a Hulk book, or a less mythical, dumbed down Movie Superman book.

Well, it makes sense that he would fight the military because realistically The American Government would never let a super powerful alien run around unchecked. I don't see how he was outsmarted by batman, and Supes gets hurt by manmade weapons all the time. I don't see why the military couldn't have used the information from superman's fights to create a weapon against him. I don't see how this Iike the movie superman

Well, I understand that you dont see it, but I explained why I see it that way.

I dont like Unchained, its boring and it dumbs Superman down. The military shouldnt be any more of a threat to Supes than an army of ants is a threat to a a healthy human being.

I like books full of fantasy, which is why I love Lobdells run.

Actually there some ant species that can kill humans.

Online
#73 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

So...What you guys think about Grant's Action run?

#74 Posted by Z3RO180 (6618 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: The actual DEATH OF SUPERMAN is cool every thing after that never happend

#75 Edited by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
#76 Posted by Dernman (15234 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked DOS.

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#77 Posted by Z3RO180 (6618 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: I'm talking about the comic Pre-52.

#78 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
#79 Posted by sage1000 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion DOS was one of the best things to happen to Superman. It was Return of Superman that almost ruined the character.

I'd love it when comics start putting Superman in morally grey situations, situations where there is no right answer and to watch him struggle in trying to make the right decisions. I've also noticed that in my limited comic book experience Superman has not actually lost everything, hasn't been in a situation where he literally has nothing going for him, where is completely broken down and has to claw his way back up, this is also something I'd love to see, it is my favorite part of a character watching him climb back up after the person has been completely beaten and has no chance of winning. I think Unchained is heading in this direction.

Echoing the sentiments of most people here a space arc would be fantastic. If I had my way I'd find a way to team up all these space characters Orion, Maxima, Lobo, Mongul, Larfleeze, Helspoint, H'el, Hal Jordan, Kalibak etc with Superman for an arc creating a threat that can challenge them and force them to work together maybe the prison in the source wall is breaking down and the previous generation of gods are coming to get take over the universe or maybe the universe is crumbling and they have to find a way to save it. It would be fun seeing all these various characters try to work together and all that ego in one room. It would also serve as a way to challenge Superman as he is surrounded by beings that are on par with him or even stronger forcing him to use find creative uses for his power and also tough decisions ( imagine a situation where he either sacrifices a planet full of people and save the universe of save them and doom the universe).

#80 Edited by Kal'smahboi (3561 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@kal_smahboi:

who would you like to see writing the maintitle? because, though it was definitely better than dan jurgens run, scott lobdells has been very underwhelming.

It's been underwhelming since the New 52 started. I could probably count the number of redeemable issues of Superman with one hand. Jurgens was probably the best so far, better than Lobdell and definitely better than Perez, but none of them have really wowed me.

#81 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow: Siafu ants are one of the few ant species that are actually dangerous to humans, however I intentionally said healthy human beings, as the people killed by them are typically bedridden or newborn infants.

There are also primitive ant species, like the bulldog ant, which is similar to a wasp, that can kill people allergic with its sting causing anaphylactic shock. I knew somebody would try and say this, so I got pretty pedantic with my description :)

@sandman_ said:

So...What you guys think about Grant's Action run?

The last few issues were a highlight of modern comic books, the first 3/4 or so were drawn out and boring.

#82 Posted by Black_Arrow (3418 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: Well there some cases that the ants killed a man when they were sleeping. But yeah they cant take a well rested healthy man because they are too slow

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#83 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
#84 Edited by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_ said:

@deaditegonzo: Didn't like the first issues?

Nope. Supes was really wimpy in the very first issues, and nothing interesting really happened. I liked the Brainiac and Metallo stuff okay, but not a lot. The new Metallo seems way lamer than the pre-52 version, Alex Ross version (from Justice), or my personally favourite, the Superman the Animated Series version. And the Superman: Brainiac arc, from Johns and Frank, is only 4 or so years old, and Brainiac was a lot cooler/ more powerful in that than the Action Comics version. But really, it didnt hit its stride until Morrison was about to quit, imo.

