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#51 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@perezite: many people dont think their all in the same class as supes

Those people are idiots and still ignore the fact that, half the time, we're not really concerned for those characters' PHYSICAL well being either.

#52 Posted by Teerack (6238 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish superman would go do stuff in space like a green lantern style hero.

#53 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@warpimp said:

I think the number and intesnis of powers can get kind of lame. If he was just a flying brick with maybe heat vision then I would be happier. But as things are he does everything better than everyone. He's stronger than strength heroes, faster than speed heroes (except maybe the Flash but even that is sometimes debatable), he's super-intelligent (depending on the writer), he shoots lasers from his eyes as powerful as anyone else's energy projection, he has freeze breath, can see or hear on a level that is closer to cosmic awareness and the classic x-ray vision. In addition to being effectively invincible and immortal. I don't have a problem with him having these powers, but being better than everyone at everything is just not very intriguing.

What class of immortal?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Immortality

#54 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

I do prefer Dc just let Flash be the fastest, Batman be the smartest, etc. so Superman does not need to do everything.

Smartest in what way? Last I checked, there were multiple different types of intelligence.

#55 Posted by TrueMarvel (198 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite:

Doesn't Matter. Clearly stated in the comics that superman is smarter than batman in everyway. Doesn't that make batman redundant? New 52 now has reaction time on par with Flash. Doesn't that make flash redundant? Wonder Woman is already redundant and has been since conception. Martian Manhunter isn't even a part of the JLA. Superman can easily break GL constructs. But admittedly Hal is the only character on the JLA not made completely redundant by superman.

Superman is at a point where he makes almost each member of the justice league redundant. What's the point of the JLA if superman can do everything each member can do... better than they can do it.

#56 Edited by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite:

Doesn't Matter. Clearly stated in the comics that superman is smarter than batman in everyway. Doesn't that make batman redundant? New 52 now has reaction time on par with Flash. Doesn't that make flash redundant? Wonder Woman is already redundant and has been since conception. Martian Manhunter isn't even a part of the JLA. Superman can easily break GL constructs. But admittedly Hal is the only character on the JLA not made completely redundant by superman.

Superman is at a point where he makes almost each member of the justice league redundant. What's the point of the JLA if superman can do everything each member can do... better than they can do it.

I don't know if it's really ON PAR with the flash, just comparable. Plus, aside from the DCAU, I don't recall a mainstream continuity where Supes WASN'T really really smart, though it was down played a lot.

Also, you take that back about Wonder Woman right now.

#57 Posted by TrueMarvel (198 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite:

@perezite said:

@truemarvel said:

@perezite:

Doesn't Matter. Clearly stated in the comics that superman is smarter than batman in everyway. Doesn't that make batman redundant? New 52 now has reaction time on par with Flash. Doesn't that make flash redundant? Wonder Woman is already redundant and has been since conception. Martian Manhunter isn't even a part of the JLA. Superman can easily break GL constructs. But admittedly Hal is the only character on the JLA not made completely redundant by superman.

Superman is at a point where he makes almost each member of the justice league redundant. What's the point of the JLA if superman can do everything each member can do... better than they can do it.

I don't know if it's really ON PAR with the flash, just comparable. Plus, aside from the DCAU, I don't recall a mainstream continuity where Supes WASN'T really really smart, though it was down played a lot.

Also, you take that back about Wonder Woman right now.

Superman having "comparable" to the flash is to much imo. And your right Superman has always been smarter than batman. Theres even a scan of Superman mentally thinking up mechanical imporvements for Batman's gadgets. Batman is thus redundant, since what he brought to the team was his leadership and intelligence... something Superman apparently has more of. I would LOVE to take back what I said about superman but The truth must be set free! She is literally a Weaker, Slower and less intelligent version of superman. Always has been. And the trend seems to continue in the New 52. The Justice League is an enigma. All because of Superman

#58 Posted by consolemaster001 (5564 posts) - - Show Bio

no

#59 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer to reduce the powers of both Superman and the Lanterns to more believable levels. I also prefer to slow down the Flash a bit and maybe allow the Flash to fly. A character (like a Lantern) that flies at light speed or more every time is a bit hard to swallow also.

