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#1 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio



What do you think?

I'd say two things as an immediate post viewing opinion:

1) He honestly gave Batman WAY too much credit. There is no scenario without AMAZING levels of tampering that Batman stands any chance at all.

2) He got off topic several times. I think most of his sub-headings were important, but he went off on irrelevant tangents multiple times.

#2 Edited by UltimateSMfan (1418 posts) - - Show Bio

I Love this guy!!!!! I Love this guy!!!! *SUBSCRIBED*

gonna tweet this to geoff johns and jim lee!! n im totally votin for supes

this guy is so right on the money its not even Funny!!

#3 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

- Batman has canon contingency plans that have been shown to be able to netrualize Clark.

- Therefore, it's possible for him to win and that's a fact.

- With that being said, i don't really care for some guy's opinion and i'll probably listen to it later, when it's not 5:29 AM.

#4 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

- Batman has canon contingency plans that have been shown to be able to netrualize Clark. Contingency plans that were not executed by Batman himself but by an organization much larger than just Batman.

- Therefore, it's possible for him to win and that's yet to be proven in canon.

Fixed! :P

#5 Posted by ComicStooge (13042 posts) - - Show Bio

That was an awesome video.

#6 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250 said:

- Batman has canon contingency plans that have been shown to be able to netrualize Clark. Contingency plans that were not executed by Batman himself but by an organization much larger than just Batman.

- Therefore, it's possible for him to win and that's yet to be proven in canon.

Fixed! :P

- It's a fact sir, it's been done twice. Hush, and JLA:TOB.

- His plan worked in both instances, and that is a win for him.

#7 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1418 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: didnt u watch the video? TOB is one thing but he was nowhere near beating superman in Hush, he barely stunned him, n clark was holding back,fighting the mind control n then right before gettin crushed by a truck bats fake threatened lois's life...in this instance were talkin about bats bein able to put supes down,not Survive him for a couple of minutes.

#8 Posted by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

Good point. Superman is better known, but Batman is more popular. I voted Batman too =P ... because I wanted to pick the winning side.

From what I've seen, Batman and Superman fights, involve both not trying to kill each other.

@deaditegonzo:

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/citizenbane/blog/superman-vs-batman/79268/

A comicvine poster did a similar breakdown. This gets used in debates a lot.

#9 Posted by Z3RO180 (6587 posts) - - Show Bio

Just for the recorded the jeff lobe story hush the kryptonite ring doesn't bring supes to his Knesset it just give bats a bit of an edge it even says in the book that the ring doesn't really give bats that much of an advantage .

#10 Edited by shieldzeal (67 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

I think anyone with any sense knows who would/should win, but this was more about looking at Angry Joe's analysis. Most "personalities" dont really know any comic book info.

#12 Posted by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo:

If you look at the video, I don't think anyone from DC was giving a serious argument for Batman. They had a lot of fun with this. But they know it is popularity.

#13 Posted by lightsout (1830 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad said:

@thejman250 said:

- Batman has canon contingency plans that have been shown to be able to netrualize Clark. Contingency plans that were not executed by Batman himself but by an organization much larger than just Batman.

- Therefore, it's possible for him to win and that's yet to be proven in canon.

Fixed! :P

- It's a fact sir, it's been done twice. Hush, and JLA:TOB.

- His plan worked in both instances, and that is a win for him.

1. Tower of Babel plans was not executed by Batman. Yes, it was his plans but it was modified to be more lethal, so no, it wasn't Batman winning over Superman. And as I said, it was implemented by an organization much larger and more capable than Batman. The success of the plans if Batman were to execute them is yet to be proven.

2. Hush. When did he win? Using Kryptonite to no avail? Or dropping off Lois from a building snapping Superman out of Ivy's control? Cause the former is just BS and the latter was not a win against Superman. It was a win against Ivy. And if that was a real fight, Superman wouldn't have been defeated there. Save Lois then continue to beat on a K-ring wearing Bats.... So no.

#15 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

@deaditegonzo:

If you look at the video, I don't think anyone from DC was giving a serious argument for Batman. They had a lot of fun with this. But they know it is popularity.

I love how Stan Lee became a Grammar Nazi and owned the argument! Haha!

