#101 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21: yeah. i agree. sups has much better villains than alot of other superheroes. Writers just refuse to develop them well. Compared to spidey villains like rhino and the one appearing in the current spidey movie, sups villains just look so much better.

#102 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@matchesmalone21
Now...Let's talk about new villains.
#103 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio

The should have done more with Helspont. They kinda dropped the ball there.

#104 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9199 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Surely it's like Batman's villains, they are great,all are distorted reflections of own hero as the same with Superman's villains,like Luthor and Bizarro,Bizarro (clone version) because Luthor created just what he saw in Superman,a monster. Luthor because,as the saying power corrupts, it is what Superman could be, if he let the power go to his head. But as the villains of Batman, the writers did not know how to develop them right,like a bunch of gangsters and murderers..no one thing that differentiates it from other. As Luthor for example, after he became President of the United States (which I thought was brilliant and innovative) and be deposed (in that horrible story write by Jeph Loeb),he no longer seems to be that smart guy from before. But thank God, Paul Cornel took him out of obscurity and Grant Morrison give the villains a new look and direction. I can not wait to see the return of Luthor. what you think of Steel appearence?

I'll be honest with you, I hate Spiderman's villains, as much as try to show that they are important, not convincing me.

@SandMan_:I saw but did not like the villains,those appearing in the Superman comics,he deserves better villains than 3 elemental aliens,Jax Ur (A villain posing as Superman,is already an outdated concept), but I love those appear in Action Comics,has not yet appeared any new,Grant Morrison is revisiting old villains and giving new directions, like the Litttle Man or “Teetotaler,”I think he actually is Mr. Mxyptlk with a new really cool concept. Not sure about Nimrod, but probably it is an old character too or a new one,he seems to be a great character. Grant is doing to Superman what he did with Batman, giving a metaphysical and mythical concept,So that with Superman, he's reflecting their stories with certain parts of the bible,what people already did with the Superman shows him as a kind of savior and guide of humanity ( as show in Kingdom Come,in JSA series). About Brainiac think that this was not the real,just a probe.

In other words,I'm loving some Superman villains!!!

@Dernman: He only had a small part in the series,for what he says has big plans and then returned....and apparently he is not behind the Daemonites attacks,for years he was stuck in space due to the betrayal of his race. The only thing I ask is if he is not the mastermind of the attacks, who is?

#105 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@matchesmalone21: I think that was answered in an early issue of Grifter. He was coming through a portal then it collapsed. I forget the name.
#106 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@matchesmalone21: Nimrod is a  Hunter. Seems pretty cool.
#107 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio

How about a superhumans from other countries who do not like the fact that there are so many superheroes in America and they particularly fear Superman being seen as an "American" asset. We are going to see America create Team 7 to deal with Superman if he goes rouge. Wouldn't other countries create teams in fear to counter act not only Superman but the growing number of metas in America? They could focus on Superman because they view him as the biggest threat.

#108 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
How about a superhumans from other countries who do not like the fact that there are so many superheroes in America and they particularly fear Superman being seen as an "American" asset. We are going to see America create Team 7 to deal with Superman if he goes rouge. Wouldn't other countries create teams in fear to counter act not only Superman but the growing number of metas in America? They could focus on Superman because they view him as the biggest threat.
Pre-Flashpoint Everyone pretty much made some kind of weapon to kill Superman if he ever went rouge.
#109 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_: We talked about bringing back Maxima but what about Ultraa. Give him a push for a recurring villain.
#110 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: Maxima would be good.
 
Ultraa..Hmm
#111 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio

No Prime.

