Why is Vanilla Ice considered a joke but Eminem is considered ok?

There are bands, people out there with one hit wonders more known then Eminem.

Me too.

At least Eminem ain't doing some bs show with the Amish to get attention.

LMAO Name them

A-ha.

Em is far more then Ok

Same shit can be said about Vanilla Ice

This also explains why you think rapping is easy, your favorite rapper is Vanilla Ice.

Because some of Em's stuff takes real talent. When he's not being emo I mean.

@urbanchill: K, Top of the charts during that time from70s-present. The only people who really know a lot about Eminem are younger kids who grew up in the 90's lol.

All these songs in the 80's

http://music-mix.ew.com/2009/04/07/vh1s-100-greate/

Also a link that shows past 5 decades of great one hit wonders that I will bet you more people have heard of then Eminem's songs lol

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2013/07/top-10-one-hit-wonders-through-decades

Groups that made careers out of one hit wonders literally....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_one-hit_wonders_in_the_United_States#Solo_career_one-hit_wonders

Should I keep going? lol The fact that some of these people literally made careers out of one song proves my point.

@ frogdog: You assume too much or misread what I posted, when did I say VI is my favorite rapper? Please quote me when I said this lol I didn't, I said he was out BEFORE Eminem and I prefer him over Eminem, and he wasn't the first white rapper on a massive level....That is what I said, as for rapping being easy, I said easier then singing in my topic many times(people mistake this for me hating on rap... You're right, there are more musicians and bands far more popular then VI too, and Eminem as well. But I'll save that for another topic. I'm just saying IMO he's overrated, and unlike other musicians out there can't seem to make songs without mocking other people in music which also turns me off honestly. Not my fault rap happens to do that...

I felt the same way about Linkin Park...lol

You are aware that eminem has moved over 115 million records within his career right ? Thats a continent of albums right there

not to mention ive never heard of a-ha and i doubt theyve helped move their musical genre in the ways that eminem has

@vaeternus: Your argument is based around one hit wonders being more popular than the biggest rapper to ever live... Do you understand what im saying here ? lol

They're both sellouts, but Vanilla Ice always was and Eminem now is. Seriously, am I the only one tired of his pop music? Honestly, the last Eminem song worth anything, off the top of my head, is 'Love the way you lie'. Everything else either sucks or is some pop/rap hybrid garbage.

Rap God is good though....forgot about it for a minute....

Does Eminem still hate gay people? Or are we just suppose to turn the cheek on that one?

A facepalm for the ages

@urbanchill: im saying eminem being better than vi isnt really a huge feat/accomplishment compared to others who are far more talented. Thats what im saying.

Also youre aware that his numbers are nothing vs say ohh the beatles or mj, right?

@vaeternus: Youre helping my argument only the biggest musicians of all time (who are dead and dont make music anymore) have out did eminem success wise so you telling me that one hit wonders are more popular is just laughable to me

@ urbanchill...Sorry, but you're misunderstanding my entire argument so no I'm not helping it, you're merely misunderstanding mine.

Thats not true, you must have never heard of lady gaga, justin beiber, paul mc, metallica, tons of rock groups still alive btw or members...pretty sure theyve made as much and then some vs eminem who saved his entire genre since it was doing bad before that. Dude even my friends who love rap admit and told me this that rap in the 80s and 90s was good vs. Now days...

I also never said more popular i said more known....

I take it you didnt read my list...and aren't familiar with the term "one hit wonder"

Example, justin beiber is way more popular then eminem is right now it doesnt make him 'better or more known' however. See my point?

Too bad that was not what you asked for. Record sales don't mean anything when asking who is more well known.

Also, there is no need to lie. If you know what the phrase one-hit-wonder is, you know who A-ha is. They were pretty much the reason for which the phrase was invented. And again, who made larger contributions to music was also not what you asked for when you asked for band and/or people to be listed that are more well known than the almighty Eminem.

@khan_noonien_singh: great post, exactly.

Em has sold over 140 million albums

He didn't save the genre. Hip-Hop was a both commercially successful and critically good before Eminem was even famous.

