Comic Book Question of the Week RESULTS: Will You Miss Superior Spider-Man?

I will miss Otto, and now that Peter's back, I'm going to drop Spider-man now. I don't like how Dan Slott writes Peter. I just bought the Spider-man by Roger Stern Omnibus, so that will give me my fix for awhile! I enjoyed this last issue until I read the backup. Mary Jane was one of my favorite characters, and now she's turned to this? Come on, you put up with so much. You put up with Venom and Kraven replacing Peter as Spider-man, now you're complaining about this? A big part of reading Spider-man is the relationships he has, but if I know they won't go there, I don't want to invest my emotions in it.

@manneffest:

I don't apologize for my comment.

I wish you could see what that says about you.

If people didn't like the arc AND they gave it a chance, then by all means, comment on how the writing was bad and that Otto was not a good or compelling character.

You falsely assume story can make up for concept or character for everyone. That a bad idea, concept isn't bad writing in itself for them. You also generalize the those people saying the same complaints.

However, if you are "whining" about how Peter was killed, replaced by Ock, and then said person hating the idea of SpOck without giving him the chance he deserves, then you should not speak.

A fictional character doesn't actually deserve anything. If people want Peter and not Ock thats it end of story. It's not whining. People want what they want.. You have no say in it or their expressing of it.

Just because Peter is back in Spider-Man's booties, doesn't mean we need to continue to hate Otto for being different from what Spidey originally was!

Peter beginning back in the booties has nothing to do with the hate for Otto nor would it change their oppinion. Otto being in them at all is enough for them it's also not what originally was. You were not reading a story of Spider_man. You were reading a story of Doc Ock. Wearing the mask and going by a different name doesn't change that. It's not the mask that makes the man it's the man that makes the mask.

If you have a different opinion, well, it's a free country and we all have different taste in comics, but if you insist on prattling about how you hated Ock because it was a change… then please, stop whining.

SO you get to choose what people get to have an opinion on and express. You don't see the ridiculousness of that?

I'm not accusing anybody of this, I just want other people to respect the fact that Superior Spider-Man was enjoyed by a lot of people and that the vocal minority is just that, a minority.

So you want people to respect people was enjoyed but you wont respect that replacing Peter with Ock wasn't an acceptable idea to them. You don't see the ridiculousness of that?

Peter Parker is back now everyone, let's all just come together and be happy about it and stop hating on a run we may or may not have liked.

Why would Peter being back change anyone's opinion of what happened or mean they should stop talking about it no matter what their opinion is?

It's over now, let's all get excited and pumped at what Amazing Spider-Man has in store for us and let's just have a big group hug. Okay? Okay!

When the the point of the thread is about peoples opinions. Thats the time to talk about it. We can get along if we all respect that people have different opinions and what matters to them are also different. Saying people whining because they think differently isn't going to get your hugs.

EDIT: I edited that last response because I misread.

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Nothing you said changes the point I made.

They "whined" because they didn't like it and expressed it.

You "whined" because they feel differently on things than you and expressed it.

If you want to drop it fine. I've made my point.

"I'm never going back; the past is in the past! Let it go, let it go."

Otto will be missed.

@manneffest: Concept and story should always trump character.

That's your opinion. People could disagree. They also could disagree thats whats going on with Spider-Man.

Look at Aquaman, a lackluster character brought to life through fantastic stories.

Aquaman is still Aquaman. Also there are many fans who would disagree of you assessment that it was lack luster.

See where I'm going with this. Opinions.

I never liked the character of Aquaman, but I picked up Geoff Johns' run and loved it!

And yet look at that. They didn't have to put Black Manta in his body to do that. Heck they didn't actually change very much but a bit of moving things around. Still it comes back to opinion if you like it or not.

Wanted to try She-Hulk in All-New Marvel NOW because I liked the character and the story didn't do it for me.

Liking something just for the character is where being a fanboy comes in… No one wants to be a fanboy.