#112 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
No Prime.
They should retcon him.
#113 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_ said:
@Dernman said:
No Prime.
They should retcon him.
It  more then that for me.  I don't really like his personality as a villain and also.
He has basically the same face as Superman like Henshaw, Superboy, Eradicator, Ultraman, even Bizzaro before he deteriorates.
He's another of a million that wears the S symbol. Another with the name Super in it.
#114 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
@SandMan_ said:
@Dernman said:
No Prime.
They should retcon him.
It  more then that for me.  I don't really like his personality as a villain and also.He has basically the same face as Superman like Henshaw, Superboy, Eradicator, Ultraman, even Bizzaro before he deteriorates.He's another of a million that wears the S symbol. Another with the name Super in it.
An evil Superman? Or a good Superman.
#115 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_: Elaborate please.
#116 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: Prime had potential to be a good Superman villain or supporting cast... but John's f*cked it up.
#117 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_: Either it just annoys me when they clutter things like that. Keep the copies away. Each time you add another you water down Superman bit by bit.
#118 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
@SandMan_: Either it just annoys me when they clutter things like that. Keep the copies away. Each time you add another you water down Superman bit by bit.
Oh well.
#119 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9199 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: I also liked him, thought the idea of ​​basing it on a biblical character, a touch of genius and knowing Grant Morisson, it is also based on an old character who appeared in old Superman comics. Did you know that the Batwing is based on a character from a parallel Earth (created in 60's), known as Blackwing? Many people thought he was original, but Grant loves to revive concepts and shows them that they may well be actual.

You saw the synopsis of Superman Annual? Where Superman, will fight on an alien planet, I'm thinking that Mongul will re-making his first appearance. What do you think?

Agreed Prime,could be well used.

@Dernman: Thanks,I did not buy the Grifter comics. I believe that Team 7 is more than an anti-superman,because the government already now the country has many and many other metahumans,if they only hunt him,would still have to face much more (may not be the only focus,another way to distract from their true mission) and the Team 7 comis is linked with Trinity War,because they are who rescued,those objects that are stored in the Black Room.

Which Superman villain you would like to return?

#120 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@matchesmalone21 said: 

@Dernman: Thanks, I did not buy the Grifter comics. I believe that Team 7 is more than an anti-superman,because the government already now the country has many and many other metahumans, if they only hunt him, would still have to face much more ( may not be the only focus, another way to distract from their true mission) and the Team 7 comis is linked with Trinity War,because they are who rescued,those objects that are stored in the Black Room.

Which Superman villain you would like to return?

I never thought Team 7 book would just be about Superman. What I was saying was the original Team 7 were formed to take Superman down.  T here is a question of when the book will take place in the past or present. If it's in the past it will be during the times of Action comic but I think they will move on to the present quickly and the team will have different members  and expanded their original mission to encompass all metas  because the original roster has moved on since then. Grifter quit, Deathstroke became a merc, Dina is on the run, Steve Trevor working with Argus, Waller is running a prison and Task Force X.
 
Who would I like to see. A rebooted/reimagined Henshaw, rebooted/reimagined Eradicator, Evil Deteriorating Clone Bizzaro, Maxima, Mongul, Ultraa but the one with the connection to Maxima not the original, Draaga, Lobo, rebooted Manchester Black, rebooted Massacre, rebooted Parasite, Toy Man but make him like a Batman villain so Superman has to use him mind to solve a Mystery and not something he pounds. Something out of his comfort zone. 
 
I wouldn't mind Superman poaching more villains from either Wildstorm or non Superman rogues from old DCU. Heh There might even consider turning some heroes into villains if they are the right ones.
#121 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: Sorry guy,I expressed myself badly, I meant to also think the same way about Team 7 and added just a few more things. Ok?

Agreed in almost villains,I don't like Ultraa..I can't see him as a threat to Sups,about Toyman would be interesting to see him as shown in Justice minisseries,with that troubled mind,which had hatred of children, for not being happy in his childhood and for it he became a villain. I would like the less knowing villains comeback,like Reactron,Preus,Remnant (from Superman: Day of Doom),Subjekt-17,Mirabai and Dr. Hamilton must return as Ruin,he proved to be a mental challenge for him.