#60 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite:

@perezite said:

@truemarvel said:

@perezite:

Doesn't Matter. Clearly stated in the comics that superman is smarter than batman in everyway. Doesn't that make batman redundant? New 52 now has reaction time on par with Flash. Doesn't that make flash redundant? Wonder Woman is already redundant and has been since conception. Martian Manhunter isn't even a part of the JLA. Superman can easily break GL constructs. But admittedly Hal is the only character on the JLA not made completely redundant by superman.

Superman is at a point where he makes almost each member of the justice league redundant. What's the point of the JLA if superman can do everything each member can do... better than they can do it.

I don't know if it's really ON PAR with the flash, just comparable. Plus, aside from the DCAU, I don't recall a mainstream continuity where Supes WASN'T really really smart, though it was down played a lot.

Also, you take that back about Wonder Woman right now.

Superman having "comparable" to the flash is to much imo. And your right Superman has always been smarter than batman. Theres even a scan of Superman mentally thinking up mechanical imporvements for Batman's gadgets. Batman is thus redundant, since what he brought to the team was his leadership and intelligence... something Superman apparently has more of. I would LOVE to take back what I said about superman but The truth must be set free! She is literally a Weaker, Slower and less intelligent version of superman. Always has been. And the trend seems to continue in the New 52. The Justice League is an enigma. All because of Superman

Like the Silver Surfer?

I thought what he brought to the team was a keen strategic and tactical mind (a different kind of intelligence) with raw instincts and a knack for distrusting people enough to invade their privacy and personal histories to make sure they weren't threats, while Superman brought his natural ability to lead people and get them behind him.

I also though Wonder Woman was the better hand to hand fighter and the one more willing to strike in the nasty places with lots of high-end and useful enchanted magical stuff because of her being raised as Warrior while Supes is a farm boy and is often times portrayed as the technical pacifist (I.E., like Iron Man using his suit, a weapon in and of itself, to rid the world of weapons) bordering on true pacifist who would much rather try diplomacy even after it's clear that diplomacy has failed and is much slower to unleash his full power.

#61 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer to reduce the powers of both Superman and the Lanterns to more believable levels. I also prefer to slow down the Flash a bit and maybe allow the Flash to fly. A character (like a Lantern) that flies at light speed or more every time is a bit hard to swallow also.

How is it hard to swallow for the Lanterns where they're in space (a vacuum that borders on true vacuum) half the time and have to deal with world ending and/or cosmic level threats?

#62 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

For space stories or other planets, I think Superman, Flash and Lanterns can use space warps like the New Gods boom tube or use star gates like in Legion mythology.

#63 Posted by Tohoma (1429 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate hearing that Superman is unrelatable line, its not like Batman is really any more relatable unless you happen to be a handsom super rich, super genius, martial arts master with the world's most awesome car who dates super models. It takes more than the ability to be killed to be relatable.

Batman is more relatable in a sense that he is mortal. Unlike superman, batman can't tank bullets or read an entire medical library in five minutes. Part of the batman character is that he is supposed to represent the pinnacle of humanity. He conveys the message that we don't need a messiah to save us but rather we can do it ourselves within comparison of superman. But it is also worthy to note that people don't read comics for it to be relatable which is the reason why Batman isn't dead, why the Flash's joints don't deteriorate, how superman can fly etc.

Superman needs to be more consistent with his feats. It really urks me when Superman struggles with lower threats when logically it should have been an easy win based on his feats.

#64 Posted by The Stegman (24339 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Scarlet Johansson need a breast reduction? The answer is No.

#65 Posted by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

If Superman needs a reduction then all the characters need a reduction.

#66 Edited by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@tohoma: I do like Batman but I've always related more on a personal level with Superman, it has nothing to do with their powers and abilities I just relate more to a farm boy that has to work for a living than a billionaire with a vendetta. I guess I should clarify that I relate more to Clark Kent. If you pay attention to Superman comics it makes it pretty clear that the big blue boy scout thing is an act, just as much as the bumbling office persona is. When ever he just gets to be himself he's just a regular guy and if you take away all that power that's what he really is while if you take away Batman's money and gadgets you still have a person so lost in his quest that he barely feels like a real person at all.

#67 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

Id even make him more powerful (and make it more consistent across all comics featuring Superman), i'd make an entire arc about him opening up to his true potential (as has been hinted at in the H'El on Earth arc), then i'd pull him out of the JL as an active member (make him a reserve member), and have Superman dealing with the biggest threats to the world. He's the guy the Justice League should turn to when all else fails. This will also help villains like Helspont, H'El, Doomsday, and Darkseid, as their incredible superiority to any other DC hero will be legitimized.

