On paper are Telepaths and TK mutants useless against Storm?

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Highheeledhoe

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#1  Edited By Highheeledhoe

So Storm has been show to completely block of a very strong TK mutant known as Candra with her electrical powers, putting some sort of field around herself to stop Candra dead in her tracks. Candra is a more powerful TK than Jean Grey (without Phoenix force) and has been shown to be able to turn of other mutants powers. As far as telepaths Storm has resisted and beaten used her electrical powers to stop the most powerful telepaths in the universe. She has beaten them time and time again both with her electrical powers and her indomitable will. Anyone who is able to host Eternity is truly remarkable. Judging by what Storm has been able to do would you say that TP/TK attacks against her are useless?

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marlexcabanilla

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#2  Edited By marlexcabanilla

Not really its all depends of the user

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jhazzroucher

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#3  Edited By jhazzroucher

@highheeledhoe said:

So Storm has been show to completely block of a very strong TK mutant known as Candra with her electrical powers, putting some sort of field around herself to stop Candra dead in her tracks. Candra is a more powerful TK than Jean Grey (without Phoenix force) and has been shown to be able to turn of other mutants powers. As far as telepaths Storm has resisted and beaten used her electrical powers to stop the most powerful telepaths in the universe. She has beaten them time and time again both with her electrical powers and her indomitable will. Anyone who is able to host Eternity is truly remarkable. Judging by what Storm has been able to do would you say that TP/TK attacks against her are useless?

Yes. Unless she'll be written poorly.

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marlexcabanilla

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@jhazzroucher: no jhazz tp and tk is effective to storm if her enemy are more powerful than her

and remember that storm is not immune to tp and tk

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Outside_85

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It's not useless, its just one of a number of things thatsgone a little too far when determining what powers can be used for which purpose.

I accept her will is enough to beat off a number of telepaths, but creating weather to block them? No.

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jhazzroucher

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@jhazzroucher: no jhazz tp and tk is effective to storm if her enemy are more powerful than her

and remember that storm is not immune to tp and tk

Hmmmm.... if she's emotionally disturbed, then probably.

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jhazzroucher

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It's not useless, its just one of a number of things thats gone a little too far when determining what powers can be used for which purpose.

I accept her will is enough to beat off a number of telepaths, but creating weather to block them? No.

Ok. it's not useless. Telepaths should be able to take out Storm at some point. But the question is who?

Perhaps a group of telepaths can.

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Highheeledhoe

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#8  Edited By Highheeledhoe

@outside_85: It actually makes sense because electricity scrambles TP/TK powers. TK is a force and she was able to block this force with an electrical aura which scrambled/blocked Candra's TK, I think that actually makes a lot of sense.

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Outside_85

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@highheeledhoe: I'll have to say your scans seem to be leaning more towards how TK (oddly enough) can block lightning rather than how Storms powers scrambles the psionics. (I can't see Storm's mind being under attack, nor do I see Chackra reaching for anything with her mind other than a pair of beams.)

Plus, I know there's been both Emma Frost and a pair of characters called Paradise and Purgatory that psionically tortured her (though Storm was a captive in those instances).

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storm-is-life

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it's not useless it's just that it is very hard to defeat her with those powers

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Malachi_Munroe

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#11  Edited By Malachi_Munroe

@outside_85 said:

It's not useless, its just one of a number of things thats gone a little too far when determining what powers can be used for which purpose.

I accept her will is enough to beat off a number of telepaths, but creating weather to block them? No.

thing is, she doesn't create it to block them .. her powers are always on and her brain has increased electrical activity (So does Magneto's) which aides her in resisting, recently she was even able to block her presence from Psylocke and Rachel at the same time, well .. psylocke got blocked from locating her multiple times but anyway and yes you're right she was captured probably ambushed like what emma did in XXM so i believe that she has to be prepared to deal with telepaths in order for her thingies to be effective/strong enough .. she may be resistant to the other applications of Telepathy but psybolts get the job done.(Candra doesn't have TP) and i do think storm actually Breached the field when she concentrated on the small area.

@jhazzroucher she doesn't have to be written poorly, she is highly resistant to TP and has some measures to counter TK but it depends on the user she's not supposed to be flat out immune to those powers, its a two way street.

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Outside_85

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@outside_85 said:

It's not useless, its just one of a number of things thats gone a little too far when determining what powers can be used for which purpose.