#16 Edited by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: They don't call him Stan "The Man" Lee for nothing. ;)

#17 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21932 posts) - - Show Bio

The closest batman versus superman fights are these:

TDKR, batman had a bunch of prep and oliver queen to help. He still didn't even win. Also this was a weak alternate universe superman.

Smallville season 11 issue 6, batman had prep. He built a special suit with a red sun radiation bat light. And kryptonite batarangs. He got superman to bleed but supes still won. Bruce got away with everyone in his body having hair line fractures.

Yeah even with prep supes still wins

#18 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, im surprised with how bad DC wanks Batman, that Jim Lee said Superman would win. Jim Lee said it, its settle forever lol.

Superman has fought SUPER VILLAINS (>Normal Human) on/ in fields of Kryptonite. He boxed Superboy PRIME after flying THROUGH a Red Sun. His weaknesses are merely things he's more vulnerable to, but not Superman "Power off" switches as Angry Joe called it. Red Sun radiation and Kryptonite are the component of a good plan, THEY WILL NOT WORK IF THEY ARE YOUR ENTIRE PLAN. This is why Lex Luthor looks so much smarter and like an infinitely better tactician than Batman, and why he shows so much greater success against Superman, because his plans never consist of "Put on Knite ring, punch Superman."

#19 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: didnt u watch the video? TOB is one thing but he was nowhere near beating superman in Hush, he barely stunned him, n clark was holding back,fighting the mind control n then right before gettin crushed by a truck bats fake threatened lois's life...in this instance were talkin about bats bein able to put supes down,not Survive him for a couple of minutes.

- So basically, you're determining what a "win" is for batman? Tell me, who are you to tell me what "we're" talking about? "Batman v.s. Superman" is definitely not clearly defined.

- Tell me, where is the universal rule that a "win" in comic books must come in a head to head fight, and not simply being the victor in a conflict? Oh, it's not written anywhere? Ok.

- As far as i'm concerned, he wins when his plan works. However, i don't know why you think Bruce would fight clark head on, but you're apparently using that as the only way Batman can win. Is this correct or did you mean something else?

- I don't know why you think some guy's opinion would make canon facts false.

@thejman250 said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@thejman250 said:

- Batman has canon contingency plans that have been shown to be able to netrualize Clark. Contingency plans that were not executed by Batman himself but by an organization much larger than just Batman.

- Therefore, it's possible for him to win and that's yet to be proven in canon.

Fixed! :P

- It's a fact sir, it's been done twice. Hush, and JLA:TOB.

- His plan worked in both instances, and that is a win for him.

1. Tower of Babel plans was not executed by Batman. Yes, it was his plans but it was modified to be more lethal, so no, it wasn't Batman winning over Superman. And as I said, it was implemented by an organization much larger and more capable than Batman. The success of the plans if Batman were to execute them is yet to be proven.

2. Hush. When did he win? Using Kryptonite to no avail? Or dropping off Lois from a building snapping Superman out of Ivy's control? Cause the former is just BS and the latter was not a win against Superman. It was a win against Ivy. And if that was a real fight, Superman wouldn't have been defeated there. Save Lois then continue to beat on a K-ring wearing Bats.... So no.

- Please tell me how the plans for Clark were modified? I'm waiting.

So no

- it's as if you think your opinion is a fact.

- Oh, so Batman spends his infamous "prep time" making plans he cannot use, execute, or implement is that correct? Wait, let me get this straight: you're saying that he spent time preparing plans in case a dire situation came up and that he relied on them without knowing if he could even use them? That is the most idiotic thing i've ever heard.

- Instead of reiterating myself further, i'll just post this here.

@citizenbane

JLA #44

The infamous Tower of Babel incident, where Ra's al Ghul steals Batman's contingency plans for bringing down the JLA and employs them against the various members. Turns out Batman's plan for taking down a rogue Superman was a specially engineered form of red kryptonite that wreaked havoc with Superman's ability to metabolize sunlight.

End result: This is probably the only canon incident that could be used to claim any kind of win for Batman over Superman. And it's not even a direct encounter. A lot of people claim that since Ra's could easily pull this off, Batman should also be able to. Couple of points regarding that:

  • Ra's has resources that dwarf Batman's. In The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul he told Tim Drake that comparing the Wayne fortune to his own wealth would be akin to comparing a drop of water to the ocean or something along those lines. He also has an army at his beck and call that he can deploy to achieve his desired effect. It would be much easier for Ra's to do something like this than it would be for Batman.
  • Batman is a member of the League, and thus under constant scrutiny from the people he's plotting against. Ra's operates in the shadows, he does not have to worry about Superman finding out about what he's up to. Especially since he's not even a League villain.