I agree we need more interaction between characters DC and Wildstorm,the new 52 is more to dc than wildstorm. Which Wildstorm heroe,you turn into a villain? I would turn the Last Call,his very similar with Midnigther pre-new 52. would be a great challenge

#122 Posted by Gambit1024 (9843 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, all I want to see is Bizarro done right. He's supposed to be a dark mirrored version of Superman. Not retarded.

#123 Posted by buttersdaman000 (10581 posts) - - Show Bio
Cyborg Superman: First off, it irks me that he was basically made into a Green Lantern villain. Give him back to Superman but this time don't make them look so similar. Through some freak accident his body is mixed with pseudo-kryptonian DNA and machinery, giving him technopathy and some kryptonian powers. He also wears the crest only to mock Superman.   
 
Brainiac: In my opinion, his back story needs to be tweaked mostly because of Kandor. I really hope(d) that Superman and a select few others are the only surviving memebers of their race. Having too many is just a disaster. Anyways, I'm thinking he should be more of a mental threat than a physical one.... 
 
Maxima: Bring her back, let her and Superman romance for a while. 
 
New Villain?: I always wanted Superman to have a silver surfer type of villain, somebody different from his usual type....
#124 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@buttersdaman000 said:
Cyborg Superman: First off, it irks me that he was basically made into a Green Lantern villain. Give him back to Superman but this time don't make them look so similar. Through some freak accident his body is mixed with pseudo-kryptonian DNA and machinery, giving him technopathy and some kryptonian powers. He also wears the crest only to mock Superman.   
 
Brainiac: In my opinion, his back story needs to be tweaked mostly because of Kandor. I really hope(d) that Superman and a select few others are the only surviving memebers of their race. Having too many is just a disaster. Anyways, I'm thinking he should be more of a mental threat than a physical one.... 
 
Maxima: Bring her back, let her and Superman romance for a while. 
 
New Villain?: I always wanted Superman to have a silver surfer type of villain, somebody different from his usual type....
pretty cool
#125 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: Agreed. It should be like the version that appeared in the miniseries Justice,with a monstrous personality.

#126 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@matchesmalone21 said:

@Gambit1024: Agreed. It should be like the version that appeared in the miniseries Justice,with a monstrous personality.

How about a Bizarro that is just evil?
#127 Posted by Gambit1024 (9843 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21: Never read it. What do you mean monstrous? Like Hulk?

#128 Edited by Thorion88 (302 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_:

Then what would honestly separate Bizarro from the other evil Kryptonians like General Zod, Ultraman, Jax-Ur, Preus, etc. Other than a slight variation powers? Your honestly making him cannon fodder in the long run by making him straight up evil.

But Honestly imo, whats going against any of Superman's foes. Is that eventually they all become canon fodder, no better examples are Darkseid & Mongul, and seems to be affecting another high tier foe in Helspont. Darkseid, whom if written the way he was originally intended should pimp slap Superman around like he's a $2 female entertainer, and be used exclusively for cosmic shifting events. Instead unlike with Thanos, Darkseid gets his butt handed to him by Superman even as far as getting his arm broken and shoved into the Source Wall in one comic thereby destroying any idea that Darkseid was ever a threat while making him into Jobberseid.

Or Mongul when he debut, was made clear that he was indeed more powerful than Superman, and numerous times after that. Then we roll into the Modern age and Mongul's not only getting slapped around by Superman, but also by Kyle Rayner and Wally West, then killed off by Neron in a rather humiliating manner. His "son" & daughter later on didn't fair all that much better neither, and both a seemingly dead now as well.

Helspont, was one of WIldstorms biggest villains, and one who was also more powerful then Superman, and when it was announced Superman was going to be meeting him, did people over blow this out of the water, "finally a quality opponent". Comic comes out and it's a major disappointing event all together.

Sorry Superman's biggest weakness, is that he also has a high jobbing aura whether his fans want to admit it or not. Sure it's not as high as say Batmans(when his in the overall DCU), or Cap. America, but it's up there regardless. DC needs to decide how strong this guy actually is and begin to actually enforce it.

