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Posted by Lvenger (20704 posts) 1 year, 2 months ago

Poll: Is JMS' Spider-Man run really the best one? (52 votes)

Yes 38%
No 62%

I hear a lot of people saying that JMS' run is the definitive tenure on Spider-Man. Don't get me wrong, I love JMS' run and most of his stories are amazingly well written. However, despite the majority of his run being good, he was responsible or partially responsible for two of the worst Spider-Man stories in history

Remember this travesty?

Or how about this one? Granted, Quesada is the more culpable one here but JMS agreed to write this horror show! For the record, JMS is one of my favourite writers thanks to his Spider-Man and Thor runs but I'm wondering what you guys think about how good his Spider-Man run really was when you remember these two horrible stories.

#1 Posted by Billy Batson (58150 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure most consider the Ditko/Lee run as the best.

BB

#2 Posted by Lvenger (20704 posts) - - Show Bio

@billy_batson: Perhaps I should edit it to include that one. What was I thinking?

#3 Posted by Lvenger (20704 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn it I can't edit it. To all newcomers, it's supposed to say "After the Lee/Ditko or Lee/Romita Sr run, people consider JMS' run one of the best Spider-Man stories."

#4 Edited by danhimself (22624 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't enjoy a lot of JMS's run...the whole mystical animal totem stuff was ridiculous....The Other was completely unnecessary...it was kind of like he didn't know how strong Spider-man already was so he made him stronger....he wasn't responsible for the unmasking he played a large role in it....all of that stuff painted Spider-man into a corner with no way out making OMD kind of necessary...they shouldn't have gotten rid of the marriage but they really had no place else to go

#5 Posted by PunyParker (11982 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Like i said in the other topic....ONE of the best,not the best,so No.

#6 Edited by PunyParker (11982 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't enjoy a lot of JMS's run...the whole mystical animal totem stuff was ridiculous....The Other was completely unnecessary...it was kind of like he didn't know how strong Spider-man already was so he made him stronger....he wasn't responsible for the unmasking he played a large role in it....all of that stuff painted Spider-man into a corner with no way out making OMD kind of necessary...they shouldn't have gotten rid of the marriage but they really had no place else to go

Exacly.

#7 Posted by Billy Batson (58150 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5129 posts) - - Show Bio

Lee/Ditko, Lee Romita, Stern/Romita Jr, Michilinie/McFarlane are some other great runs of Spidey.

#9 Edited by Lvenger (20704 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by 8008S (506 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I'm far too biased to vote. I started reading Spidey with Straczynski's first issue, so his work pretty much went on to define how I think of the character.

#11 Posted by PunyParker (11982 posts) - - Show Bio

Dan Slott had a decent ASM run..........(hate in 3....2...1..)

#12 Posted by Lvenger (20704 posts) - - Show Bio

Dan Slott had a decent ASM run..........(hate in 3....2...1..)

No he did actually. But after Amazing, that's when things turned sour.

#13 Edited by Z3RO180 (6618 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Didn't this get locked before ?

#14 Edited by Lvenger (20704 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: I asked for that one to be locked so that this one could replace it instead. I'd rather have a poll that shows the stats.

#15 Edited by PunyParker (11982 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@punyparker said:

Dan Slott had a decent ASM run..........(hate in 3....2...1..)

No he did actually. But after Amazing, that's when things turned sour.

Yeah,i extremely liked the run.I had a good time and i didnt want him to quit the title in no way...Spider-Island was nonsense,but everything else,quite good!

#16 Posted by spider11211 (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure most consider the Ditko/Lee run as the best.

BB

Agreed!

#17 Edited by MASTER_OF_SUPRISE (715 posts) - - Show Bio

JMS is a mixed bag for me.

#18 Posted by Darkseid011 (109 posts) - - Show Bio

I like his first couple of books but then he wrote about GWEN STACY and started saying all this made up b.s. about her and Norman Osborn which is the reason why I hate jms!!!!

#19 Edited by craymond (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually I read up to interesting things about JMS.

