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#1 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (202 posts) - - Show Bio

Here it is fanboy's!! At your request, and just in time for Superman's 75th birthday! The most demanded Definitive Write Up article ever...”HULK VS SUPERMAN”!!! That's right true believers, I've been asked over and over to give an exhaustive, detailed account on everything you ever wanted to know about DC's ultimate icon taking on Marvel's rampaging engine of destruction. Who would win? Who's the stronger? Who is the true Super-Heavyweight Champion of the comic book world? It's all answered here for the first time ever, included with opinions from some of the greatest creators in the industry! And since this is such a monumental write up, I included as a super-special bonus...a detailed history of DC and Marvel working together to give fans their ultimate fanboy wishes in all aspects of the media! Did you know that both comic companies co-owned the trademark “SUPER HEROES” since the late 70's?? Yes my friends, it's all here!! So check it out and enjoy the finest in comic-battle excellence from the best Superhero blog on the net...HERO ENVY!!!

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/04/hulk-vs-superman.html

#2 Edited by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't use non-canon fights as evidence in something like this. In one of the crossovers, Hulk was beaten by Batman when he was kicked in the chest. They're not accurate depictions of power levels.

#3 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

lol

#4 Posted by turoksonofstone (13194 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't use non-canon fights as evidence in something like this. In one of the crossovers, Hulk was beaten by Batman when he was kicked in the chest. They're not accurate depictions of power levels.

Batman kicked Hulk to make him inhale a gas. Why would he be unable to use a crossover in his own blog-post on a different site?

#5 Edited by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I was expecting a misinformed write up and I got just that. Even though you eventually came to the right conclusion, you used non canon crossovers to justify your views. And unless stated otherwise, crossovers aren't canon so your argument is already undermined. Even JLA/Avengers, the one crossover which DC and Marvel have acknowledged to be canon is debatable

As to David's point about the Hulk, it's possible no doubt about that but it would only swing in the Hulk's favour if he got very, very strong. Even then, Superman's hypersonic+ combat speed and nanosecond reaction times cancel that out very very easily. So my point is that even if the fight does go on, Hulk's not going to be able to lay a finger on Superman since his reaction time and combat speed pales in comparison to Superman's. This is why feats are the all important benchmark for who wins in a fight.

#6 Edited by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb said:

You can't use non-canon fights as evidence in something like this. In one of the crossovers, Hulk was beaten by Batman when he was kicked in the chest. They're not accurate depictions of power levels.

Batman kicked Hulk to make him inhale a gas. Why would he be unable to use a crossover in his own blog-post on a different site?

A kick to Hulk's chest from a human would not have made him inhale. And I'm saying he can't use it as evidence because its inaccurate and not canon.

#7 Posted by turoksonofstone (13194 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb:

They have no actual "Cannon" encounters. Whats more DC has no cannon. and I disagree.

#8 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb:

They have no actual "Cannon" encounters. Whats more DC has no cannon. and I disagree.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

#9 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1390 posts) - - Show Bio

that batman/hulk thingy there was just silly and painful to even contemplate.

#10 Posted by consolemaster001 (4480 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes wins

#11 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, crossovers don't mean jack. Realistically, if Batman kicked Hulk, all of Batman's bones would break on contact. If Batman kicks his leg breaks...

Youre write up is very misinformed, crossovers arent canon. They mean nothing, and they inaccurate.

Speaking of crossovers, one crossover: Hulk punches Superman all day and nothing happens, jump ahead a few years Hulk knocks Superman into space. Inaccurate, inconsistent and unusable for your argument. If you're going to accept one crossover to suit your purpose, then you must accept them all and therefore: Venom kicks the crap out of Superman.

Anyways, the hard thing about Hulk and Superman is that their strength/power levels have been so inconsistent to properly gauge. It really depends on the version...

Original versions:

Original Hulk vs Original Superman.

Original Superman couldn't fly and could barely lift a car...original Hulk was grey and was around the 50-ton level. Original Hulk wipes the floor with original Superman.

Most powerful versions:

Worldbreaker Hulk vs Pre-Crisis Superman

Superman destroys.

Current versions:

Indestructible Hulk vs new52 Superman.

Tough, but I'd have to say Hulk. Superman in the new 52 has been majorly toned down due to backlash towards the character for being "overpowered". While Hulk has only been made far more powerful than he used to..,and I think Hulk wins by a hair.

Most iconic/traditional versions:

Traditional Hulk vs traditional Superman.

I'd have to say Superman just by a hair, first off his freeze breath wouldn't do anything because Hulk can just break free and Hulk withstood heat vision quite simile to Superman's it was twice as hot as the sun so heat vision wouldn't work. At the end of the day Supes would have go physical, now realistically speaking I'd say Superman's strength is around the same as an enraged Hulk strength. Their blows would deal the same amount of damage, since Superman can strike faster he would most likely.

But the write up was ridiculous.

#12 Posted by Saren (24348 posts) - - Show Bio

Query: who demanded this?

Moderator Online
#13 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

Query: who demanded this?

