#151 Edited by The Psyentist (19124 posts) - - Show Bio

@ziccarra_liafador: If it makes you feel better, it took a lot to convince him even to keep on with my RPG he's in. He's been not feeling RPG since he's come back.

@nordok said:

Or so help me, I will hurl this entire planet into the sun with telekinesis.

No, I am not speaking IC.

This is why you are my friend. ;)

#152 Posted by Reignfire (1461 posts) - - Show Bio
#153 Edited by Shanana (53456 posts) - - Show Bio
#154 Posted by Shadow_Thief (2502 posts) - - Show Bio

You know, I had a front-row seat for Prime going down the crapper, and it wasn't empires, vampires, long posts, short posts, or fence posts that did it in. It was people being a-holes. People put a lot of time and energy into their characters and their posts; I get that. However, it seems like every time there's some piddling dispute over what amounts to stylistic differences, bloated, easily-bruised egos shove all rational thought aside. The G in RPG stands for "game," as I understand it; this is supposed to be fun. If I wanted to deal with a bunch of childish bull, I'd open a daycare and at least get paid for doing so.

And before anyone asks, no, this is not aimed at any particular person. If the show fits, wear it. If anything, I blame myself more than anyone else because I just sat there and watched it happen, rather than speaking up and trying to do something about it.

#155 Edited by Shanana (53456 posts) - - Show Bio

You know, I had a front-row seat for Prime going down the crapper, and it wasn't empires, vampires, long posts, short posts, or fence posts that did it in. It was people being a-holes. People put a lot of time and energy into their characters and their posts; I get that. However, it seems like every time there's some piddling dispute over what amounts to stylistic differences, bloated, easily-bruised egos shove all rational thought aside. The G in RPG stands for "game," as I understand it; this is supposed to be fun. If I wanted to deal with a bunch of childish bull, I'd open a daycare and at least get paid for doing so.

And before anyone asks, no, this is not aimed at any particular person. If the show fits, wear it. If anything, I blame myself more than anyone else because I just sat there and watched it happen, rather than speaking up and trying to do something about it.

I concur.

#156 Posted by Reignfire (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow_thief said:

You know, I had a front-row seat for Prime going down the crapper, and it wasn't empires, vampires, long posts, short posts, or fence posts that did it in. It was people being a-holes. People put a lot of time and energy into their characters and their posts; I get that. However, it seems like every time there's some piddling dispute over what amounts to stylistic differences, bloated, easily-bruised egos shove all rational thought aside. The G in RPG stands for "game," as I understand it; this is supposed to be fun. If I wanted to deal with a bunch of childish bull, I'd open a daycare and at least get paid for doing so.

And before anyone asks, no, this is not aimed at any particular person. If the show fits, wear it. If anything, I blame myself more than anyone else because I just sat there and watched it happen, rather than speaking up and trying to do something about it.

I concur.

If only the Vine had one single issue, but I not entirely disagree with your rationale

#157 Edited by Shanana (53456 posts) - - Show Bio

@ziccarra_liafador said:

@shadow_thief said:

You know, I had a front-row seat for Prime going down the crapper, and it wasn't empires, vampires, long posts, short posts, or fence posts that did it in. It was people being a-holes. People put a lot of time and energy into their characters and their posts; I get that. However, it seems like every time there's some piddling dispute over what amounts to stylistic differences, bloated, easily-bruised egos shove all rational thought aside. The G in RPG stands for "game," as I understand it; this is supposed to be fun. If I wanted to deal with a bunch of childish bull, I'd open a daycare and at least get paid for doing so.

And before anyone asks, no, this is not aimed at any particular person. If the show fits, wear it. If anything, I blame myself more than anyone else because I just sat there and watched it happen, rather than speaking up and trying to do something about it.

I concur.

If only the Vine had one single issue, but I not entirely disagree with your rationale

Mine?

#158 Posted by Reignfire (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

Shadow Thief's

(I think I quoted your response by mistake, not sure what your take is Z)

#159 Posted by Shanana (53456 posts) - - Show Bio

Shadow Thief's

(I think I quoted your response by mistake, not sure what your take is Z)

Oh, I figured.

#160 Edited by FALLENprophet (6586 posts) - - Show Bio

Has the Vine gotten worse?

