changing the RPG format and how to make something new

So I've been on here for about a month now and I can't help but notice how RPG's start off really well but then quickly sink and are given up before they reach their potential to be great stories! I joined this site because the prospects of writing alongside people with such an awesome common interest and creative minds seemed like a great digital haven to reside in, but I can't help but notice many of us give up at the first hurdle. Here, is how I've seen things go so far:

Someone makes an OOC for an RPG - ya'll are like fuck yeah I'm in let's do this - RPG is created - lengthy introductions to everyone's character ensues - people scan others posts and choose to reply to ones they like or to the people they know - segregation happens as multiple story lines which have no real plot outline unfold - whole thread becomes a mess and everyone slowly loses faith and moves on.

Sound familiar? It sounds familiar doesn't it? I knew it! Right, well this is no one's fault I truly think everyone in this site is fantastic and I've loved reading your bios blah blah blah big fan, so here it is; how do we tackle the failing RPG and create something that we can all contribute to and successfully finish? Well I think I've got it - we actually give something an end before it has begun!

Check this shit heroes and heroines; when an author plans to write a story, there is typically 3 things they like to do:

1. They plan the ENDING. If you haven't got an ending, you haven't got a story as far as I'm concerned!

2. They plan their stories in the form of (typically) 3 or 4 acts. First act would usually sit around the beginning and the first disaster. Following that comes act 2, further disaster and revelations, then finally act 3 which is the climax and ending to the story.

So how do we adopt this into RPG? Why I think I may just have the answer kids.

First off, in an RPG OOC discussion, we all discuss how the story will go in the form of acts. The creator is in charge and has final say but everyone has to come to an agreement on how to achieve the end of the first act. This should give us all a chance to conform to a fluid and understandable storyline that doesn't get over the top or lose its focus.

One of the rules here would be a limit on word count. I'm not suggesting this because I think some of you go on too much (maybe a little bit) but I do believe that if we kept it simple and focused more on story line than our characters in general and limited the whole 'superbatguard thought blah and said blah' and changed it to a 'the world was changing, ALL of the superheroes gathered blah blah' then we'd be able to have a more solid story unfolding, right? - okay, so I didn't really make much sense there, but what I'm trying to get at is, the more we focus on each other, the more interested we will be in reading each others posts and really collaborating with one another! Does that make sense? I bet that makes a bit more sense. I knew it.

Once the RPG has started, everyone has to take the time to read each others posts and be sure not to over step any mark, creating a rift in the plot. The focus would be controlled dialogue and undersranding that there is a goal that we all have to help each other to achieve! The act has to reach a certain point where we've all contributed and then we return to the OOC to discuss the second act and tell each other how brilliant we all are. Well done guys, you go dr. Superbatguard man! The creator will then initiate act 2 which will go the same way as 1 but with more action and a twist (ooooo I like a twist) then it's back to the OOC and then it's the 3rd and final act, the cataclysmic finale, the grand design climaxing wildly all over your screens.

The thing is, I love this shit. And I think a new RPG format may actually allow us to once more see a story to the end. Anyway enough from me, what do you all think? Am I onto something here? What do you think could benefit RPG's? In the words of Frasier Crane, I'm listening.

*Update* - many may consider the RPG's to be fine as they are and I assure those who do that I mean no offense; this is in fact just an opinion that I find others share. Please still feel free to share your opinion :)

@atlantic_hero:

To me part of the issue seems to be that a fairly simple story (bad guys bust out of Arkham... I mean Bedlam) turns into a huge mega story with all of the things. Huge mega stories are great, but we may want to focus on them as their own thing and keep the small stuff small.

One of the problems is a lack of leveling. You can have a mostly street level RP going, and all of a sudden someone on Thanos' level shows up. All of a sudden, the threat is bigger, the stakes are higher, and everyone is outclassed.

@atlantic_hero: the largest problem on this site is popularity, if ur popular, people will reply to u, but if you suck even if u have good idea's(me) instead of people commenting or OH GOD HERE WE GO "investing time" into helping the person out or along those lines, hell even giving it a shot in the dark, but no, i originally was never going to come back here cuz of this BS but im a fighter i dont like giving up so easily, i might not know jack shit from comic i grew up with the cinematic movies and shows thats all i know, and being originally a anime fan then comic books, im left with the short end of the stick with 90% of my idea's!

yes i suck at spelling and punctuation, i know that, hell i thought i do better with Dragon Naturally Speaking but nope, just mostly spelling, seems its not enough, or i dont have that "jaz" or something, still i try, and try and try, but im at the point now where i dont give a fucking shit on my detailed interactions or descriptions of situations since noone even bothers on most my writing anyway, hell give me a good reason why i should stay in this decaying RPG forum spot and maybe i might stay, i invested wayyy to much time in nothing already for this site, and if ur wondering no i dont care for popularity i originally came here for my idea's and work to not only get noticed but to pass my idea's on, bah, fat chance now, i can see these RPG forums never changing anyway, ill stay for a week nothing changes im out not even having fun anymore, and not going back to animevice since everyone over there is ether an asshole or troll so ya, thanx CV!