I accept her will is enough to beat off a number of telepaths, but creating weather to block them? No.

thing is, she doesn't create it to block them .. her powers are always on and her brain has increased electrical activity (So does Magneto's) which aides her in resisting, recently she was even able to block her presence from Psylocke and Rachel at the same time, well .. psylocke got blocked from locating her multiple times but anyway and yes you're right she was captured probably ambushed like what emma did in XXM so i believe that she has to be prepared to deal with telepaths in order for her thingies to be effective/strong enough .. she may be resistant to the other applications of Telepathy but psybolts get the job done.(Candra doesn't have TP) and i do think storm actually Breached the field when she concentrated on the small area.

Hmm... kinda makes sense when facing a telepath, I just wonder how her powers help her block something like telekinesis.

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Malachi_Munroe

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@outside_85: it's energy vs energy, telekinetic energy vs only god know how much different types of energy storm could manipulate. In Candra's case storm was bombarding her with kinetic energy and electrical energy, the latter being shown to have weird effects on Telekinetic energy. Besides its a two way street actually, a high enough concentration of telekinesis does mess with her powers causing them to not be "instantaneous".

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Outside_85

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#14  Edited By Outside_85

@malachi_munroe: Well that's really part of my 'issue' with TK getting blocked in this fashion, it's not just a flexible form of energy projection (even though I know Marvel likes to depict it as such in art) which would just make it similar to the power of people like Cyclops.

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This for instance is (what I consider) a good example of what TK is when used (or depicted) properly. Morrison took it a step further when Jean confronted the U-Men at the institute, making one of them vomit by moving his stomach contents upwards and some of the others crap themselves when moving that bit downwards before threatening them with pulling them apart on a molecular level.

Now I know there's no one that's really on Jean's level when it comes to these sort of things, but I am hard pressed to see how or why Storm could block a thing like that. (Likewise I do wonder how the telekinetic can block something like a lightning bolt other than 'punching' it... which means they have to be faster than lightning)

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Malachi_Munroe

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#15  Edited By Malachi_Munroe

@outside_85: good points, i don't know if storm would be able to defend against internal attacks of any kind (seeing as she was never put into a situation like that) so i'm going to assume she can't until she does it on panel, i also wonder what would happen if she channeled lightning inwards the same time it would be occuring.And i do believe Candra was a Molecular level telekinetic so my guess is that she wasn't attacking storm internally but trying to match storm in a battle of force vs force .. which didn't work out too well for her lol. i like what Jean was doing with the Motorcycle(?) but i guess they portray some telekinesis visible like Hellion's, its either that or they were trying to establish that storm could somehow see telekinetic energy.

And i agree 100% on the part about no other telekinetics being on Jean's level, she's the top dog of the game in that area.

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Mooty_Pass

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No it's not useless it's just that storm is very resistant to it. I mean she can still be taken down it will be very hard to.

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Malachi_Munroe

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#17  Edited By Malachi_Munroe

No it's not useless it's just that storm is very resistant to it. I mean she can still be taken down it will be very hard to.

Precisely.

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Outside_85

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@malachi_munroe: That is all true. In regards to seeing energy... well I put that under the header of what Omega level (or near Omega level) mutants are capable of despite whatever it is seems completely outside of the short version of their powerset. Like Jean started out as a telepath and ended up as basically a reality warper/transmuter.

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THUNDERBOLT30

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No, I don't think these abilities are useless against Storm. While she is highly resistant to powerful telepathy, has been able to counter TK energy, and scramble psionic energy she can still be defeated by these forces depending on the power and skill of the user.

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Malachi_Munroe

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#21  Edited By Malachi_Munroe
@outside_85 said:

@malachi_munroe: That is all true. In regards to seeing energy... well I put that under the header of what Omega level (or near Omega level) mutants are capable of despite whatever it is seems completely outside of the short version of their powerset. Like Jean started out as a telepath and ended up as basically a reality warper/transmuter.

interesting, i believe it's probably be due to her ability to adapt to her surroundings (not sure where the telekinetic energy fits in though lmao) so she may very well see all forms of energy (i'm not even second guessing that because she can see all the way down to electrons) but she can only manipulate those energies depending on which kind relate to her environment i.e if you put her in hyperspace that energy becomes hers to toy with. And honestly .. i've reached the point where i don't even want Omega Level storm, shes fine right now although i wouldn't mind some crazy feats.

