Why Space Warfare May Never Happen and Other Scifi Myths

Space War: Really hard because nothing goes boom in space. You light a nuke off and you won't get a massive explosion because there is no air to create shock waves; nor any to sustain fire for long.

Manuverabilty: A real pain. Planets move. They ARE not stationary. And if you do not fly in a way so that you will line up with a planet's orbit, you will waste unnecessary fuel. Assuming you had unlimited fuel you could care less about that, but I don't think we will ever have unlimited fuel.

Warp Drive: If you went faster than the speed of light, how on earth are you going to pick up anything on your forward sensors? I know space is big and you probably won't hit anything, but you just might if your going that fast. Remember planets move, you would be flying blind until you reversed your engines to slow down! Communication waves at best travel at the speed of light. Anything hitting your ship will be like a bullet at that speed. Actually worse, stuff would probably go right through.

No Stealth Whatsoever: Any spaceship will be picked up by sensors because they all generate heat. You have seen how much we can pick up with our satellites today, a scifi species could detect even more.

Combat: Basically you may as well use giant rocks, because explosives won't work anyway.The only way they would be useful at all would be if they ONLY detonated once they penetrated an enemy spacecraft. If there's air in there, there will be a boom; So guided missiles could be effective, as well as lasers.

But Why: Because planets are always moving, there is no way to really lay claim to territory, saying this part of space is yours. Cause guess what? Wait a while and the spot where your precious solar system was will be empty. Solar systems move too! The only valid reason for war would be to assault planets. In space combat is too cumbersome and weapons are not very effective. Plus everyone will know your coming from miles away, there is no element of surprise.

Granted: If you had FTL drive, maybe you could slow down right in front of a planet and surprise it. But going that fast, chances are you'd miss it. unless you timed everything in advance.

This thread is incorrect.

We've all seen Star Wars. Space warfare can and will happen.

Minigun doesn't believe in space warfare like MasterJohn doesn't believe in sexual lubricant.

We'll find a way.

Before you say anything is impossible in the future remember there was a point in time when people thought it was impossible to sail around the world, there was a time when people thought it was impossible to fly and there was a time when people thought it was impossible to go to the moon. Point is just because something seems unlikely now doesn't mean it'll never happen.

@InnerVenom123: LOL

 @minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

Minigun doesn't believe in space warfare like MasterJohn doesn't believe in sexual lubricant.

Wait. What?

This thread makes me so sad.

Let's be realistic guys. Asteroid fields are huge. I do not see why any race would need to keep the whole field to themselves. Plus it is a lot less expensive to avoid war, and there are lots of places in space to mine stuff besides asteroids. Much of the stuff on Earth can be found elsewhere. Now if those asteroids are made of pure gold, then maybe they would care. But even then, protecting an entire asteroid field from other races who want to mine it would be a pain, assuming the other race had similar technology.

Space Warfare. One can only dream.

Nukes in space cause a lot of heat and radiation. The radiation would kill you, eventually. The heat would require you to be fairly close, because in outer space heat does not dissipate well. At least that is the understanding I got from looking online. A human body in space will not freeze immediately because the heat from the body takes time to dissipate. You would lose consciousness in 15 seconds and be surely dead in 2 minutes or less. But you would not be frozen. That would take a while.

I didn't know that humans won't freeze in space. I figured it would be cold out there and it would happen eventually. As for the nukes, I acknowledge they are dangerous even in outer space. However if a race is advanced enough they will be able to shield their ship from the radiation with special hull plating anyway. The heat would be the only remaining issue, which you could avoid if you had enough time; thrusting in the opposite direction while hauling as fast you can.

Warfare with nukes would mostly dangerous I think because of the radiation. The range of the radiation would go a lot farther than on Earth, which means that battle sites would be filled with radiation. Of course the easiest solution would be to make radiation proof hulls on ships, which leaves battle options down to heat, missiles, and any projectiles you wanna shoot.