#129 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thorion88: What would you do to not make Bizarro look retarded and actually make him menacing?
 
Its Loeb man who wrote that...You know what that means...
 
The whole point of Mongul, what he was originally created for, was for Superman to have a physical superior and actually give the Man of Steel problems. But yeah I agree.
 
Dan Jurges. Though Hellspont did K.O Superman. And i'm sure he'll want revenge on Superman.
 
Indeed.DC gotta get they're s**t together.
#130 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: No no,not talking physically, psychologically. I'm talking about he likes,what he is a psychopathic monster

#131 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
Darkseid: Should be a Justice League villain not a Superman villain and it looked that they were going back that way to me at least in JLA
 
Mongul: Is a perfect villain for Superman. Make him a bit stronger but  bit slower to even it out. 
 
Helspont: Sorry I just have no problem with him being Superman's new rogue or equal in power. Did the story suck? Yes they treated Helspont like he was fill in villain. 
 
Characters job to him but he also jobs a lot to many characters more.
#132 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
Darkseid: Should be a Justice League villain not a Superman villain and it looked that they were going back that way to me at least in JLA
 
Mongul: Is a perfect villain for Superman. Make him a bit stronger but  bit slower to even it out. 
 
Helspont: Sorry I just have no problem with him being Superman's new rogue or equal in power. Did the story suck? Yes they treated Helspont like he was fill in villain.  Characters job to him but he also jobs a lot to many characters more.
I always saw Darkseid as a Superman villain. Everything that had to do with Darkseid and New Gods, the only superhero that has a connection to them is Superman. Besides, don't know if its relevant or not, but Darksied first appearance was in a Superman comic.
#133 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

I always saw Darkseid as a Superman villain. Everything that had to do with Darkseid and New Gods, the only superhero that has a connection to them is Superman. Besides, don't know if its relevant or not, but Darksied first appearance was in a Superman comic.

Yes and no. His first appearance was in Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen, which was at the time given to Kirby and made part of the Fourth World tetralogy. But this appearance in that book is simply a foreshadowing. He's on a screen in one scene for like half a second and that serves to show just how he'll be a big deal later on. He is only fully established as a character in New Gods #1.

#134 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_ said:
@Dernman said:
Darkseid: Should be a Justice League villain not a Superman villain and it looked that they were going back that way to me at least in JLA
 
Mongul: Is a perfect villain for Superman. Make him a bit stronger but  bit slower to even it out. 
 
Helspont: Sorry I just have no problem with him being Superman's new rogue or equal in power. Did the story suck? Yes they treated Helspont like he was fill in villain.  Characters job to him but he also jobs a lot to many characters more.
I always saw Darkseid as a Superman villain. Everything that had to do with Darkseid and New Gods, the only superhero that has a connection to them is Superman. Besides, don't know if its relevant or not, but Darksied first appearance was in a Superman comic.
Oh I know why you think that and there is an argument for both cases. Me I just see him and the Dark Ruler of Gods thing he has going on and thing he should be more then one man should take on. Even one like Superman. 
#135 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:

@SandMan_ said:

I always saw Darkseid as a Superman villain. Everything that had to do with Darkseid and New Gods, the only superhero that has a connection to them is Superman. Besides, don't know if its relevant or not, but Darksied first appearance was in a Superman comic.

Yes and no. His first appearance was in Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen, which was at the time given to Kirby and made part of the Fourth World tetralogy. But this appearance in that book is simply a foreshadowing. He's on a screen in one scene for like half a second and that serves to show just how he'll be a big deal later on. He is only fully established as a character in New Gods #1.

Yes, I always saw Darkseid as a New gods villain well, because he is. But whenever it has to do anything with Earth. Superman, almost all of the time, is the one that stops him. Also Superman was the one who kinda stopped him in JLA.
#136 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: That is debatable. There has been times where Darkseid just b!tch slapped Superman.
#137 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

Yes, I always saw Darkseid as a New gods villain well, because he is. But whenever it has to do anything with Earth. Superman, almost all of the time, is the one that stops him. Also Superman was the one who kinda stopped him in JLA.