#161 Posted by Shanana (53456 posts) - - Show Bio
#162 Posted by FALLENprophet (6586 posts) - - Show Bio
#163 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@rain_eclipse_ves: Yeah, probably not. But it seems Andy is upset because I've voiced an opinion that is critical of Psy's choices. And to be honest I get it, criticism hurts. I get a lot of criticism over the nU and it hurts my feelings sometimes, and pisses me off other times.

But at the same time opinions that you disagree with are part of life here, and pretty much everywhere else. If Andy wants to exit the canon world and RP only in places where he can ensure there will be no opinions that hurt his feelings, well.. Okay. I mean maybe that IS right for him. I liked his roleplay and I hate to see him depart but if its necessary for him to maintain his desired emotional state and be happy, well, okay.

#164 Posted by Ginju (333 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: alright i wasn't here nor do i know the entire story, but Andy has never been nor will he ever be that conceited nor shallow that others opinions greatly effect him in that way. He is one of the FEW people still around who take others opinions and accepts them, and even help them further their ideas or opinions. He does not throw them in their face. So THESE comments

@rain_eclipse_ves:

But at the same time opinions that you disagree with are part of life here, and pretty much everywhere else. If Andy wants to exit the canon world and RP only in places where he can ensure there will be no opinions that hurt his feelings

Can go without saying out loud, because you are trying to start a fire under someones bum.

#165 Posted by Reignfire (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

@rain_eclipse_ves: Yeah, probably not. But it seems Andy is upset because I've voiced an opinion that is critical of Psy's choices. And to be honest I get it, criticism hurts. I get a lot of criticism over the nU and it hurts my feelings sometimes, and pisses me off other times.

But at the same time opinions that you disagree with are part of life here, and pretty much everywhere else. If Andy wants to exit the canon world and RP only in places where he can ensure there will be no opinions that hurt his feelings, well.. Okay. I mean maybe that IS right for him. I liked his roleplay and I hate to see him depart but if its necessary for him to maintain his desired emotional state and be happy, well, okay.

Strix, we have had extensive debates in the past, and while I may not have taken offense, you sometimes have a tact issue.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with how Psy decides to roll with the HFC event (we all have opinions), but go back and look at your comments, you could have made your points without sticking in the needle so deep here and there.

#166 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@ginju: Alrighties then, how would you characterize it?

#167 Edited by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio
#168 Posted by Ginju (333 posts) - - Show Bio
#169 Edited by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@ginju: You had disagreed with how I characterized Andy's actions, from what I understood. That's the section of my post you quoted and commented on. What I was asking is how you would differ in your characterization of his choices.

#170 Posted by Reignfire (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix:

I think that the manner in which you present the ideas at times is counterproductive. It does not matter how/if right you are if you alienate the very people that it is meant for.

I have went off the handle myself before so I am speaking from experience.

#171 Posted by Ginju (333 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: He left for the same reasons he has in the past, senseless drama. If i didnt NEED to write to stay even slightly sane, I would of left this site for the very same reason years .

#172 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@rain_eclipse_ves: That's sometimes true. I'm very careful to moderate how I express my thoughts most of the time. I keep it in PM's with my friends and so forth. But every now and again I don't. Then I sail my ship in a sea of hurt butts ;-)

#173 Edited by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@ginju: I think that's a fair perspective.

#174 Posted by Reignfire (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

@ginju said:

@amaranth_strix: He left for the same reasons he has in the past, senseless drama. If i didnt NEED to write to stay even slightly sane, I would of left this site for the very same reason years .

Drama is inevitable, as long as all sides stay civil it should not be an issue.

@rain_eclipse_ves: That's sometimes true. I'm very careful to moderate how I express my thoughts most of the time. I keep it in PM's with my friends and so forth. But every now and again I don't. Then I sail my ship in a sea of hurt butts ;-)

Everyone crosses the line at times, just keep it in mind, your too smart to use such petty methods

#175 Posted by Ginju (333 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: Yep

@rain_eclipse_ves: No no, arguments are inevitable. Drama is created for one purpose, to be a pain in the ass. Drama and Arguments are two separate things.

#176 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@rain_eclipse_ves: Although to be honest if I had to do it all over again I'd do the same thing. A lot more good came of it than bad.

#177 Edited by Reignfire (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

@rain_eclipse_ves: Although to be honest if I had to do it all over again I'd do the same thing. A lot more good came of it than bad.

The loss of Andy's potential further interactions, plus the drama to shake up the already shaky state of the Vine outweighs anything to come from the discussion IMO.

I have to disagree, but I also think it is best to let this die. Bumping the wound is not productive.

