Thoughts on the Vine World

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lady_liberty

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Edited By lady_liberty

We live in exciting times. In our recent history the fabric of the global community has undergone a number of shifts. The Arab Spring, war in Afghanistan, the monetary crisis in Europe, China is selecting new leadership, Israel and Gaza are at it again. Plus so many more things! More then I have time to name.

The world is an exciting, interesting place right now. (For better or worse!)

But the Vine? Its a boring, stale, stagnate place.

Its choked by Empires. Empires that are perfect. Empires that never change. Empires that will NEVER fall. Empires that take up huge portions of the world and DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT!

Paese Di Tenebra

Or whatever the heck its called. So they have ALL of Russia, almost all of France, and Iceland. Okay. So, with all that territory surely some exciting stuff is going down here? After all that's a big team roster with some big names, they've got something big right!

Wrong.

In my entire time on the RPG forum absolutely nothing has happened. Its one of the biggest, most important and critical parts of the world. It has been completely transformed into a nation that doesn't resemble Russia at all, France floats around in space or something, and they have an army of dragons.

It sounds exciting, except its not exciting at all. Its dead. NOTHING HAPPENS.

There are a THOUSAND cool storylines that could be done with Russia and Europe, but too bad! All the real estate is tied up by people who are completely inactive.

How long has it been like this? More importantly, how long will it continue to be like this?

In your minds eye imagine a year into the future. Imagine things contuining in the same vein they are in now. Russia is still tied up by the same small, mostly inactive, group. And its still dead.

Is that really the future?

Sadly, yes. That's the future for Russia in the Vine. Dead, empty, inactive. Unless there is a big change that's going to be the future for years at least.

Santo Rey Empire

One of the most tumultuous, politically divisive, and violent places in all the real world. Jerusalem, oil, Islam, the Arab Spring, this is an exciting place in real life, which makes it RIPE for vine stories.

Except in the Vine is all one empire, and everyone gets along perfectly and everything is nice. Oh, and its also deader then a door-nail too.

Founded two months ago it has had a few moments of very brief excitement. And that's it. This is one of the deadest empires ever.

Its also one of the least likely empires I can dream up. I mean of all the places in the world to say everyone gets along? Seriously?

Santo Rey Empire just rips the excitement out of one of the most exciting and fast moving places in the world. And for how long? How long will this persist?

Years I guess. Years of stagnation.

Nakamura Empire

I've saved the worst for last.

So by some kinda magic some of the largest economies in the world get taken over. Fine, okay I'm cool with that for the purpose of a good story and some fun. But there was never any story, or any fun. Just BAM EMPIRE! And that's it. NOTHING EVER HAPPENED.

Seriously, a combination of the worlds most powerful nations and ZERO RESULTS.

Its military is even more off the charts then Paese Di Tenebra's dragon airforce. They've got the most powerful forces in the world, that just popped up out of no where, and have done exactly nothing ever.

How long will this go on? Years probably. A giant chunk of the world, dead, stagnant, unmoving, for years.

Summery

So, here we are. All you empire owners are no doubt pissed at me. Tough. I'm pissed at you.

You land grabbed giant chunks of the world, with that I was okay. But then you just set on them and did nothing. With that I am not okay. Other people play here too.

If you're not going to use it, just let it go. The Vine needs to MOVE.

And I'm sick of these motherf%^$ing empires on my motherf#$%ing planet.

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Tellumo

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#1  Edited By Tellumo

I dislike empires but this seems a bit excessive...

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lady_liberty

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#2  Edited By lady_liberty

@Tellumo: I don't really dislike them for being empires, I'm just frustrated with the stagnation of the large scale workings of the vine.

Almost every single location on earth is part of an inactive empire. I'm totally cool with empires that are doing something, or empires that take up less critical portions of the world. But empires that grab critical sections of the earth, and then do nothing with them?

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Sideslash

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#3  Edited By Sideslash

I TRY DAMMIT!

*Whispers.* I try.

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shanana

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#4  Edited By shanana

Utopian Empire = Ratings IJS lol

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Vengance101

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#5  Edited By Vengance101

should take over the empires of inactive people,

yah that sounds like a good rp

if they want to keep it they have to defend it :)

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Abattoir

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#6  Edited By Abattoir

Then attack T.I

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Lord_Johnathan

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#7  Edited By Lord_Johnathan

I see the Black Hand avoids getting mentioned.  But then, nobody's given a damn about the Balkans since the 40s.  :V

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Meticulous

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#8  Edited By Meticulous

This is exactly why Molly never officially opted to make her empires apart of the Vine. She felt that people were going to attempt to change the worlds that she had created, and then do nothing with them. So she decided to just do nothing with them, and at least in that way the retain their artistic integrity.