1. Sins Past: He actually pitched a story where Gwen apparently had his kids and he never knew. I don't know about you guys I liked this idea. But editorial (Mainly Joe Quesada) hated Peter Parker having pre marital sex and being a illagitamate father. So they went with that Gwen and Goblin nonsense.

2. One More Day: Though he agreed to write the story, he actually advocated the marriage. He enjoyed writing them together. But said that ending the marriage was also an editorial decision.

#20 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

JMS's run was only good up until Ezekiel died. After that it went downhill really fast. And really, that's only if you don't hate the spider-totem idea to begin with.

#21 Posted by kcjr (335 posts) - - Show Bio

I think SM comics were terrible, and uninspired for a long time before JMS' run. His stories sparked life into SM again. However, Sins Past was horrible.

#22 Posted by heroesgold (608 posts) - - Show Bio
@kcjr said:

I think SM comics were terrible, and uninspired for a long time before JMS' run. His stories sparked life into SM again. However, Sins Past was horrible.

What!? So Green Goblin's Last Stand/The Night Gwen Stacy Died was bad? Kraven's Last Hunt was bad? Hobgoblin sagas bad? The Death Of Jean DeWolff?? Master Planner Saga? The list could go on, but I do agree that there has been bad Spider-man comics over the years.

#23 Edited by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker: slotts run was one of the main reasons i got back into marvel. from 2000 on i mainly read dc. although i never gave up daredevil which never dissappoints. but slotts run and then remenders venom got me back into marvel so when i hear ppl diss slott i say yo man read big time and then stick your foot in your mouth

#24 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I read somewhere that it was mostly editorial interference on Quesada's part that led to Sins Past and One More Day. Apparently JMS wanted to tell a different story in Sins Past, and he hated OMD so much he wanted his name off it. Least that's what I heard.

Oh well. At least this run gave us Norman Osborn's sex face, because we all just had to see that......

#25 Posted by Yellowjacketfan (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I would add Gerry Conways run as one of the best!!

#26 Posted by Yellowjacketfan (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

I read somewhere that it was mostly editorial interference on Quesada's part that led to Sins Past and One More Day. Apparently JMS wanted to tell a different story in Sins Past, and he hated OMD so much he wanted his name off it. Least that's what I heard.

Oh well. At least this run gave us Norman Osborn's sex face, because we all just had to see that......

I had read that somewhere as well

#27 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: The different story JMS wanted to tell with Sins Past was still terrible. Peter would have been the father to Gabriel and Sarah. As for One More Day, JMS's original version was far, far, FAR worse than what we got. According to Quesada:

When I was halfway through issue three of OMD, we received Joe's script for issue 4. After reading it, we (Axel, Tom and myself) all quickly realized that we had a problem -- the script we had just received was not the one we were expecting, and the events that were being set forth in that issue were going to conflict with the work that was already being done on "Brand New Day." I thought that perhaps Joe had forgotten some of the stuff discussed at the summit meetings and the subsequent e-mails and discussions that followed, but that didn't seem to be the case; this was the story he wanted to tell. In his story, Mephisto was going to change continuity from as far back as issues #96-98 from 1971. In Joe's story, Peter drops the dime on Harry, and that helps get him into rehab right away. Consequently, MJ stays with Harry, and Gwen never dies and never has her affair with Norman, etc., etc. And in the end, Peter and MJ are never married.

#28 Posted by PunyParker (11982 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker: slotts run was one of the main reasons i got back into marvel. from 2000 on i mainly read dc. although i never gave up daredevil which never dissappoints. but slotts run and then remenders venom got me back into marvel so when i hear ppl diss slott i say yo man read big time and then stick your foot in your mouth

.....and then read Superior and get it out of your mouth again...

#29 Posted by Spideysense44 (3519 posts) - - Show Bio

Slott did good on amazing

#30 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker: did u actually give superior a fair shot? if you go into without intending to hate it it is actually pretty good for a limited run which we know it will be. but if you go into anything planning on hating it you will hate it because you only focus on the negatives in the book. sure ock has done some things peter would never do but ock isnt peter

#32 Posted by PunyParker (11982 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker: did u actually give superior a fair shot?