His fans but no one from here. He has quite a following on his blog unfortunately. The OP has written several 'definitive' accounts of match ups such as Superman vs Captain Marvel, Thor vs Hulk, Hulk vs Hercules and more. One of his write ups for his Superman vs Captain Marvel article is being published in a magazine in the future. He justifies Captain Marvel winning based on a Golden Age fight between GA Superman and Earth S Captain Marvel as well as Superman's vulnerability to magic. God help us all if that becomes the criteria for Superman losing to CM...

#14 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like the fact the OP referred to us all as "fanboys."

#15 Posted by lightsout (1811 posts) - - Show Bio

No one demanded this. In fact, I think most would pay to NOT be assaulted with this sort of crap over & over & over.

#16 Posted by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't use non-canon fights as evidence in something like this. In one of the crossovers, Hulk was beaten by Batman when he was kicked in the chest. They're not accurate depictions of power levels.

It wasn't just any kick though, It was the batkick.

#17 Posted by turoksonofstone (13194 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I haven't read this entire thread but if anyone really believes that Wolverine stands a chance against the Hulk then what hope does the Hulk have against Superman.

How would the Hulk compensate for Superman's speed feats?

#19 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (202 posts) - - Show Bio

My buddy Dan Jurgens sent me this message about Hulk vs Superman. And was Doomsday based on the Hulk? Read this fanboys...

"Fun stuff, John! When I was a kid, I always wanted to see a Hulk/Superman fight. My theory was always that the Hulk was so savage, so raw and able to "fight dirty", that he'd beat Superman. It's important to note that, at that time, DC's Superman was more passive and laid back. We're talking early 70's here.

In a way, that was the birth of what would eventually become Doomsday.

However, by the time I was doing Superman and we did the DC/Marvel x-over, it seemed more as though Superman would win. That Superman was a little more down-and-dirty, while the Hulk had actually become more restrained, civil and intelligent."

-Dan Jurgens

#20 Edited by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

That's interesting . . . It seems like this debate conveniently excludes Superman's full arsenal of power even when you've worked on the character.

If Superman were the kind of character to kill, Hulk would be deaded where he stood before the fight ever got started. Hulk is outclassed in every way.

@jj62 said:

Tough, but I'd have to say Hulk. Superman in the new 52 has been majorly toned down due to backlash towards the character for being "overpowered".

I'm not sure where you're getting that from, I don't think Superman has ever been more powerful than this n52 version. I think the Hulk would have a problem lifting the mass density of the Earth at all, let alone for as long as Superman did.

#21 Edited by deaditegonzo (3424 posts) - - Show Bio

Im going to "settle" all the big time debates once and for all:

Superman Beats:

-Hulk (Not really a fair fight)

-Thor

-Goku (Once again, a blow out)

Superman SHOULD be beaten by:

-Silver Surfer

-Martian Manhunter

-Of Course Highfathers and the like

There, its settled (probably not).

#22 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Im going to "settle" all the big time debates once and for all:

Superman Beats:

-Hulk (Not really a fair fight)

-Thor

-Goku (Once again, a blow out)

Superman SHOULD be beaten by:

-Silver Surfer

-Martian Manhunter

-Of Course Highfathers and the like

There, its settled (probably not).

Yeah, this sounds plausible, I'm with you on most of them.

#23 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (202 posts) - - Show Bio

What about Captain Marvel?

#24 Posted by Z3RO180 (5943 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo Superman might be able to beat thor and thor might be able to Superman. I would say its pretty evenly matched In tearms of raw strength other than those Mjolnir has a whole load of magic tricks and Supes has well a lot of tricks of his own.

#25 Posted by Eternal19 (2074 posts) - - Show Bio

No more Hulk vs Superman Threads. We all know That Superman Curbstomps hulk anyway so, why keep making threads about it.

#26 Edited by deaditegonzo (3424 posts) - - Show Bio

@mego_stretch_hulk said:

What about Captain Marvel?

Captain Marvel is a fun fight, but it comes down to the fact that he is always shown QUITE a bit slower than Supes in both travel and combat. All other things being just about equal, I say that gives Supes the edge.

Magic against Supes is highly overrated, and it is something thats gone back and forth over the years, but regardless of that, the Captain usually only has one true magic attack, Zeus's Lightning Bolt, and its far more deadly to him than Superman.

Another one, speaking of Captains, is Captain Atom, who should be far out of Superman's class, able to give the Silver Surfer and Martian Manhunter a run for their money, yet he is frequently poorly portrayed (like Silver Surfer or Martian Manhunter are in fact).

@z3ro180 said:

@deaditegonzo Superman might be able to beat thor and thor might be able to Superman. I would say its pretty evenly matched In tearms of raw strength other than those Mjolnir has a whole load of magic tricks and Supes has well a lot of tricks of his own.