You guys have both hit the nail on the head - @solarius, this is why I think reducing the entire thread into an act with a goal already outlined can stop a mixture of big and small and will give everyone a focus that won't begin to, er, wobble haa and @Jack_ - dude that is a great point, maybe what needs to be defined in the OOC is whose characters are compatible with the story itself; the power grid has been a big thing on here, maybe setting a power grid that defines who can play would work? Integrating all tiers of heroes would revolve more around the story itself and catering for all, bad guys having to be NPC's who consist of both street level and thanos level bad guys which require us all to team up - I think a bigger issue here would be opening up a story that villain viners can be a part of - but then that's what the OOC would be for, planning and structure for everyone

For me, it's usually the amount of time waiting for someone to reply in a situation. Everyone looses there patience .

Also, planning a story line should be the basics of any piece of writing.

I have trouble with deadlines. That's what kills my RPGs.

@mryashimora: absolutely understand where you are coming from pal and I've actually really liked your idea for the sci-fi epic combating the demi gods dude, I don't believe in popularity winning over creativity, and I certainly don't believe in condemning someone for their grammar, what I do believe is that the RPG format itself needs to be completely re-worked - it's not enough just putting a great idea out there and leaving it open, I truly think that everyone needs to take the time to focus on a project and finish what they start before they start it, this shit takes a lot of planning and everyone has such fantastic ideas, I just think the state this site is in is like can over grown haircut - it doesn't just need a trim, it needs a new style that everyone likes! I for one really think it can be turned around :)

By the way, you all will have to forgive me if I don't get back to you straight away, I'm on my phone and in work! I know, I'm a bad ass.

Activity was actually okay until Bugmageddon hit. Suddenly posts were disappearing, people were getting ejected from PMs, and the site itself kept jumping six hours back in time. A lot of people got frustrated and just dropped everything, leading to the ghost town you see now. They still haven't (to my knowledge) addressed the post-eating bug, so people are hesitant to get back into things.

As to what's being proposed, that could work...for some RPs and some writers. What I do enjoy about this forum is the wide range of writing styles, and some folks (myself included) would find that kind of formatting too restrictive. But hey, if you wanna give it a go, best of luck, and you find a group that it works for and you all have a good time, awesome.

@atlantic_hero: I think a big reason is that you joined up at a bad time. I've been on the site for about 1 1/2 year(s) now and noticed it always gets slow around bug holidays.

On the other hand, you make a good point with lack of enthusiasm. An issue that is very common when it comes to RP ideas is this, "Oh, idk if my character would do something like that." Or, "That doesn't seem like my characters style.

Instead of people creating a plot point on why they would do somthing, or even making a temp character for the RP, they exclude themselves from the start.

I think that, as much as planning, motivation is an issue. Very few non-event RP's get any acknowledgement or respect, so if you aren't conquering a city or killing all the mutants, then chances are your stories and characters will ultimately mean nothing to anyone but you. Not a lot there to incite activity.

I know this is off topic.. but what happened to the color scheme?
Where are the little buttons to switch from white to black?
I miss my buttons... ):

@mastermouse: Put your mouse (your computer mouse, hehe) over your character av, the one up in the right-hand corner. It should be at the bottom-left of the drop-down menu.

@cosmosis: Ahah!
Thankyou very much!
Now, are you someone I know, or someone who came on while I was away? :P

@mastermouse: Nordok/Inner_Demon alt. And you are very welcome. Good to see you back!

@cosmosis:Hello you!
Thankyou, glad to be back. :)

@Cosmosis and @_envy_ I think I know what you're talking about, I've noticed a lot of issues surrounding the site itself and the bug issue - from what I can gather it is something a lot of us are willing to grit our teeth through haa - as far as it goes with your point Cosmosis, I feel there needs to be a more tolerable and accepting community rather than making people who haven't honed their ability with creative writing as much as others feel like they can't participate and the same goes the other way round; people shouldn't think themselves too good to join in. I think everyone is capable of developing and adapting themselves and rather than seeing it as a restriction, maybe it would be better perceived as a challenge? I know when I write on here, I write to integrate with others and not for myself, I'd rather keep the story afloat than satisfy my own writing agenda and I have a lot of respect for everyone's writing style regardless of grammar

(please don't feel as though I've just accused you of anything there! Reading that back it can sound like I'm insinuating that I am!)