Asteroids hitting earth? We would be goners, cause the nuke will not do the damage necessary in space. Granted they will work well on spacecraft assuming they do not have any countermeasures to counter them.

@lorbo said:

Space War: Really hard because nothing goes boom in space. You light a nuke off and you won't get a massive explosion because there is no air to create shock waves; nor any to sustain fire for long.

Manuverabilty: A real pain. Planets move. They ARE not stationary. And if you do not fly in a way so that you will line up with a planet's orbit, you will waste unnecessary fuel. Assuming you had unlimited fuel you could care less about that, but I don't think we will ever have unlimited fuel.

Warp Drive: If you went faster than the speed of light, how on earth are you going to pick up anything on your forward sensors? I know space is big and you probably won't hit anything, but you just might if your going that fast. Remember planets move, you would be flying blind until you reversed your engines to slow down! Communication waves at best travel at the speed of light. Anything hitting your ship will be like a bullet at that speed. Actually worse, stuff would probably go right through.

No Stealth Whatsoever: Any spaceship will be picked up by sensors because they all generate heat. You have seen how much we can pick up with our satellites today, a scifi species could detect even more.

Combat: Basically you may as well use giant rocks, because explosives won't work anyway.The only way they would be useful at all would be if they ONLY detonated once they penetrated an enemy spacecraft. If there's air in there, there will be a boom; So guided missiles could be effective, as well as lasers.

But Why: Because planets are always moving, there is no way to really lay claim to territory, saying this part of space is yours. Cause guess what? Wait a while and the spot where your precious solar system was will be empty. Solar systems move too! The only valid reason for war would be to assault planets. In space combat is too cumbersome and weapons are not very effective. Plus everyone will know your coming from miles away, there is no element of surprise.

Granted: If you had FTL drive, maybe you could slow down right in front of a planet and surprise it. But going that fast, chances are you'd miss it. unless you timed everything in advance.

1. Super nova's go boom in space. We could create guns that send off mini nova's at enemy ships.

2. I'm sure our navigation systems can account for moving targets and gravity.

3. If we can make matter move faster than light then we should be able to make energy move faster than light too. They are one in the same.

4. I'm sure we can create technology which masks our signatures.

5. Missiles with penetrating heads could do the trick. Or like number 1.

6. We claim the planet/solar system/galaxy and the relative space around it. territory doesn't have to be stationary either.

7. time and planning is a big part of any war craft. it's nothing new to humanity.

"Space War: Really hard because nothing goes boom in space. You light a nuke off and you won't get a massive explosion because there is no air to create shock waves; nor any to sustain fire for long."

Ok, there is a few things wrong with this point:

1. No, space warfare is not "really hard". Nuclear devices are still highly effective, the effect is just different than what you get when it goes off inside the atmosphere.

2. Things like Railguns, would be extremely effective in 'space war', a lot more effective than they are/would be inside the atmosphere(even with our current level of technology, we can build railguns).

"Manuverabilty: A real pain. Planets move. They ARE not stationary. And if you do not fly in a way so that you will line up with a planet's orbit, you will waste unnecessary fuel. Assuming you had unlimited fuel you could care less about that, but I don't think we will ever have unlimited fuel."

Fusion reactor or anti-matter reactor. Either one would give practically unlimited fuel. And if we are talking about a point in time where we have developed Faster Than Light technology, then it's not really a stretch that we would have one of those two as well.

"Warp Drive: If you went faster than the speed of light, how on earth are you going to pick up anything on your forward sensors? I know space is big and you probably won't hit anything, but you just might if your going that fast. Remember planets move, you would be flying blind until you reversed your engines to slow down! Communication waves at best travel at the speed of light. Anything hitting your ship will be like a bullet at that speed. Actually worse, stuff would probably go right through."

Wait... We have FTL capability, but not sensors, or communication to go along with it? This is getting more and more stupid with every point.

Not to mention the fact that you haven't given any information on the method of traveling FTL. Most methods of FTL, in scifi and theoretical methods, could all be used for FTL communication as well(as well as sensors).