Eminem isn't even a gangster rapper. Doesn't rap about selling drugs, gang violence, etc.

Can guarantee most people who said Vanilla Ice is better are suburban whites who probably don't listen to rap.

Justin Bieber more popular than Eminem? The MMLP 2 went platinum in a little bit over a week.

Than you also said rap mocks other people while other genres don't. You're so stereotypical of a genre you have limited knowledge on. I don't understand why you insist on commenting on something that you only know about from the radio and what you see on TV.

It seems every thread you're in when it comes to rap comes off as you trying to undermine rap and proclaim how rock is better.

Eminem will end up being just as much of a joke. When Vanilla Ice hit, he was ridiculously popular.

dO.Ob

Thing is though, Eminem has been doin' his thing since '99, he's had some hiccups, but he's still considered with high regard. Even if he is considered a joke tomorrow, he's still had over a decade of fame and fortune.

Annnyway, to answer the question, until Vanilla Ice does something like this:

He won't be on Shady's level.

@ jnr, yes for a rapper thats quite the feat but compared to other genres like beatles or someone 140 mil is nothing.

I never said i listen to jb or lafy gaga etc but i know theyre just as big as eminem was. Especially lg.

Rap wasnt doing well before emnimem got big. Again, ask anyone from the 80s and 90s vs. That huge gap of mud 90s through early 2000. Rap wasnt as good as it once was. Even rap enthusiasts tell me this.

Im not stereotyping it. I just call it how I see it and you cone off as a rap fanboy. For one to say ' those who.like vi more are white' umm pretty sure eminem is also white so that logic makes no sense. Maybe not everyone here likes eminem ever think of that? Jyst a thought yet you lecture about limited knowledge.

Oh yes eminem doesnt rap about anything negative just mocks others and the fact that reeves got paralyzed. Original....

Yeah just so you know the amount of negative rock songs cant compate to rap song negative themes overall.

I never said rock was better but more sucessful than rap? Uhh yes. Has nothing to do with undermining.

I don't see how people are ever questioning Em's musical credibility. When all is said done, Vanilla Ice will always be a punchline for white rapper jokes. Eminem will be remembered as a pioneer, and one of his generation's most influential artists.

Vanilla started his carrier a little earlier, than eminem, of course some of his stuff looks lame by today standarts. But Vanilla and eminem both better leave rapping to the originators.

@cortsether: Have you listened MMLP2? that shits got new material!
it's the GOAT eminem album

Rap has only been a commercial genre for about 30 years. It's still in its infancy

Rap was doing well before it got big. Illmatic, Ready to Die, The Diary, Reasonable Doubt, 36 Chambers, Aquemini, Me Against the World,, Liquid Swords, Iron Man, Only Built For Cuban Linx, Black on Both Sides, etc the list of classic Hip-Hop albums that came out in the 90s before Eminem is a long list..

JB or Gaga aren't. Em is the best-selling artist of any genre of the 2000s.

Except how will you know about the negative themes in rap when you don't even listen to rap music or have any understanding of the culture itself? Please answer. You probably grew up in a different lifestyle so when you hear Scarface rapping his soul out about the struggles of poverty, it comes off as glorification of violence.

It's all shock factor. It's not like Eminem actually believes what he says. It's to build popularity. Many artists of all genres have done that.

So before you make statements that rap has a bunch of negative themes, show me that you actually have some knowledge of the genre besides listening to the radio and 3 artists. Don't make general claims over a whole genre, when you've only listened to 3 artists. That's just ignorance. I don't make claims about rock music because I generally don't listen to a lot of it. When you start generalizing a genre, based off of just a small segment of information, that's stereotyping.

"I call it how I see it" You're calling it based off what little you saw.

JNR, You're confusing "commercial music" with "the hotter popular genre that's in" everyone knows the mid to late 90's rap wasn't as big as rock or pop. Now you take early 90's and 80's rap was BIG, much bigger. I also lived through it so I think I'd know given as how I lived through the 80's and 90's and now. I mean, Eminem is washed up who is in now? Nikki? Lil Wayne? MJB? Really? You're going to tell me they can compare to OG rappers like Tupac, Biggy, Ice-T etc? Please...