There you go again. making assumptions. Like people were not liking the stories that already were there. Also there we go again giving insults because something doesn't matter to you that it does to them. I don't see how you're not seeing this.

Okay, a fictional character may not deserve anything, but that doesn't mean it's right to bash a character that is not the character you want. This goes back to story beats character.

Actually it does give you a right to voice your opinion. What gives the person who does like a something any more right to voice their opinion than one who does? I remember because they don't agree with yours and you get to decide what matters.

What is wrong with something being different?

WHat's wrong with people wanting what they thought was perfectly great? You're the one calling out people for whining for wanting what they want. You remember. They were happy then they were not but you seem to have a problem with them having an opinion about it.

Nobody said you can't like the Doc Ock thing but don't bash others by calling them whiners for having a different opinion and expressing it.

The same story gets boring after awhile, this was something unlike anything before in #700 issues prior, a fresh and TEMPORARY spin on Spider-Man.

YOU were bored YOU were not getting anything new from this. Are you seeing where this is going. OPINIONS.

It also wasn't a temporary spin on SPider-Man. THat was a spin on Doc Ock. Again the man makes the mask the mask doesn't make the man.

We deserved something more than the old Parker luck. The story of Superior Spider-Man IS (or in this case was) affecting Peter, it's not like he was gone. He was always there, maybe not in the flesh (or Force Ghost), but in the threads that bound the story together. Otto always compared himself to Peter, even the reader always compared him to Peter.

So you get to decide what has value, what everyone took from those stories, and what you think they deserve. You know what I think. I think people should be able to like what they like, want what they want and express that without someone telling them what they think they should only being able to speak when others think it's ok.

What will happen if Peter ever dies for good? Will the Parker Purests leave the book, or try to enjoy this new person under the mantel of Spider-Man?

See right there you're setting it up to be one thing. You ever think many comic fans are of the opinion something like that should never come up. That it's part of what draw them to comics and this type of medium. The timelessness of it that continue from before they were there will continue to be after them especially in mainstream. Again you see what I'm talking about opinions and what matters to some people. SOme people could also be of the opinion that if that's not what you're into then you should look for alternatives.

They did it with the Ultimates Universe, and look how fantastic Miles Morales turned out!

Right because an alternative universe is the same as the main universe and lets not mention we still had 616 peter. Lets not mention that there are still people who HATE the idea of what they did there and still complain. Even if the rules for the ult universe were set up differently. OH but they don't count to you do they.

People hating things for the fact that it is a change is, excuse me, but it is stupid. But, I guess you are right, we all have the right to our stupid and biased opinions, just keep those to yourself. The old saying my comic book retailer tells me, "Don't knock it, until you try it." applies here.

Sorry if you think it's just about change then you're not getting that. Also if the only thing stupid and biased here is what your spouting out. That is something that should be kept to yourself. You don't get to tell people what matters in comics or if they get to say. In fact if you can't handle different opinions on the medium then maybe you should just stay away from a site that intends for people to voice that. In fact just stay away from people in general. wow the more you talk the more twisted it gets.

This goes back to what I sated above, if they TRIED IT, and did not like it, then back it up with your solid opinion. What I do not want to hear (because I have heard this so many times), "Oh, I didn't like it because Peter wasn't Spider-Man, that's why I didn't pick it up, but I'm sure it was stupid." That's a rather narcissistic way of thinking.

No it doesn't because I already covered that. You just don't think it's solid because certain things don't matter to YOU. There wasn't actually anything wrong to that statement until you got to the sure it was stupid. Those are two very different things. If they said "Oh, I didn't like it because Peter wasn't Spider-Man, that's why I didn't pick it up,i think it's stupid." It suggests different reasons for it being stupid. One being story the other concept. To say people are not allowed to their opinions, get to voice them because you don't like them is the only thing narcissistic here. I'm flabbergasted you're not seeing how terrible what you keep saying is here.

Hey everyone! Only manniffest gets to decide what matters and gets expressed. You're not allowed value anything unless it agree's with how he rates things or it's stupid.

