#1 Edited by w0nd (3268 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't a rant about the movie, or a defense.

Many of you hate the idea of him killing, and I understand and get that. So I am curious to see what you would do in that situation. I am aware there are topics involving why superman doesn't kill, but I haven't really seen posts on what he should have done instead, if one of these exists lock it and my apologies.

#2 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

I would not have written myself into that corner in the first place. I would have preferred them to somehow utilize the phantom zone. That kind of establishment could be great for setting up sequels (not that I want to see one) and such. In that situation, I suppose he would have to die. Superman does kill, but I don't like the scene (or the movie). I care not for Zod, but I do care about all the people Superman randomly killed and his stupid decision making. That's just ridiculous.

#3 Posted by w0nd (3268 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

I would not have written myself into that corner in the first place. I would have preferred them to somehow utilize the phantom zone. That kind of establishment could be great for setting up sequels (not that I want to see one) and such. In that situation, I suppose he would have to die. Superman does kill, but I don't like the scene (or the movie). I care not for Zod, but I do care about all the people Superman randomly killed and his stupid decision making. That's just ridiculous.

Yes admittedly there is no way to fix it unless they change, well over half the movie, and how the phantom zone actually works.

#4 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

I would not have written myself into that corner in the first place. I would have preferred them to somehow utilize the phantom zone. That kind of establishment could be great for setting up sequels (not that I want to see one) and such. In that situation, I suppose he would have to die. Superman does kill, but I don't like the scene (or the movie). I care not for Zod, but I do care about all the people Superman randomly killed and his stupid decision making. That's just ridiculous.

Killed? Where???

#5 Edited by BiteMe-Fanboy (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

He had enough leverage on Zod to break his neck easily, he could have easily just lifted his head up and the stupid family could have gotten out of the way.

Or maybe throw him through a bunch of more buildings. Seemed to be the whole movie, flying through stuff.

#6 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@biteme_fanboy: Yes but then Zod could have gotten loose and caused a lot more death and destruction, by everything the movie had set up there was no way to contain Zod since they sealed the phantom zone and he wouldn't have just stopped so your suggestion wouldn't have actually fixed the problem.

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#7 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10256 posts) - - Show Bio

Zod wins and then he goes and destroys Rotten Tomatoes.

#8 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: Exactly. I don't like it.

EDIT: Let me try to phrase that I meant I wish they would have written it from the beginning with that in mind. I said, "I would have preferred..." Once the movie is that far in, (killing Zod scene) clearly there is no alternative besides flying away or covering his eyes. Without the phantom zone or some Kryptonite/Red sun prison PIS, the only thing that makes sense is death. That doesn't mean it makes sense total; it just makes sense in that highly specific situation

#9 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: The damage to the city. There's no way all of the people survived that.

#10 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: Aha? How did he kill people again? Because he crashed on empty buildings?

#11 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_: Every building was completely devoid of life? Just because it is subconscious does not mean he did not kill them.

#12 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: Most of those building were crushed because the bad guys kept throwing him through them, he had no real choice in the matter, also he tried several times to take the fight away from those areas but the other Kryptonians kept stopping him.

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#13 Edited by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

@sandman_: Every building was completely devoid of life? Just because it is subconscious does not mean he did not kill them.

It pretty much looked like it. Sure there where people still in Metropolis, but please you see a giant alien ship who is wrecking havic on the city and you don't run away? Seriously? Most of the damage was done by the ship.

#14 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: And the buildings he smashed them through? What about things that exploded just because it looks awesome in IMAX, and not because it should actually have exploded.

#15 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: Have you ever read a Superman comic? Metropolis has been damn near leveled like 500 times and no one ever asks whether or not those buildings are empty or not, and no one ever claims Superman was unconcerned with saving people. You don't know whether or not those buildings were full of people or not, you're just assuming they were which means you're claiming he's responsible for deaths that no one can confirm even actually happened since it isn't addressed in the movie. Also the point is kind of moot since he was in the process of trying to save the entire world while it happened, I'd say saving the entire human race, not to mention all other life on Earth kind of out weighs the property damage.

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#16 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_:

I respect you( a lot actually, nice posts), but come on. Run where? I live in a metropolitan area at the moment. Not many ways you can escape. Many building are very tall, streets are one-way, there's a lot of construction. You can't get out with people panicking. The dorm I live in has 14 floors and 4 suites. We'd all make it out in time? Gas stations with cars in front of them generally have people in them. Other buildings are tall as well; power failures would doom elevators, and the stairs would be crammed with injured before their death.

#17 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

I've read a lot of Superman comics. It's established much better whether people are in the buildings or not. I also know his motives in the comics because he is a character and not a literary outline of a character. The property damage is not what bothers me. I don't know how to adequately respond, so I'll resign from this conversation.

#18 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

I would not have written myself into that corner in the first place. I would have preferred them to somehow utilize the phantom zone. That kind of establishment could be great for setting up sequels (not that I want to see one) and such. In that situation, I suppose he would have to die. Superman does kill, but I don't like the scene (or the movie). I care not for Zod, but I do care about all the people Superman randomly killed and his stupid decision making. That's just ridiculous.

Yes....deciding to take out the dude who said he was going to destroy everything who is just as powerful as him FIRST before he could do any more damage is stupid.

