DCnU Superman villains

@sethysquare said:

both great accounts. I do like the story atphantom came up with, but I would agree that he should have an emotional feel towards it.

I liked atphantom's story too. I just think the lack of the good half of the emotional spectrum is a plot hole. Like I said, insanity can hold that at bay well enough.

My biggest pet peeve with Metallo is the Cyborg Superman. He's looking for ways to discredit or defeat Supes, and can inhabit any material he wants. Why wouldn't he take over Metallo's body for the cybernetics and the kryptonite? It would delete the character of Metallo, but would be in line with Henshaw's vendetta against Superman. Although there's a comic book plausibility that Metallo's mind could fight back to reassert control, the cybernetic auto-protect function finding a way to oust Henshaw, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Pretty much, I see Henshaw "stepping in" and squishing Metallo's organic brain, to splice and multiply genetic material to make the organic parts he's so fond of for his appearance - something that makes no sense about Henshaw's character. He can configure himself however he wants, but chooses a half man, half machine appearance? Blah. I still want pre-Crisis Brainiac back over Henshaw.

@cbishop said:

@sethysquare said:

both great accounts. I do like the story atphantom came up with, but I would agree that he should have an emotional feel towards it.

I liked atphantom's story too. I just think the lack of the good half of the emotional spectrum is a plot hole. Like I said, insanity can hold that at bay well enough.

My biggest pet peeve with Metallo is the Cyborg Superman. He's looking for ways to discredit or defeat Supes, and can inhabit any material he wants. Why wouldn't he take over Metallo's body for the cybernetics and the kryptonite? It would delete the character of Metallo, but would be in line with Henshaw's vendetta against Superman. Although there's a comic book plausibility that Metallo's mind could fight back to reassert control, the cybernetic auto-protect function finding a way to oust Henshaw, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Pretty much, I see Henshaw "stepping in" and squishing Metallo's organic brain, to splice and multiply genetic material to make the organic parts he's so fond of for his appearance - something that makes no sense about Henshaw's character. He can configure himself however he wants, but chooses a half man, half machine appearance? Blah. I still want pre-Crisis Brainiac back over Henshaw.

I like Hank Henshaw and I think he would make for a pretty good Supervillain. I do agree that he could have taken over metallo, but then Superman already has so few super villain as it is, no point combining 2 supervillains into one, unless its temporary. And perhaps Hank Henshaw doesn't know Superman's weakness?

@sethysquare said:

I like Hank Henshaw and I think he would make for a pretty good Supervillain. I do agree that he could have taken over metallo, but then Superman already has so few super villain as it is, no point combining 2 supervillains into one, unless its temporary. And perhaps Hank Henshaw doesn't know Superman's weakness?

That could be the case in the New 52, but in Reign of the Supermen, Engine City was powered by a kryptonite engine, expressly to be a final solution against Superman. The Eradicator shielded Supes from the blast, absorbing the k-radiation and transforming it into yellow solar rays.

If that's not still in continuity, then why has Henshaw taken a halfway Supes appearance? Again, this goes back to pre-Crisis Brainiac for me. Brainiac had the power to inhabit other materials (not sure if he could do organic, but with his mental abilities, it makes sense that he would be able to), he had the urge to discredit Supes (even transforming his headship from a skull to Superman's face once, so Supes would inherit the blame for the headship attacking other worlds) and dude, he was frickin' scary! lol

The only thing Henshaw had over Brainiac is that his original form had Kryptonian DNA and metals. He has shifted his consciousness into other organic and technological materials since then, so does not have that any longer (or shouldn't, anyway). Now that Brainiac is a piece of Krypton, instead of Colu, Henshaw doesn't even have that over him.

Henshaw was originally an intentionally lame knockoff of Reed Richards, and was brought out of the mothballs to be the surprise villain in Reign of the Supermen. Why let the knockoff survive, when Brainiac could easily assume control of Hank and his powers, and be restored to his pre-Crisis threat level glory? Besides, "Brainiac" is a much cooler name than "The Cyborg" - especially since DC has put this Cyborg (the original) in a spotlight position on the JLA.