Peter being back should fix all this, because the past is the past, and we got a whole new interesting story ahead for Peter thanks to Otto and Dan Slott.

Peter being back doesn't fix anything because there is nothing to fix about their opinions. The story may be in the past but it doesn't mean they are going to suddenly like it. It's also not in the past because it's now in his history. History matters to many comic fans or why bother having a continuous connected universe at all. Not to mention that things that happened will continued to be felt. Like Batman inc and all that brought. It's over but many of the things that came about are still ongoing.

Also,If they want to cause more discourse between others, then they can keep talking. I was attempting to agree to disagree. End the conversation.

And calling people whiners and fanboys, trying to silence people from expressing their opinions doesn't cause discourse? People are only allowed to talk when they like something. I dunno if you don't want discourse how about respecting people have different likes and opinions. SO next time when somebody says something you will be ok with it. WHy should the people who are not ok with something be ok with the opinions of people who are and not the other way around? If you're saying it's ok for one too get upset over the other then it should go both ways. Again how about we all just not get upset over other peoples likes and dislikes. oh but that's not good enough for you is it?

My position we should all be allowed to like, dislike and express opinions on a form of entertainment. People should be mature enough that people have different opinions.

Your position comes down to people are whiners and fanboys and they should keep their mouths shut because things matter to them that don't matter to me.

You're not seeing this?

I'm an optimist, and compromiser, so I wanted to bring everyone together, because this discourse over Superior has been going on for far too long.

You're not a compromiser. Compromisers do not disvalue what matters to others. Compromisers don't think others should not speak about what matters and what they like when it differs from them. You don't bring everyone together when you shut them down. Are you kidding me.

Bring them together in accepting others opinions. There is always going to be a different likes and dislikes but it's not going to happen if you can't accept someone who differs from you. I notice you don't call out the people who've been trashing peter coming back. That's right because Peter and the old same old bores you.

This entire conversation goes back to one simple quote I stated, "Don't knock it, until you try it." I fully believe that. I believe people do not need to speak on things they are not well-versed in. I respect you took the time to defend your opinion, However this does not change what I believe. So as Frozen put it quite nicely, I'm going to "Let it Go".

This entire conversation goes back you devaluing other peoples opinions and what matters to them. See you think I'm defending just one side. I'm not. I'm actually defending both sides and their opinions. You're the one being divisive and going after people what differ from you.

Also let it go. Bro it would have been better if you never started it.

Some of the reasons people do not like it, are not valid in my opinion.

Keyword opinion doesn't mean it's right, that you should go after them because you don't value their reasons. It's a form of entertainment people are aloud to like/dislike for whatever reason. Currently I've been disagreeing with WW fans on the changes to they made to her. I don't begrudge them for not liking WW now. I begrudge them when they make claims that are not true. What happened to bringing people together or is it only for those that value the same things? You expect people to come together with someone who just disregards things that matter to them?

Because, I have read it. I loved the Amazing Spider-Man, I loved Peter, I hated he died, I was angry at Dan Slott, I thought I would never like Otto. Then I read the first few issues. And I loved it. What I learned from that is, don't hate something just because it changes, give it a try before you pass judgment As long as they do the characters and worlds justice, then by all means, give me a story I will either love or hate. Change in comics, while it is difficult, can be good.

Now maybe you could learn that those are not the only things that matter to people. THat there are other things in consideration for people. WHat you learned was right for YOU. It mattered for you. You realize not everyone is the same as you right? That people are not going to like some of the changes you do? THat reading the story doesn't effect the reasons they don't like something because it's more than just this one simple story. THat it's a concept that just plain doesn't appeal to them. THere are people who just plain doen't like time travel stories. It doesn't matter what the stories are. They just don't like them. There are people that don't like realism. Doesn't matter the story. THere are people that just don't like fantasy, sci fi, romance or when they do different types with concepts in those genre. It doesn't matter here are many other things to consider than just story when people like something.

I can tell we have somewhat separate world-views, so I end with tip of the hat off in respect…

Yeah I allow people to like/dislike what they want about entertainment and think they should be allowed express it. You don't.