Basically, Doomsday could trash the Justice League, and it becomes very meaningful that Superman has to fight him to a standstill.

Stop nerfing Superman for other character's (Batman in particular) benefit. Its not fair to Superman to be held back. Batman's relevance isnt Superman's concern. Its like everyone else says, its the writers responsibility to make characters interesting, and to tell good stories.

#68 Posted by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

Id even make him more powerful (and make it more consistent across all comics featuring Superman), i'd make an entire arc about him opening up to his true potential (as has been hinted at in the H'El on Earth arc), then i'd pull him out of the JL as an active member (make him a reserve member), and have Superman dealing with the biggest threats to the world. He's the guy the Justice League should turn to when all else fails. This will also help villains like Helspont, H'El, Doomsday, and Darkseid, as their incredible superiority to any other DC hero will be legitimized.

Basically, Doomsday could trash the Justice League, and it becomes very meaningful that Superman has to fight him to a standstill.

Stop nerfing Superman for other character's (Batman in particular) benefit. Its not fair to Superman to be held back. Batman's relevance isnt Superman's concern. Its like everyone else says, its the writers responsibility to make characters interesting, and to tell good stories.

This!!!id follow u if I weren't already following you. *internet hig-five*

#69 Posted by SOG7dc (7156 posts) - - Show Bio

Hope everyone knows that New 52 Superman is in fact STRONGER than pre-flashpoint Superman. In the new 52 superman has been seen bench-pressing the wieght of the earth for 5 days while being Sun-starved..........

Pre-flashpoint Superman couldn't even move a moon sized satillite while buffed up on Sun energy.

YES.

He does need a power reduction. Its at the point where as: Whats the point of fighting superman as a bad guy? Lex is the only bad guy with a irrational but understandable reason to go make a move against superman. Lex is a closet racist. But any and all rational thinking bad-guy shouldn't even try to be a criminal in metropolis.

I think that superman does not and will never need a "power reduction" if anything I think he should b stronger but that's another topic for another thread. but what I do believ is that superman needs new rogues. why are writers afraid to create new villains? and why does superman always have to stay on earth??

#70 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to agree superman should find bigger challenges in space so maybe just do Superman as a space hero like Green Lantern and star wars and star trek. In space, people can't say anymore Clark Kent looks like Superman and that solves the stupid disguise problem of Superman that started in 1938.

#71 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@truemarvel said:

Hope everyone knows that New 52 Superman is in fact STRONGER than pre-flashpoint Superman. In the new 52 superman has been seen bench-pressing the wieght of the earth for 5 days while being Sun-starved..........

Pre-flashpoint Superman couldn't even move a moon sized satillite while buffed up on Sun energy.

YES.

He does need a power reduction. Its at the point where as: Whats the point of fighting superman as a bad guy? Lex is the only bad guy with a irrational but understandable reason to go make a move against superman. Lex is a closet racist. But any and all rational thinking bad-guy shouldn't even try to be a criminal in metropolis.

I think that superman does not and will never need a "power reduction" if anything I think he should b stronger but that's another topic for another thread. but what I do believ is that superman needs new rogues. why are writers afraid to create new villains? and why does superman always have to stay on earth??

"Whats the point of fighting superman as a bad guy? Lex is the only bad guy with a irrational but understandable reason to go make a move against superman. Lex is a closet racist. But any and all rational thinking bad-guy shouldn't even try to be a criminal in metropolis."

Because Superman is an insect. Less than insect. Superman can move worlds, I make the Source itself tremble.

#72 Posted by Tohoma (1429 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: Wait how would nerfing Superman benefit Batman?

And while I am all for Superman having consistent feats I am not for making him stronger. Because I don't believe that his speed should be close to the Flash or his willpower close to the Green Lantern's.

#73 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@tohoma said:

@deaditegonzo: Wait how would nerfing Superman benefit Batman?

And while I am all for Superman having consistent feats I am not for making him stronger. Because I don't believe that his speed should be close to the Flash or his willpower close to the Green Lantern's.

Batman is irrelevant in the Justice League, because any one of the other leaguers can do something that he does better. This is why in Superman/Batman comics, or Justice League comics, so much time is spent establishing why a particular foe can only be beat by Batman. Think of any situation where Batman was the guy who saved the day, and then consider who else should have been capable and even do it better.