I'm in the minority on this one, as the majority opinion seems to be Supes would win, but tis not a blow out, but everything ive ever seen leads me to believe that Superman outclasses Thor in every way except energy projection (what with Mjolnirs Magical Blasts), and so Thor wouldnt stand much of a chance. Particularly as he is the brickiest brick of them all. His speed has been shown super human on, like 3 occasions, and is generally just shown to be above enhanced human. Cap called him out on it, Wolverine punked him. This is partly why I have trouble giving Silver Surfer the nod over Superman in an ACTUAL Comic Book battle, he and Thor have basically split their victories down the middle when fighting, when on paper, SS should stomp imo.

#27 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (4693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: If it means anything his "definitive write ups" are nothing more than him justifying why his favorite heroes(hulk and captain marvel) win every fight and disregarding alot of facts and feats to make his favorite heroes look better.

#28 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: If it means anything his "definitive write ups" are nothing more than him justifying why his favorite heroes(hulk and captain marvel) win every fight and disregarding alot of facts and feats to make his favorite heroes look better.

Uh huh couldn't agree more. I take it you've seen some of his poorly written match ups before? He only bases it on the times each character has fought each other and not their other feats. He told me he bases it on the fact the writers don't look at past feats when writing a fight which whilst it may be true, is still ludicrous all the same.

#29 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (4693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Ive seen most of them and everytime he gets to the analysis i want to bang my head against the wall cause its so stupid. The analysis of a fanboy disregarding facts to make his hero win is painful to read. What bother me the most is how he assumes his blog is the answer to the rivalry and thinks his blog puts an end to any debate because his deluded "write up" answers it

#30 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21: Did you know his Captain Marvel vs Superman one is getting published in a magazine? It makes me want to scream that people will consider his biased write up the definitive way to compare who wins between Superman and Captain Marvel.

#31 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (4693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Is it a superman hating magazine or a captain marvel fanboy magazine? Im not expert on superman but from what ive read and seen, his weakness to magic isnt really a weakness but more of he doesnt have an invulnerability to it. His write up made it sound like the very presence of captain marvel is killing superman kinda like kryptonite. Superman seems to have the edge in pretty much every major category and logic would dictate that superman wins. im no expert on either hero but thats what ive found

#32 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21: Neither. It's some kind of superhero magazine that has a range of features in it. I'll try and find the name of it later since I can't seem to find it now. And I completely agree with the rest of your post. Superman does have a slight edge in terms of striking power, physical strength and durability as well as a massive edge in combat speed and reaction times. The funny thing is that my post on his Hulk vs Superman post attracted some of the most ridiculous responses ever. Here's my post for an example

"With all due respect, non canon fights between Superman and the Hulk cannot be used as evidence as to who wins. Should I remind you of the Batman/Hulk crossover where Batman defeated the Hulk by kicking him in the stomach thus opening his lungs to knockout gas when the Hulk has been shown to be durable enough to shrug off human attacks like they were nothing? Besides they're unofficial meetings between characters and do not accurately depict a character's power level.

As for David's point, I won't doubt its possibility of happening given that he knows Hulk very well and Superman quite well. What I will say is that it would be unlikely to happen that Hulk would have more of a chance of winning as the fight goes on. Superman's vastly superior combat speed and nanosecond reaction times are leaps and bounds ahead of the Hulk's own reaction times. Even if Hulk does get stronger than Superman and he'd have to get very strong to do that, it doesn't mean he can hit him. On the other hand, Superman can hit Hulk many more times than Hulk can hit Superman. So, as has been in the case on many battle forums for a long time, it's generally agreed that Superman massively outclasses the Hulk already. Pitting a brick against a flying, superfast brick does have an obvious outcome."

And here are 2 of the dumbest responses ever

  • if it's published it's canon deal with it
  • What is this guy even talking about? Crossover stories are non-cannon yet the only time the Hulk and Superman can meet is in a crossover story. I'm sorry, but this is the dumbest post I have ever read in my life. Seriously, what is he talking about?

    I have to ask because I'm curious, why do you say these things? Please tell me your reasoning for even making such statements?

    I have to know!!

The only worthy response to posts like those is this

#33 Edited by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (202 posts) - - Show Bio

BACK ISSUE magazine #66 can be ordered here or in the latest issue of Previews at your favorite comic book shop. It will be officially on sale at newsstands everywhere on July 17th 2013. It's the most respected comic magazine in the world today (along with Alter Ego). So go get it and experience what would really happen if Superman fought Captain Marvel!! It's going world-wide so enjoy the event!!

http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1067&zenid=5m0jeqsapbdk74tdv25r1mduu7

BTW, any non-believers can find me on Facebook and add me as a friend...I'll debate with you as much as you like...

https://www.facebook.com/john.cimino.73

I'll also be appearing at the Boston Comic Con April 20th and 21st...so come and see me with the rest of Hero Envy and the Reckless Sidekick production gang, as well as everyone else...I'll love to talk comic battles face to face...maybe you can get an advanced copy of BACK ISSUE #66 if you got spunk!

http://bostoncomiccon.com/

#34 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21: Back issue, that's the name of the magazine he's getting published. His battle's being published on July 17th

#35 Edited by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Back Issue? I've never heard of it. . . I'll have to take a look.

