CVnU RPG Rules Discussion Thread

@the_shogun: Yes I'm burned out. It's because nothing keeps my fire lit around here anymore. This place is a ghost town. There are only a few active RP's now, and they are so similar, I can't tell where one starts and the other begins.

I have stayed in an objective position, where I have stayed on the topic of things about the site, and the rules of the site, that irk me. You are the one that has decided to make this personal. I'm not going to play into your immaturity.

I have said everything that I intended to say, and I could give a rip, what you think of me. Jealous? Of what? I am not jealous, I'm baffled. And, I no longer relate to this place. It has changed in such a way, that I no longer understand the appeal of it. I keep coming around every once in a while, to see if things have been corrected. But they never are.

I still play with individuals that are passionate about story telling, and there are still enough talented individuals around that keep me coming back. The pool water is toxic, but the swimmers keep jumping in.

I am the only one that feels this way however, so I will keep writing with the people that I am currently running stories with, and go about my business. I'll leave you alone from now on, and I won't give my honest opinion, because you don't care about honesty or opinions, anyways.

Passive aggression abounds.

@temporal_hound:

Might wanna work on your definition of passive aggression. This has been, quite entirely, the normal kind of aggression, complete with direct insults and everything.

@joygirl:

I was referring to a specific post.

@temporal_hound:

Ah. So the issue was simply that it didn't abound. >:D

@joygirl:

It abounded in that post =).

I have no problem with the rules personally, I'm relatively new here, I just do what people tell me.

@temporal_hound: Welcome! Hope to see you abound-err...around! ;)

@temporal_hound: Sadly being relatively new never really goes away. The feeling of not knowing what you're doing or where you're supposed to be is more or less permanent.

@vitus:

Hehe, thanks. I've been around for a bit now. Time Siphon, Luna/Solar Hawk, Solaris and now Temporal Hound.

But enough about life...

:P

I kind of actually think it's good that people are actually talking about this type of stuff, instead of pretending they aren't angry and everything is alright. DON'T GET ME WRONG! Things aren't that bad. Because Holy hell have I seem stuff get bad on other sights where everyone argue and stuff gets disbanded.

But things seemed a little too perfect around here to me. Figured some people had to be forcing a smile or sighing and scrolling somewhere.

As for the actual subject I can't say much being too new. Around half a year on the RPG forum and I know nothing about CV prime. Hardly know anyone really. Mostly active on the weekends because I am bogged down with stuff on the weekdays. So I tend to more screw around on the character interaction thread AKA "What does your character think of the character above you?" Since it is easy to just drop a reply on my phone...

I more or less agree with parts of what many people are saying. Place is kinda isolative to some new people. I already knew how to write sorta so I was fine. But I've seen others not so fine. People here don't generally want to teach people and some seem to have a "You have it or you don't" attitude when it comes to writing. Which isn't surprising since people have stuff to do and not the time to teach people.

But it'd be good if people were a little less derisive and also for new people to be a bit open to constructive criticism. I feel pretty horrible because I actually put someone off the forum for a few months. That's the kinda stuff you don't wanna do. If you see someone messing up. You should try to help them a little or just drop a bit of advice.

This forum doesn't come across as a d*** measuring forum like some (other sights rpgs and especially some of thr battles) are and does little to restrain creativity. Which I like. Your powers are more or less "does it allow the story to work?" Since well, in the end, that is what comics are.

Not to say I don't like powerful characters because I do. Just when that's all there is to them and there is no substance behind the character itself. Nothing interesting. No greater role for them to particularly play to contribute to making a good story.

More to the point, people definitely need to start roleplaying more and doing more stuff (Me definitely included) and not fear rejection and constructive (I would hope its constructive at least) criticism so much for some newer people or when someone does something a little...off putting for the story. I've seen it happen multiple times in the short time I've been here.

But the amount of positively and the and absence of trash talk is awesome here. Just need a little bit less keeping everything inside basically. Sort of rambling now.

If what I say sounds stupid, let me know ;)

@just_an_average_man: Nothing you ever say sounds stupid. You're the best thing to happen to this board in... since I've been here. So a few years now.