I suppose that's fair. But the thing is, there is no real reason for Superman to stop him. Superman simply stands up to him because he's generally the most powerful dude around. This is fine and makes sense and all, but it's also a pretty lousy thing to base a hero/villain relationship on. LIke Mongul, Darkseid exists in Superman comics simply because he is a giant ass threat, and there's only so many ways to spin that before it gets stale and villain decay sets in.

And I'm not saying Darkseid shouldn't be in Superman stories. No, what you said about Superman being Darkseid's greatest opponent on Earth makes sense. But ultimately Darkseid was made to serve and all together different story than Superman's. To pair them together adds little to either. That's why Darkseid shouldn't be considered a Superman's villain, but rather a villain who fights Superman.

#138 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:

@SandMan_ said:

Yes, I always saw Darkseid as a New gods villain well, because he is. But whenever it has to do anything with Earth. Superman, almost all of the time, is the one that stops him. Also Superman was the one who kinda stopped him in JLA.

I suppose that's fair. But the thing is, there is no real reason for Superman to stop him. Superman simply stands up to him because he's generally the most powerful dude around. This is fine and makes sense and all, but it's also a pretty lousy thing to base a hero/villain relationship on. LIke Mongul, Darkseid exists in Superman comics simply because he is a giant ass threat, and there's only so many ways to spin that before it gets stale and villain decay sets in.

And I'm not saying Darkseid shouldn't be in Superman stories. No, what you said about Superman being Darkseid's greatest opponent on Earth makes sense. But ultimately Darkseid was made to serve and all together different story than Superman's. To pair them together adds little to either. That's why Darkseid shouldn't be considered a Superman's villain, but rather a villain who fights Superman.

I don't see that way exactly. He IS a Superman villain. Darkseid biggest beef with any Earth hero is with Superman. Pre-Flashpoint it was like this. Though I agree that Darkseid should be more powerful than Superman and so should Mongul, whose purpose since the day he was created was to be a physical thread to Superman. I can see that Dakrseid's purpose is bigger than to be a Superman villain. More of a villain of everyone. And why would they need a team if Superman ca take care of him by himself. I can aree to that.
 
But Dakrseid just pretty much struck a cord in almost everything Superman related. Remember that Brave and The Bold episode with him in it. In youtube, like around 40 % of the people where asking, ''Where's Superman?'', ''Is Superman taking a vacation or what?'', ect.
#139 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: @matchesmalone21: How about Blaze and Satanus?
#140 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_: Well it could explore how he reacts to magic in the 52.
#141 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: This is actually a record for you. You actually replied me....in a matter of minutes...We gotta celebrate this!
 
Well, it brings out possibilities.
#142 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9199 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: I like both characters,but I'd rather he faces only one of them, because both have the same powers,would be nice to see the magic invading the city of tomorrow

#143 Edited by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_
 Already started dancing.
#144 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@matchesmalone21: @Dernman: Which one? Or should it be both?
#145 Posted by Dernman (15813 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_: Satanus by himself. Both together is to much. Leave blaze for another character.
#146 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9199 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: I prefer Satanus,he is more apt to direct confrontation than Blaze,she likes to do more than mind games and manipulating people to fight in her place and in view of what he did in Reign in Hell, he is the best choice.

#147 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: @matchesmalone21: Both of you prefer Satanus....Cool. Let's see if Lobdell ever sees this.
#148 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

Is anyone excited to see Eradicator return to DCnU in Superman #0

#149 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@Dernman: @matchesmalone21: Both of you prefer Satanus....Cool. Let's see if Lobdell ever sees this.

I dunno guys. I'm not that fond of magic villains. I would rather have characters like Bloodsport or Insect Queen.

#150 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@sethysquare: That's right Eradicator....
 
Why not?