#36 Posted by jphulk26 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@press_oblivion: @press_oblivion:

That's interesting . . . It seems like this debate conveniently excludes Superman's full arsenal of power even when you've worked on the character.

If Superman were the kind of character to kill, Hulk would be deaded where he stood before the fight ever got started. Hulk is outclassed in every way.

@jj62 said:

Tough, but I'd have to say Hulk. Superman in the new 52 has been majorly toned down due to backlash towards the character for being "overpowered".

I'm not sure where you're getting that from, I don't think Superman has ever been more powerful than this n52 version. I think the Hulk would have a problem lifting the mass density of the Earth at all, let alone for as long as Superman did.

Your wrong, Hulk is badass in the new version of the comic. The problem and the real deciding factor is Supermans speed. None of his other powers apart from Strength speed and flight even affect the Hulk. Freeze breath and lazer vision are not going to be affective. Now here´s where the difficulty arises, Hulk has taken on characters with Supes strength and even speed, and he´s stood a good chance. He once did some shit like pull something out of a wormhole or something to that affect. He really really powerful on strength levels. Supes on the other hand fell to a Doomsday who does not have his speed, just immense strength. Now you may argue the point Doomsday is stronger, but, and now has powers way beyond Hulk; but Doomsday at the time had Hulks powers and pretty much level of intelligence, Hulk on the other hand went toe to toe with Sentry. Scientifically in our worlds laws of physics Superman should win this, but in the comic universe those laws are stretched by miles, meaning somehow, don´t ask me how, people who move near the speed of light can still be caught. Maybe its Hulks hightened reflexes, but he can do and has done. If Hulk catches Supes, especially after he´s enraged him, by not being able to catch him, Supes may well lose.

Most likely a Supes win, but not definite.

#37 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (4693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: For the batman vs hulk fight theres simply no words to describe that, its so ridiculous and obviously doesnt give hulk his accurate power levels. Just like the superman/ spiderman crossover where venom was either beating superman or giving him a hard time( i never actually read it, ive just seen a few scans about it) when superman shouldn't have trouble against venom. Both crossovers make both characters look way weaker than they actually are which is why crossovers should never count i agree that using them is a terrible idea. the only way to judge a fight between characters from different companies is feats.

I also agree why superman would win, hulk only has super strength and if he cant hit superman theres nothing he can do about it. Supes on the other hand can fly around hulk really fast and use his other powers and his fists to hit hulk while hulk can't do anything about it. even if hulk is equal to superman in strength/durability or even surpasses superman, it wont help him cause he wont be able to touch super. you said it best, pitting a brick against a flying, superfast brick does have an obvious outcome.

As for the idiotic responses the only thing we can hope for is that they are trolling hard, or more likely they are that dumb. Im not sure what else to say cause any crossover is non canon and there are stories purposely published to be non canon. sometimes words cant describe the amount of stupidity thats why pictures are necessary.

the facepalm is worthy, but i think ill have to go quadruple facepalm!

Or the this facepalm!

and thanks for the magazine info.

#38 Posted by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

Your wrong,

Perhaps. I had forgotten about his fight with Sentry at the end of World War Hulk and they did make Sentry impossibly powerful. Power of a million suns or something absurd like that?

But there are those who feel that Wolverine can take the Hulk. If that is to be believed, then how can the Hulk possibly stand a chance against Superman.

I do think that Superman's speed is the deciding factor if all strength is equal. If it holds true that Superman is barely as fast as the Flash then how could even the immense power of the Hulk take that level of pummeling? Literally kilotons of pressure delivered billions of times, multiplied by the velocity of near light speed, in a fraction of a second. Hulk paté before the bell finishes ringing.

That said, I think that Superman is very overpowered in his latest incarnation. I also think that the Hulk was made to be too powerful in the World War Hulk event. Hulk never should have stood against the power of Blackbolt let alone having a stalemate with Sentry at the end of the series. I understand that he was raging harder than he ever had before but there have to be limits applied to characters like these otherwise it makes more down to earth face offs less legitimate.

#39 Edited by WaveMotionCannon (4671 posts) - - Show Bio

#6 Edited by guttridgeb (3858 posts) - 7 days, 13 hours ago - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone said:

@guttridgeb said:

You can't use non-canon fights as evidence in something like this. In one of the crossovers, Hulk was beaten by Batman when he was kicked in the chest. They're not accurate depictions of power levels.

Batman kicked Hulk to make him inhale a gas. Why would he be unable to use a crossover in his own blog-post on a different site?

A kick to Hulk's chest from a human would not have made him inhale. And I'm saying he can't use it as evidence because its inaccurate and not canon.

Not to mention its the dumbest sh!t I've ever seen in my life ,WTF?!??

#40 Edited by jphulk26 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@press_oblivion:

@press_oblivion said:

@jphulk26 said:

Your wrong,

Perhaps. I had forgotten about his fight with Sentry at the end of World War Hulk and they did make Sentry impossibly powerful. Power of a million suns or something absurd like that?