LG has more hits then Eminem has in less time, and JB is just "popular" especially within the younger crowd. And most of those names I'll bet you most people never heard of unless you're strictly a rap enthusiast.

You assume I never listened or don't listen to rap? Proof of this? I HAVE that's why I'm saying it, again one I lived through the 80's and 90's I'm not a kid like most people on here who was born within the past 15 years growing up on "Eminem omg he's so cool" Secondly, lol I can just listen to a gansta rap or even Eminem song and find FAR more negative themes in it vs. the typical rock song. Outside of a few rock songs that sing about drugs and groups like Slayer(which are rare devil worshipers) there's not many songs that make you go "OMG that rock song is EVIL! Rape? drugs? Killing cops etc? Like Rap does or has...if you don't believe me go right ahead, take on my challenge of posting MORE rock songs that have themes about rap, drugs, murder, cops etc vs. rock songs. It's not happening.

Shock value, right so in other words trying to compensate for other things? well ok what about rappers who are successful without being vulgar?

Before you assume what I know and listen to, how about you prove me wrong by posting more NEGATIVE elements in other genres of music vs. rap? hmm

No, I'm calling it based off experience.

Vanilla Ice stole MC Hammer's style. Hammer had a very 90's style, one that would eventually become played out because he's not that good of a rapper, he was more of a showman. Since Hammer isn't really considered a respectable artist by many despite his amount of hits and albums sold..it only makes sense that the white knock-off version wouldn't be respected either. Unlike Vanilla Ice and despite his antics, Eminem can actually rap. He comes from that class of elite artists that actually battled and actually had to prove themselves lyrically before they got to where they are.

Ice-T, Pac & BIG are legends but the fact you named them shows your limited knowledge.

And of course everyone knows that the mid to late 90s rap wasn't as big as rock or pop. You do realize rap didn't get big until the 80s. It's still one of the earliest genres. Rock was already up to 30 years old by the time Hip-Hop got big.

Still great albums. Just because they aren't known doesn't make them not good. I'm sure there's a lot of rock artists alot of people don't know of unless you're strictly a rock enthusiast.

If JB is more popular with the younger crowd how come the Marshall Mathers LP 2 which just came out in November sold more than JB's album.

Em is more popular than Gaga also. US Nielsen Soundscan has Eminem ranked as the best-selling artist of any genre of the 2000s. He's on par with the Beatles for second place for the most chart topping UK albums.

I'm sure there's more rock songs talking about those things than rap. Not all rap talks about those things and most doesn't. You're just generalizing based on what little you have listened to. And please describe negative things because rap was born out of inner city culture (something you again have no understand of) and the struggles people faced in poverty, some of which is police brutality which is where songs like killing cops derive from.

Everyone use vulgarity and shock factor. Vulgarity is something that's apart of humanity so it makes no sense for why an artist would have to eschew it in their music which is supposed to be an expression of oneself. Every genre has done it, It's an easy way to become popular. Even Maya Angelou was criticized for being vulgar. Vulgarity didn't take away from the literary techniques her and other rappers use, hence why Nas a rapper who is "vulgar" has the Hip-Hop fellowship at the prestigious Harvard University named after him.

Except your experience is limited to mainstream Hip-Hop and about 5 artists at most. I love how you're trying to tell me about Hip-Hop when I actually listened and did my research on the genre and didn't just listen to Lil Wayne and made a statement about a 40 year culture that has emcompassed a wide variety of artists. Hell Kendrick Lamar, J.Cole, Macklemore & Drake are four of the biggest rappers in the game and aren't notorious for the things you claim rap is doing.

@jnr6lil: So because I don't want to list "every rapping" legend means I have limited knowledge? Right...I can list more but my point was to address the point I was making comparing past rappers vs. today's rappers. In which I need not to list "every" name out there, so I chose a few relevant ones off the top of my head. So I assure you it's not limited knowledge, but rather you misunderstanding my point. So it seems cause all you're doing is repeating yourself with the "limited knowledge blah, blah" bit. It proves nothing for your case.

You just posted what I've been trying to tell you hence me saying 80's and early 90's rap was BIGGER then today....

I get that Rock is older, obviously but that doesn't mean that other genres of music hadn't surpassed rap at times or that rock has had their downhill moments either. Rap was newer in the 80's sure, but now? It's 30+ years later hard to use the the "newer to the genre bit" I'm sure there's tons of dance, rock, rap, country even with lyrics concerning drugs, sex, murder etc but my point is RAP is known for it....far more then other genres. I don't even mean this as a knock to rap, it's just fact. If I google right now which music has the most negative lyrics, rape, death, sex, cop killing etc, etc I will bet you any amount of money rap/hip hop music will come up before anything else. That's all I'm saying. Am I saying other music is "innocent" hardly....but rather that in that regard, rap is clearly the worst. I'm not generalizing, I'm calling it how it is. Ok then and while you're right about "not every rap song is nasty" ok, by all means post 10 rap songs right now for me that doesn't have ONE negative lyric off hand. A simple request since I'm generalizing? Right? Therefore it shouldn't be that difficult for you. Cause I can post 10 rock songs, trance etc that has nothing to do with murder, cops, rape, woman, mocking others etc. ;)

Eminem NOW is not more popular then Lady Gaga...not even close. Maybe 10 years ago sure, before LG made it big. But now? No. Also considering his last album sucked. I have a friend who's literally obsessed with Eminem and even he told me this...what's that tell you? Also, keep in mind "album sales" aren't everything, sure they're important but just because a game, movie or cd sells more then another here and there doesn't negate popularity. Example, at times X-Men have sold better then Superman and Batman comics and vice versa. Does that mean worldwide X-Men are MORE popular then Superman and Batman? Hardly...both are popular, well known but let's face it Superman and Batman will ALWAYS be popular and known.

Actually, no, not everyone uses vulgarity and shock factor. Lady Gaga uses shock factor sure, but she's doesn't make fun of other people, sing about killing cops or degrading women. In fact the opposite she stands for and Gay rights hence her "born this way" unlike Eminem who clearly hates gays....also, beatles didn't use vulgar, shock value yet were big. Rolling Stones the same, Dolly Parton? Dude I can on and on. Blondie? So no that is not true, not ALL musicians use shock value, vulgarity or negative themes to try to "sell" their music. Opera? The fact that you limit yourself to just "rap and hip hop genre" proves that you're not aware of other genres and what made them big. It wasn't being vulgar or talking about killing cops I tell ya be it rock, disco, techno, pop, country, opera where as rap used it to try to attract people who they felt could relate to them.

I love how you still think I never listened to rap and I never heard of drake, J.cole etc, that's why you're resorting to irrelevant arguments with "you have limited knowledge" well then guy you have limited knowledge on musical history period then lol. Chances are I'm far older then you are since you're just talking about Eminem and rap genre so keep thinking that. I assure you, you're way off. There's also different styles of rapping too you know? Take VI vs. Eminems for example clearly two different methods of rapping.

Sidenote, Vance while I'm not saying he did or didn't but if VI did steal MC Hammer's style then that explains both short lived careers lol. But still would have to still go with VI there, MC Hammer hasn't been relevant in how many years literally?

All that being said, I can't see why we just can't agree to disagree. Obviously our preferences are different and that's fine, I'm merely pointing out the obvious differences in music genres. That's all.

@vaeternus: No, but you named the most cliche names, and didn't even spell Biggie right, which proves you were just digging out of dirt to come up with names.

Rap is still the youngest genre out of everything you're naming. It's not even old enough to warrant a Hall of Fame. But again not only is rap born out of inner city culture, which includes police brutality (which is where songs like F*ck the Police stem from) But fine instead of arguing, I'll name 20 Hip-Hop songs that have nothing to do with what you mentioned.