I mean that from the bottom of my black, decaying heart.

I only have two things to point out if we're going to converse upon the subject.

I've seen people judge the quality of a post based on how many paragraphs it had...that's just silly. Honestly sometimes it gets tiring trying to add extra content to a post that doesn't really need to be very long. I am roleplaying with a friend of mine in my Team's thread and since most of our posts right now are conversational, they're also fairly short. Some here would say that makes them bad...I think that's one thing that scares off new people. "Oh god I have to write like 5 paragraphs to say hello."

The other thing, I think, is that there needs to be a consistently operational team (even if it's just one person for awhile) specifically designed for new players to ease into things.

@just_an_average_man: Makes sense to me. I think a big part of the reason that I stick around is that we are more story and character-driven, but as you said, the downside is that you do need to have a minimal level of writing skill to really succeed. For my part, I can help someone get a handle on the RP scene, but I certainly don't have the time or energy to give anyone a full Composition 101 course.

Been hearing good things about you, btw.

@temporal_hound: Most people here don't actually judge a post's quality by its length. I can't remember the last time I've seen that actually used as criteria. Like I've seen people say "holy O__O That post is a novel," but the idea that longer = better...we got rid of that attitude even before Prime was over. Granted, you still get people saying "sorry my post was so short," but the response then I've always seen is "No worries! I don't care about the length" or something of that nature so mostly it sounds like individual self-consciousness. Maybe it's going on places I haven't read, but as forum-wide idea, that's long-gone.

Teams...heh, are an interesting subject.

@naamah_obyzouth: We value honesty and opinions. It's a particular brand of them that just has no clout.

Now that's just ridiculous if RPers are doing that here. Judging if a post is good based on length? That's nonsense!

HOWEVER...

For interactions, I completely agree that you shouldn't have to write five paragraphs just to say 'hi'. Interactions (IMO) are just for quick story telling, nothing major planned out, just random fun. Having to type out a six page post for those is ridiculous and it's ridiculous that people are judging interaction posts like that. or judging posts in general I should say.

For larger scale RP's that have their own thread, IMO there is a sort of need for the post to be a little longer than just five sentences. Lemme explain why... RP's that have their own thread have a specific story that is wanting to be told, sometimes closed, sometimes open and people have to bounce their posts off of each other, work with each other to complete the RP. It's difficult to write a post when all you have to work with is a single paragraph. Am I saying that single paragraph posts are horrible? NO WAY! I've seen posts that are amazing single paragraphs! Am I saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to bounce a post off a single paragraph? NO WAY! I'm just saying sometimes it makes it easier for your fellow RPer to work with your post if it's slightly longer with some details.

BUT same thing goes if your post is like ten pages long. If your post is MASSIVE NOVEL SIZE POST it makes it harder for people in the RP to read, because let's be honest, most of us are either in school, working, are married or have kids and sometimes all four! We don't have time to sit and read a novel! So people tend to overlook details (big and small) in those posts cause they are speed reading them most of time. Not to mention posts that long usually end up just ranting on a separate story all together from the RP story, which makes things even more confusing for fellow writers. Am I saying people SHOULDN'T write super long posts? NO! If that's how you right, then go you! You rock! You're awesome!

It should NEVER be the quantity that makes up the post but if you're having fun! :D If you like to write quick posts that are short and to the point, good for you! That's awesome! You do your thing woman/man! If you like to put more detail in your post and they are longer than just a page then good for you! That's awesome! You do your thing woman/man! All that matters is that YOU ARE HAVING FUN!

There used to be a team like that actually, a team for just new people. But it's difficult to keep up because a lot of times people are just passing through and are gone within a week, and there you are with a team RP and can't do anything cause half of your members are gone lol. Then there was the "Well you're not new anymore so byeeee!" thing lol when are you not considered 'new' anymore? Then you have the, who's gonna be in charge of that team? It has to be someone who doesn't mind constantly working with new people and reaching how to RP, it can be a bit overwhelming, especially if there's just one of you and say three new people you have to mentor at once. Thats why things like the mentor thread was created, so new people could jump in, get someone to help them out and start RPing :)

Am I saying it's impossible? NOPE! I think it would be awesome if someone want's to pick that up and do it for the newbies of the vine :D Just saying it's more difficult than it seems to be lol

Isn't the mentor thread now way out of date?