As soon as she posted her concepts, she had people trying to muscle in and overtake them. Seeing as how it was all on her, and she had no team backing her up, and didn't want to invest that amount of time into defending something nice she was trying to bring to everyone, she just stopped what she was doing and took a step back.

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Rumble Man

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#9  Edited By Rumble Man

@Ziccarra_Liafador: wats IJS?

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Sideslash

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#10  Edited By Sideslash

@Rumble Man said:

@Ziccarra_Liafador: wats IJS?

I'm Just Saying.

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#11  Edited By Rumble Man

@Sideslash: thankye

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#12  Edited By Sideslash

@Rumble Man: You're welcome

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Lady Loveless

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#13  Edited By Lady Loveless

@Lady_Liberty: I loved this and fully get the intensity of of your icon now...

So whats your solution? An all out war for territory...or something more elaborate?

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Nordok

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#14  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

Bah, screw the Earth! It's a primitive, backwater boulder of a planet. The real action is in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!

^_^

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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Nordok said:

Bah, screw the Earth! It's a primitive, backwater boulder of a planet. The real action is in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!

^_^

Yes!  More space!  Can't get enough spaaaace!   Here's to hoping that the GotG movie makes space the go to thing.
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Sideslash

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#16  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity: @Nordok: Pfft. Occult realms are where the action is.

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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: @Nordok: Pfft. Occult realms are where the action is.

Generally anywhere *but* Earth.  Go role play on the sun or something for all I care, just anywhere but the damn Earth, New York's been reduced to a pile of rubble at least 15 times now (I've counted).  
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#18  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

@Guardian_of_Gravity:

Raises a toast.

Here to boldly going where no...okay, so the Keresh and the Ninjans and about a dozen others have totally gone there before, but there's always new places to discover, and lots of room to avoid political squabbles. That's why it's called "space!"

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Rumble Man

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#19  Edited By Rumble Man

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Nordok said:

Bah, screw the Earth! It's a primitive, backwater boulder of a planet. The real action is in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!

^_^

Yes! More space! Can't get enough spaaaace! Here's to hoping that the GotG movie makes space the go to thing.

spehss

I wanna punch stuff with john

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Sideslash

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#20  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity: And magically gets completely rebuilt every week.

That said...The Sun, eh?

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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: And magically gets completely rebuilt every week.

That said...The Sun, eh?

It's an example of absolutely anywhere being better than the Earth which realistically should be nearly uninhabitable after all the crap it's been through.  
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Sideslash

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#22  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity: .....

*Plots the complete, utter, total, irreversible, extremely thorough, destruction of Earth via Heaven/Hell war.*

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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: .....

*Plots the complete, utter, total, irreversible, extremely thorough, destruction of Earth via Heaven/Hell war.*

Except that because the Abrahamic mythologies are no more important or powerful than any Pagan one (Primordials aren't counted for obvious reason), a Heaven/Hell war would elicit a "oh hey another skyfather is throwing a hissy fit, meh."  
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Sideslash

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#24  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: .....

*Plots the complete, utter, total, irreversible, extremely thorough, destruction of Earth via Heaven/Hell war.*

Except that because the Abrahamic mythologies are no more important or powerful than any Pagan one (Primordials aren't counted for obvious reason), a Heaven/Hell war would elicit a "oh hey another skyfather is throwing a hissy fit, meh."

I say thee nay!

I'm talking a full on war with Vertigo Michael Lucifer power levels applying to all angels.

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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: .....

*Plots the complete, utter, total, irreversible, extremely thorough, destruction of Earth via Heaven/Hell war.*

Except that because the Abrahamic mythologies are no more important or powerful than any Pagan one (Primordials aren't counted for obvious reason), a Heaven/Hell war would elicit a "oh hey another skyfather is throwing a hissy fit, meh."

I say thee nay!

I'm talking a full on war with Vertigo Michael Lucifer power levels applying to all angels.

That would contradict established canon with Yahweh being just another Skyfather and Lucifer as just another Hell Lord.    
 
Plus, I kind of already have Yahweh tied up as Ryujin's least favorite whiny brat attention whoring son who's actually a little less powerful than Odin.    
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Sideslash

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#26  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: .....

*Plots the complete, utter, total, irreversible, extremely thorough, destruction of Earth via Heaven/Hell war.*

Except that because the Abrahamic mythologies are no more important or powerful than any Pagan one (Primordials aren't counted for obvious reason), a Heaven/Hell war would elicit a "oh hey another skyfather is throwing a hissy fit, meh."

I say thee nay!

I'm talking a full on war with Vertigo Michael Lucifer power levels applying to all angels.