Lets look at it this way: Batman's thing is investigation. Yet, it is established that the Flash can go through billions of probabilities in a nanosecond, he could literally solve any mystery while Batman is still trying to form a coherent thought. Batman is the other guy i'd remove from all team books, because he hurts other characters.

#74 Edited by Tohoma (1429 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: I wouldn't say Batman is irrelevant. Flash can't go through billions of probabilities in a nanosecond it is much slower. Which is the reason why he was shot by Manuel when doing so. Also if Flash wanted to find a missing person he couldn't just go through probabilities to find the person. He would have to look for clues and leads which is right up Batman's alley. Not to mention he does have the funds to pay for the expenses of the League.

Also would you say Wonder Woman is useless since Superman can do anything she can do but better? Other than her lasso what does she have that Superman doesn't? Or what about Aquaman? Yeah he can send telepathic impulses to fish but the Green Lantern if needed can create multiple constructs of sea life. The reasons why they are on the League is because one or two heroes can't cut it you need the League. For example, in an invasion while Superman and the other leaguers are defending civilians from the immediate threat, Batman could sneak on the main ship and blow it up using subterfuge.

#75 Edited by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@tohoma said:

@deaditegonzo: I wouldn't say Batman is irrelevant. Flash can't go through billions of probabilities in a nanosecond it is much slower. Which is the reason why he was shot by Manuel when doing so. Also if Flash wanted to find a missing person he couldn't just go through probabilities to find the person. He would have to look for clues and leads which is right up Batman's alley. Not to mention he does have the funds to pay for the expenses of the League.

Also would you say Wonder Woman is useless since Superman can do anything she can do but better? Other than her lasso what does she have that Superman doesn't? Or what about Aquaman? Yeah he can send telepathic impulses to fish but the Green Lantern if needed can create multiple constructs of sea life. The reasons why they are on the League is because one or two heroes can't cut it you need the League. For example, in an invasion while Superman and the other leaguers are defending civilians from the immediate threat, Batman could sneak on the main ship and blow it up using subterfuge.

Or Cyborg could hack the ship remotely and blow it up. Or, he can Boomtube an entire squad onto the ship.

Flash could search every corner of the planet in a night. If there were a missing person, he'd be a much better choice to find them. Shoot, Supes could fly into space and listen with super hearing, and search with telescopic, X-ray, super vision and find a missing person much quicker as well.

Wonder Woman is the best fighter on the team. If her and Supes met somebody on their level strengh-wise, but was a more skilled combatant than Supes, WW may very well be better suited to face said villain.

Aquaman really is only the 'best' for ocean related situations, but thats always been the joke about Aquaman. As in, people acknowledge this.

Batman could just fund the league without being a part of it, or Oliver Queen could fund the league. Superman could easily fund the league by locating oil all over the planet and becoming an oil magnate.

#76 Edited by THEOCITYLEGEND (1208 posts) - - Show Bio

@tohoma said:

@deaditegonzo: I wouldn't say Batman is irrelevant. Flash can't go through billions of probabilities in a nanosecond it is much slower. Which is the reason why he was shot by Manuel when doing so. Also if Flash wanted to find a missing person he couldn't just go through probabilities to find the person. He would have to look for clues and leads which is right up Batman's alley. Not to mention he does have the funds to pay for the expenses of the League.

Also would you say Wonder Woman is useless since Superman can do anything she can do but better? Other than her lasso what does she have that Superman doesn't? Or what about Aquaman? Yeah he can send telepathic impulses to fish but the Green Lantern if needed can create multiple constructs of sea life. The reasons why they are on the League is because one or two heroes can't cut it you need the League. For example, in an invasion while Superman and the other leaguers are defending civilians from the immediate threat, Batman could sneak on the main ship and blow it up using subterfuge.

Or Cyborg could hack the ship remotely and blow it up. Or, he can Boomtube an entire squad onto the ship.

Flash could search every corner of the planet in a night. If there were a missing person, he'd be a much better choice to find them. Shoot, Supes could fly into space and listen with super hearing, and search with telescopic, X-ray, super vision and find a missing person much quicker as well.

Wonder Woman is the best fighter on the team. If her and Supes met somebody on their level strengh-wise, but was a more skilled combatant than Supes, WW may very well be better suited to face said villain.