I guess if you stretch a little, Batman is potentially capable of this. Very well, advantage Batman.

- Is this a joke?

- Your argument that Bruce couldn't use his own plans is quite pathetic(in my opinion). Let me elaborate on this.

- Are you seriously going to try to say that Bruce couldn't use his own plans, because Ra's (according to him) has more resources than Bruce?

- Lets look at this for a moment. People always bring up Bruce's infamous "prep time", so i'll delve in to that.

- So are you going to attempt to tell me, or even imply, that Bruce spends his "prep time" preparing plans that he can't actually implement or use? Again, are you telling me that he prepares contingency plans to use in certain situations, that he can't actually use? Let me break this down further. Your attempting to imply that Bruce would spend his time creating a plan for a certain scenario that he couldn't actually use or implement. That is on of the most idiotic things i have ever heard regarding this subject.

- Do you seriously think that Bruce would have made the plan if he didn't have the resources to implement it? This idea defeats the purpose of his famous "prep time". Moreover, you insult Bruce's intellect by suggesting that he would make plans and expect to implement them without knowing if he had the required money or resources. I'll take that even further you insult common sense by suggesting that one would make a plan and rely on it knowing that he/she did not have the ability to actually use it. This is equivalent to you planning to throw your son a birthday party at Chuckie Cheeses (spelling?) knowing full well that it will cost 5 grand, and that you only have $800 USD in your name.

-I suppose that you think that one of Bruce's contingency plans would consist of Clark whilst running at the speed of light. Even though Bruce knows that he wouldn't be able to use that plan (regardless of if it would work or not), it's a viable plan for him to have with your logic.

- It seems as though you want this topic to be so one sided that you would resort to pulling some ridiculous argument out of your rear, even though you know that Batman had the advantage in said book. It's almost as if you couldn't simply let Bruce have a canonical advantage without attempting to discredit it with some form of argument no matter how illogical.

- The point of this is to show you that you don't actually have a valid argument against JLA: TOB, and that you come off as someone who is just trying to say whatever he can against Batman on the matter.

- If you disagree, feel free to explain why it's logical to think that Bruce would spend his "prep time" preparing plans to use in certain situations, while knowing full well that they are unusable.

- The plans were proven to work sir. The only thing he didn't do was implement them. Additionally, i think Batman would know how to use his own plans better than someone else.

it wasn't Batman winning over Superman

- I like the way you determine if it wasn't Batman winning over superman for the entire comic book universe. Tell me, who made you the divine decider of what counts a a "win" in comic books?

- Tell me, where is the universal rule that a "win" in comic books must come in a head to head fight, and not simply being the victor in a conflict? Oh, it's not written anywhere? Ok.

- The last time i checked, the word "win" was subjective for most if not all of it's definitions.

- Hush was a win against Clark as his plan worked. That's how it is as far as i'm concerned.

- Oh, and JLA:TOB was "bs"? That sounds like your opinion.

- As far as i'm concerned, Bruce won. You don't like the fact that Batman has plans that have been proven to take down superman, or neutralize him? Cry me a river.

#20 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Edited by Supermansito (197 posts) - - Show Bio

very good post

.

#22 Edited by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: A

ssuming that the Dark Knight Returns, where Oliver and nuclear bomb are as responsible for the win as Batman is, or Batman Hush, where Batman himself confessed if Clark tried at all it woudnt be a contest and he'd be squished into the cement (not to mention he lost the actual confrontation, breaking his own fist just by punching Superman, and still needed Catwoman just to pull off the plan he did have), or Tower of Babel, where somebody else actually executed the plan and wasnt a battle of any sort, WERE victories for Batman, what bearing do they have on an actual 1 v 1 fight that is being discussed here?