#178 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@rain_eclipse_ves: This has all happened before, and it will all happen again ;-) But fair enough, I'll leave it until someone else replies to me lol.

#179 Posted by Feral Nova (47487 posts) - - Show Bio

@rain_eclipse_ves: Although to be honest if I had to do it all over again I'd do the same thing. A lot more good came of it than bad.

WHAT!? HOW DID MORE GOOD COME OUT OF THIS?!

Andy is no longer RPing in the cannon world and you insulted psy! How is this GOOD?

#180 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@feral_nova: Those are the negative things. But if you read up thread there was a lot of pretty good discussion about the state of the Vine, what does and doesn't make successful RPGs, and so forth.

#181 Edited by Feral Nova (47487 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix:

I have read it and I'm... appalled at the way you went about things and to say that you would do the same thing again? If you didn't like something you could have gone about a whole other way other than insulting Psy like that, you say you were being blunt but I say you were just being... rude and mean!

You could have gone about a different way on how to go about the 'state of the vine' and what 'works' and what 'doesnt work' but for you to just point out someone like that who has been putting so much work into the CVnU (just like everyone else) is mean.

#183 Edited by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

You cant preach "No drama" then throw yourself in the middle of it. Jus sayin ;)

#184 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@feral_nova: There's a large double standard here. You've always felt free to criticize me and my ideas, often quite publicly. And I've always tried to keep an open mind and level head about it even though it has sometimes seemed I couldn't even propose an RPG idea without Nova telling me why it sucked and was bad.

Andy felt free to criticize how I roleplay my character, and under the circumstances I tried to be calm about the issue.

Eddy, Punk, Naamah, Shadowknight, and many more have offered exceptionally blunt opinions about me and my choices that have been negative and public. Yet I'm on pretty good terms with most of them, despite their critical opinions.

However now is the time you decide that negative opinions are too much? Come on now ;-)

#185 Posted by Ellie_Knightfall (4820 posts) - - Show Bio

I may be scarce the next couple of weeks. I've got three weeks with a VERY light work schedule and I need to get a ton of stuff done around the house to get ready for moving. Plus my novel needs attention.

#186 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio
#187 Posted by Feral Nova (47487 posts) - - Show Bio

I've told you that your RP idea sucks? I've complained (and said sucked) about open RP's with no Ooc's and I've complained about people Godmodding, no selling, and tournaments without separate RP's for each group of fighters, heck I've even b!tched about people doing auto-hits and doing other things to other characters without their permission, having OP characters and throwing me in RP's without my permission but telling someone that their RP idea sucks, that I don't remember saying. If I've ever told you that your RP sucked then I apologize for it, I know how much work is involved into an RP, and I know how hard it is to get one going, it was out of place of me to say that your RP sucked.

And criticizing how you write character and telling someone that they are part of the reason the CVnU vine is 'not working out' (or however you worded it) are two different things. I've even been criticized by Andy (back in the day) about my writing and I've been told by dozens of vets (before your time) that my writing of my character needed to be improved, why it needed to improve, exactly what needed to be improved and how to improve it and how to become better. Was some of it hurtful towards me? Yes, it was, but I took it and made myself better. Am I saying that NOW I'm the best? No, of course I'm not, that would be silly of me to even think that. Am I saying that criticism and offering advice is good? Yes, I am. Am I saying that telling someone they are part of the down fall of CVnU is considered as criticism and good advice? hell no I'm not.

As for those four, that's something between you and them. If your on good terms, that's great, good for you, and I'm sorry that they were so blunt with you. But this is something that I just cant get pass. So yes I am saying that pointing someone out and saying that they are one of the reasons the CVnU is failing is too negative to say to a person.

#188 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
#189 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

I've told you that your RP idea sucks? I've complained (and said sucked) about open RP's with no Ooc's and I've complained about people Godmodding, no selling, and tournaments without separate RP's for each group of fighters, heck I've even b!tched about people doing auto-hits and doing other things to other characters without their permission, having OP characters and throwing me in RP's without my permission but telling someone that their RP idea sucks, that I don't remember saying. If I've ever told you that your RP sucked then I apologize for it, I know how much work is involved into an RP, and I know how hard it is to get one going, it was out of place of me to say that your RP sucked.