"No Stealth Whatsoever: Any spaceship will be picked up by sensors because they all generate heat. You have seen how much we can pick up with our satellites today, a scifi species could detect even more."

Yea, not so much. It's true that with our current level of technology, spaceships would get picked up by sensors, but not because of heat generation. Even without current level of technology, we are capable of shielding heat emissions.

And if we are at a technological level where we are capable of FTL travel, then chances are that we have also developed more advanced methods of shielding ourselves from detection.

"Combat: Basically you may as well use giant rocks, because explosives won't work anyway.The only way they would be useful at all would be if they ONLY detonated once they penetrated an enemy spacecraft. If there's air in there, there will be a boom; So guided missiles could be effective, as well as lasers."

Not entirely correct.

1. You make "giant rocks" seem completely useless. But if they are fired at high enough speeds(like, from a railgun), they would be extremely effective in space warfare. Comets/meteors are just giant rocks, and one of those caused the extinction of the dinosaurs on earth. Imagine what it would do, hitting a spaceship.

2. While it's true that conventional explosives would be largely ineffective, nuclear devices would still be extremely effective in space warfare. The effect would(as I already pointed out) just be different from the effect of a nuclear device going off inside the atmosphere.

"But Why: Because planets are always moving, there is no way to really lay claim to territory, saying this part of space is yours. Cause guess what? Wait a while and the spot where your precious solar system was will be empty. Solar systems move too! The only valid reason for war would be to assault planets. In space combat is too cumbersome and weapons are not very effective. Plus everyone will know your coming from miles away, there is no element of surprise."

Of course there is a way to lay claim to territory. It's the same way that we can give names to solar systems, galaxies, clusters, etc. A "territory" would not be a specific 'area' of random space, it would be a solar system, or a star group, or a galaxy(or specific part of a galaxy), a cluster, etc. and the space immediately surrounding it.

Look at scifi universes as a great example of this. In Star Trek, the Klingon has their territory, etc. In Star Wars, the Hutt have their territory, the Empire has their territory, the Chiss have their territory, etc. etc.

And it would be very easy to have an element of surprise, if we have FTL capabilities. It's just a matter of calculating the travel time, when plotting in the route. You turn off the FTL drives/reverse the engines to slow down/etc. and violá, you've seemingly appeared out of nowhere, and can start bombarding the enemy. Or you can simply fire away at them from a few lightyears away, with huge projectile Railguns. The enemy will never know what hit them.

Alright guys...this ends it for me. If you can make energy go FTL, what would even be the point of space war? With that kind of power, you could do lots of damage without even going to a space battle. Just imagine the damage you would create if you shot a stream of deadly radiation at FTL across space towards other planets or ships. Frankly, by the powers you guys enable your theories with, you make your very tech outdated.

@lorbo said:

Alright guys...this ends it for me. If you can make energy go FTL, what would even be the point of space war? With that kind of power, you could do lots of damage without even going to a space battle. Just imagine the damage you would create if you shot a stream of deadly radiation at FTL across space towards other planets or ships. Frankly, by the powers you guys enable your theories with, you make your very tech outdated.

You're the one that enabled FTL technology with your initial post.

@lorbo said:

Warp Drive: If you went faster than the speed of light, how on earth are you going to pick up anything on your forward sensors? I know space is big and you probably won't hit anything, but you just might if your going that fast. Remember planets move, you would be flying blind until you reversed your engines to slow down! Communication waves at best travel at the speed of light. Anything hitting your ship will be like a bullet at that speed. Actually worse, stuff would probably go right through.

If you can make something as big as a space ship(or even a person) go faster than the speed of light, then you would have been able to do the same for energy, for at least a few years. That's how technological research and progress in the real world works.

First the initial hypothesis is made(moving faster than light, is possible). It is tested(through the simplest application of the hypothesis, i.e. getting energy, or individual molecules/atoms to move faster than light) and peer-reviewed(several scientists across the world, test it), and then(when it has been proven) it becomes a scientific theory.