But there are those who feel that Wolverine can take the Hulk. If that is to be believed, then how can the Hulk possibly stand a chance against Superman.

I do think that Superman's speed is the deciding factor if all strength is equal. If it holds true that Superman is barely as fast as the Flash then how could even the immense power of the Hulk take that level of pummeling? Literally kilotons of pressure delivered billions of times, multiplied by the velocity of near light speed, in a fraction of a second. Hulk paté before the bell finishes ringing.

That said, I think that Superman is very overpowered in his latest incarnation. I also think that the Hulk was made to be too powerful in the World War Hulk event. Hulk never should have stood against the power of Blackbolt let alone having a stalemate with Sentry at the end of the series. I understand that he was raging harder than he ever had before but there have to be limits applied to characters like these otherwise it makes more down to earth face offs less legitimate.

I don´t get how Hulk was overpowered in either match, Hulks power is he gets strogenr the angrier he gets. Hulk is not overpowered the way superman is by his fanboy writers. Hulks strength and power being that immense makes sense. why? cause his power is his weakness. He has no control over; even though most of the time the beast in him desires to do good, cause Banner is still somewhere in there, ultimately Hulk is still out of control. That is why even though given his power there is still always a huge weakness to exploit. That to me is not overpowered.

Superman on the other hand as much as I love the dude, is seriously just made overpowered by his fanboys, just to prove he´d win any fight. Sometimes even inspite of his creators or the creators of other characters will. I mean WTF is wrong with WW being as strong as him, but now for some reason he´s stronger than her. Never the intention of the golden age wondy or superman. But fine, well at least Batman and WW are smarter than him. Oh wait a second, no to that again, now a days he´s a super genius. OK well at least there´s a limit to his power and he can be defeated eventually. OH no now the yellow son actually charges his cells constantly regenerating them. OK got it this time, at least there are better fighters than him, say Shazaam, Wondy, Bats. Oh no no, wrong again, now he was trained for two thousand years in fighting skills. God damn, at least magic now hurts him as well, nope, apparently according to numerous incarnations, even Captain Marvel can´t kick his ass.

So yeah when it comes down to it Superman can beat any one, but thats cause his fanboy writers, just cheat all the time amping his power more and more. In the new injustice game his freeze breath kills Captain Marvel? what? Then what happens is they realise wait a second this MF can´t be hurt, and people hate him, even though he´s one of the greatest characters in history. we need to slow down and amp up his vulnerability again. What happens then, we actually get some good stories.

So who wins, in a fight with Superman at his proper level, and Hulk at his, probably Supes, but Hulk has a very good chance. or it could be stalemate like Doomsday vs supes.

With fanboy supes, who juggles planets, no one beats him, not even silver surfer or galaticus or dr. manhatten. No one.

Oh and anyone saying wolverine can beat hulk is deluded way beyond belief. Wolverine fanboyism is like Batman, oh with enough prep time. Even worse in a way cause wolverine´s a brawler. Even Batman could take wolverine. most overrated character of all time in my opinion. He couldn´t hold the jock straps of characters like Batman, Hulk, Spiderman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Dr. Manhatten, Rorschach, The Comedian. Even most of the x-men are more interesting than him.

Look at the great tragic characters of comics, Batman parents killed, Hulk forever turned into an uncontrollable monster, Superman from a destroyed planet where his birth parents died... The list goes on, so wtf is wolverine so upset about, some scientist covered his bones in ademantium, making him almost invunerable and a badass booooohooooo woah is me. I feel a Hamlet dialogue coming on. Such a weak character, I have no idea why he´s so big.

#41 Posted by turoksonofstone (13194 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

Man, crossovers don't mean jack. Realistically, if Batman kicked Hulk, all of Batman's bones would break on contact. If Batman kicks his leg breaks...

Youre write up is very misinformed, crossovers arent canon. They mean nothing, and they inaccurate.

Speaking of crossovers, one crossover: Hulk punches Superman all day and nothing happens, jump ahead a few years Hulk knocks Superman into space. Inaccurate, inconsistent and unusable for your argument. If you're going to accept one crossover to suit your purpose, then you must accept them all and therefore: Venom kicks the crap out of Superman.

Anyways, the hard thing about Hulk and Superman is that their strength/power levels have been so inconsistent to properly gauge. It really depends on the version...

Original versions:

Original Hulk vs Original Superman.

Original Superman couldn't fly and could barely lift a car...original Hulk was grey and was around the 50-ton level. Original Hulk wipes the floor with original Superman.

Most powerful versions:

Worldbreaker Hulk vs Pre-Crisis Superman

Superman destroys.

Current versions:

Indestructible Hulk vs new52 Superman.

Tough, but I'd have to say Hulk. Superman in the new 52 has been majorly toned down due to backlash towards the character for being "overpowered". While Hulk has only been made far more powerful than he used to..,and I think Hulk wins by a hair.

Most iconic/traditional versions:

Traditional Hulk vs traditional Superman.