Seriously, this is a 1 v 1 fight, nobody else can help Batman here, it is presumed that Superman is not holding back and is actually trying (something that has NEVER happened in a Batman v Superman fight canon or not), and Batman cant just claim a moral victory. "Oh, I made you bleed with help from Green Arrow, a Nuclear Bomb, and a City's worth of power, im teh winner", "Oh, I broke your mind control im teh winner", "Oh, a team of guys, without fighting you at all initiated one of my plans, im teh winner." None of that has anything to do with a fight. The Injustice Battle Arena is just that, a battle arena. Sure, Batman can prep, and use his gadgets, he can even have Kryptonite for all I care, but he still has to actually FACE Superman, and in that situation, Batman always, ALWAYS, Loses.

Its like I said before, Batman could not win against Superman without the writer making the situation as biased as possible for Batman. Make Metropolis Kryptonite, fill Lois with Kryptonite, turn the Sun red, and spot Batman a Kryptonite rocket launcher, and sure, he could possibly win. I say possibly, because in Action Comics Mxy arc, Superman was under a Red Sun, hit by a HUGE VARIETY of Kryptonite (most colours), AND WAS still able to hold his own against Super Doom, who is a lot tougher than Batman.

#23 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: A

ssuming that the Dark Knight Returns, where Oliver and nuclear bomb are as responsible for the win as Batman is, or Batman Hush, where Batman himself confessed if Clark tried at all it woudnt be a contest and he'd be squished into the cement (not to mention he lost the actual confrontation, breaking his own fist just by punching Superman, and still needed Catwoman just to pull off the plan he did have), or Tower of Babel, where somebody else actually executed the plan and wasnt a battle of any sort, WERE victories for Batman, what bearing do they have on an actual 1 v 1 fight that is being discussed here?

Seriously, this is a 1 v 1 fight, nobody else can help Batman here, it is presumed that Superman is not holding back and is actually trying (something that has NEVER happened in a Batman v Superman fight canon or not), and Batman cant just claim a moral victory. "Oh, I made you bleed with help from Green Arrow, a Nuclear Bomb, and a City's worth of power, im teh winner", "Oh, I broke your mind control im teh winner", "Oh, a team of guys, without fighting you at all initiated one of my plans, im teh winner." None of that has anything to do with a fight. The Injustice Battle Arena is just that, a battle arena. Sure, Batman can prep, and use his gadgets, he can even have Kryptonite for all I care, but he still has to actually FACE Superman, and in that situation, Batman always, ALWAYS, Loses.

Its like I said before, Batman could not win against Superman without the writer making the situation as biased as possible for Batman. Make Metropolis Kryptonite, fill Lois with Kryptonite, turn the Sun red, and spot Batman a Kryptonite rocket launcher, and sure, he could possibly win. I say possibly, because in Action Comics Mxy arc, Superman was under a Red Sun, hit by a HUGE VARIETY of Kryptonite (most colours), AND WAS still able to hold his own against Super Doom, who is a lot tougher than Batman.

ssuming that the Dark Knight Returns, where Oliver and nuclear bomb are as responsible for the win as Batman is, or Batman Hush, where Batman himself confessed if Clark tried at all it woudnt be a contest and he'd be squished into the cement (not to mention he lost the actual confrontation, breaking his own fist just by punching Superman, and still needed Catwoman just to pull off the plan he did have), or Tower of Babel, where somebody else actually executed the plan and wasnt a battle of any sort, WERE victories for Batman, what bearing do they have on an actual 1 v 1 fight that is being discussed here?

- First of all, i'm not sure why you're bringing up non canon material at all.

- He faced superman in Hush, and he won. You were saying? Oh, you were about to pull your opinion out of your ass about him not "winning" if someone else was a part of his plan or some other nonsense. Because catwoman wasn't a part of his plan, and he expected to knock Clark out with a small kryptonite ring. Oh wait, try again.

- Oh, and are you trying to imply that Batman couldn't use his own plans? Do i need to quote myself again?

- You didn't specify that it was a "1 v 1" fight in your OP. Feel free to continue crying because your favorite superhero can (and has) lose(lost) to Batman in a conflict.

What do you think?

I'd say two things as an immediate post viewing opinion:

1) He honestly gave Batman WAY too much credit. There is no scenario without AMAZING levels of tampering that Batman stands any chance at all.

2) He got off topic several times. I think most of his sub-headings were important, but he went off on irrelevant tangents multiple times.