I have stated all I need.

You certainly have but I think that has different meaning for us.

@dernman: This is getting ridiculous, I totally want others to express their opinion. However, they SHOULD NOT say anything until they have tried it. That is what it comes down to it. Someone else may not have liked the new Aquaman when they tried it, or you could have been one of the thousands of people who love the new She-Hulk. Good for you if you like it! I tried both, cared for one, not the other. It's as simple as that. I had no right to say anything about Sh-Hulk until I read it, when I did, I can confidently say after about three issues in, it was not for me and offer a civil opinion, "I don't care for the artwork, and the direction of the story was not my cup of tea." Are you saying I have the right to bad mouth a book I never even tried and no nothing save the concept? Because that's just wrong. I want others to express their opinions on Superior, however if it is accusations against or for the book such as, "Good riddance Otto!" or "Gah, I hate that Peter is coming back." Then give us a bit more than that. What viners like PunyParker and O_Apocalypse_O sated, offering two sides to this, they did a great job on that. I agree Peter IS Spider-Man, and that I will miss SpOck. But it is those small complaints about the run, with no context and factual backing, that make me shake my head. Because it looks like whining. Both sides are guilty of this. That is my entire argument, I only wanted people to to just accept that it has happened. And hey, if you value character above story then fine. But Dan Slott knows what he is doing with the character, he has written him for a long time.

EDIT: Also stupid was a strong word to use and I apologize, instead I should say they shouldn't have uninformed opinions.

I am one that will miss SpOck. My biggest complaint about the series is it felt like they shorted Otto of a dignified end by making it feel extremely rushed and by making it seem like he was ready to give up at the first sign of adversity (though there are years worth of Doc Ock villainy that shows differently). Personally, I think you have SpOck take out the Green Goblin and give him that Gwen Stacy moment (by Norman killing Anna Marie) and then he is shown what it really means to be a hero and the sacrifices Peter has had to make along the way and for him to decide that he is not suited for the job. Instead we get an ending that basically goes, oh no Norman Osborne hacked my robots so now I have to commit suicide!!!

I change my mind. I'm going to read the first issue and see how it goes. The reason why I was enjoying the relationship with Anna Maria and Ock, was because they were happy in their relationship. That's what I want from Peter. I don't want to see him go through more and more tragedy, or at least for awhile. That's what my problem was. I love the character, and I can't take him being a punching bag anymore.

@baneofdemon22: If Peter learns from this, and this actually changes his character and forces him to become more effective, resilient and overall smarter, then I may check out Amazing. I just don't want him to deal with the fallout for a few issues, then we go back to the same old same old Peter. I want him to keep Parker Industries and put more of an emphasize on his scientific mind and use that to battle crime, I want him to take the fight to the bad guys and prove why he "deserves" the title Superior.

@manneffest:

You're right it is ridiculous.because you still think you get to decide what is enough or what matters. If a concept is stupid to them, if a character is uninteresting to them THEY get to decide that NOT you. YOU DON"T get to decide whether THEY get to say anything about it. THAT is what it comes down too. Its not enough for you. GREAT! Doesn't mean it's not enough for THEM. It's about THEM it's not about YOU. Get over yourself and stop whining about things that matter to THEM that don't matter to YOU. That's all it comes down too. Worry about your oinions and leave others alone. Such a simple thing right? You think you can handle that?

It had it's run and was interesting at first but true Spidey fans are probably as irritated as I am as to how much Doc Ock has basically ruined Parker's life. I personally liked how his life came together after beginning to work for Horizon and becoming an Avenger, finally getting his due as a hero.