*Insert smile for eye-rolling here*

#19 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: When there is a will, there is a way. No doubt that there where still people in Metropolis when the Zod vs Superman fight happened, it even showed it, but the fact of the matter is that people where going to die no matter what. If something like this would happen in real life, people would die. Zack Snyder said it in one of his interviews that he wasn't going to sugar coat it. Now when Zod's bean hit that was a sign to get out of the buildings as fast as possible, not stand there and look like an idiot. Buildings were going to be destroy no matter what and people were going to die.

Thanks man, me as well :D I guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree then? We have different views on this. Maybe we should discuss this when the fuzz is all gone? :/

#20 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite:

Wait, I think you misunderstood me. I don't care about Zod being killed. Or I misunderstood you.

#21 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_:

Agree to disagree sounds good. My main thing against it was how Superman reacted. It's kind of how I tell people (this sounds like a tangent) that Luffy from One Piece kills subconsciously. He knocks them unconscious and they fall in water. Superman reacted to his conscious killing. Though instead of torturing him, he's fine in the next scene. I suppose psychology is unneeded here.

#22 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: Luffy does that? O_O

Suspense of disbelief? :D

#23 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

How do I handle the situation? Well... I forget the scene from the beginning, but i believe iit went something like Superman Punches Zod into an area with people and Zod instead of attacking Superman he goes for the people who for some reason are still standing in a corner with his heat vision. Then Superman rushes in and puts Zod in a headlock. and eventually Zod get's too close for comfort and Superman snaps his neck which should have resulted in the people getting hit to because the heat vision didn't stop till Zod was dead and the path of his eyes would have had to cross that path...Something like that.

I would have had Zod start his vision at the people but then Superman flies and hits the ground a few meters in front of Zod and rushes at him, clearly in pain from the heat vision as the people run away. Superman uppercuts Zod into space or out of the area or over hand smashes Zod.

Or if I'm misremembering and the heat vision doesn't start until after the head lock, have Superman, move his arm up over Zod's eyes to block the heat vision and shout for the people to run. Then try to calmly talk to Zod while he has him under control, mentioning how they want roughly the same thing. The people of Earth and Krypton can work together to create a new civ. Superman get's thrown away and Zod goes right for a child. And before thinking about it Superman speeds to Zod and kills him... and then freaks out as the realization of what's he's done crashes in on himself. The people of Metropolis come out and cautiously move towards him and the child or the parent says thank you to Superman. The people of Metropolis start cheering, but Superman stands and says something like "Death is never anything to applause, for all that he did wrong, he was only trying to do what the people you call hero would try to do for you." and then he flies off somberly as the crowd quiets and starts to disperse. As they do you can hear a few people say things like "What a dick" and "aliens are all scum"

If you're going for absolutely no killing, then you simply take out that scene all together and have Zod in his zealousness get caught and dragged into the Phantom Zone and make the escape from that look much more difficult, make Superman have to strain to escape rather than just hitting mild turbulence v.v

#24 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (33019 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken said:

How do I handle the situation? Well... I forget the scene from the beginning, but i believe iit went something like Superman Punches Zod into an area with people and Zod instead of attacking Superman he goes for the people who for some reason are still standing in a corner with his heat vision. Then Superman rushes in and puts Zod in a headlock. and eventually Zod get's too close for comfort and Superman snaps his neck which should have resulted in the people getting hit to because the heat vision didn't stop till Zod was dead and the path of his eyes would have had to cross that path...Something like that.

I would have had Zod start his vision at the people but then Superman flies and hits the ground a few meters in front of Zod and rushes at him, clearly in pain from the heat vision as the people run away. Superman uppercuts Zod into space or out of the area or over hand smashes Zod.

Or if I'm misremembering and the heat vision doesn't start until after the head lock, have Superman, move his arm up over Zod's eyes to block the heat vision and shout for the people to run. Then try to calmly talk to Zod while he has him under control, mentioning how they want roughly the same thing. The people of Earth and Krypton can work together to create a new civ. Superman get's thrown away and Zod goes right for a child. And before thinking about it Superman speeds to Zod and kills him... and then freaks out as the realization of what's he's done crashes in on himself. The people of Metropolis come out and cautiously move towards him and the child or the parent says thank you to Superman. The people of Metropolis start cheering, but Superman stands and says something like "Death is never anything to applause, for all that he did wrong, he was only trying to do what the people you call hero would try to do for you." and then he flies off somberly as the crowd quiets and starts to disperse. As they do you can hear a few people say things like "What a dick" and "aliens are all scum"

If you're going for absolutely no killing, then you simply take out that scene all together and have Zod in his zealousness get caught and dragged into the Phantom Zone and make the escape from that look much more difficult, make Superman have to strain to escape rather than just hitting mild turbulence v.v

LOL

#25 Edited by w0nd (3268 posts) - - Show Bio

In order for the phantom zone to work they have to change the entire universe. The phantom zone in this movie is an actual black hole that they needed a ship to get into, and they seem to keep their physical bodies, they seemed aged, although for a 33 year trek, Faora looks damn good. She has to be close to 60 now.

I also don't know how they ate in there but whatever.

anyways people have suggested to me that Clark build another phantom zone, out of what who knows.

I think the death of thousands something is just something that is accepted, they try to clear that mess up and it comes off as silly, like the hulk being so precise with his attacks he never actually "killed" a single person during one of his rampages lol..every building toppled from a tank shooting at him and missing, propane tanks exploding and so on resulted in no loss of life lol.

#26 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio