Events on the Vine - Discussion

Just thought I would throw this out there and see if others agreed, disagreed, or whatnot in regards to large-scale, Vine-wide events. These comments do not apply to small closed RPG's or interactions, only the major impact open events.

Looking at the Vine today I can see:

The Cataclysm - Sha has her series of events in the third act but still going on, knowing her this will still be going on for a while with epilogues and loose ends tied up.

Paradise Lost - Warsman is just starting an empire claim that will expect to draw a major response IC from a number of fronts.

Worlds Collide - Knox/Pariah is just starting a worldwide invasion from various alternate reality analogues to an undetermined level.

Why are we (as a whole) trying to push multiple open events at the same time, when there are barely enough writers to keep one flush with activity? Would we not be better served following one up with the next so that we are not:

1 - Suffering periods of having too many things going on to participate in them all, followed by nothing to do for weeks until something new finally pops up. Wouldn't you rather want your event to be the only big thing going on at the time to ensure it is the major focus?

2 - Cannibalizing activity between multiple events, causing people to have to pick and choose what event to roll with because they do not have time for more. I would rather see a single event going on with huge participation than 3-4 events with with minor participation.

3 - Having events go by where characters, teams, political figures, etc. who would by common sense alone have a stance or reaction, yet do not because the writers behind them do not have the time to do so with so much going on at once. Just throwing events out there and expecting they will take part by default is not a very good idea and only frustrates people playing these roles.

Now I know these events can all be treated as taking place at unspecified times before or after others, but we do not have that benefit IRL, why not be sensible and manage these in a more orderly fashion? I fully understand that people may be itching to unleash their next concept, but consistently doing so in a crowd is just shooting ourselves in the foot.

Comments Welcome.

Bloody righteous, my good sir!

Well I started the Cataclysm almost 2 months ago, I'm actually surprised it's still going and I guess still relevant enough to be mentioned. I'd like to integrate the Vine into one canon (Seamless transition between events), but not everyone likes a certain concept; I can't expect someone to hold off their idea until mine finishes.

What Sha said. I agree, we should have a linear set of events to keep it clean, it'd be great to keep it all straight. but the vine works almost too much like the real world. Events happen at once and out of nowhere all the time.

That said I'm not aganst trying to setup a system of some kind to clean it up. So long as it doesn't restrict other peoples ideas for too long. Maybe a time cap on events?

The Cataclysm started with a smaller cast, only towards the end would I consider it an "open event"

I'm never expecting the Vine to be a single canon that everyone references the same, this is more time and activity management.

I'm not asking for a hard and fast rule of "one event at a time, period" , but spreading these things out helps everyone IMO.

Interactions and small closed RPG's usually only affect the participants, Vine-wide events reshape the world, they should have the focus and wide participation to sell that it is a big deal. Spacing these out only should not be that difficult.

A time cap may cut short a very popular event, I'm not looking to institute a hard rule, just an understanding of "do what makes sense looking at the Vine activity"

This is as an point as it gets. I agree with everything you mentioned.

@armistice: I'll only speak for myself, but if I make an event it's out of a creative present minded position with fun as a main goal and a strategic purpose as the secondary. half the fun for me is having the idea and acting on it asap to keep that creative flame growing and rolling. I stifle that and it'll snuff out.

I think a time cap works if for no reason than the psychology of it. More people might actually clammer to start events and think up the next big creative thing while the current event is going on so they can try and top it or change the canon in their own unique way. Where as now, we have periods where we're lucky to see anything big go down that includes a large amount of people.

Usually fluctuates when Sha comes and goes :P

@fraga: Thanks kid.

@_the_force_: No worries, mano.

A bit more organization would be nice. But part of the appeal is how free one is to make and do what they want. Plus it helps contain things a bit IMO. If everyone is in something it's easier for Flying France or DC Blood Floods to happen in events not really built for that. Any things possible in cv but also some things are designed a particular way. Double the users in event and odds of a change of flow are more likely.

It's also hard to manage as who knows when things will start or end or if they will.

Am I the only one that considers every rp as canon?

I always liked the wild west nature of the rpg section in that regard, competition breeds excellence and all that. But it does mean when stuff gets busy that good concepts get left at the side of the road which quite frankly is a bit sad. But costs have to be paid in order to inspire and allow others to set a path.

Heh, flying France.