@cbishop said:

@sethysquare said:

I like Hank Henshaw and I think he would make for a pretty good Supervillain. I do agree that he could have taken over metallo, but then Superman already has so few super villain as it is, no point combining 2 supervillains into one, unless its temporary. And perhaps Hank Henshaw doesn't know Superman's weakness?

That could be the case in the New 52, but in Reign of the Supermen, Engine City was powered by a kryptonite engine, expressly to be a final solution against Superman. The Eradicator shielded Supes from the blast, absorbing the k-radiation and transforming it into yellow solar rays.

If that's not still in continuity, then why has Henshaw taken a halfway Supes appearance? Again, this goes back to pre-Crisis Brainiac for me. Brainiac had the power to inhabit other materials (not sure if he could do organic, but with his mental abilities, it makes sense that he would be able to), he had the urge to discredit Supes (even transforming his headship from a skull to Superman's face once, so Supes would inherit the blame for the headship attacking other worlds) and dude, he was frickin' scary! lol

The only thing Henshaw had over Brainiac is that his original form had Kryptonian DNA and metals. He has shifted his consciousness into other organic and technological materials since then, so does not have that any longer (or shouldn't, anyway). Now that Brainiac is a piece of Krypton, instead of Colu, Henshaw doesn't even have that over him.

Henshaw was originally an intentionally lame knockoff of Reed Richards, and was brought out of the mothballs to be the surprise villain in Reign of the Supermen. Why let the knockoff survive, when Brainiac could easily assume control of Hank and his powers, and be restored to his pre-Crisis threat level glory? Besides, "Brainiac" is a much cooler name than "The Cyborg" - especially since DC has put this Cyborg (the original) in a spotlight position on the JLA.

Well, I guess we can just call it comics then. LOL.

@sethysquare said:

Well, I guess we can just call it comics then. LOL.

lol, Too true.

@cbishop said:

You're confusing the ability to physically feel with the ability to emotionally feel. While there are certainly physical stimuli that affect our emotional responses, to take all of that away for a character would be kind of pointless. What's the point of having a human mind in a cybernetic shell if it only acts like a computer? Also, how does he not feel compassion, but does feel the urge to die, and the urge for revenge? If he's going to act like a computer, the most efficient thing to do is walk into a volcano and call it a day.

I could see the adrenaline junkie angle, driven mad because he can't physically feel, but if he can feel tortured, suicidal, vengeful, murderous, etc., he should be able to feel compassion, love and all the good stuff as well. I could completely see insanity holding most of the good stuff at bay, but not eradicating it entirely. The human brain in Metallo is his fatal flaw, as it should be. If it just acts as a computer driving the machine, then there's no reason for the brain to be there, when it could be replaced by an actual computer. In that case, Metallo would be a DC Ultron, as he was for so long, when looking for other power sources besides his missing kryptonite heart.

So basically, I like your idea, except that I think he should have the full range of emotions. Nice idea for why he's always challenging Superman. Back when he lost the kryptonite heart, he suddenly didn't make sense as a Superman foe. Still fighting Supes because he's the only one who can destroy him would make sense. The constant Ulton-like upgrades would make sense too, if it's the 'bot body automatically upgrading itself to protect itself against Superman. And hey, best upgrade to fight Superman is a kryptonite power source. ;)

I forgot I wrote this. :P

Anyway. Hmm, perhaps I didn't word it right, but my intent was not to take all of his emotions, just the ability to emotionally connect to others. That's why likened him to a guy playing a video game. The machine filters his perception of the world around him. He can still feel rage, fear, sadness, etc. But he can't connect to anyone, because to him, they're just images on a computer screen now. Characters in a video game. They don't feel real, so he can't invest himself into them anymore.