I'd have to say Superman just by a hair, first off his freeze breath wouldn't do anything because Hulk can just break free and Hulk withstood heat vision quite simile to Superman's it was twice as hot as the sun so heat vision wouldn't work. At the end of the day Supes would have go physical, now realistically speaking I'd say Superman's strength is around the same as an enraged Hulk strength. Their blows would deal the same amount of damage, since Superman can strike faster he would most likely.

But the write up was ridiculous.

Wrong. Judge Dredd/Batman was/is cannon for Dredd. It is a crossover and is cannon therefore your argument is Invalid.

#42 Posted by turoksonofstone (13194 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@norrinboltagonprime21: Back issue, that's the name of the magazine he's getting published. His battle's being published on July 17th

Back Issue? I've never heard of it. . . I'll have to take a look.

BACK ISSUE magazine #66 can be ordered here or in the latest issue of Previews at your favorite comic book shop. It will be officially on sale at newsstands everywhere on July 17th 2013. It's the most respected comic magazine in the world today (along with Alter Ego). So go get it and experience what would really happen if Superman fought Captain Marvel!! It's going world-wide so enjoy the event!!

It makes so much sense when I see that 'comic experts' here on the Vine have never heard of these magazines. lol. Very few seem to actually know what they are talking about at all.

#43 Edited by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio
@jphulk26 said:

I don´t get how Hulk was overpowered in either match, Hulks power is he gets strogenr the angrier he gets.

Yes, I know what the Hulk's power is. Yet to what end?

It's not just the power, it's about writing all of the character's involved with respect to what has come before. Black Bolt's lore up to that point was that everyone feared even his whisper, which is devastating enough to level mountains. While it was in character for the Hulk to want to hear Black Bolt scream it's not practical that, at any power level, he could withstand Black Bolt's voice. The fact that this takes place on the moon and sound doesn't carry in space may be a factor here but Hulk was speaking so this has to be dismissed. Black Bolt is also one of the most physically powerful characters in the Marvel U and is a character that should not be trifled with yet the Hulk just walks right through him. This is a disservice to Black Bolt as he's made out to be a chump. Better writing would have made this an event in which the Hulk still would have won but by the very thinnest of margins with flesh, sinew and bone seared from his body. This would have served the story in exactly the same way but would have also shown Black Bolt to be the nearly indomitable force that he had always been written as in the past and the Hulk raged out just enough to face obliteration and survive. Instead, Pak just makes it out to be a walk in the park, Hulk might as well have been stepping on grass and Black Bolt looks like a complete twat. Sounds like the fan boy writing you mentioned for Superman.

When Hulk faced off against the Sentry in this story, it was for the second time. Sentry served the Hulk the ass woopin' of his life the first time they came to fists. But in their next encounter it's an an equal match from the beginning . . . a better writer would have seen the pinnacle moment here to put the Hulk rage on display, showing him defeating impossible odds after an incredible beat down. What do we get? an anticlimactic slug-fest the likes of which we could have seen from any one of his other foes.

While I love the Hulk and I love to see the Hulk win, there just isn't sufficient justification for scenes like this. I did enjoy the Planet Hulk and World War Hulk story lines for what they're worth but he never met a real life threatening challenge, he just walked through everything and becomes an over rated character like Wolverine and Batman. There's no excitement if there's no challenge. That's why the Peter David era of the Hulk was so great, because he always found new ways to challenge the power.

These examples are tantamount to Superman killing Captain Marvel with Freeze breath. Where's the epic, climactic event in these ideas?

While I haven't read Superman/Doomsday in a long long time, I don't remember Superman using his speed to the fullest.

Anyway, Superman for the win and not by a narrow margin. If these two face off Hulk is deaded before he can blink. Hulk never gets a chance to rage out to overpower Superman, he may never get to see Superman coming. I just don't see the fight here. There is almost nothing Superman can't overcome with the advantage of his speed.

#44 Edited by Press Oblivion (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

It makes so much sense when I see that 'comic experts' here on the Vine have never heard of these magazines. lol. Very few seem to actually know what they are talking about at all.

That sounds like a jab.Certainly not the best method to obtain new readers.

I've never heard of your periodical and I have never expressed that I was a comic book expert. I have an opinion and I'm expressing that opinion here on a topic that I have some interest in. Since you have nothing to offer here but hype to an obscure publication with no valid credentials or recognition I can't begin to guess weather or not you actually know what you're talking about . . . at all. But if I were to consider the quality of your publication by your last statement . . . .

#45 Posted by jphulk26 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@press_oblivion:

i really don´t get your reverence for Blackbolt, and second, once again Hulk has withstood incredible impacts and has fought people as fast as Superman and beat them. Put both things together and Hulk has a chance.

Atleast admit this. If somehow, just somehow Hulk catches Supes when fully enraged. And just keeps hitting him so he can´t take advantage of his speed. What then?