1. Kendrick Lamar-Sing About Me

2. Macklemore-Same Love

3. Common-The Believer

4. Nas-America

5. Kanye West-Jesus Walks

6. Tupac-Changes

7. J.Cole-Crooked Smile

8. Big KRIT-King Pt 3

9. Rapsody-Dark Knights

10. OutKast-Git Up, Get Out

11. Scarface-Hand on the Deadbody

12. J.Cole-Lost Ones

13. Wale-Freedom of Speech

14. Lupe Fiasco-All Black Everything

15. Biggie-Suicidal Thoughts

16. Lupe Fiasco-Words I Never Said

17. Ab Soul-The Book of Soul

18. Jay-Z- December 4th

19. Mos Def-Mathematics

20. Nas-Dance

Except Batman and Superman are still selling more than X-Men. In music record sells mean something. The MMLP2 went platinum while Artpop went gold.

So you're using Eminem as a representation for the entire genre of Hip-Hop? Not only is he every Hip-Hop artist but he is friends with Elton John who is gay, and has had no problem with the homophobia in his lyrics. Again I don't see why vulgarity and shock factor is an issue as not only do they deal with real life which is where music is expressed from but it doesn't change the art itself. You claim all Hip-Hop isn't about killing cops yet keep mentioning it is when you don't even listen to rap. You have no knowledge of the genre other than a select few artists that you've heard on the radio. You say rap isn't used to attract people it can relate to when it's one of the most popular genres because it has done just that. A lot of people growing up in the ghettos could relate to the struggles rappers went through.

You've heard of them but I can guarantee you haven't listened to them.

(And shorten your posts, it's getting too much to read)

While Eminem is the much better lyricist and artist, Vanilla Ice paved the way for Em to come through and shine. Before Vanilla Ice, there weren't many hit rap songs by white rappers. Hell, before "Ice Ice Baby" came along, there weren't really many hit rap songs in general. Not only did Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer come through and make hip hop acceptable to a mainstream audience, they made an opening for other, better rappers to come through and make their hit songs. I'm not saying that without Vanilla Ice, there'd be no mainstream rap, but I think it would have taken a bit longer to get there.

Rap wasn't as big it is now during the 80's/90's and I think a lot of people forget that it was still a young artform (As it still is) so during that time they needed to put hits out. There's some incredible hip hop from the 90's that can't been replicated, like Nas, Wu Tang Clan and Big L (as well as a list of others) but those guys weren't really "Mainstream". All of the stuff that's talked about today like it made this big cultural dent was all stuff that took a long time to break.

I think mainstream, radio-friendly hip hop will always be here, and it definitely doesn't get its props for opening up the doors for a long list of beloved artists.

@jnr6lil: Yes, right now in fact DC is destroying Marvel this year between Forever Evil, Injustice etc....but my point is comics fluctuate as much as music. DC and Marvel go through ups and downs.

I also didn't say "all rap is about killing cops" I said the genre happens to be more about that then other genres of music. Please try not to misunderstand what I'm saying. You seem to assume far too much based on me stating the obvious and my opinions of musical preference. I never said "all rap songs are bad" I just said historically speaking the genre is more KNOWN for that as oppose to other genres. I don't know how much more clear I can be here.

I sure have, not every album grant you but enough to judge and get an idea.

I think we can both shorten our posts.;)

I'm pretty sure Eminem did the whole Elton John gig as a publicity stunt to say "see media I don't hate gays" even though I rap about "hating them" lol. But whatever, hey maybe he is gay himself with the butt in the face incident....anyway.

I'm not using Eminem as a basis for the entire industry, as you can see i've listed others and semantics with Biggy/Biggie.

Yes, see notice you forgot proper punctuation ending in a period here with this sentence. Exactly, nobody cares dude. Trivial man.

Some people refer to him as "B.I.G." too so again, semantics. But surely not worthy arguing over. Really now, so let's not go nuts over semantics or minor grammar errors as a source of judgement.;)

I suggest we agree to disagree to save both of us trouble. It's clear you have your preferences and I have mine.

Good post, especially on the Vanilla Ice being the predecessor to Eminem. I think that is a good point, hey still to this day I hear "Ice Ice Baby" being played.