I probably need to put a lot more thought into this, but the basic idea was to deprive him of everything he enjoyed in life, and well, what do humans enjoy in life more than being around other humans?

Thanks for the input, I'm glad you liked it. :D

@AtPhantom: No problem, and I did like it. I had commented on this thread early on, so revisited it when I saw it pop up on the front page of the forums tonight. I enjoy primmaster64's passion for Superman. :)

When I saw your comment, I liked it and had to comment. I enjoyed sethysquare's input too.

BTW does anyone have a picture of Superman and all his iconic rogue villains?

@SandMan_: I see and I love it,I hope that it is similar to its latest version:

Is it just me or this new Kryptonite Man, it is very similar to Tobias Manning?

@sethysquare:

@SandMan_: http://www.comicvine.com/superman/29-1807/action-comics-annual-1/92-678548/#38

@matchesmalone21 said:

@SandMan_: I see and I love it,I hope that it is similar to its latest version:

Is it just me or this new Kryptonite Man, it is very similar to Tobias Manning?

@sethysquare:

I feel ashamed of myself, I have no idea who are hald of the people up there. How come theres no metallo, livewire, bloodspot, conduit, kryptonite man, silver banshee? LOL.

@sethysquare: Lol,no problem dude. Let us say that this is the fault of John Byrne,some classic villains are there,but after CoIE many of them are revamp and gained new guises and personalities, almost nobody could recognize them. Metallo's there,agreed with Silver Banshee,Bloodsport,Livewire,Kryptonite Man,but I think most of them had not yet (re) appeared

Left:Cyborg Superman,Metallo (the huge robot),Parasite,Dominus (tattoo on the face)

Center: Killgrave (the little guy),Brainiac (the green guy),Hi-Tech (the woman next to Brainiac) ,Kalibak (bearded guy),Satanus and Blaze

Right:,Atomic Skull,Skyhook (hooded guy)

@matchesmalone21: Those two on top left are Mokarri and Simyan actually. Short guy in the middle is Toyman and the woman next to Brainiac is Obsession.

@matchesmalone21: @Nick-SV(ril): LOL thanks. I could not recognise Cyborg Superman, Metallo and Toyman.

@Nick-SV(ril): Thanks,but in this time they are similar with these I cited. Damn John Byrne.

@sethysquare: You're welcome,saw how Byrne's revampi is very confused!! LOL

@matchesmalone21: lol. yeah, I would love to see all these villains though.

@sethysquare: LOL.

Almost agreed,I don't like to see: Blaze,she has the same powers of her brother,loses the individuality. Skyhook is a lame character,never did anything to impress or show that it can be a threat to Superman,the same with Atomic Skull.

I want like to see: Parasite as gang leader . Obsession,I'd like to see it as mix of Lucy Lane (Superwoman) and Cupid,hunting the villains. Satanus,despite have the same of his sister,he's more ruthless and is able to a directly confrontation. (Cyborg Superman,Doomsday,Toyman I want to see too)

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop: :P

What's that for? I was serious: you're passionate about Superman, you participate in the threads you start, and that makes them fun to revisit. So you ":P" me? lol

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop: Random stuff :P Still hate Hank?

Depends...is he dead yet? ;}

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop: Random stuff :P Still hate Hank?

Depends...is he dead yet? ;}

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop said:

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop: Random stuff :P Still hate Hank?

Depends...is he dead yet? ;}

He doesn't exist...yet.

Then I don't hate him...yet. :P

@matchesmalone21 said:

@sethysquare: LOL.

Almost agreed,I don't like to see: Blaze,she has the same powers of her brother,loses the individuality. Skyhook is a lame character,never did anything to impress or show that it can be a threat to Superman,the same with Atomic Skull.