I feel like Lobdell is the only writer taking advantage of a new continuity, the only one who isnt afraid of Superman's great power, and who isnt obsessed with grounding him. Morrison tempered his normal whimsical/fanciful style, until the very end where Supes fought the most brutal collection of enemies imaginable.

#85 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: Well, I liked it. It was nice too see a confident Superman again.

#86 Posted by consolemaster001 (5817 posts) - - Show Bio
#87 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: the first 9 issues of Morrison's run were great. But the rest of it was really poorely written and confusing

#88 Posted by PowerHerc (85026 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

1. I think the world of him.

2. I like because of what he represents his powers and how he is the one hero who no matter what can help us aspire to be something more than what we are and the fact that even the greatest of heroes not only look up to Superman but they look to him for guidance.

3. I would like to see some stories about him vs Darksied,Zod,Doomsday,Mongul etc.

Would also love to see him throw down against Black Adam, Shazam, Icon, Mr. Majestic and Martian Manhunter.

Me, too.

#89 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2008 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by PowerHerc (85026 posts) - - Show Bio
#91 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19: yes, Grant sometimes writes confusing...

#92 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Mehh he didn't Nerf him really the New 52 had already depowered him originally so it's not like it's anything new. It didn't bother me as much. but if it was Pre Crisis or Post Crisis Superman then I would've been like WTF!!!

I also re picked up Superman again. I wanted to at least give it one more chance with issue 22 and it sold me I'm back on the book. I will also get the Action issues by Lobdell now. I love Eddy Barrows art one of the best DC artists right now.

#93 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: I loved his run and the first time I read it it confused me but the second time I read his entire run (in a specific order) and It made a lot of sense and I loved it.

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@powerherc: Glad we agree :)

We do agree. On every single thing you wrote. :D

We pretty much agree on a lot of things. Except who's stronger between Thor and Hercules lol.

#94 Posted by PowerHerc (85026 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: I loved his run and the first time I read it it confused me but the second time I read his entire run (in a specific order) and It made a lot of sense and I loved it.

@powerherc said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@powerherc: Glad we agree :)

We do agree. On every single thing you wrote. :D

We pretty much agree on a lot of things. Except who's stronger between Thor and Hercules lol.

You had to bring that up, huh? :)

'Tis true we disagree, though.

#95 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@sandman_: I loved his run and the first time I read it it confused me but the second time I read his entire run (in a specific order) and It made a lot of sense and I loved it.

@powerherc said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@powerherc: Glad we agree :)

We do agree. On every single thing you wrote. :D

We pretty much agree on a lot of things. Except who's stronger between Thor and Hercules lol.

You had to bring that up, huh? :)

'Tis true we disagree, though.

Well of course lol. (Thor's stronger BTW)

For Suth.

#96 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
#97 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: Yes it does I reccomend reading it in this order

Action Comics issue 0,1-4,7&8, Action Comics Annual #1, Action Comics issue 10-13 and Action issue 9, Action Comics issue 5&6 then 14-18.

I read it in this order and it makes a lot more sense and I loved it alot more than I did initially.

#98 Posted by PowerHerc (85026 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@sandman_: I loved his run and the first time I read it it confused me but the second time I read his entire run (in a specific order) and It made a lot of sense and I loved it.

@powerherc said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@powerherc: Glad we agree :)

We do agree. On every single thing you wrote. :D

We pretty much agree on a lot of things. Except who's stronger between Thor and Hercules lol.

You had to bring that up, huh? :)

'Tis true we disagree, though.

Well of course lol. (Thor's stronger BTW)

For Suth.

Wrong twice.

Forsooth (not 'For Suth'), Hercules is stronger than Thor (Naturally).

#99 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
#100 Edited by SOG7dc (7497 posts) - - Show Bio