No idea lol I haven't been around in over a month.

@timesiphon: Yes it is. Though a few threads could use alittle update. Locations and teams thread being another as well.

LOL nobody does that anymore, at least not frequently. Not even towards the end of Prime were we judging the quality of posts based on length. We may occasionally say that certain posts belong in novels but that's usually just a way of poking fun at how long they are. I haven't seen anybody here in a long, long time measure the value or quality of a post from its length. We don't do that anymore, mano. In fact, one of the biggest things to happen to Comic Vine RPG'ing was the introduction of fast-paced in-thread interactions with short posts, which was way back in Prime. So no, nobody does that anymore but I'd like to know who you've seen do that because now I'm interested in seeing who still does that.

Because all I've seen are jokes about how long some posts can be. And though people have been praised for their posts which just happened to be long, it wasn't because of its length, it was because the posts themselves were good. They could have been short and they would have been good. When we say to people, "You should write novels", and their posts happen to be long, its not a compliment directed at the length, its a compliment directed at the quality of the posts independent of their length. We've given those compliments to short posts just as we have long posts. Nobody's obligated to write super long posts or replies to anyone. We had one great RPG'er (Psyentist) who was a good example of that. You could write the longest post in the world but if it wasn't necessary, her post would be as short as she wanted and nobody would go around saying "Oh your post is less than 5 paragraphs so its not as good as it could be". If they had, we'd find and murk that fool ;P

As for teams, teams are a complicated case. For one, they take work. A lot of it. To develop the concept behind a specific team. To create the location thread or team headquarters which is usually a very well written thread. And then comes the effort of recruiting members and maintaining the team all the while consistently coming up with RPG ideas for the team to keep people interested in it. Often times people go through the effort of creating a team etc. but then they find that most people aren't willing to join because of one reason or the other, most of those reasons are valid though. The problem with teams, or one of them, is that the responsibility of creating one always falls into the lap of veteran RPG'ers.

And the way we look at it, its that the cost of creating a team far outweighs the benefits. We expend all of this creative energy and in the end we might not even acquire any members. And even in the event that people do join, if its specifically a thread for new writers? There's an issue in that new RPG'ers here either tend to be veteran alts pretending to be new users, or they're genuinely new users but they're users who will lose interest in about a week or two, so you have all these empty slots in a team that aren't being used, and you have the team creator there, having wasted a lot of energy to get the team up. Also, returning to the cost-benefit concept, to create a team specifically for new players, that's a lot of work.

Especially because new players still aren't familiar with the rules and may not have ever RP'd before so they'd need to be mentored and while that's all well and good, what if the new user just doesn't put in the effort to improve and remains stagnant? I'm not even going to lie, I've wasted a lot of energy once mentoring someone here who just could not improve. All of that time and energy I wasted could have gone to something else. The same applies with a team for newbies. Obviously you could get those who would improve leaps and bounds but the risk of exhausting your efforts with no reward is still there. Teams have been really hard to maintain. Look up the majority of the teams that have popped up here in the last couple of years and most of them have failed, they're not very compatible with this current era. Teams have been replaced by things like location threads (Venezuela) and formerly, corporations (Like Avalon) where people would get together under a common purpose and join RPGs together and were basically teams, just not traditionally.

One thing new users should know is that if they want help, they can just ask. Like really, its that simple. When I was new here some years ago, I remember PM'ing people like Gambler and Sha and Mercy and they'd respond and give advice no problem. I think new users see some RPG'ers and feel intimidated so they don't approach them. And its understandable because this is a new environment for them, they're not familiar with it or the people in it. But a lot of us here are willing to help anyone who asks for help. We're not going to be in every thread holding every new user's hand. But if they come to us and ask, we'll gladly help with any problem they may have. If they want to write with us? Just ask. If they want tips on RP'ing? Just ask.