Aquaman really is only the 'best' for ocean related situations, but thats always been the joke about Aquaman. As in, people acknowledge this.

Batman could just fund the league without being a part of it, or Oliver Queen could fund the league. Superman could easily fund the league by locating oil all over the planet and becoming an oil magnate.

If we go by feats Batman is the best Detective and tactition in DCU. So yes I would say he is relevant. WW best fighter? Batmans h2h feats make Wonder woman crap herself.

#77 Edited by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo said:

@tohoma said:

@deaditegonzo: I wouldn't say Batman is irrelevant. Flash can't go through billions of probabilities in a nanosecond it is much slower. Which is the reason why he was shot by Manuel when doing so. Also if Flash wanted to find a missing person he couldn't just go through probabilities to find the person. He would have to look for clues and leads which is right up Batman's alley. Not to mention he does have the funds to pay for the expenses of the League.

Also would you say Wonder Woman is useless since Superman can do anything she can do but better? Other than her lasso what does she have that Superman doesn't? Or what about Aquaman? Yeah he can send telepathic impulses to fish but the Green Lantern if needed can create multiple constructs of sea life. The reasons why they are on the League is because one or two heroes can't cut it you need the League. For example, in an invasion while Superman and the other leaguers are defending civilians from the immediate threat, Batman could sneak on the main ship and blow it up using subterfuge.

Or Cyborg could hack the ship remotely and blow it up. Or, he can Boomtube an entire squad onto the ship.

Flash could search every corner of the planet in a night. If there were a missing person, he'd be a much better choice to find them. Shoot, Supes could fly into space and listen with super hearing, and search with telescopic, X-ray, super vision and find a missing person much quicker as well.

Wonder Woman is the best fighter on the team. If her and Supes met somebody on their level strengh-wise, but was a more skilled combatant than Supes, WW may very well be better suited to face said villain.

Aquaman really is only the 'best' for ocean related situations, but thats always been the joke about Aquaman. As in, people acknowledge this.

Batman could just fund the league without being a part of it, or Oliver Queen could fund the league. Superman could easily fund the league by locating oil all over the planet and becoming an oil magnate.

If we go by feats Batman is the best Detective and tactition in DCU. So yes I would say he is relevant. WW best fighter? Batmans h2h feats make Wonder woman crap herself.

This all comes back around to what I was saying about other characters always being nerfed to promote the Bat. Go back to my first post, follow the chain, and then you'll understand at least my contention: Superman and Batman should both stick mainly to their own universes because they both hurt the team in different ways. Id say Batman is the root of the bigger of the two issues but thats neither here nor there. Why would Batman be a better fighter than an Amazon who has spent her whole life in a militant environment far more impressive than any place Batman could have found while globe trotting? Ive already pointed out that others should be much better in investigative prowess, yet because he is Batman he must be shown to be the best. Its just Stupid, imo.

#78 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1208 posts) - - Show Bio

@theocitylegend said:

@deaditegonzo said:

@tohoma said:

@deaditegonzo: I wouldn't say Batman is irrelevant. Flash can't go through billions of probabilities in a nanosecond it is much slower. Which is the reason why he was shot by Manuel when doing so. Also if Flash wanted to find a missing person he couldn't just go through probabilities to find the person. He would have to look for clues and leads which is right up Batman's alley. Not to mention he does have the funds to pay for the expenses of the League.

Also would you say Wonder Woman is useless since Superman can do anything she can do but better? Other than her lasso what does she have that Superman doesn't? Or what about Aquaman? Yeah he can send telepathic impulses to fish but the Green Lantern if needed can create multiple constructs of sea life. The reasons why they are on the League is because one or two heroes can't cut it you need the League. For example, in an invasion while Superman and the other leaguers are defending civilians from the immediate threat, Batman could sneak on the main ship and blow it up using subterfuge.

Or Cyborg could hack the ship remotely and blow it up. Or, he can Boomtube an entire squad onto the ship.

Flash could search every corner of the planet in a night. If there were a missing person, he'd be a much better choice to find them. Shoot, Supes could fly into space and listen with super hearing, and search with telescopic, X-ray, super vision and find a missing person much quicker as well.

Wonder Woman is the best fighter on the team. If her and Supes met somebody on their level strengh-wise, but was a more skilled combatant than Supes, WW may very well be better suited to face said villain.