- No no specification of what type of conflict at all in your OP or title, duly noted.

- Additionally, "Batman v.s. Superman" is not necessarily a 1vs1 fight and sImply because you want it to be a " 1 v 1" doesn't mean that it is one.

- Oh, and you determine what is and isn't a battle for the rest of the comic book community sir? Oh wait, you don't. Surprise, surprise.

Seriously, this is a 1 v 1 fight, nobody else can help Batman here, it is presumed that Superman is not holding back and is actually trying (something that has NEVER happened in a Batman v Superman fight canon or not), and Batman cant just claim a moral victory. "Oh, I made you bleed with help from Green Arrow, a Nuclear Bomb, and a City's worth of power, im teh winner", "Oh, I broke your mind control im teh winner", "Oh, a team of guys, without fighting you at all initiated one of my plans, im teh winner." None of that has anything to do with a fight. The Injustice Battle Arena is just that, a battle arena. Sure, Batman can prep, and use his gadgets, he can even have Kryptonite for all I care, but he still has to actually FACE Superman, and in that situation, Batman always, ALWAYS, Loses.

- If you want to speak about "1 v 1" fights specifically, you should probably mention it in your OP or Title instead of pulling crap out of your ass when i bring canon facts that proves that Batman can win in a conflict with Superman.

- The funny thing is that Bruce didn't lose in JLA:TOB, Hush, or even the non canon TDKR that you seem so keen on mentioning as it apparently angered you with your apparent love of superman. Boo hoo, do you need some milk?

- You don't determine what "Batman vs Superman" means, or what Batman can claim, or what does and doesn't have to do with a fight for the comic book community. That's all your opinion, and not a fact.

- Oh and please tell me why Batman would fight head on with superman without a plan? Here's some common sense for you: he wouldn't. Thus, you're basically engineering a scenario where Batman has no choice but to lose simply because you're probably a Superman lover and a Batman hater.

- I suppose that you would fight someone who has moved the planet before head on when you don't have any powers? That would probably make a lot of sense to someone like you.

Its like I said before, Batman could not win against Superman without the writer making the situation as biased as possible for Batman. Make Metropolis Kryptonite, fill Lois with Kryptonite, turn the Sun red, and spot Batman a Kryptonite rocket launcher, and sure, he could possibly win. I say possibly, because in Action Comics Mxy arc, Superman was under a Red Sun, hit by a HUGE VARIETY of Kryptonite (most colours), AND WAS still able to hold his own against Super Doom, who is a lot tougher than Batman.

- Also, Superman could not win most, if not all, of his battles if the writers had not given him his powers. We can do this all day.

- Additionally, he could never have blown away galaxies, moved at or beyond the speed of light in space, or moved the planet without the writer making him as strong and biased as possible. We can do this all day as well.

- It's a fact that Batman can win in a conflict, and there's canon evidence to prove it. Get over it or continue to cry about it.

The Injustice Battle Arena is just that, a battle arena

- The injustice Battle Arena is a popularity contest and nothing more you buffoon.

#24 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

Sigh.... Same old Batwanking that just danced around the holes in their arguments....

I don't want to exert any more effort in arguing with Batwankers. Just read this blog and see how the Batnuthugging arguments fail.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/citizenbane/blog/superman-vs-batman/79268/

Everything that needs to be said has been said.

- Because his and your "Superwanking" opinions are correct as if opinions could actually be true or false. Oh wait, try again.

- I implore to read my response to that drivel however, i doubt you will as it will probably make too much sense for you.

#25 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: This entire post is about the Injustice Battle Arena, which is literally Superman and Batman fighting in an arena. I didnt know I was speaking to a child (though most people as devoted to Batman as you clearly are fall into the under 12 set) and had to point out the obvious.

Once again, I can come up with scenarios where Batman can win, a writer has the ability to tamper with the situation as much as they want, but in a 1 v 1 battle, Batman doesnt stand a chance and never has in canon OR non-canon, ever.

I give Catwoman the win in Hush, she deserves the credit more than Batman who only has a broken hand to show for it. Have fun writing another whiny rant in response.

#26 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

- As if opinions could actually be true or false. Oh wait, try again.

Coming from you... Oh the irony! "It is possible so it must be fact!" Haha! I'm amused. Really I am.