Stop it right there.11 issues bro.It is more than a fair shot.

Everyithing is set up like that,so Ock can get his way.Even Aunt May isnt suspicious if something is,even a little,wrong with her child,accually.She knows him all his life.Not to mention MJ,who is a stupid damsel in disstress.In other words=Dum b*tch.This isntr my MJ,this isnt my Avengers(as portrayed),and of cource this isnt my Spider-Man.

#33 Edited by Squalleon (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:Selected stuff are great.

His early stories that added mysticism to spidermans origin and purpose are amazing, The Other was good.
But sins past and OMD are plain simple bad.
Also OMD was a editorial forced story that's why JMS quit the title

#34 Posted by QueenCorp15 (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

BY FAR LEE/DITKO!!!!!!!! Then maybe todd mcfarlane ....... VENOM

#35 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

Not the best, but definitely one of them.

I actually really like Slott as well, though I haven't been keeping up with Superior.

Bendis has a great Ultimate run as well. Never read a bad issue with him on Spider-Man.

#36 Posted by Baron_BJ (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: The different story JMS wanted to tell with Sins Past was still terrible. Peter would have been the father to Gabriel and Sarah. As for One More Day, JMS's original version was far, far, FAR worse than what we got. According to Quesada:

When I was halfway through issue three of OMD, we received Joe's script for issue 4. After reading it, we (Axel, Tom and myself) all quickly realized that we had a problem -- the script we had just received was not the one we were expecting, and the events that were being set forth in that issue were going to conflict with the work that was already being done on "Brand New Day." I thought that perhaps Joe had forgotten some of the stuff discussed at the summit meetings and the subsequent e-mails and discussions that followed, but that didn't seem to be the case; this was the story he wanted to tell. In his story, Mephisto was going to change continuity from as far back as issues #96-98 from 1971. In Joe's story, Peter drops the dime on Harry, and that helps get him into rehab right away. Consequently, MJ stays with Harry, and Gwen never dies and never has her affair with Norman, etc., etc. And in the end, Peter and MJ are never married.

Can we get a source on this? I'd love to read the full interview/blog or whatever it was that you pulled this from.

#37 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

oh yes. gwen boning osborn in a moment of pity. greatness!!!

#39 Edited by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

Aside from Lee and Ditko my favorite is Roger Stern and David Michelinie

#40 Posted by danatblair (12 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked how it began. It went out with more fizzle than bang. I did enjoy it. I will admit to liking JMS' work, but also not worshipping everything he does.

I like seasons 2-4 ish of b5. Some fo the rest is okay. I started reading Rising stars, but lost track of it. I thnk the idea behind grounded was interesting. I am not saying I agree with execution. I dislike Superman Earth one, with a burning passion.

Basically, JMs has his own tropes that he reuses a lot. If you like or tolerate them, you are probably more able to go along for a ride. He tends to have fated arcs, that start in the middle with a defined begining and end. He likes evils that are more ancient than ancient. also, his evils tend to be more mysterious than mysterious. walkabout are common. I could probably make a drinking game.

I don't think this makes him bad, by any means. Whedon has his own habits. Every writer I follow does. So, his recurring themes are fine, but there are stories where they feel better.

#41 Posted by BR_Havoc (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

JMS had a solid run but at the end Quesada just had to go over him and screw up everything. I mean how many people think of all the good JMS stories? When Sins Past and OMD are so infamous for being the worst Spidey stories ever.

#42 Edited by Fallschirmjager (18391 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been rereading my older Spider-Man comics recently and here are my thoughts

Despite the fact that Sins Past and OMD are bad concepts - they were excited brilliantly to be honest. If you were going to do those stories, they probably could not have been written much better. I think people often confuse the two. I mean if you were going to write OMD, how could you do it better? Peter and MJ holding each other in the Dark and then MJ ultimately making the choice, knowing Peter never could...that was brillaint execution of a terrible concept.

Moreover, the real crime of OMD was not that it happened - its what happened afterwards. We sacrificed MJ for Aunt May...and then Auny May is pretty much neglected going forward. We barely see her at all and they even marry her off to a different city so they don't have to write her.