#46 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: I'm sorry but how is Hulk going to catch a person who can move at hypersonic+ speeds and possesses nanosecond reaction times in addition to being as strong and durable as the Hulk? Pitting a brick against a flying, superfast, laser eye shooting brick has a pretty obvious outcome. The odds are so stacked against the Hulk it isn't funny. Before you think I'm picking another fight with you, I'm simply correcting a common misconception about the Hulk vs Superman fight, namely "If Hulk catches Superman in an enraged state, it's all over." Truth is, Hulk would need to be exceptionally strong to have a chance of beating Supes as even in his Worldbreaker state, that wouldn't be enough to KO Superman given that he's survived planet busting attacks before. Plus it'd be like an elephant trying to swat a superfast, superstrong fly or bird should Hulk get that strong. Once Superman utilises his speed and speed blitzing, it's all over for the Hulk.

And for someone who supposedly likes Superman, you aren't that appreciative of his power level that when it's written well, it can make for an entertaining read. Superman is supposed to be one of the most powerful beings in the DCU. There are still plenty of people who can beat him even with all those powers and abilities you mentioned

#47 Posted by jphulk26 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

@lvenger said:

@jphulk26: I'm sorry but how is Hulk going to catch a person who can move at hypersonic+ speeds and possesses nanosecond reaction times in addition to being as strong and durable as the Hulk? Pitting a brick against a flying, superfast, laser eye shooting brick has a pretty obvious outcome. The odds are so stacked against the Hulk it isn't funny. Before you think I'm picking another fight with you, I'm simply correcting a common misconception about the Hulk vs Superman fight, namely "If Hulk catches Superman in an enraged state, it's all over." Truth is, Hulk would need to be exceptionally strong to have a chance of beating Supes as even in his Worldbreaker state, that wouldn't be enough to KO Superman given that he's survived planet busting attacks before. Plus it'd be like an elephant trying to swat a superfast, superstrong fly or bird should Hulk get that strong. Once Superman utilises his speed and speed blitzing, it's all over for the Hulk.

And for someone who supposedly likes Superman, you aren't that appreciative of his power level that when it's written well, it can make for an entertaining read. Superman is supposed to be one of the most powerful beings in the DCU. There are still plenty of people who can beat him even with all those powers and abilities you mentioned

I was never picking a fight with you. I would like a peaceful resolution if possible, if you read the rest of my posts on "freedom of speech" post. You will see that I merely meant by trolling/teasing. I didn´t mean anything harsher than that.

As for the more important question: superman vs hulk.

As i´ve said prior the laws of a comic universe are much stranger than ours. And according to that universe Supermans speed does not actually increase his mass significantly enough that his punches at said speed take on the proportion they should do. If it were the case then Flash and Superman, and anything that can move at near light speed, would not just destroy the whole world if they punched that fast, but also a good portion of the solar system. It would be like 100 billion nuclear bombs. So the speeds that you are talking about would be lethal to Superman as well as Hulk.

His strength is also not possible. Nothing as small as Superman could actually move a planet, it could only go through a planet. So again, Superman strength obviouslyt doesn´t work by the laws of our universe.

Since he and Flash often punch people at said speeds and the destruction is minimal, I can only presume that in that world mass does not increase proportionally to ones speed and neither does energy. I.e Superman punch at say supersonic speeds are weaker than they would be in our world.

This means, as we´ve seen with Superman Vs Doomsday in the comic worlds laws of physics, that Superman rarely relies on blitzing opponents of Hulk like strength and durability cause it won´t do the damage Supes fans think it will.

Plenty have survived blitz attacks and it takes Hulk one Thunder Slap in the right direction to distract superman enough, or just one enraged smash to the ground where everything around collapses to the ground, as if a nuclear bomb just hit the city, killing everyone around in the process. I mean that is seriously how mad Hulk can get if your not careful. You fustrate him by moving speeds where he can´t hit you, your not going to knock him out, you´re more likely to piss him off so he hits something that will cause mass destruction all around.

1.This is a guy that has bent adimantium alloy like its nothing.

2.Bench pressed mountains.

3.Taken full on blasts from Galaticus

4.Pulled objects from out of a god damn wormhole. (easily more impressive than pushing even a whole planet)

5.Shrugged off the collective strength of Namor and Silver Surfer

6. He´s smashed an astroid the size of earth (so there goes your planet moving superman theory)

7. Dude´s survived a nova blast by the human torch and even eaten Galactus, gaining the power cosmic.

8. hulk has torn wolverine in half. Admoantium and all.

9.Even worse for your case, he destroyed Gladiator. actually withstanding his eyebeam stronger than the centre of the sun. It didn´t even phase him.

Must I go on. I would go as far as to say it is quite obvious, Hulk is stronger, more durable, and has better stamina than Supes. here´s what really happens if they fight. The whole planet would be destroyed, before either guy falls.

#48 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (202 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@norrinboltagonprime21: Back issue, that's the name of the magazine he's getting published. His battle's being published on July 17th

@press_oblivion said:

Back Issue? I've never heard of it. . . I'll have to take a look.

BACK ISSUE magazine #66 can be ordered here or in the latest issue of Previews at your favorite comic book shop. It will be officially on sale at newsstands everywhere on July 17th 2013. It's the most respected comic magazine in the world today (along with Alter Ego). So go get it and experience what would really happen if Superman fought Captain Marvel!! It's going world-wide so enjoy the event!!