I just always thought of events like these to happen in different points of time from a character's perspective, and always finding a niche to nestle into depending on how the writer wants to interpret it according to whoever or whatever they RP as.

Saying Warsman invading France during the third part of Cataclysm is a hassle, but saying it came after is easier and more believable.

@timesiphon: most treat all or almost all as cannon. It's more an issue of time of said RPGs I think

@warsman: shit happens I try not to dis users or events but thought it a good example to make a point

That's usually my approach, just semi organize it when needed

@dragonfang_:

That was DC's fault, lol. I'm not ashamed of the flooding the capital though, that was fun lol.

Organization would be nice.

My personal pizza cloning machine would also be nice.

I doubt either are likely coming in the future :P

Admittedly, I, too, would enjoy seeing a more cohesive canon. Question is, how would we decide which idea gets to be the big event of the month? A community-wide poll, perhaps, pinned to the RP board?

There would need to be a power limit for characters involved, that's for sure.

I think this change has potential, if we were to go through with it.

I'm not sure what that has to do with Open RPs, or how to limit them.

OP characters oftentimes derail stories by their very presence. It's unfortunate, but true. Even if we couldn't deny characters the right to be involved, they ought to be "nerfed" for the sake of the story. It's unfortunate, but necessary IMO. That, or you'd either have to end up no-selling a lot, or use a plot device to accommodate them. I'm not talking about powerhouses here, I'm talking about characters who can re-write reality at will, or who are literally so huge that they can step on a city. Sometimes these things detract from a story.

@exemplar: Well that is a matter that should be determined my the maker of the RP, not the "rules of the forum".

If you want someone's RP to have a power limit, ask them. If they say no, then that's it.

@_ophelia_: That's absolutely what I meant, I was just talking about the community deciding on a big open RP and having the organizer make the rules. There should be no community-based power limit, that'd stifle creativity. I'm just talking about individual RPs.

@exemplar: Good, then we are on the same page.

It wouldnt be that complicated. Two major events a month, or two every two weeks are the limit options. First come first serve. One ends another is allowed to start. Simple And ample room for events per month.

Interesting proposals, could help the vine I guess.

OP's already have the ability to set power limits in their RP's, the only case in which this is not allowed is in empire attempts, which are open to all. At least that's my understanding.

This is beginning to sound like weekly raid lockouts on WoW.

Except worse.

Like paid add-ons on videogames too...

@warsman: There's some potential here; a little more order to how big events are structured could possibly help some characters avoid getting stretched too thin, or having to choose between events when they realistically would have reasons to be involved in a number of them, or having a new event spring up and "poach" activity from an existing event.

I could also see it backfiring and actually hurting activity. When you come right down to it, the people who create big events do so when they have the time; if we start telling them that they can't launch theirs until another one finishes, we could see people just scrapping their plans entirely because they're unwilling or unable to wait. Putting a set time limit on a major event could address this concern, but it has a potential pitfall of its own, as it could cause an ongoing event that's still going strong to have to cut things short, which wouldn't be very satisfying for anyone involved in it.

@jungala:

I agree with those cons, the pros are questionable. Sure it creates some idea of "order" in such a lawless forum, but it also has the great potential of creating - DRAMA. Who does the offending and offended parties go to when they're in strife? The CoE, right? Seems like a reasonable course of action. Then they get blamed for putting queued ideas or such on the backburner and waiting a month to implement them while the users in question might have moved on to something different and all steam behind the idea is lost. Drama this drama that, users who would have had just a good time writing with each other are put on uneven terms and might not speak to each other again for a while.

On the other hand, a month is a long time, but event RPs take up a lot of time.

Limiting RP ideas is already a bad idea. Organizing them is easier said than done, but it's the better alternative. So my vote for the "two event RPs per month" thing is a resounding no.

The RPG Ideas thread comes to mind as a good start for this.

This.

@warsman: When you get down to brass tacks, I agree that the cons outweigh the pros. Yes, we have a number of large-scale events going on right now with an arguably insufficient number of active RPers to give them all the attention they may need, but which problem would you rather have: "oh no; there's so many RP's going on that I owe people a half-dozen posts," or "huh, there's nothing going on that interests me; guess I better see what's on TV, tonight?" My personal preference is the former.

Times 3.