They're both whack to be honest(yeah Eminem fans I said). And no its not because Eminem is white or Vanilla Ice is white.

Anyways Vanilla Ice sucks more...Eminem is just overrated and its the truth. Yes I agree he is a lyrical beast, but those days have passed. People say he's the best rapper but he has not went up against any rappers on the level of Nas in any beefs, but just mediocre rappers and celebrities. Nas went up against rappers like Jay-Z. 50cent went up against Jarule, Nas, Jay-Z, Wutang, Jadakiss,etc. Jay-Z went up against Nas, 50cent and Mobb deep. Ice Cube with the whole NWA. I can go on and on. But what is the biggest rapper that Eminem beat in a beef? Yet people say he can beat anything rapper. His newer rap songs are stale, but I do admit he was a beast back then, but now...?

As for Vanilla Ice...He just plain sucks.

@cortsether: eMineM Had full creative control. Vanilla Ice was being controlled. V. Ice has stated Himself tHat He was being told wHat to do. He was young and dumb.

THus, V. Ice is a joke but not eM. THe music Has little to do witH tHe common conception tHat eM is DOPE but V. Ice is a joke.

June'sVeryOwn

@king_stranglehold_da_first: Whoa, Ice Cube went up against the N.W.A.? All of them?!? That feat is almost like Superman defeating the Justice League!

It wasn't hard. Cube was writing most of their lyrics

True. But MC Ren was still a capable MC.

This.

Bottom Line:

Eminem is a great MC when he wants to be, and a good artist.

Vanilla Ice is a sub-par MC and a fake MC Hammer knock off.

/thread

@cf12793 said:

I don't think this means Vanilla Ice "paved the way" if anything he made it harder for white artists....

@vance_astro: That makes little to no sense to me but each to their own.

um you do realize ice wasnt the only white rapper around that time right? you might want to look into mc search . also ice didnt pave shit for eminem. dre is the one after being told it is a risk since ice sucked and was proven to be a fraud. luckly dre said screw it and look at eminem now. king of rap currently. id also like to point out ice was never a lyrcist unlike eminem.

also eminem fired a shot at ice cube last year in a response to the drink the kool-aid track. vannila ice cant match eminem at all

also eminem go's into detail on 60 minutes on how he bends words wich as far as i know nobody else has done

@tazzmission: Congratulations, you've understood absolutely nothing I've said. Have a good night.

@cf12793 said:

It makes perfect sense. Vanilla Ice's career peaked after 1 album, so if he's an example of the capabilities of white rappers than it he doesn't make it look very promising.

i know a hell of a lot more than you do dude. funny how you defelcted when i asked you if you heard of mc search

@vance_astro An album that sold over 15 million copies worldwide and peaked at the top of the Billboard charts for over 16 weeks. True that he never made anything as successful again, but that's still tremendously impressive for any rapper especially at that time.

@tazzmission lol, not going to waste my time with you. You didn't even understand what I was saying in my first comment.

@cf12793 said:

By the time Eminem came out, Vanilla Ice was considered a joke already. I'm not trying to nitpick at your words, just saying Vanilla Ice couldn't have possibly paved the way for Eminem. Vanilla Ice is to white rappers what Jin & Cassidy are to battle rappers. They are used as examples of why those type of rappers don't have a good chance of making it.

@vance_astro: and I'm not saying Vanilla Ice is a good example of a white rapper. I'm just saying he was a successful one when he first started, and a lot of people forget that. What I'm trying to say is that Vanilla Ice helped open a door for Eminem and other rappers because he had a very successful hit rap song out. And that was a time that the charts were dominated by anything but rap.

You put it best, Vanilla Ice was a showman and his style faded quickly. However, he still sold a great deal of copies of his record at the time and helped make hip hop more mainstream appealing. That's all I was trying to say. Not "Vanilla Ice is as good as Em" or "Vanilla Ice and Em are comparable" because that's absurd. Believe me, I've listened to too much Eminem to draw to that conclusion.

Why doesn't Marky Mark get to be included in this discussion?