I want like to see: Parasite as gang leader . Obsession,I'd like to see it as mix of Lucy Lane (Superwoman) and Cupid,hunting the villains. Satanus,despite have the same of his sister,he's more ruthless and is able to a directly confrontation. (Cyborg Superman,Doomsday,Toyman I want to see too)

Yes, I want Superwoman back. Lucy Lane is pretty hot and awesome.

@sethysquare: Yeah,very hot,awesome and ruthless...why some girls just exist in comics? LOL

What about Atlas and Codiname Asdsassin?

I do like atlas. But no idea who the other one is. I would rather have Maxima.

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop said:

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop: Random stuff :P Still hate Hank?

Depends...is he dead yet? ;}

He doesn't exist...yet.

Then I don't hate him...yet. :P

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop said:

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop said:

@SandMan_ said:

@cbishop: Random stuff :P Still hate Hank?

Depends...is he dead yet? ;}

He doesn't exist...yet.

Then I don't hate him...yet. :P

Unless you read the Smallville comic :P

Which is pretty good I gotta say.

@sethysquare said:

@SandMan_ said:

Unless you read the Smallville comic :P

Which is pretty good I gotta say.

Haven't read it. I don't think anything could honestly make me a Hank Henshaw fan.

@cbishop said:

@sethysquare said:

@SandMan_ said:

Unless you read the Smallville comic :P

Which is pretty good I gotta say.

Haven't read it. I don't think anything could honestly make me a Hank Henshaw fan.

But he hasn't adopted the mantle of cyborg superman (as per the printed issue) and he may never in smallville. It could be a totally new character.

@sethysquare: Codiname Assassin: Jonathan Drew was a former vigilante which combated the organized crime to avenge the death of his sister,years later he was a volunteer to participate in a secret government program (another supersoldier project),but during the experiment the machine where he was exploded,giving him the ability to read minds and move objects with the mind. After this incident he became a government agent to hunt supervillains and served as head of security for Project Cadmus. After many years without an appearance he was summoned by General Lane to be part of Project 7734 (the same as the Atlas was member)

@sethysquare said:

@cbishop said:

Haven't read it. I don't think anything could honestly make me a Hank Henshaw fan.

But he hasn't adopted the mantle of cyborg superman (as per the printed issue) and he may never in smallville. It could be a totally new character.

That would be okay I suppose...but then why name him Hank Henshaw? That would be like making a straight character gay for no reason, and making him too young to have two super powered kids...oh, wait...

@matchesmalone21 said:

@sethysquare: Codiname Assassin: Jonathan Drew was a former vigilante which combated the organized crime to avenge the death of his sister,years later he was a volunteer to participate in a secret government program (another supersoldier project),but during the experiment the machine where he was exploded,giving him the ability to read minds and move objects with the mind. After this incident he became a government agent to hunt supervillains and served as head of security for Project Cadmus. After many years without an appearance he was summoned by General Lane to be part of Project 7734 (the same as the Atlas was member)

Codename: Assassin should be such a cool character, but for some reason...isn't. In the pic you posted, it's funny that his color scheme is blue and orange, like Deathstroke's.

@matchesmalone21: Looks great. They need to do something with his looks though.

@cbishop: Because they before Hank Henshaw became Cyborg Superman, he is just a regular enemy of the supes and everyone deserves a story. Especially one that gained massive amount of exposure from Death of Superman.

@sethysquare: I would like to see the return of this guy too,it would be an interesting addition to theTeam 7 or a A.R.G.U.S. agents. He really need a redesign,maybe a clor change.

@cbishop:This is the fault of poor or little use of the character, through the years...is to show that he isbadass than Deathstroke. LOL

@matchesmalone21: Yeah would definitely be exciting to see him as a Team 7 of Argus agent.

@sethysquare said:

@cbishop: Because they before Hank Henshaw became Cyborg Superman, he is just a regular enemy of the supes and everyone deserves a story. Especially one that gained massive amount of exposure from Death of Superman.