It makes so much sense when I see that 'comic experts' here on the Vine have never heard of these magazines. lol. Very few seem to actually know what they are talking about at all.

The brilliance of this post makes you a "winner" in my book buddy. Spoken with complete truth...

#49 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26 said:

As i´ve said prior the laws of a comic universe are much stranger than ours. And according to that universe Supermans speed does not actually increase his mass significantly enough that his punches at said speed take on the proportion they should do. If it were the case then Flash and Superman, and anything that can move at near light speed, would not just destroy the whole world if they punched that fast, but also a good portion of the solar system. It would be like 100 billion nuclear bombs. So the speeds that you are talking about would be lethal to Superman as well as Hulk.

His strength is also not possible. Nothing as small as Superman could actually move a planet, it could only go through a planet. So again, Superman strength obviouslyt doesn´t work by the laws of our universe.

The apparent damage you're talking about is obscure and very dubious. Superman fights at hypersonic combat speed at least anyway. He can't fight at light speeds which cause the damage you're suggesting. So your point falls down very easily there. Superman can travel at FTL speeds, not fight at them. As for the strength, it's possible there's a mental faculty involved in that. Superman possibly extends his microscopic aura of indestructability onto the objects he's moving which is why buildings or ships don't crumble with the force he's moving them at.

@jphulk26 said:

Since he and Flash often punch people at said speeds and the destruction is minimal, I can only presume that in that world mass does not increase proportionally to ones speed and neither does energy. I.e Superman punch at say supersonic speeds are weaker than they would be in our world.

This means, as we´ve seen with Superman Vs Doomsday in the comic worlds laws of physics, that Superman rarely relies on blitzing opponents of Hulk like strength and durability cause it won´t do the damage Supes fans think it will.

Flash's problem is solved by the Speed Force, a plot device which means speedsters can move at FTL speeds without causing the massive damage they normally would from moving at such speeds. And again you're very, very wrong on the speed blitzing point. Take it from someone who's been on the battle forums for 2 years, your ludicrous point about Superman's speed blitzing not doing the damage you say it would is plain BS. I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself but trust me when Superman can still pack a punch when speed blitzing. He's defeated Imperiex probes, Ultraman who is an evil version of Superman, Mongul, another brick like the Hulk and more. When he utilises his speed blitzing in a proper battle without plot in the way, Superman will decimate the Hulk. Trust me on this, I've been to plenty of Hulk vs Superman threads and seen the best arguments. Nothing in your argument is a game changer.

@jphulk26 said:

@lvenger:

Plenty have survived blitz attacks and it takes Hulk one Thunder Slap in the right direction to distract superman enough, or just one enraged smash to the ground where everything around collapses to the ground, as if a nuclear bomb just hit the city, killing everyone around in the process. I mean that is seriously how mad Hulk can get if your not careful. You fustrate him by moving speeds where he can´t hit you, your not going to knock him out, you´re more likely to piss him off so he hits something that will cause mass destruction all around.

1.This is a guy that has bent adimantium alloy like its nothing.

2.Bench pressed mountains.

3.Taken full on blasts from Galaticus

4.Pulled objects from out of a god damn wormhole. (easily more impressive than pushing even a whole planet)

5.Shrugged off the collective strength of Namor and Silver Surfer

6. He´s smashed an astroid the size of earth (so there goes your planet moving superman theory)

7. Dude´s survived a nova blast by the human torch and even eaten Galactus, gaining the power cosmic.

8. hulk has torn wolverine in half. Admoantium and all.

9.Even worse for your case, he destroyed Gladiator. actually withstanding his eyebeam stronger than the centre of the sun. It didn´t even phase him.

Must I go on. I would go as far as to say it is quite obvious, Hulk is stronger, more durable, and has better stamina than Supes. here´s what really happens if they fight. The whole planet would be destroyed, before either guy falls.

(Sigh) Yet more spamming of Hulk feats. They don't mean diddly squat against a guy who can hit harder and faster than Hulk can. It's laughable that you bring up the Gladiator case since that was full of PIS. Something at Hulk's disposal in the battle enabled him to stop Gladiator whose eyebeams were actually hurting him beforehand. Do try and read the context of an issue before trying to make a point since it just undermines your credibility. And the asteroid was a PIS feat too. Massive massive PIS. Grey version of the Hulk never showed the ability to do that before. And go to here to see what Superman is capable of

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/toptom/blog/pre-52-superman-capability-thread/84991/

All in all, there's nothing new that I haven't seen before, no point I can't undermine. So just give up. Even though I please in undermining your ridiculous points, there's nothing you can say that I won't be able to counter. So just give up before I show you up even more. And there are debaters who'd grind you into toast on this topic who are better than me so if you can't outdebate me, you won't have a chance against them. Ah it feels good to undermine yet another misguided Hulk fan. Especially you.

#50 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@mego_stretch_hulk: The stupidity of your post and your pathetic analysis makes you all the more the fool on here. Trust me on that.