I understand the disorder and the loss of hype for certain things due to new events, but limiting it would be putting creativity on a short leash. People would lose their reasons to continue in RPG because user x had the opportunity to do an event instead of user y himself. We would be losing possible ideas that can blossom into more interesting canon than other events that got there first. Adding to that, there is the fact that some events don't even take off, so what about that? First three days of activity and then just a downfall? Is that what we want for a whole month?

As Warsman has stated, if this limitation goes all the way to a possible voting, my vote will be a loud-and-clear no.

@jungala:

Why not just a happy medium?

RPG Ideas thread, have fun not politics, we all eat cake.

Or pie. Preferably with ice cream. Hugs and kisses for everyone.

After skimming through this.

My general rule on power levels:

Basically, it's all about contributing to the story. Before you insert a character into an event, you have to think "am I gonna make this interesting, or am I going to take away from the point? Am I going to make this not fun for everyone else?" Some high level people can be involved but take sometimes indirect roles or otherwise.

Sometimes, a foe like that can present a challenge.

Though there is a limit. Like having some galactus level entity come down on some gothic mob boss. But it can be surprisingly high. But other times I see exactly what you're talking about. The character is there but hardly makes the roleplay more interesting.

Quadruple agreement.

Here is the thing though, how do we decide what is and what is not a major event? Are we at a point where we can tell who all the "big time users" and who isn't? Like other people point out, someone can point something out and it'd flop. Or someone can have a really good idea that nobody gives a shot.

I agree with what warsman's saying.

@warsman: Hehe it's easier getting rid of roaches than politics, but I don't know if we realistically even have to go that far. We're going to have slow periods; there's just times when a lot of writers (or at least a lot of the "mover and shaker" writers) have other things they have to do. If the real issue is too many large RP's with not enough active writers to properly fill them, the best thing we can do is either try to recruit some friends to give RPing a try, or sit tight and wait until people have more free time. It's ultimately on the OP to test the waters before launching something huge; if you notice that not a lot of people are around or there's a lot of other things going on, you have to understand that you're risking your own event either not getting traction or killing the momentum of someone else's.

@jungala:

You ever try to get rid of roaches down here in East Texas? Bastards have tiny knives and roam around in packs, steal your cat if you let them.

So basically agreeing with me, cool. Limits = bad, better organization = good.

@maverick_6: i'm not reading this tundra of text uptop lol But nah, my point was missed. I never said decide what can and can't be an event, I said decide the amount of them during one period of time. That said I don't think there would need to be full restrictions on alll RPG's. Let's say a team wanted to do an RPG? No limit. But if there was an event that was open and included others, with the team as a whole also joining, then they would have to wait until the two every month limit is hit and make theirs at that point.

There's so many points of why this could be good, but I think people are saying no for the fact they see something that tells them they can't and want to fight it without seeing the positives.

• A time limitation that everyone is aware of means people will know before entering that they need to post consistently and not choose to a week later. This type of shit puts rpg's to a stop before they even get moving.
• Time limitation means faster posting which means less reaction time which means quicker responses which adds an excitement factor to an RPG.

If I felt like typing more I bet I could come up with'em. But I know the fact is there's going to be the people who think they're freedom fighters or some ish that are gonna shoot it down so why bother lol

@_the_force_: I think people are scared of this section getting too regulated. CV RPGing is so good because of how free it is, it's just the regulation that seems a little daunting I assume. I do think what you're saying makes sense personally though.

@pyrogram: I agree with that, but just limiting the events so we can keep track of them isn't really that big of a deal. I mean it's fun that we can do mostly what we want but at the same time, has anything really been gained outside of personal canon in the U, or that only some people keep in track while others don't?

I'm on the fence on canon selling on a whole anyway. On one hand you've got a great opportunity to world build as a community, on the other hand you've got to expect everyone to honor that canon or put in line those who don't, and that just seems like too high an expectation, justifiably.

@_animus_: I've always wondered how amazing RPGing was here if we managed to timeline events and canon etc. Having events organized or at least documented via some organization method means we'll be able to keep track more or something.

If it's a documentation problem, then let's start now and make a list of RPGs and work our way backwards while the current RPs are active and continue to do that until all the accepted "canon" is covered.

I'm vehemently against any sort of limits placed upon events. Organization however s sonething I whole heartedly support

@warsman: There's a section for it in the pinned canon thread, still waiting for people add the events they started...

@_animus_:

Might need to do a new state of the vine events. Things are just kind of popping up out of nowhere.