To me, Hank Henshaw was a dumb move on DC's part. One of their currently most popular villains has a copied Marvel origin (unless they rewrite it in the New 52, and again I would ask: why make him Hank Henshaw then?). Henshaw, his wife, and friends were never intended to be anything except a ripoff of the Fantastic Four. Then some genius said, "Hey! Let's use him in Reign of the Supermen!" He became this wildly popular character (with Brainiac's old powers) and now they're back to not knowing what to do with him. ...I guess my problem with Hank Henshaw is that to me, he's proof that they never should have changed Brainiac. For that reason, I will probably always sneer at Hank and wish for the return of the old Brainiac lol. <shrugs> I'll live through it, but this opinion probably won't change.

@matchesmalone21 said:

@cbishop:This is the fault of poor or little use of the character, through the years...is to show that he isbadass than Deathstroke. LOL

Actually, with the history of Deathstroke - even the new history of him being part of Team 7, it would make a lot of sense if at some point, Slade was Codename: Assassin. It would be combining two characters, but like Wolverine being Weapon X, it doesn't mean there can't be another Codename: Assassin, after Slade.

@cbishop: Interesting and make sense,but I don't like Dc create his own Weapons X.

@matchesmalone21 said:

@cbishop: Interesting and make sense,but I don't like Dc create his own Weapons X.

I'm not suggesting they create their own Weapon X, I was just comparing how names get reused. If you want a DC example, there's the different people that have been Robin, Flash, Batman, Black Canary (original origin), or even Wonder Woman. All I'm really saying is it could be part of Slade's history that he was Codename: Assassin, but DC could still introduce another Codename: Assassin to the New 52, to preserve their claim on the name.

@cbishop: I understand what you said,expressed myself poorly. What I meant was that idea be followed, it would be very similar to the Weapon X and wouldn't wantthis to happenin DCnU.

It's because I do not like characters that have the same identity (less Earth's Green Lanterns) or name, it is often difficult to differentiate and lose their individuality

Agreed,I think he would be an interesting character as a kind dark reflection of Deathstroke (if such a thing is possible,LOL)oreven hunting the Team 7.

I believe MXy might be the Little Man.

@cbishop said:

@sethysquare said:

@cbishop: Because they before Hank Henshaw became Cyborg Superman, he is just a regular enemy of the supes and everyone deserves a story. Especially one that gained massive amount of exposure from Death of Superman.

To me, Hank Henshaw was a dumb move on DC's part. One of their currently most popular villains has a copied Marvel origin (unless they rewrite it in the New 52, and again I would ask: why make him Hank Henshaw then?). Henshaw, his wife, and friends were never intended to be anything except a ripoff of the Fantastic Four. Then some genius said, "Hey! Let's use him in Reign of the Supermen!" He became this wildly popular character (with Brainiac's old powers) and now they're back to not knowing what to do with him. ...I guess my problem with Hank Henshaw is that to me, he's proof that they never should have changed Brainiac. For that reason, I will probably always sneer at Hank and wish for the return of the old Brainiac lol. <shrugs> I'll live through it, but this opinion probably won't change.

@matchesmalone21 said:

@cbishop:This is the fault of poor or little use of the character, through the years...is to show that he isbadass than Deathstroke. LOL

Actually, with the history of Deathstroke - even the new history of him being part of Team 7, it would make a lot of sense if at some point, Slade was Codename: Assassin. It would be combining two characters, but like Wolverine being Weapon X, it doesn't mean there can't be another Codename: Assassin, after Slade.

They werent copying as much as making fun of fantastic four. Besides, Marvel is known to copying also yet tons of those copied characters got real popular. Like Deadpool, Ironman and etc. Also Brainiac still exist isnt he?

@matchesmalone21 said:

@cbishop: I understand what you said,expressed myself poorly. What I meant was that idea be followed, it would be very similar to the Weapon X and wouldn't wantthis to happenin DCnU.