That would contradict established canon with Yahweh being just another Skyfather and Lucifer as just another Hell Lord. Plus, I kind of already have Yahweh tied up as Ryujin's least favorite whiny brat attention whoring son who's actually a little less powerful than Odin.

Sorry, I have the same opinion as half the Viners around here.

F**k the Canon.

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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Sideslash : 
But part of why the vine is cool is that it *has* no one above all equivalent.  No prime mover, no single head honcho.   I fundamentally disagree with the idea of giving Abrahamic myth any primacy, because' it's just another set of myths in the end, just one that was able to exterminate other, more flavourful myths.  
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Sideslash

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#28  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity: Again:

F**k the Canon

F**k the Vine

F**k everyone

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Nordok

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#29  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

All kidding aside, I think that the major trap that most empires fall into is everyone seems to feel that there should be epic world-war story arcs that go along with them. These are fine, for what they are, but they require a consistent commitment by a fairly large number of people to work. People get bored, get tied up with alts, or just have RL interject, and suddenly what started out as a massive global conflict just kinda fizzles and goes away. I wouldn't mind seeing some cold war style, cloak and dagger espionage. Seriously, let's get the Vine version of Bond and Team X rolling!

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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Sideslash : 
I just think Abrahamic myth is a tad too poorly written, hackneyed, and generally uninteresting compared to Pagan myths to be allowed primacy over other, more interesting, and generally cooler myths.  I respect Marvel for having the balls to make Yahweh not only just a skyfather, but a fairly weak one who would get punked by Zeus or Odin any day, every day.    Plus, why should it be Abrahamic myth?  Why not something completely original?  
 
@Nordok said:

All kidding aside, I think that the major trap that most empires fall into is everyone seems to feel that there should be epic world-war story arcs that go along with them. These are fine, for what they are, but they require a consistent commitment by a fairly large number of people to work. People get bored, get tied up with alts, or just have RL interject, and suddenly what started out as a massive global conflict just kinda fizzles and goes away. I wouldn't mind seeing some cold war style, cloak and dagger espionage. Seriously, let's get the Vine version of Bond and Team X rolling!

Hrmm...
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lady_liberty

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#31  Edited By lady_liberty

*Logs out and eats. Logs back in to 29 PMs.*

Let me get caught up lol.

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Sideslash

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#32  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity: New gods? Original gods?

One of my alts prays to the pantheon from the Forgotten Realms books.

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#33  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

@Guardian_of_Gravity: I really do think that would be an effective compromise. The empires get some blood flowing through their veins, few feathers get ruffled, everyone wins!

You know, except for the occasional spy that gets caught and dunked in the shark tank, but sometimes you have the take the entertaining bad with the good. ^_^

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@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: New gods? Original gods?

One of my alts prays to the pantheon from the Forgotten Realms books.

Actually original deities.   And I always preferred Greyhawk to Faerun.    
 
@Nordok said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: I really do think that would be an effective compromise. The empires get some blood flowing through their veins, few feathers get ruffled, everyone wins!

You know, except for the occasional spy that gets caught and dunked in the shark tank, but sometimes you have the take the entertaining bad with the good. ^_^

Hrm, now to get people to move their lazy butts out of their own countries.  
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lady_liberty

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#35  Edited By lady_liberty

@Lady Loveless said:

@Lady_Liberty: I loved this and fully get the intensity of of your icon now...

So whats your solution? An all out war for territory...or something more elaborate?

Thankies.

I don't think there is a realistic solution. We're stuck with this for a while.

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Lucrecia

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#36  Edited By Lucrecia
@Nordok said:

All kidding aside, I think that the major trap that most empires fall into is everyone seems to feel that there should be epic world-war story arcs that go along with them. These are fine, for what they are, but they require a consistent commitment by a fairly large number of people to work. People get bored, get tied up with alts, or just have RL interject, and suddenly what started out as a massive global conflict just kinda fizzles and goes away.I wouldn't mind seeing some cold war style, cloak and dagger espionage. Seriously, let's get the Vine version of Bond and Team X rolling!

I was just about to say this. Or something like it.
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Guardian_of_Gravity

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@Lady_Liberty said:

@Lady Loveless said:

@Lady_Liberty: I loved this and fully get the intensity of of your icon now...

So whats your solution? An all out war for territory...or something more elaborate?

Thankies.

I don't think there is a realistic solution. We're stuck with this for a while.

Alien/Extradimensional Invasion?  
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#38  Edited By Meticulous

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: .....

*Plots the complete, utter, total, irreversible, extremely thorough, destruction of Earth via Heaven/Hell war.*

Except that because the Abrahamic mythologies are no more important or powerful than any Pagan one (Primordials aren't counted for obvious reason), a Heaven/Hell war would elicit a "oh hey another skyfather is throwing a hissy fit, meh."