At this point, we are still (at the very least)a few years away from actually getting space ships, or actual people, moving FTL. But we already have energy/molecules/atoms moving FTL. This means, that we already have the basic tools for FTL sensors and FTL communication, years before we have actual FTL travel.

The only thing I(and at least a few others) have actually done, is point out that your initial point is pretty much pure bullshit, and that you, quite obviously, don't know what you're talking about. And point out the, obvious, flaws in your initial post.

A long running debate in my own mind is the difference between arrogance and confidence. Here are two definitions:

An arrogant person only feels smart if someone else feels stupid. Their sense of themselves depends on thinking less of someone else. They insist on correcting other people’s grammar or showing them their flaws, as it’s the only way they can feel an approximation of confidence. Arrogance is about intent: its when ability (or perceived ability) is used to look down on others.

A confident person feels competent from the inside out. They use their talents to genuinely try to be of use, or to succeed at the task at hand. They might seek external validation, but they don’t depend on it to define their sense of their ability or nature.

In some cases an arrogant person may have more skill than a confident person, but the confident person will tend to wield whatever abilities they have with more calm control than an arrogant person can.

What do you think?

Not my words, but I think I have said enough.

@lorbo

Space War: Really hard because nothing goes boom in space. You light a nuke off and you won't get a massive explosion because there is no air to create shock waves; nor any to sustain fire for long.

First off, why would anybody use nukes in space warfare, when there are better and less expensive weapons available?

Secondly, if somebody did choose to use nukes rather than the alternative, they could still be effective, they would just have to be used slightly different than how they are used in planetary based warfare.

Manoeuvrability: A real pain. Planets move. They ARE not stationary. And if you do not fly in a way so that you will line up with a planet's orbit, you will waste unnecessary fuel. Assuming you had unlimited fuel you could care less about that, but I don't think we will ever have unlimited fuel.

First off, what you're talking about here isn't manoeuvrability, it's fuel consumption. Manuverability is how easily the space ships will move around, which would be a function of how their various engines work and/or are placed.

Secondly, to address the point you bring up. It would be relatively easy to setup a system that would minimize or completely remove the fuel issue, even just with the technology at our current disposal. Using radiation to power the spaceship, rather than fossil fuels, and using alternative means of propulsion rather than rocket engines, would be one way of doing it.

Warp Drive: If you went faster than the speed of light, how on earth are you going to pick up anything on your forward sensors?

If we're capable of moving at warp speeds, then we should, logically, have sensors capable of operating at those as well.

However, if that is not the case, one way of dealing with this issue could be to send out unmanned drones on return micro-jumps, having them scout an area a few light-years ahead, then returning with information about the area, ensuring that we can make the light-speed jump safely, rinse and repeat.

Granted we wouldn't be able to move very fast, and we would likely lose some drones in the process, but we would have the same information, as if we had sensors capable of scanning objects light-years away.

I know space is big and you probably won't hit anything, but you just might if your going that fast. Remember planets move, you would be flying blind until you reversed your engines to slow down!

This is very true, however most planets and other large objects move in a fairly predictable path, as such even just using our current technology, it would be fairly easy to plot a safe path for warp travel, several light-years away.

Communication waves at best travel at the speed of light.

If we're capable of warp travel, then we are capable of communicating at warp speed, if nothing else then by sending couriers.

No Stealth Whatsoever: Any spaceship will be picked up by sensors because they all generate heat.

Heat emissions are a problem, but there are several ways of dealing with it.

One relatively simple way would be to capture the heat, rather than send it out continously, and then vent it when the ship is near a warm object, like a planet or a star.

You have seen how much we can pick up with our satellites today, a scifi species could detect even more.

A sci-fi species would likely have other more advanced ways of detecting us, as such worrying about our heat signature would be pointless.

Combat: Basically you may as well use giant rocks, because explosives won't work anyway.

first off, explosives would work, they would just have to be used apropriately for a space battle, rather than trying to use them as we would in planetary warfare.