On the Jean Grey point, i think she was always destined to become those things considering she could toy with molecules and according to Cassandra she does possess "telekinetic godhood"

@thunderbolt30 said:

No, I don't think these abilities are useless against Storm. While she is highly resistant to powerful telepathy, has been able to counter TK energy, and scramble psionic energy she can still be defeated by these forces depending on the power and skill of the user.

Like legion for example. (Though the art made it seem as if that psybolt(?) he used only brought her to her knees.

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THUNDERBOLT30

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@malachi_munroe: Right. Or Onslaught. It can depend on the power of the opponent.

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Malachi_Munroe

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@malachi_munroe: Right. Or Onslaught. It can depend on the power of the opponent.

i wonder though, if her only being on her knees while the others were KO'ed could probably be an artist Mistake or it was to set the level of her resistance.

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CheeseSticks

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Nope, Full power Cable (or Nate Grey) would wipe the floor with Storm.

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Malachi_Munroe

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Nope, Full power Cable (or Nate Grey) would wipe the floor with Storm.

the truth has been spoken.

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Highheeledhoe

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#26  Edited By Highheeledhoe

Also let say a TK was messing with Storm insides wouldn't her powers go completely crazy and full force? Wouldn't that unleash hell since her state of mind at that point would probably be in a lot of pain. I dont think everything would be fine and dandy. I'm guessing if she were that desperate she'd be also messing with the TK's insides as well. Controlling the electricity in their body? Sucking the air out of them? Shutting their brain off?

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Malachi_Munroe

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Also let say a TK was messing with Storm insides wouldn't her powers go completely crazy and full force? Wouldn't that unleash hell since her state of mind at that point would probably be in a lot of pain. I dont think everything would be fine and dandy. I'm guessing if she were that desperate she'd be also messing with the TK's insides as well. Controlling the electricity in their body? Sucking the air out of them? Shutting their brain off?

if they mess with her insides before she could establish a scrambling field, she dies and its been a long time since anything made her freak out.

as for her messing with them, 1) she's never showed messing with electricity inside someone to my knowledge BUT she threatened someone to run lightning through their insides. 2) its plausible 3) i believe she only did that against the hulk.

I also believe a blizzard took over limbo when she died so the weather may (for some strange reason) go out of control.

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marlexcabanilla

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#28  Edited By marlexcabanilla

@malachi_munroe: its not entirely strange because we know that storm mind is share with the earth so she can control the weather soo if she die its mean she lost control whats the blizzard takes over limbo

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Whoa

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#29  Edited By Whoa

She has some TP resistances, however it is not like she is immune to TP or TK attacks...

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BlackLegRaph

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@whoa said:

She has some TP resistances, however it is not like she is immune to TP or TK attacks...

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Malachi_Munroe

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@whoa said:

She has some TP resistances, however it is not like she is immune to TP or TK attacks...

Once again, the truth has been spoken.

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#32  Edited By kasya

@whoa said:

She has some TP resistances, however it is not like she is immune to TP or TK attacks...

Once again, the truth has been spoken.

yes, it has been spoken. Storm can resistant tp without even trying, and scramble tk energy. Doesn't Storm control the electrons in your body the same a telekinetic would? But imagine if Storm had molecular TK she would be up there in power wise like she already is but more up there.

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Malachi_Munroe

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@kasya: that's against probes. Storm actively resists telepathy , as her showings have demonstrated. It's like staring at a car coming towards you and you think you're going to be fine if you don't do anything i.e move.

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jhazzroucher

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My idea is that if she can shut down spaceships, that means she can take out the electricity and she should be able to apply it on mutants/humans too.

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kasya

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@kasya: that's against probes. Storm actively resists telepathy , as her showings have demonstrated. It's like staring at a car coming towards you and you think you're going to be fine if you don't do anything i.e move.

good explanation ;)

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I see it like this. Storm needs to be aware that there is a telepath around or she is about to be attacked by one, but that's the problem storm is always on the defense she is walking around with two of them(Psylocke,Rachel) And she's lived with three of them before(Prof.X,Jean,Emma) so she has been making her TP resistance stronger and stronger her brain due to her powers naturally put up strong defenses so it's really hard for a tp to get through not only that the tp user is being bombarded with other types of energy that's its hard for them to concentrate. Yes she can be taken down by TP, but storm has had years of experience with fighting off TP so it would be really really really REALLY hard for any Tp.