Actually I don't agree with this. In most mythologies even the Pagan ones they are based off of Pantheons, a group of deities that rep certain fractions of life itself. In the Abrahamic mythologies however its a Monotheism. Meaning one God, that created everything, as reps everything. The Pagan mythologies, even the Primordial Gods don't stand alone. Their are very few mythologies that have an All Powerful Deity. The Greeks, and the Norse for an example made their Gods very human, very relatable to themselves. Same with the Pagan Gods. They comfort the followers by not expecting much from them, and being very ritual about things which makes them easy enough to please. The Abrahmic God however is very different in that IT does not seem very human, and expects a lot from IT's followers.

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#39  Edited By Sideslash

@Guardian_of_Gravity: Meh, that involves actual work...I might see if I can do something about that...

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#40  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

@Saukerl: The way I figure, the uber-powered rulers can play the diplomatic games and plan future wars, and this would get the street-levelers some imperial involvement.

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#41  Edited By Izaiah
@Guardian_of_Gravity said:
That would contradict established canon with Yahweh being just another Skyfather and Lucifer as just another Hell Lord.     Plus, I kind of already have Yahweh tied up as Ryujin's least favorite whiny brat attention whoring son who's actually a little less powerful than Odin.    
Established by whom, exactly?
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Lucrecia

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#42  Edited By Lucrecia
@Nordok: I didn't think it through that much. But it'd still work, I guess, as far as byproducts go.
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@Meticulous said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Sideslash said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity: .....

*Plots the complete, utter, total, irreversible, extremely thorough, destruction of Earth via Heaven/Hell war.*

Except that because the Abrahamic mythologies are no more important or powerful than any Pagan one (Primordials aren't counted for obvious reason), a Heaven/Hell war would elicit a "oh hey another skyfather is throwing a hissy fit, meh."

Actually I don't agree with this. In most mythologies even the Pagan ones they are based off of Pantheons, a group of deities that rep certain fractions of life itself. In the Abrahamic mythologies however its a Monotheism. Meaning one God, that created everything, as reps everything. The Pagan mythologies, even the Primordial Gods don't stand alone. Their are very few mythologies that have an All Powerful Deity. The Greeks, and the Norse for an example made their Gods very human, very relatable to themselves. Same with the Pagan Gods. They comfort the followers by not expecting much from them, and being very ritual about things which makes them easy enough to please. The Abrahmic God however is very different in that IT does not seem very human, and expects a lot from IT's followers.

Generally speaking, there are very few ways to reconcile Monotheistic religions with Pagan ones in a fantasy or comic book setting.  You can go with Marvel's interpretation which says that the Monotheistic gods are liars and are just another bunch of gods and none of them created the Earth (makes more sense honestly in a universe where beings like Celestials can step on gods with ease and when other species on other planets have THEIR own real, breathing gods), or DC's which puts Yahweh on a pedestal above the other gods and cosmics, but even here, no god created the Earth directly, the planet still having formed via more or less the same way modern science describes.  
 
I went with the Marvel Route whenever I tread with the divine.  All the creation myths are wrong when taken at face value.  
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Nordok

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#44  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

@Saukerl: I tend to think things through way too much. It's really a serious problem.

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Lucrecia

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#45  Edited By Lucrecia
@Nordok: True. True. Don't worry, I'll make you regret enough to stop having that problem.
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Nordok

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#46  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

@Saukerl: Going to make me damage my own facilities by putting you through walls, huh? ;)

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@Izaiah said:
@Guardian_of_Gravity said:
That would contradict established canon with Yahweh being just another Skyfather and Lucifer as just another Hell Lord.     Plus, I kind of already have Yahweh tied up as Ryujin's least favorite whiny brat attention whoring son who's actually a little less powerful than Odin.    
Established by whom, exactly?
Final Arrow's stuff showed the Abrahamic figures as not necessarily any more powerful than any other Pantheon and needing his help to achieve primacy, and even then they never showed anything that wouldn't lead to them getting Roflstomped by a passing Celestial.   I just rolled with that and said that while Yahweh, Allah, and Jehovah are all powerful Skyfathers, they're still just Skyfathers.   Powerful beyond mortal comprehension, but if Arishem the Judge were to visit heaven one day, the nine spheres would go crashing down hard.  
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Lucrecia

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#48  Edited By Lucrecia
@Nordok: No, no. This time you're going through walls. I adapt. It's my thing.
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Nordok

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#49  Edited By Nordok  Moderator

@Saukerl: So proud. ^_^

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Lucrecia

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#50  Edited By Lucrecia

We went from stagnant empires to "Which deity holds how much power?"
 
@Guardian_of_Gravity
Wait. So what makes Ryujin or whatever more powerful than, say, Poseidon?