- I implore to read my response to that drivel however, i doubt you will as it will probably make too much sense for you.

On the contrary. Sense only comes with logic. Sorry, but no.

Look, go ahead and do your thing with wherever world you took your logic from. In the end, nobody would really listen to you here. You refuse to accept the circumstances against your own to elevate your own arguments to nigh convincing levels but nobody is fooled. Actual feats matter. Not probabilities due to "similar" events that are circumstantially different. I'm done replying to you. It's pointless arguing with fanboys.

#27 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo said:

@thejman250:

This entire post is about the Injustice Battle Arena, which is literally Superman and Batman fighting in an arena. I didnt know I was speaking to a child (though most people as devoted to Batman as you clearly are fall into the under 12 set) and had to point out the obvious.

Once again, I can come up with scenarios where Batman can win, a writer has the ability to tamper with the situation as much as they want, but in a 1 v 1 battle, Batman doesnt stand a chance and never has in canon OR non-canon, ever.

I give Catwoman the win in Hush, she deserves the credit more than Batman who only has a broken hand to show for it. Have fun writing another whiny rant in response.

- Which is a popularity contest. It doesn't matter who would win in a 1vs1 battle in the injustice arena you ignorant child.

- Devoted to Batan? You just continue to profess your ignorance in large amounts. Because i'm defending Batman with facts against idiotic fanboys, i must be a Batman fanboy. Typical idiotic fanboy logic.

- I don't care what scenarios you can come up with, they exist in canon continuity. Get over it.

- Because batman losing in a head on battle to someone who can move the planet isn't obvious. You're clearly an idiot as you think you're actually making some astonishing discovery. There's a reason Bruce's contingency plans for Clark wasn't simply to give him a couple of good whacks to the face you "genius".

- You only announce your idiocy to the community by suggesting that Bruce would willingly fight a head on Battle with such a person. It's as though you think Bruce is stupid, or you actually are an idiot yourself.

- However, a "1 v 1" doesn't mean that Bruce necessarily has to face Clark regardless. Only in a scenario where Bruce has to fight Clark as though this were Mortal Kombat would he most likely loose. However, you saying that he "doesnt stand a chance" is only your opinion. You don't determine if it's impossible for a writer to write such a story if they wish to. Try again, you ignorant fanboy.

- You can give catwoman whatever you like, i couldn't care less about the opinion of an incredibly ignorant child such as yourself.

#28 Edited by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: So you basically admitted that Superman would win? Thanks thats what I was getting at the whole time.

#30 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: Haha! Yeah dig your own grave... You make me laugh so hard. Keep em coming!

#32 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: Haha! Yeah dig your own grave... You make me laugh so hard. Keep em coming!

- Sure fanboy.

#33 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: No, im pretty sure a couple posts back you said, "Batman can win if he is allowed to hide in his Batcave playing with himself while others fight Superman for him." Pretty sure I saw you say it up there.

If you're wondering why nobody is responding to you seriously anymore, its because youve gone off the deep end. There is no speaking to a person who gets so worked up over a debate. This is also how everyone knows youre a BatFanboy, because youve taken the discussion personally. Why not cool off a bit, and come back and talk about your opinion logically and rationally?

#34 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo:You realize you're talking to a kid whose best arguments are ad hominems, right? Ummm.. So why bother?

#35 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo:You realize you're talking to a kid whose best arguments are ad hominems, right? Ummm.. So why bother?

Maybe it would improve all of our experiences if he calmed down and had logical debate with us. Nobody's mind would be changed, but there could be an exchange of ideas. Insulting him back or hiding from my own thread definitely arent good solutions.

#36 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: Good point. I'll leave it to you then. Cause I'm definitely not patient enough with these kind of guys.

#37 Edited by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad:@deaditegonzo:

I'm assuming that @citizenbane meant that Batman might not have had the resources to build the kryptonite. Basically, Batman wouldn't be able to assess if the plan is feasible until he worked out, in some detail, what it would take to produce the kryptonite.

The plan, itself, seemed to consist along the lines of "expose Superman to kryptonite", which shouldn't take the worlds greatest detective or richest villian.

Batman having the data stored does not mean it was an active plan. It could have been shelved (Batman deduced he would not be able to implement it based on resources), in progress (getting resources...slowly), or ready to go (Kryptonite locked away in a safe place). My main question is, did it show who actually produced the rock?