The aim of this thread by the way guys is that I would like as much input as possible before I put together a tester RPG and if any of you are interested in this idea and experiment then PM me and we'lol further discuss everything there :) I really do appreciate all of you getting back to me on this you're all awesome

@mastermouse:

@lady_grimm:GRIMMSY!
Hai. (>'u'<)

Personally I am not a big fan of "planning" a rpg. This is rpg after all and not the fanfic-forum. For me the dynamic and fun of rpgs comes from sudden twists and turns in the storyline that no one foresaw. It makes you to think quick and be on your feet instead of just following a pre-laid-out path and cladding said path into fancy words. Of course rpg is also about ego, in all forms of writing you can't exclude ego (there is a nice Henry Rollins commentary on the topic if you find the time), but focusing on a single person's idea how something should be done sounds like even more ego business for me.

I don't mind if nobody kisses my behind after I post in a rpg, have a look at my posts as Honor Avenger in Bedlam Breakout. As long as I have fun it is okay for me. I can't interact with everybody, that is simply too much and the posts would become a non-readable mess of exaggerated proportions. Instead I look for some people I want to write with and open a separate storyline.Whoever wants to enter can ask and in like 95% of all cases I won't say no. Diversifying is important for a rpg's success, be it as short lived as it may be. If you don't like what others are doing ignore it and don't read their posts. You don't have to be in everything. Have fun. If you are doing it for recognition or praise you're probably writing out of the wrong motivation.

I think that may seem like whats going on, but it isn't true. There are always RPs directed to just avoid that. Pyro once made an Academy IC that would allow new comers to RP with Vets but it was shut down because (Not naming anyone) a small group of the newcomers started problems not in line with the rules both IC and OOC. Newcomers need to check the "I want to RP" thread more often because i know the vets post there or just as welcoming via PM.

@mastermouse: lol dork

@lady_grimm: my feelers):

@blastwave: *Kisses*

@mr-teddy: *hugs*

@atlantic_hero: No offense taken, certainly. The site can seem a bit cliquish at times. I don't think it's anything intentional, or at least malicious; people just naturally gravitate towards groups of friends they enjoy writing with, and stay in their comfort zone. That's just human nature. Solid writing skill is also not a guarantee of success; I've seen some beautifully-crafted RP threads just drop off the radar with nary a pep.

Silhouette_ has a stong point; certain kinds of RPs just do better than others. Sci-fi, for example, has always been a hard sell around here, regardless of how well it's presented. Getting people to write in your thread is really about knowing the zeitgeist.

And sometimes, the stars simply don't align. Not so long ago, there was a pretty epic war brewing between rival factions of the HFC, but then the bugs hit, a number of the major players left for various reasons, and the whole thing was left by the side of the road like an old shoe.

People on here love their concepts, love them to death. Give them a good story idea, a nice story outline, and they're hooked. But once it comes time to put in the work, to make the finer points of that story actually happen, people end up bailing.

Any RPG I've ever planned, I did what's mentioned here. I made a thorough outline; beginnings, big developments, and endings all planned out.. From my experience here, I feel pretty confident in saying that most of the RPG creators do this too to some extent. I'm fairly sure Sha knows what's happening next in Beyond 2033 just as Honor Avenger knows where she's going next with Bedlam Breakout. But in the end it all comes down to one thing: investment in a story, and the wherewithal to see it through to its completion.

One easy solution I see to this current problem is for the creators of these popular RPGs to limit the number of people that can join the story. In doing this, stories won't get too convoluted, random posters won't be coming in, posting once or twice and then leaving, and most importantly, everyone will be able to read everyone else's post instead of half-assedly skimming through them without actually appreciating the writing.

RPG creators: people who post in your stories want to feel like they matter. No one likes posting in an RPG and not even getting a little bit of feedback on their hard work. So if you invite people to an RPG (and making an RPG "Open" is an invitation to all), be ready to acknowledge all their hard work and respond accordingly. If you make an RPG Open just so you can say you created the biggest RPG on the Vine, don't be surprised when it slowly and painfully starts dying off.

Posters: creators whose stories you're apart of want you to bring something worthwhile to the table. No one wants to hear about how your powers work on an atomic level for three posts. There's a reason I'm not a chemistry major. If you write a bunch of introspective filler that has no bearing on the story, that's all good as long as you're happy. Just don't be surprised when you get no recognition and end up feeling marginalized. And if you join an RPG, do it knowing that you're committing to it until it's over.