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Malachi_Munroe

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@stormphoenix: she actively resists applications of it if she's aware. Like how Emma took her out pre body swap. After Storm regained her bodynand fought Emma she literally shrugged off a blast.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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Magnetos and juggernaughts helmet was meant to be immune to TP guess what jean doesn't care, emmas diamond form too guess what jean don't care, storm may have good resistance but any skilled Telepath can bypass her defences

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Mooty_Pass

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Yes and No

@malachi_munroe: Exactly, but what i'm saying is she has battled this before it's nothing new to her. I see it now as second nature to her I mean she is traveling with telepaths all the time I believe NOW in the comics she's constantly always on alert and on gaurd when it comes to TP aware or not. I'm just sayin

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Roddy010

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Magnetos and juggernaughts helmet was meant to be immune to TP guess what jean doesn't care, emmas diamond form too guess what jean don't care, storm may have good resistance but any skilled Telepath can bypass her defences

Storm's resistance is not the same as Magneto or Juggs considering that all their helmets do is block psionic energy. While the hyper electricity in Storm's brain actually scrambles psionic energy (causing some telepaths severe pain).

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#41  Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

@roddy010: well said and shown. The MOST skilled psychics on earth have been significantly challenged, and even defeated, by Storm's mental defenses and strength of will.

Psylocke, Emma Frost, Shadow King, Elias Bogan w/ Rachel's powers, and Rachel herself are all examples.

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jhazzroucher

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I see it like this. Storm needs to be aware that there is a telepath around or she is about to be attacked by one, but that's the problem storm is always on the defense she is walking around with two of them(Psylocke,Rachel) And she's lived with three of them before(Prof.X,Jean,Emma) so she has been making her TP resistance stronger and stronger her brain due to her powers naturally put up strong defenses so it's really hard for a tp to get through not only that the tp user is being bombarded with other types of energy that's its hard for them to concentrate. Yes she can be taken down by TP, but storm has had years of experience with fighting off TP so it would be really really really REALLY hard for any Tp.

I think that even if she isn't aware, she is still able to break the telepathic attack.

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#43  Edited By Stormcell

Storm vs. TP/TK characters depends on circumstances and the power of the wielder. TK is actually more of a credible threat against Ororo than TP. TP is effectively a useless power against Storm if she knows she's up against a telepath. If the telepath is very powerful and manages to ambush her as she's say, taking a casual stroll through a mall, Storm can be taken down that way. However, when aware of a telepathic threat, Storm has been able to keep telepaths from being able to communicate with her TP (even when Betsy was boosted by cerebro, she could neither locate nor communicate with Storm when Storm blocked her out). She has also been able to keep telepaths out of her mind so that mindblasts were totally ineffective against her (in Uncanny 151, Emma Frost tried to kill Storm with a mindblast. Storm just shrugged it off, electrocuted her and was going to kill her until Wolverine talked her out of it. In Uncanny 277, Warskrull tried to kill Storm with a mindblast and was unsuccessful. He continually mindblasted her and freely admitted that given time, she may overcome him. So, since he was unable to overcome her mental defenses and kill her, he ordered Lilandra to chop her head off with a sword as Storm was incapacitated while trying to fight off his mind attack. Warskrull had the combined power of Xavier, Psylocke and Oracle). Since these instances, Storm's mental defenses have only gotten stronger. She can still be beaten by TP if she is caught totally unaware, though.

Storm vs. a TK depends on the strength level of the TK. If the TK is wielding the Phoenix Force and is drawing A LOT of power from the PF, then Storm can lose to a telekinetic. That said, the only telekinetic mutant who I would say could probably beat Storm without the PF is Legion. Outside of him, I have not seen any other telekinetic-wielding mutant strong enough to have an advantage over Storm in a fight without a significant boost from the PF.

I would order the top 5 telekinetics from most powerful to least like this:

1) Legion

2) Exodus

3) Stryfe/X-Man

4) Candra

5) Jean Grey

If Storm were fighting a TP/TK mix like Exodus, the smart thing for Exodus to do would be to ignore his TP powers and focus all of his concentration into his TK. The more he tries to use TP, the less concentration he has to put into his TK and Storm's defenses against TP are just too much. Storm could literally wait for him to try a TP attack so she can fry his brain by amping up the electrical field around her mind. This would instantly knock him out of the fight. She would be able to overcome his TK power, though.