#38 Edited by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

@ssejllenrad:@deaditegonzo:

I'm assuming that @citizenbane meant that Batman might not have had the resources to build the kryptonite. Basically, Batman wouldn't be able to assess if the plan is feasible until he worked out, in some detail, what it would take to produce the kryptonite.

The plan, itself, seemed to consist of "expose Superman to kryptonite", which shouldn't take the worlds greatest detective.

Batman having the data stored does not mean it was an active plan. It could have been shelved, in progress (getting resources), or ready to go. My main question is, did it show who actually produced the rock.

The other thing, for me at least, is that the Tower of Babel plan DID NOT incapacitate Clark. If anything, it increased his destructive capabilities. That said, because it was a moral's on Superman, he just tried to contain his heightened energy and avoid hurting anyone. If it was Clark v Bruce, and he wasnt holding back (like always), Clark could like "scorched Earth" the whole city, if not "World Breaker" the planet based on what J'onn said.

Frankly, even when we are shown Bruce hurting Kal, or holding out against Kal, we are always told that one reason is because Superman is holding back, and that is not supposed to be the case here.

#39 Edited by Saren (25694 posts) - - Show Bio

Just flag the troll and move on.

The fight in Hush isn't a win for Batman unless we're determined to give Batman a degree of latitude so extreme that mere survival qualifies as a win. Accordingly, anyone who survives a fight against Superman has defeated Superman, never mind that if Catwoman hadn't shown up, Bruce would have been splattered across the asphalt. He couldn't even punch Clark any more because, in his own words, several bones in his arm would have shattered if he tried.

As for that point about the TOB incident I made, it's true that Ra's resources exceed Bruce's by miles, but given that Bruce's superpower is that he's rich enough to do anything, he could probably manufacture the kryptonite. The biggest detail about the TOB plans coming to fruition is that Ra's had an army at his beck and call to make sure the plans went down flawlessly and simultaneously ---- Bruce does not. Ra's also does not have to worry about someone in the League figuring out that he's about to attack since he's not a villain they usually focus on. If Bruce were to prepare and execute the TOB plans over a period of time, he'd have to factor in variables like an alien who can see through walls and listen to every sound on Earth, another alien who can read minds, an Amazon who can force people to tell the truth if she gets suspicious, and so on, all people who spend a lot of time around him, unlike Ra's. It throws up a lot of possibilities for a spanner in the works.

Sometimes I wish I'd never made that Superman vs Batman blog. Most of the comments on it are so inane they make me wonder if all those ominous warnings that are doled out about how the education system is failing children deserve a greater emphasis. My inbox gets spammed with PM's from angry fanboys who address the points in the most half-arsed manner possible, and I refuse to reply because seriously I do not care, and they just continue the correspondence with taunts about how I am obviously too frightened of their eloquent brilliance to respond. It's more or less inevitable that I will eventually ask a moderator to lock the thread once the comments reach a peak of idiocy.

I stand by my original statement nonetheless: Batman would need an extreme amount of plot on his side to stand a chance of beating Superman.

Moderator
#40 Posted by Tacos_Kickass (844 posts) - - Show Bio

Its pretty obvious that Superman wins, anyone that thinks otherwise might be a little... special.

#41 Edited by consolemaster001 (5654 posts) - - Show Bio

Great points ! AJ is epic.

#42 Edited by shieldzeal (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: I was hoping you would chime in. But I would ask that you not equate the rise fanboism with the failures of the educational system, not that I would not indulge you. But seriously, a lot of this boils down to people who cannot accept a valid argument against their position without taking personal offense. Seriously, I am not in the least bit offended by the fact that Silver Surfer or Dark Phoenix can beat Superman. Such things should not impact your enjoyment of a character because they are pointless.

#43 Edited by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo said:

@drgnx said:

@ssejllenrad:@deaditegonzo:

I'm assuming that @citizenbane meant that Batman might not have had the resources to build the kryptonite. Basically, Batman wouldn't be able to assess if the plan is feasible until he worked out, in some detail, what it would take to produce the kryptonite.

The plan, itself, seemed to consist of "expose Superman to kryptonite", which shouldn't take the worlds greatest detective.