Aquaman really is only the 'best' for ocean related situations, but thats always been the joke about Aquaman. As in, people acknowledge this.

Batman could just fund the league without being a part of it, or Oliver Queen could fund the league. Superman could easily fund the league by locating oil all over the planet and becoming an oil magnate.

If we go by feats Batman is the best Detective and tactition in DCU. So yes I would say he is relevant. WW best fighter? Batmans h2h feats make Wonder woman crap herself.

This all comes back around to what I was saying about other characters always being nerfed to promote the Bat. Go back to my first post, follow the chain, and then you'll understand at least my contention: Superman and Batman should both stick mainly to their own universes because they both hurt the team in different ways. Id say Batman is the root of the bigger of the two issues but thats neither here nor there. Why would Batman be a better fighter than an Amazon who has spent her whole life in a militant environment far more impressive than any place Batman could have found while globe trotting? Ive already pointed out that others should be much better in investigative prowess, yet because he is Batman he must be shown to be the best. Its just Stupid, imo.

Its part of the character to be the Worlds Greatest Detective. Being the greatest detective is as much a part of Batmans character as speed is a part of Flash and strength is a part of Supes. You would never question why Flash is the fastest, you are simply supposed to accept that he is. The same goes for Batmans tactical and detective ability's, you are just supposed to accept it. Its all about consistency. Batman ever since Morrison era JLA has been the one most responsible for calling the shots in regards to how to approach a given conflict and figuring out what is going on and who is responsible for what. Superman has been displayed consistently as the strongest. If something is consistently displayed in some way then that is the way it is. Batman being displayed as a superior h2h fighter than Diana is something you are supposed to accept and not think to much about.

#79 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@theocitylegend: Hence why he is a bad and harmful character, and his presence negatively impacts superior characters.

#80 Posted by PowerWoman (3364 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope,superman should be take big bang,lift entire universe weight,super-breath if enough as long as hard could be end of the universe,faster than infinity

#81 Posted by PowerWoman (3364 posts) - - Show Bio

All these feats is from SA superman,yes,i love SA superman and SA supergirl

superman should be all-powerful like SA superman

#82 Edited by sidismail98 (101 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: Yes he does. It's not the level of power he has, it the variety too. I mean if you literally give him every power in the book, fine, just don't put them all in maximum level. A little bit of this and that, not GIVE ME EVERYTHING TO THE MAX! I mean he's stronger than the heroes and villains who are pure strength, he's got a heat vision KAMEHAMEHA more powerful than most energy beam based heroes his breath can put an airbender or Iceman to shame. Most Superman stories are an EMOTIONAL struggle, not a physical one. A hero needs to have both. I actually want to see my childhood hero fight for his life.

For me

Strength: 100 Tons

Flight Speed: Mach 3

Running Speed: 150 MPH

Durability: Bulletproof but can be hurt by more advanced military weaponry like sonic weapons, electrical weapons, and very powerful explosives. Highly resistant to cold and heat.

Additional Abilities: Heat Vision, X-Ray Vision, Telescopic Vision, Microscopic Vision, Super Hearing, Healing Factor, and Freeze Breath.

That's good right? I mean he's strong and fast but not "I can take over the world without opposition if I wanted to" level strong. I want to see him lift a plane and be like "Okay 1...2...3 and (struggle struggle) lift" not " Move at the speed of light so everyone closes their eyes and are on the ground before they even open their eyes". Batman and other are more fun to watch because they actually struggle. I know some are gonna say "Batman is so good at everything he's not relateble anymore". I disagree. He's good in fighting, but not Karate Kid level good. He's smart but not Lex Luthor or Iron Man level smart. A LITTLE bit of everything, not everything to the max. Superman however has gotten so powerful that the writer has to come up with cosmic level threats just to make him break a sweat.

#83 Posted by MaccyD (4053 posts) - - Show Bio

@knightrise said:

No. Like Grant Morrison (practically) said, its the writer's fault if they can't come up with a good story. Superman is about the "man" first, and the "super" later.

Was he not the guy who toned down Superman's power for the new 52...

#84 Posted by stephens2177 (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd: actually no,he was the guy who showed the perpetual unending growth of supermans powers.his superman was the one who read every surgical book then operated on Lois,his superman heard folks on Mars,his superman went from a jumper to a guy who can fly in space,just because he hadn't tried it yet.so no Morrison didn't need superman at all,just the opposite.