It's because I do not like characters that have the same identity (less Earth's Green Lanterns) or name, it is often difficult to differentiate and lose their individuality

Agreed,I think he would be an interesting character as a kind dark reflection of Deathstroke (if such a thing is possible,LOL)oreven hunting the Team 7.

I'd rather see Deathstroke doing that personally. I feel like Slade's the premiere assassin in DC - Lady Shiva is somehow on a different playing field. I'd rather see C: Assassin as a "close second." (Just a personal preference)

@sethysquare said:

They werent copying as much as making fun of fantastic four. Besides, Marvel is known to copying also yet tons of those copied characters got real popular. Like Deadpool, Ironman and etc. Also Brainiac still exist isnt he?

Brainiac exists, but not like he did in the 80's. He's a pale reflection of his past glory.

@cbishop: Hasn't Brainiac always been around. Educate me if I'm wrong, he used to be the entity that destroyed Krypton?

Then he got retconned to a rogue member of Colu?

Now he is an AI from Krypton much like the animated series.

@sethysquare: The original Brainiac origin was that he was a Coluan. He first encountered Supes while trying to shrink Earth cities into bottles for his collection. This is how Superman came into possession of the Bottle City of Kandor. A later story revealed him to be a machine, and still later, he took the skeletal-machine appearance that became my favorite. It was the skeletal Brainiac that originally had the Skull Ship, in the same image as his own head. Bent on having revenge against Supes, he even manipulated the ship's visage into that of Superman's at one point, so it would appear that a giant likeness of Superman was destroying alien cities and planets. The skeletal Brainiac had the power to mentally control others, and broadcast his consciousness into other machinery - the Skull Ship was eventually an extension of himself.

All the stuff about Brainiac being from Krypton originally came from the Superman cartoon, and IMO, was a brilliant tweak on the character.

What would be cool now is if the two were merged a bit. I could think of ways to link the Coluan Brainiac and the Kryptonian Brainiac. I could also link Brainiac and The Eradicator(s), and link The Eradicator to Firestorm, therefore linking Firestorm to the Superman Family (that is, if Firestorm weren't already intro'd in the New 52).

Looking at the Brainiac page, it looks like the New 52 is bringing some of the old Brainiac back. If they do that, then to me, Hank Henshaw is redundant. Henshaw has become popular enough though that I could see the two being merged. It would give Brainiac a human identity, and more reason to be fixated on Earth, than because Superman lives there. It would give Henshaw more reason to be fixated on Superman, than simply because he blames Supes for the deaths of his colleagues.

@cbishop: The new 52 isn't bringing the old brainy back. The new 52 took the origins of Brainiac from the animated series. He is sorta an AI that "escaped" krypton and went on a trip to amass as much information and knowledge as possible due to the nature of his original program and how it was tweaked. Which is why he went from galaxies to galaxies to bottle them. Which is kinda like from STAS and yes I think its brilliant as well.

@sethysquare: Yeah, but they've sort of brought back the Skull Ship appearance, and some of the pre-COIE elements of Brainiac. I prefer the 'toon tweaks to a degree, but the skeletal Brainiac was just downright threatening. When that Brainiac appeared, you knew Superman was in for a bad day. He was pretty freakin' cool.

@cbishop: I do agree that Brainiac is Supes most threatening villain. I really liked the version in Smallville as well. LOL.

@sethysquare: The one in Smallville was a cool character, but was so far removed from the comic version, I couldn't accept him as Brainiac. To a degree, anything "Kryptonian" on the show, other than Clark, I had an issue with. Especially Jor-El. He spent all this time on Earth, and secreted these Kryptonian things everywhere. He had an influence on Native American religion. Either that, or he did cave drawings himself, which makes no sense. Also, if he could somehow get to Earth, way back in the day, how is it that he was only able to get Clark off the planet on Krypton's doomsday, and nobody else? I loved the show enough to have it on DVD, but it took some serious leaps that totally depart from the comics. Nevermind that kryptonite gave humans powers.