Batman having the data stored does not mean it was an active plan. It could have been shelved, in progress (getting resources), or ready to go. My main question is, did it show who actually produced the rock.

The other thing, for me at least, is that the Tower of Babel plan DID NOT incapacitate Clark. If anything, it increased his destructive capabilities. That said, because it was a moral's on Superman, he just tried to contain his heightened energy and avoid hurting anyone. If it was Clark v Bruce, and he wasnt holding back (like always), Clark could like "scorched Earth" the whole city, if not "World Breaker" the planet based on what J'onn said.

Frankly, even when we are shown Bruce hurting Kal, or holding out against Kal, we are always told that one reason is because Superman is holding back, and that is not supposed to be the case here.

That is correct too, I thought of that but he did seem in pain, but he has worked though it in the past. I don't see why couldn't blast a human with heat vision in that state for a win, even if he blows up afterwards (making it a tie or "after win" death). Technically, he could kill or KO from a distance before the person even moved too (Super breath FTW). His real issue there is that he is invulnerable and it goes to his head. This is aside from morals.

Stuff like this I agree with in concept, it is a valid way as acknowledged. but as pointed out, not an actual accomplished feat since we don't transfer those.

#44 Edited by lorex (955 posts) - - Show Bio

Joe speaks the truth. All thiings being equal Batman should almost never be able to defeat Superman.

#45 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Just for fun! Nyahahahahahaha!

#46 Edited by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad:

Reminds me of the time I turned Aizen into the Crowned Clown :)

Remember: Right to left :)

(He is using Bankai while turning into a hollow)

#47 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: D.Gray Man + Bleach? Badass!

#48 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Heh, as we all know, the Injustice Battle Arena simply consists of fan voting. There won't be any logic tossed in. It's all about favouritism.

Moderator
#49 Posted by SPM1M (808 posts) - - Show Bio

Just flag the troll and move on.

The fight in Hush isn't a win for Batman unless we're determined to give Batman a degree of latitude so extreme that mere survival qualifies as a win. Accordingly, anyone who survives a fight against Superman has defeated Superman, never mind that if Catwoman hadn't shown up, Bruce would have been splattered across the asphalt. He couldn't even punch Clark any more because, in his own words, several bones in his arm would have shattered if he tried.

As for that point about the TOB incident I made, it's true that Ra's resources exceed Bruce's by miles, but given that Bruce's superpower is that he's rich enough to do anything, he could probably manufacture the kryptonite. The biggest detail about the TOB plans coming to fruition is that Ra's had an army at his beck and call to make sure the plans went down flawlessly and simultaneously ---- Bruce does not. Ra's also does not have to worry about someone in the League figuring out that he's about to attack since he's not a villain they usually focus on. If Bruce were to prepare and execute the TOB plans over a period of time, he'd have to factor in variables like an alien who can see through walls and listen to every sound on Earth, another alien who can read minds, an Amazon who can force people to tell the truth if she gets suspicious, and so on, all people who spend a lot of time around him, unlike Ra's. It throws up a lot of possibilities for a spanner in the works.

Sometimes I wish I'd never made that Superman vs Batman blog. Most of the comments on it are so inane they make me wonder if all those ominous warnings that are doled out about how the education system is failing children deserve a greater emphasis. My inbox gets spammed with PM's from angry fanboys who address the points in the most half-arsed manner possible, and I refuse to reply because seriously I do not care, and they just continue the correspondence with taunts about how I am obviously too frightened of their eloquent brilliance to respond. It's more or less inevitable that I will eventually ask a moderator to lock the thread once the comments reach a peak of idiocy.

I stand by my original statement nonetheless: Batman would need an extreme amount of plot on his side to stand a chance of beating Superman.

I read ur blog and its fantastic i completely agree although you left out a pair of other encounters, mainly the one in superman/batman torment where darkseid takes control of supes and supes nearly kills batman...... again... in apokolips, where the wife of orion comes to bruce's rescue. ur blog was great, off course such a great blog would have to come with the ignorant batfans who even with all the evidence ur blog holds use denial. You shouldnt regret a great piece, like u said just flag the trolls and move on lol good night guy keep up the great work

#50 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20308 posts) - - Show Bio

"Batman will win because...he's BATMAN." - said no one named Angry Joe