I think if we keep this all in mind and try to put our egos aside just a little bit, we can all have fun here.

agreed

ya agreed

I totally see where you're coming from Blastwave and your posts as Honor Avenger by the way are fantastic - I've really enjoyed them in the Bedlam RPG, but I see Bedlam Breakout as an example of how it seems to suddenly break off into these epic different tangents and before you know it, it can appear very chaotic. I love the idea of the free writing element and as far as recognition and praise goes, I think you may have taken that part a little too seriously haa, however it should be acknowledged that some people do like to hear it, it can inspiring to know that people actually enjoy your contributions. As far as it goes with ego, ego doesn't come into so much for me - regarding the perspective of planning essentially sucking out the element of surprise and not being as fun, I think that although maybe it's not for everyone, a lot of people may enjoy the collaborative part; twists and turns can still happen that would keep you on edge, it's just a minor control measure that a lot of people may enjoy like you do just doing your own thing. I just want to establish that maybe a new form of rpg may open a lot more avenues for some people and the peoples opinion really matters regarding this :) I see where you're coming from though and it's good that there are people who enjoy the current form of RPG which only serves to show that it's obviously not failing as far as others are concerned (I'll change the name incase it's offensive)

LadyGrimm That academy idea sounded really good and it's a shame that that was never kept up :( it's a shame a group of newbies ruined that as I would've really enjoyed participating with some old-timers xP

I think I still have a lot to learn about this site and its users! It's really interesting and I want to thank everyone who haven't agreed with me for not jumping down my throat about it! It doesn't just aid developing a different type of RPG for other people to enjoy but it's also a great way to get to know people and understand how everything works

@atlantic_hero: Champions INTL started off a tad bit unorganized. What's your opinion on that? The conversations and conflicts seem all over the place lol.

@doctor_wheatley: Ahh I think it's all a learning curve there pal. I'm new to team threads but I think they will tie in together quite well in time! I think it's definitely something that has a lot of potential and if we all talk about it in the PM as it goes then we'll definitely get somewhere with it - that's the sort of thing I mean by planning, the idea for it is great but with absolutely no planning everyone just kind of stumbled along and tripped over each other a bit haha but yeah I do think it will work out eventually!

This makes for an interesting discussion topic. May offer some thoughts once I can get myself together.

@schlampe: well please feel free to! All thoughts and opinions are welcome

I need to work on composition and compressing anyway.

Don't mind me. Just ghosting around. Managing to get a little access...

@wearelegion: Not to point you out or anything but I feel this was what happened to WoD. There wasn't really much coherent story and I didn't feel there was much point in it.

@darksider95: Also feel this was what happened with chernoboyl. Sounded like a real interesting. But then mostly it seemed like just a mish mash of just general random stuff....happening.

@Atlantic_hero: @honor_avenger: @jack_

I agree with Honor. I don't like things being too severely scripted.

I agree and disagree with Jack. And my characters are powerful as f***.

Generally. It depends on two things of if your character is involved. Having a good concept. And then seeing how to apply it to the bigger picture.

You have to consider. Sometimes having a character who is more powerful can help turn the tides and shift the story into an interesting place. Providing something to be overcome.

At the same time. You have someone who punches planets apart, hard to involve them really in most stories. Some too powerful characters can also generally ruin plots/easily solve problems on the hero spectrum. Or just bully people in the villain sector.

You have to think about your character's impact on the story. @Warsman I found pretty interesting in Bedlam. When I was going to get involved before going on hiatus I felt it would have been interesting to see my character meet him and DC, win or lose.

To mention @Last_guardian I have to agree. Even with me having some op characters lol. No one really wants to read about you feeling yourself and showing off for the whole time.

I actually find it fun, interesting and challenging to make logical weaknesses for your high level characters that street levelers can exploit. Weaknesses are fun to make imo. (Never really mentioned beacon is vulnerable to high grade artillery/tank/anti tank grade weapons. But mostly immune to energy stuff) (being hit by trucks and trains) (being able to be thrown by regular people)

But. Another thing I see with powerful characters is having some cool powers and everything.

But people lacking substance with that character. Making them interesting beyond just their abilities.

You don't have to describe a history or their personality. Indeed, I feel like describing the personality leads to your character getting off on the wrong foot sometimes or make you feel like you have to "adhere" to it.

Kind of like how @joygirl described it. I find it best to let the character mostly "organically" and dynamically develop.

But overall. Where characters are concerned. Just think of the bigger picture. Will your character make the story more interesting?

That's all I have to say. Sorry for errors. On mobile. Cheers!

@blastwave: you basically covered my thoughts on the matter

The best part in most forms of entertainment is the twists(in RPG games also the choices). In an RPG game or a movie you don't see it coming and then you get excited. Because we're the writers the surprise for us comes from other writers. If you know so and so is going to die then it's no shock when they do. If you know the baddies will win this fight to set up a sequel you don't care, least not as much. However when suddenly the amount of users on the bad tip the scales and escape you suddenly are invested "like that was cray and we must stop them".

A little planing I'd encourage but not much. As the best part of the RPG scene is the spontaneity