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jhazzroucher

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Storm vs. TP/TK characters depends on circumstances and the power of the wielder. TK is actually more of a credible threat against Ororo than TP. TP is effectively a useless power against Storm if she knows she's up against a telepath. If the telepath is very powerful and manages to ambush her as she's say, taking a casual stroll through a mall, Storm can be taken down that way. However, when aware of a telepathic threat, Storm has been able to keep telepaths from being able to communicate with her TP (even when Betsy was boosted by cerebro, she could neither locate nor communicate with Storm when Storm blocked her out). She has also been able to keep telepaths out of her mind so that mindblasts were totally ineffective against her (in Uncanny 151, Emma Frost tried to kill Storm with a mindblast. Storm just shrugged it off, electrocuted her and was going to kill her until Wolverine talked her out of it. In Uncanny 277, Warskrull tried to kill Storm with a mindblast and was unsuccessful. He continually mindblasted her and freely admitted that given time, she may overcome him. So, since he was unable to overcome her mental defenses and kill her, he ordered Lilandra to chop her head off with a sword as Storm was incapacitated while trying to fight off his mind attack. Warskrull had the combined power of Xavier, Psylocke and Oracle). Since these instances, Storm's mental defenses have only gotten stronger. She can still be beaten by TP if she is caught totally unaware, though.

Storm vs. a TK depends on the strength level of the TK. If the TK is wielding the Phoenix Force and is drawing A LOT of power from the PF, then Storm can lose to a telekinetic. That said, the only telekinetic mutant who I would say could probably beat Storm without the PF is Legion. Outside of him, I have not seen any other telekinetic-wielding mutant strong enough to have an advantage over Storm in a fight without a significant boost from the PF.

I would order the top 5 telekinetics from most powerful to least like this:

1) Legion

2) Exodus

3) Stryfe/X-Man

4) Candra

5) Jean Grey

If Storm were fighting a TP/TK mix like Exodus, the smart thing for Exodus to do would be to ignore his TP powers and focus all of his concentration into his TK. The more he tries to use TP, the less concentration he has to put into his TK and Storm's defenses against TP are just too much. Storm could literally wait for him to try a TP attack so she can fry his brain by amping up the electrical field around her mind. This would instantly knock him out of the fight. She would be able to overcome his TK power, though.

Where do you place Shadow King?

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Stormcell

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Shadow King is a telepath, not a telekinetic. If I were ranking telepaths, I would order them like this:

Shadow King/Bogan

Legion (I may put Legion up with Shadow King, but not sure)

Emma Frost/Exodus

Stryfe (haven't seen him do much save lay the smackdown on Jean Grey)

Jean Grey (without the PF)

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Stormcell

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Also let say a TK was messing with Storm insides wouldn't her powers go completely crazy and full force? Wouldn't that unleash hell since her state of mind at that point would probably be in a lot of pain. I dont think everything would be fine and dandy. I'm guessing if she were that desperate she'd be also messing with the TK's insides as well. Controlling the electricity in their body? Sucking the air out of them? Shutting their brain off?

Storm would be able to block out internal TK assaults. A TK does not have direct access over matter (in this case, internal organs). They must access that object with their TK and control via TK. In other words, they have to project their energy inside of a person or object to manipulate its internal structure. If Storm erects a protective energy barrier around herself that blocks out TK energy (as she did against Candra), that means the TK would not be able to access her internal organs until Storm drops the electrical field or they manage to bash their way through it.

That said, Candra's TK works down to the atomic level for the record, folks!

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deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3

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Everyone and everything is useless against Storm.

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jhazzroucher

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@sprior93 said:

Everyone and everything is useless against Storm.

I agree with you. :)

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Mooty_Pass

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OK people let's get this straight. Storm is NOT by any means "Immune" to TK and TP attacks. HOWEVER regardless of how powerful the User is...it IS a BAD IDEA to use TK and TP attacks against Storm. Not ONLY does she understand the principles and laws of these abilities she's had personal experience with this. EX. (WE ALL know the Emma and Storm body switch YES? Ok the fact that Storm had to survive in another person's body AND learn how to use there powers at that Storm has gotten a huge insight to the world of Psychic powers. SO REALLY Storm KNOWS the strengths and weaknesses of TK and TP powers. NOW i'm NOT saying these attacks are worthless i'm NOT saying that Storm can not be taken down by these attacks, BUT........it's useless. SO Your in a world of hurt if you think you can knock her out with TP or TK because then she will get pissed off and we all know she hates people being in her mind.

Thanks for reading. :-)