I'm glad you wrote this post and it made me think about the difficulties in getting started here when you are new. I've tried to make Venezuela open to newer players and be friendly and helpful, especially to the people who seem like they are on the edge of breaking in.

But sometimes I wonder what the newer players themselves want? Do they want advice on writing? Do they want advice on the 'political' side of things? Do they just want to know how to get over? Do they want a place to write with the 'big names'? Do they want to drive a storyline or would they prefer to join one already in progress?

I don't want to butt in and intrude on their way of doing things [unless that way is very disruptive]. Nor do I want to be all 'you have to write with me if you want to get anywhere' but I still want to provide a platform for the next generation.

What I'd like to know is this: What do the newer players themselves want?

I just want to be included in major storylines, that seems to be the hardest part. Even when I've been in an event I've generally felt like a sideline character and that the plot has already been figured out by the main people on the forum.

@solarius: Now I'm curious. Even as a side character I've often felt "main" in my own eyes. [Looking in comics terms, a big event is like a big event in comics, and maybe my character has one of her books be a tie-in with that event, and that's my posts.] Who are "the main people" in your eyes?

Just a curiosity; you don't have to answer.

@arquitenens:

Keep in mind I still had fun. I don't run into it as often now that I've been around for a few months. When you're new though there is a certain difficulty in really getting involved in the story with other characters. Probably a combination of not knowing the ropes and not really being known by the people involved.

Hey...what if we had a location for new people and veterans to interact directly?

@solarius: No no, that wasn't my concern - I say in the most innocuous way possible. Just the way you qualified, I almost felt like I feel like I'm being the fun-police going "you're not having fun!? You're calling us closed-off!? I'll make sure you never feel included again!" I was legit just curious about who the people were; my mind was gonna look for patterns. The feeling itself, I get; for a lot of people it's hard not feeling like "side character number ##" no matter what, even when they've been here far longer than you or me.

I'm not sure what kinda location that would be. Like what?

@arquitenens:

Oh goodness no, it wasn't anyone doing anything intentionally. It's the difficulty of getting into things when you first arrive.

It goes like this, you see a cool event and you want to join but no one really knows who you are and they're already involved in things. When you try to join you might get to interact with someone here and there, but almost never get to interact with the main story. I've found that goes away after awhile, I had a lot of on the Tokyo Empire Claim and the NYC attack.

Also I've never not had fun here. Just because I feel like when I started I could never get directly involved doesn't mean I wasn't having fun.

@solarius: Hey, don't have to tell me. I had at least an entire month devoted to failure to even get a single interaction going before people knew I had lady parts. I was practically invisible, and I even joined a team to try and remedy that! Things have changed since then and it's often easier to get interactions going, but it can be hard to just integrate with everything.

Still curious what kinda location that is. >_> I mean, if there's a concrete idea.

That was one thing that teams were great for. It was very easy to feel very included in events once a team you were on had joined them.

@ren_: Teams failed me. I hate teams. -____-

@zauberin: I LOVED teams <__<

@ren_: Wow Mercy that's the fastest response I've ever seen from you on anything ever.

@zauberin: Har har har har har

I've had mixed experiences with teams. They can definitely make it easy to get involved, but it can also take a lot more effort and energy to hold the group together, and make sure everyone has a role. When they work, they can be one of the best experiences.

*abducts and forces to be a gladiator on Battleworld*

How's that? ^_^

Thank you. I caught feelings reading this.

Yeah. Just having things exist for fights and nothing more can be sort of old after while?

Good to know they are good things!

Well, when I was new, I wanted to be basically involved.

I will also say that, as someone who moreso watched the CVnU for a bit, that it's generally difficult for people to tell what the RPG forums exactly are and where to start. Like you said, basically a sense of direction. Some want a story they can jump in and others want to make one that won't be ultimately ignored. There are even a few threads right now by a few now that seem like they could use a little help.

Being ON a team is great. Leading a team is not something I'd want to do again, whether in the current team-hostile climate or not. Gambler and MR are two of the best team-runners I've ever worked with.