@dernman: So you believe people should judge something before they try it? Okay then. I mean yes people can, but there is no courtesy in judging a book by its cover. And you're right though, I have no power over these who believe otherwise from this simple human service. Because all this is my opinion! I was originally expressing this, because I believed people were whining about Otto. Seems a bit hypacritical if you ask me for pointing my fault out among a sea of others. I'm ending it now because I believe you should hold judgment until you give something a chance, I believe everyone should follow that rule. I stick to that. I'm holding my tongue about the "interesting" Grayson title until I have tried it. Others should too. If you don't agree with that, well oh well. If people don't want to hear my world-view then they can continue to scroll to the next comment. I thank you though for taking the time and commenting on your disagreement with me. Now if only you could have learned to be a civil debater in this conflict and not talk down to me personally, then I might have offered a good faith truce. I never once attacked you personally, and I'm sorry you cannot be comfortable with varying opinions of how the world works at large or even how I reacted when I perceived a situation that was attacking a character I love. I can only feel sympathy. I'm sorry we had to get into an argument with something so trivial. I hope that next time we cross it will not be one of hate or (even more) discourse.

@manneffest: I believe people are allowed to have their own opinions and tastes. I believe people should decide for themselves what makes something food for them. I believe they decide for themselves what those parameters are. I believe others have no say in them either liking it or them expressing it. I believe anyone who thinks otherwise should keep their trap shut, mind their own business on things they have no right or say in.

Seems a bit hypacritical if you ask me for pointing my fault out among a sea of others.

Are you kidding me? People are forming opinions on a piece of entertainment and talking about what THEY want and dislike. You're going after other people likes/dislikes and telling them them what matters about it.

People judging a piece of entertainment for themselves.

You commenting on how people judge that entertainment and telling them their opinion doesn't matter and to keep quiet.

You're telling me you don't see the difference? You're commenting on something that is only for each individual to decide. I'm defending their right. You're just moaning, trying to shut them and commenting on things you have no say in.

You're seriously equating defending peoples views on a piece of entertainment and their right express it to you going after them for it. and trying to tell them what matters? Come on man?

I'm ending it now because I believe you should hold judgment until you give something a chance, I believe everyone should follow that rule.

You don't get to decide what people judge or like. If a concept is repellent to them where no story would matter you don't get to think otherwise for them. You only get to decide for yourself that's it.

I stick to that. I'm holding my tongue about the "interesting" Grayson title until I have tried it.

If it only concerns you then fine but when you try to to decide for others that things like a concept or character can't ruin a story no matter the story thats when it becomes a problem..

Others should too. If you don't agree with that, well oh well.

If you don't like what they value in their entertainment tough shite for you because it's for them. NOT for you and you don't have a say.

If people don't want to hear my world-view then they can continue to scroll to the next comment.

You do realize this started with you not liking their view on their tastes? If you don't like that people think other things matter in their entertainment then what you think then you can can move on. Which brings us to the comparison that I made in the beginning?

Them whining about SpOck.

You whining about them.

Now if only you could have learned to be a civil debater in this conflict and not talk down to me personally, then I might have offered a good faith truce.

You do realize you've been talking down to all those you called whiners and those who had different things that matter to them?

I never once attacked you personally, and I'm sorry you cannot be comfortable with varying opinions of how the world works at large or even how I reacted when I perceived a situation that was attacking a character I love.

People's opinion on their own entertainment likes and dislikes.

People's opinion on other peoples likes/dislikes, what they get to value, and express when concerning entertainment.

People defending others tastes, their right to view and originally pointing out the comparison.

Be honest though despite the comparison what do you honestly think is worse?

I'm sorry we had to get into an argument with something so trivial. I hope that next time we cross it will not be one of hate or (even more) discourse.

I don't like getting into it either, wish it was on better terms but people trying to decide for other people what matter to them or how it affects what they like isn't right to me.

No, I will not miss Otto as Spiderman at all. My exposure to Superior Spiderman has been the Age of Ultron tie-in and the Goblin Nation story arc, and after those issues I have come to conclude that SpOck was the worst character ever and not the true Spiderman. The true Spiderman would not call someone "fool," "dolt," or "imbecile" like the jerk SpOck did. I love the true Spiderman for his kind-heartedness, compassion, humor, and deep love for those around him. As far as I'm concerned SpOck is a temporary impostor and I'm glad to see him dead forever.