So we lost MJ and lost Aunt May at the same time and Peter loses both of his best supporters going forward. THAT is what pissed me off.

Ironically, I think JMS writes the best Peter/MJ romance of anyone...and its kind of not close. The way he handled their reconciliation as well as their time during Civil War was beautiful. Some of the most touching moments between them are his works.

As far as other runs go...Lee/Ditko is obviously the one people will think of, and while they were great for their time - they're simply out dated for me. I've read his run and its very charming but its simply hard to get emotionally attached to it for me.

I've only read select things from the 80's and 90's (mostly stories involving Black Cat, Venom and Carnage) so I can't comment too much on any of those runs, though I wasn't exactly blown away save a few stories here and there.

And outside of a few stories, such as Kraven's First Hunt, New Ways to Die, Grim Hunt and anything with Black Cat (<3 her) - everything post OMD was pretty mediocre to be honest. I especially hated One Moment in Time where they say the reason for MJ and Peter splitting up was because she wasn't "strong enough" to bear his burden - when she was pretty much the pillar of his support prior to that. That really just pissed me off, because it basically shit on the character.

So for me...especially as he was writing the run while I was growing up, JMS is the best Spidey writer - as far as 616 is concerned anyway. BMB run on USM up to Peter's death is probably the best Spider-Man run ever as far as I'm concerned (even if its not quite the same after Bagley leaves and especially during Ultimatum, ugh). Though I don't really care for Ultimate MJ. Ultimate Gwen was way better for me personally.

#43 Posted by QueenCorp15 (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

@billy_batson: how the hell did they leave todd mcfarlane out of the writers list!!!!????!!!!

#44 Posted by MASTER_OF_SUPRISE (715 posts) - - Show Bio

I would just like to go on record and say Doomed Affairs and Moving up are two of my favorite Spidey stories.

#45 Posted by Doctor_Malekith (58 posts) - - Show Bio

First of all, I am a fairly new fan, and the only Spider-Man run I have read that's over fifteen years old is the Stan Lee stories. That being said, I don't like JMS very much, although I only read The Other, Sins Past, and OMD, which people say are his worst stories. I do like how he writes Pete and MJ, though. I got into comics with Ultimate Spider-Man, so I only really read Ultimate Peter until Dan Slott's run got me into mainstream Marvel. Overall, my three favorite Spider-Man writers are Stan Lee, Brian Michael Bendis, and Dan Slott.

#46 Posted by frogdog (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

As far Recent spider-man writers go, only joe kelly can compare

Aside from Lee and Ditko my favorite is Roger Stern and David Michelinie

How about J. M. DeMatteis

#47 Posted by VeganDiet (1086 posts) - - Show Bio

@frogdog said:

As far Recent spider-man writers go, only joe kelly can compare

@tigerkaya said:

Aside from Lee and Ditko my favorite is Roger Stern and David Michelinie

How about J. M. DeMatteis

DeMatteis is great. Spectacular Spider-Man #200 would belong on any top ten Spidey Stories list.

Online
#48 Edited by silent_bomber (1828 posts) - - Show Bio

He's the "big" Spider-Man writer I probably have the least experience with.

I've only read Back in Black, and the 9/11 issue, both were cringe-worthy and cliche-ridden as far as I'm concerned.

The parts I've seen of Sins Past were some of the worst stuff I've seen in Spider-Man comics.

My first instinct is that JMS was someone who was embarrassed to be writing Spider-Man, everything in it seems to be trying to revise or explain something that needs no explaining, its also trying to be "gritty" or "realistic" and there's no real humour or fantasy.

It feels like Spider-Man is being shoehorned into a Batman style character, and JM Dematteis did that better 10 years earlier, and with a lot more intelligence, integrity, and understanding of the character (well, most of the time LOL).

I'll reserve final judgement until I've picked up "Coming Home" though.

#49 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

Roger Stern's run was the best.

#50 Posted by tupiaz (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

He did some interesting things and went in new corners with the character but he is not my all time favourite. However somewhere in a mid tier in top ten.