It's so difficult to lead a team when you have so much IRL things going on. People expect you to not only throw them in major RP's, but to come up with ideas for RPs that involve everyone.

co-signed - but if you have alot of free time and enjoy moving parts and juggling personalities, leading a team can be highly enjoyable.

Aw man, I have a lot of thoughts about this. It's not even about what else you've got going on in real life, even if you had infinite time, it's still a really difficult undertaking. It's like wrangling kittens. You have to have a strong concept for a team, one that can stand in RPG's by itself, but also lets you do stuff going on in the main universe as a whole. You have to have enough on your roster to keep things interesting, but you can't oversaturate, and it's hard to turn people away. You have to come up with driving stories for your team, and find ways to work everybody's personality in, and give them a time to shine. Depending on how you're running a team and who you're bringing in, you also have to dedicate time to mentoring newer RPGers and helping them find their stride. You have to do all of this, while keeping your team thread on the front page (which seems weird to have it be a concern, but during the age of teams, it was actually a factor). There's just so much that goes into it that people really don't think about. I was not cut out to lead a team, not in a really driving way. Good teams...man, good teams can change the entire scape of the RPG forum. I remember when the COPs first popped up. All the existing hero teams shut down and coalesced into this one big faction. It was...crazy. Off the top of my head, Gambler, LL, Sha, MR and The Hunter/Hawk lead the best teams that I've been a part of. Sha and G have both lead multitudes, and them along with LL are also incredibly strong concept creators, with Impero, Zauby and Animus also filling that niche. And I think that it's self-evident that concepts and corporations have overtaken as teams. And they all involve very similar skillsets. The most important being follow-through. It's such a specific skillset, and one that I don't think people really think about that often.

I know I'm forgetting names, but I'm an old lady now :(

@ren_: Fortunately, I will soon be conquering the planet, rendering any team dynamics of lack thereof completely moot. ;)

@inevitable_one: I'm not too worried about you!

@mercy_: Then worry about my Adamantine Legion! >;)

Agreed!

Back to the team conversation, I agree with everything you said. I haven't been in the RP forum long enough to experience the different team variations and what it's like to see multiple groups duke it out while still being relevant or constantly active. It's not a negative trait, but a difficult task. My first team was in the VV as Lady Grimm under DC and it really gave me a great start to how things worked here. Despite only being around for a little less than 2 years, no real time has stood the test of time from the looks of it. As Envy and team leader of The Liberators, its really becoming clear how daunting it is.

@_vex_: The problem with teams is that everyone wants to be in the same one, it seems. That's just what it looks like to a newbie like me tho.

Hm. I have no problem turning someone a way if I feel they don't fit the team. Normally its because the dynamics that are going on and not actual writing style. I have no problem taking in someone new to help them better themselves because that's exactly how I became a better writer. I enjoy writing Envy with The Liberators because he's such a wounded anti-hero he fills both sides of the spectrum to the world (IMO). It's also why I love interacting with your character Apex.

@_vex_: Thank you, he's fun to write too. Someone with skewed morals is almost always enjoyable to read / write.

@jack_: As a reader, I think morals make them unpredictable, but lovable and hatable at the same time. As a writer, there is so much wiggle room.

Mmmm yes, and no. This is kind of how it appears now because there's really only enough active and dedicated RPGers to have one team at a time, unfortunately. So a cool team idea comes up, and people flock to it. For people who've been here longer and were here when teams were flourishing, it was a very different story. We had about an average of five or six active teams at a time, and all across the spectrum of morality. There was a team for every type of character you could think of, and people often had numerous accounts across different teams. Although there were a couple of teams that would accept primary accounts only.

I knew that I knew who you were!!!! God, I don't know why I couldn't remember that was your account lol. I've had an eye on you from the beginning, always been a fan of your work. CV RPG has changed and evolved a TON from when I started. The way people have post has changed, and so has the quality and the flow, and almost all for the better, I would say. Really the only thing I think we used to have that would have enriched the current environment (aside from the people) is the fact that we had enough active RPGers to have that many teams. I don't think that we're poorer for not having teams, though. There are a lot of benefits to teams, but the way things work now is great, and I would say, maybe more inclusive.