And criticizing how you write character and telling someone that they are part of the reason the CVnU vine is 'not working out' (or however you worded it) are two different things. I've even been criticized by Andy (back in the day) about my writing and I've been told by dozens of vets (before your time) that my writing of my character needed to be improved, why it needed to improve, exactly what needed to be improved and how to improve it and how to become better. Was some of it hurtful towards me? Yes, it was, but I took it and made myself better. Am I saying that NOW I'm the best? No, of course I'm not, that would be silly of me to even think that. Am I saying that criticism and offering advice is good? Yes, I am. Am I saying that telling someone they are part of the down fall of CVnU is considered as criticism and good advice? hell no I'm not.

As for those four, that's something between you and them. If your on good terms, that's great, good for you, and I'm sorry that they were so blunt with you. But this is something that I just cant get pass. So yes I am saying that pointing someone out and saying that they are one of the reasons the CVnU is failing is too negative to say to a person.

Where are you getting this stuff from? It doesn't seem connected to anything that I actually said.

First of all the CVnU seems fairly healthy at the present. As I said upthread there's plenty of new players with new ideas, a lot of good local activity. Heck I'm even in like a million RPG's. So I never said the CVnU was failing, and I'm not sure where you've got that idea from.

Secondly I never said Psy was causing the CVnU to fail. Let me be honest with you, if I thought for a SECOND Psy was causing damage to the CVnU as a whole you would know it. If you think I've been harsh here, you'd have a heart attack at what I'd do if Psy was damaging the whole CVnU. The CVnU is far more valuable than the feelings of any ONE person.

--

Basically that's a straw man. You're attacking me for something that I didn't say. Are you upset for that reason? Because if you are I think you can be at peace, as I never said or implied Psy was bringing down the CVnU or something.

#190 Edited by Pyrogram (41329 posts) - - Show Bio

I may be scarce the next couple of weeks. I've got three weeks with a VERY light work schedule and I need to get a ton of stuff done around the house to get ready for moving. Plus my novel needs attention.

Good luck with the novel!

#191 Edited by Tellumo (511 posts) - - Show Bio
#192 Edited by Feral Nova (47487 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix:

No? Well maybe I got the wrong impression then when I read

  • HFC annoys me. No one asked me if I wanted to be in that RPG, or if it was a good idea to take a fun and exciting storyline and throw it away with a long post. That was the death of a bad ass line.
  • That happens, usually when something big happens or there's a big storyline. The HFC storyline for example caused a lot of location to location chatter. Until it was turned into a one thread show.
  • Actually Psy's comment made me think of something else I've wanted to talk about. Psy wasn't around for all the developments and advancements the Vine has made in RPGing. Most of the returning old timers weren't. All this knowledge has to be passed on some how, it doesn't magically fly from our brains into everyone else brain. (I didn't pull in the rest because I didn't want to add all the fluff, if you want it in there I'll be more than happy to copy and past it)

I'm sorry if you didn't mean it the way I'm taking it, but after reading those comments (specifically towards Psy and at the RP and team she's made) it's hard for me to think you DIDN'T mean it like that. Am I blowing this out of proportion? Probably. But if you were to replace Psy's name, put my name in there and replace HFC with say WAL I would be taking it a bit personal myself.

Like I said, I'm sorry if I'm taking it the wrong way but... the way you worded everything, that's what it's making it sound like to me.

#193 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

@feral_nova: Nova, how on earth do you go from my statements to 'Psy is killing the CVnU'. That's one heck of a leap. To be honest I think you have been drinking the Liberty haterade a bit too much. But lets go over what you have quoted.

  • HFC annoys me. No one asked me if I wanted to be in that RPG, or if it was a good idea to take a fun and exciting storyline and throw it away with a long post. That was the death of a bad ass line.

A: It annoyed me because all my actions and RP was abruptly shifted into a RPG without anyone consulting me. In fact I recall you being annoyed over very nearly the same thing. But now suddenly its a cardinal sin? Come on.

B: It threw away a great storyline. The HFC conflict was pretty awesome. We were fighting in different threads, making allies in different threads, talking about it in different threads and so forth. It was a grand vine wide event. But when the HFC went live all that died. You can, and SHOULD check for yourself. Don't just take my word for it Nova, go back and count the posts and posts dates. Activity on the vine decreased within three days of the HFC storyline.

Now you are hurt that I've pointed this out. But I haven't said anything that isn't true. Psy did make the RPG without talking one of the people who was a critical player in the event, me. And when she did that the RPG activity dropped. Those are facts Nova. If you don't like those facts, well neither do I.