Secondly, giant rocks, with sufficient force behind them, could easily be a viable weapon, though it would have to be for a battle we prepare for, rather than a sudden encounter with an enemy.

The only way they would be useful at all would be if they ONLY detonated once they penetrated an enemy spacecraft. If there's air in there, there will be a boom; So guided missiles could be effective, as well as lasers.

Explosives could be used to shield our heat emission from the enemy, and to send various objects (meteors, space debris etc.) towards them.

But Why: Because planets are always moving, there is no way to really lay claim to territory, saying this part of space is yours.

Why would anybody lay claim to a part of space, rather than the planets and/or solar systems that contain the resources we are interested in?

Cause guess what? Wait a while and the spot where your precious solar system was will be empty. Solar systems move too!

Which is why we would lay claim to the solar system, rather than the space the solar system inhabits, just like we lay claim to the land on a planet, rather than the area where the planet is currently, which then vanishes as the planet moves around in its orbit.

The only valid reason for war would be to assault planets.

Not completely true, if we encountered an alien species, there are several reasons for why we could end up in a war against them, xenophobia, religion etc, but I will agree that expanding our territory, taking control over planets that are either capable of sustaining life, or rich enough on resources to make mining worthwhile would most likely be the main reason for a war.

In space combat is too cumbersome and weapons are not very effective.

The weapons we are currently using, are too cumbersome, that is true, however they haven't been optimised for space warfare, they have been optimised for planetary warfare.

If we were to engage in space warfare, chances are we would develop weapons suited for that purpose, we are if nothing else, extremely inventive in finding ways of hurting and/or killing other people.

Plus everyone will know your coming from miles away, there is no element of surprise.

I already covered the heat emission issue earlier, however if the alien race we're fighting has advanced sensor systems, then we would change our tactics to combat that, just as we have changed our tactics against enemies who have some sort of advantage over us in a planetary conflict.

Equipping meteors with warpdrives and sending them on a collisison course with their planet would be a fairly simple way of combating their sensor systems, they might be capable of seeing it lightyears away, but a large enough meteor, moving at ftl speeds, would be basically impossible to stop.

Granted: If you had FTL drive, maybe you could slow down right in front of a planet and surprise it.

As i said earlier, Unmanned drones to plot out a safe path, along with algorythms to predict the movement of planetary objects (which we already possess) would enable us to make warp jumps relatively safely.

But going that fast, chances are you'd miss it. unless you timed everything in advance.

Given that we already possess algorithms that are capable of predicting the movement of various objects through space, be they planetary or smaller, we should be able to plot a course from planet A to planet B without any major problems, even taking planetary drift, and the movement of the solar system/galaxies into consideration.

@InnerVenom123 said:

Minigun doesn't believe in space warfare like MasterJohn doesn't believe in sexual lubricant.

So Minigun thinks space warfare is a sin?

I found this article online:

You can't cool by convection or conduction in space, as obviously there's no matter there to dump heat into. However, it's certainly possible to cool by radiation -- that is, a hot heatsink emitting infrared radiation out into "empty" space.

Honestly -- how do you think the Sun heats the Earth through a few million miles of vacuum? Same thing. :)

@Nova`Prime`: Never know, we could at some point create a material that can withstand the temperature and keep a person mostly protected.

Stop trying to pee on my dreams.

@minigunman123: Just because its not possible now doesn't mean it never will be. There are millions of variables that could occur in the future that no one can predict that could open up endless scientific possibilities

@minigunman123: No I'm simply saying that you aren't psychic so you don't know what will happen, I didn't say we definitely ever could do it I just won't completely discount the possibility. Look at it this way in a little over a hundred years we've come from horse and buggy and telegrams to the ability to travel to the moon and we can say hello face to face with anyone in the world on skype. There is no way you or anyone can say with any certainty where we'll be say a few hundred years from now.

LOL I side with minigunman on this.