#85 Edited by Saint_Wildcard (10532 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that he's so powerful is one of the reasons I like him. Besides ask any Goku fanboy and they will say Goku beats him no problem, I find it funnier when people say he's OP but then say Goku can win, LOLWUT!!!!?

#86 Posted by toplel (917 posts) - - Show Bio
@hero92 said:

The fact that he's so powerful is one of the reasons I like him. Besides ask any Goku fanboy and they will say Goku beats him no problem, I find it funnier when people say he's OP but then say Goku can win, LOLWUT!!!!?

How old are you?

#87 Posted by Saint_Wildcard (10532 posts) - - Show Bio

@toplel said:
@hero92 said:

The fact that he's so powerful is one of the reasons I like him. Besides ask any Goku fanboy and they will say Goku beats him no problem, I find it funnier when people say he's OP but then say Goku can win, LOLWUT!!!!?

How old are you?

I sense an insult coming, so I refuse to answer Xb

#88 Posted by toplel (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@hero92: You sensed wrong. Just curious.

#89 Posted by Saint_Wildcard (10532 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by toplel (917 posts) - - Show Bio
#91 Edited by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm always baffled by this. There are literally more than 100 superhero books altogether. Is Superman had less powers, was weaker and wasn't kryptonian, he'd be closer to... I don't know, a lot of random dudes from the DCU or Marvel. My point is: if you don't like the story and powerset of Superman, just read something else.

Why should they change Superman? It offers variety. It's not like they have to obey a set of specific laws or rules: they have high tier superheroes and streetlevelers so every reader is happy.

EDIT: also, the remarks about overlapping powers are ridicolous. Wonder Woman is like Superman in what way? That she's a woman? That she was raised outside of modern civilization? Who is a being born more of magic than science? Who feels a very limited need for companionship? Who doesn't care about public opinion?

Characters are much more than their powersets. Otherwise we're talking pokemon or dragon ball.

#92 Posted by muhabba (299 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't like about Superman's powers is how he got them. Even as a kid I thought that the Radiation Of A Yellow Sun was hockee. Does that mean that before Kypton blew up & Kyptonians were exploring space, they'd get diffrent powers in each solor system they visited? Or were they only affected by yellow & red? Is that why every Kyptonian happened to be home the day the planet exploded instead of living on a colony or out in a spaceship that day? Cuz they avoided spacetravel not knowing what strange or dangous powers they could be afflicted with?

#93 Edited by stephens2177 (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

@muhabba: kryptonians became a very inward people,they went from traveling the stars to staying on their planet,not to mention their gravity was so much,they had a hard time getting off the planet.read some books with H'El in them,like his villian one shot for clues about how different cosmic forces effect a kryptonian.

#94 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@muhabba: there are several explainations as to why they didn't travel in space. Mostly political, but it made the race interesting.

#95 Posted by SanoHibiki (1521 posts) - - Show Bio

Always were baffled by “Superman is so powerful that authors can’t create good stories”. As long as Superman not in SA power-level, I think this is just excuse of lazy writing (and even if Supes near SA power-level - read All-Star Superman).

Guess Superman can be powered down – if others heroes would be weakened as well (like concept of Superman as “first among equals”). You have my permission to start with Martian Manhunter.

#96 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, his powers should be reduced somewhat. This, however, applies also to other comic book characters. The comic writers have piled higher and higher, and today their characters almost explode by their powers (see Hulk). With reduced powers, Superman would be more human then ever bevor and yet powerful enough to be a hero/alien.

#97 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

The only power I'm not a fan of him having is the ability to vibrate through objects. But no Superman does not need a power reduction. The whole point of the character is how SUPER he is. It's like asking if Batman should gain powers. If you dislike the character just don't read about him.

#98 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#99 Posted by Iron_Turtle (583 posts) - - Show Bio

Simply put, no.

If you think the powers make the man, then you don't understand the character. For me Superman has always been an intriguing character who is often badly handled. Usually because the writer has obsessed over his power levels, written themselves into a corner, and then resorted to the cheap and easy get out clause that is kryptonite.

I still feel that Kingdom Come is a must read for people who think Superman is overpowered.

#100 Posted by Lvenger (19851 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

If Superman needs a reduction then all the characters need a reduction.

QFT. He's really not that powerful when people actually see the foes he fights against.