It seems you are blaming me for stating something WHICH WAS TRUE, and which YOU DID AS WELL.

Now where do you get 'Psy is killing nU' out of this?

That happens, usually when something big happens or there's a big storyline. The HFC storyline for example caused a lot of location to location chatter. Until it was turned into a one thread show.

I believe here I was talking about location to location chatter with Rain. But lets examine what I said.

A: The HFC storyline had a lot of crossovers between threads, caused some activity, and was THE storyline for a while. All was good!

B: The storyline was transitioned into a single thread. When that happened the majority of the crossovers between locations stopped.

So, again, I state two sets of FACTS. You can, and should, go back and check this stuff for yourself.

Also again, I'm not sure how the heck you get from those facts to 'Psy is killing the nU'. That's ridiculous Nova.

Actually Psy's comment made me think of something else I've wanted to talk about. Psy wasn't around for all the developments and advancements the Vine has made in RPGing. Most of the returning old timers weren't. All this knowledge has to be passed on some how, it doesn't magically fly from our brains into everyone else brain. (I didn't pull in the rest because I didn't want to add all the fluff, if you want it in there I'll be more than happy to copy and past it)

I'm not sure why you used this..? It seems to hurt your argument, not help. But okay. I'll play lol.

Psy has been gone a long time. In that time a LOT of things have happened. Specifically we've learned a LOT about what keeps storylines going, what keeps activity up, how to make a successful event and so forth. But mostly we've learned it by trial, error, and discussion. But Psy wasn't around for the development of that knowledge, so how could she know?

As I said above it doesn't magically fly from our brains into everyone else's. There needs to be some method to store and pass on the knowledge we've developed. In fact its necessary because its the only way for the vine to truly grow and improve over the long term.

Basically, Psy didn't know, because she didn't have a chance to learn. There's no process to teach. So I don't think this is completely her fault, because she didn't know. That's why it confuses me that you choose that quote, because it does nothing at all for your argument that I'm some kinda horrible b!tch ;-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the end Psy decided to turn the storyline into a single thread storyline in the long post format. That ended most of the inthread activity being maintained by that storyline, and thus decreased the activity of the Vine as a whole.

In return we gained activity in one single thread, the Hell Fire RPG. Now that is actually a pretty solid RPG. I'm bored, but I think it has more to do with me writing some variation of a martial arts / sci-fi character for months than the RPG itself. The roleplay has been solid, the posts pretty fun, and drama free to my knowledge. So its a successful RPG.

But its just ONE, at the cost of an entire storyline that supported MANY threads.

And somehow you have gone from the basic facts 'Psy made a mistake, probably because she didn't know' to 'Psy is killing the nU'. Which seems silly to me Nova, and I'm not certain where you are getting this stuff from. Its quite hyperbolic and disconnected from any statements I've made.

#194 Posted by Ginju (333 posts) - - Show Bio

NO MORE!!!

Everyone, even people I side with take it to a PM. Because very soon people who know how to shut people up, will come in here and do their best to shut the party up. Please, this is a damn hiatus thread not a bitch thread. You want a bitch thread theres a what grinds my gears thread. I am sick of this, I come here to take my mind away from the stress and drama of my real life.

#195 Posted by Armistice (4132 posts) - - Show Bio

FYI

I will be taking a semi-hiatus starting next week from the CvnU proper.

Between an upcoming work trip and the following project my time will be limited at best, no way I can guarantee to have availability sound enough to be relied on.

Add that to the overall apathy that hangs over the Vine RPG section and taking a lesser role again feels appropriate.

Armistice/Reignfire

Will continue with flashback RPG's with Ellie Knighfall at a leisurely pace.

Will finish interaction RP with Gambler and crew if completed by Tuesday (departing cross country then)

Possible sporadic short term appearances as time allows.

Sovereigns

TBD if the team will be taken over by another member and moved forward, or put on hold itself.

More than willing to hand the keys over to keep an active team from folding.

Black Cell

Anyone using them as bio or background material are free to continue to do so, but further development on my end will be put on hold.

#196 Edited by Tank. (2052 posts) - - Show Bio

@armistice: Safe journey and best of luck with your work.

#197 Posted by Jay_August (747 posts) - - Show Bio
#198 Edited by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio
#199 Posted by Pyrogram (41329 posts) - - Show Bio

@armistice: See you later man, Wishing you the best of luck and a safe trip.

#200 Posted by Urban_Ronin (9935 posts) - - Show Bio