Why Don't You Believe In God?

@mrdecepticonleader: Well I think the bible is worth some blame if thats the right word. weather the bible says so or not the ideas still come from there

So if you write a book and say: Homosexuality is ok and people who don't agree with it are wrong" then homosexuals start hating, attacking and killing heterosexuals, are you to blame for that?

Driving a car is a different situation to getting pregnant.

My point was a mistake does not excuse accountability.

but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

I guess it could be considered abortion. I have never looked into the circumstances with vitro fertilization.

Not to mention the serious overpopulation problem we would have

This I don't agree with. There are better ways to deal with overpopulation then abortion.

as said i don't really care either way, i'm not trying to change your views etc. just talking

@King Saturn said:

@jobiwankenobi said:

We have both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is everything that is passed down orally, or through practice (pretty much anything that isn't scripture.). So my Faith comes from two sources. In them we learn that Jesus is not God the Father. He is God the Son. He is 100% God and 100% man. We also learn of the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus mentions. This is the belief in the Trinity. Three persons in one God. A Sacred Mystery that we cannot comprehend. They are each one God, yet they are each separate. People ask how Jesus can be 100% God and 100% man. One answer i have gotten is, it is just as possible as it is to be 100% Latino and 100% male.

I didn't say the Israelites were the only ones to slip up. Everybody slips up because everybody is a sinner. I only mentioned the Israelites because they applied to the point I was making. They slipped up a lot and forgot God. So scriptural writers really pronounced fear in God to follow the rules, and it worked. The Pharisees were notorious for following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law, and they did this because of how much it was pronounced in scripture. They wanted to look like they feared the Lord the most.

"To His face," was a metaphor. Not physically to His face, but they openly reject Him. It's just as insulting. Like if a blind person refused to love their own flesh and blood father (or mother, God is our Father and Mother because He does not have a gender) because they cannot see Him or for any other reason.

Murderers and rapists are just used as examples because they are extreme cases. I brought them up because those people would go to Hell, and I would do that to my own children if they felt no remorse for it, assuming they had no sort of mental or emotional condition. I know there are many atheists, or whathaveyou who are very good people. There are also terrible Christians or other religious. Being a good or bad person is based on your actions not on what you believe in.

1. think about the analogy you gave of Jesus... how can Jesus be 100 percent Man and 100 percent God at the same time... when God is Omnipresent and Jesus is not ? Jesus does not fill Heaven and Earth as the Father does... so how can he be 100 percent God if he does not fit the full qualifications of what God is ? Think about it... Jesus even said The Father was Greater than he is... how can you be equal to something if you are lesser than it ?

2. I disagree... if a man spits in the face of another man... it's not the same as just going out and talking stuff about him especially if you don't know the man even exists... it's not the same because most atheists will tell you they don't know if God exists and they believe that he doesn't based on the lack of evidence in favor of God existing... and usually if someone takes a harsh stance against God they are Anti Theist not just an Atheist... you can be an Atheist and not spit in the face of God... you just lack the belief that he is real. It's not the same as just blaspheming the deity... heck, even religious people blaspheme God sometimes and disrespects him... look at the Pharisees... religious folks who dissed Jesus on multiple occasions.

Why not? He's God he can do whatever he wants. He made the rules, He can change the rules, He can break the rules. Jesus's human form is not omnipresent. His divine form is. He is God incarnate as a human. Jesus's human body was able to be tempted, experience pain, exist linearly,exist in limited space, die, and do anything any other human could do. That's why it was such a big deal. Human and divine are two separate things. Just as the body and soul are separate. Every human, (at least in my Faith) has a physical body, and a non-physical soul. Our body dies, and our soul lives on forever in Heaven or Hell. Jesus's physical form was less than God the Father. Also, God the Son obeys God the Father just as a human son would obey a human father.

You shouldn't talk stuff about a man you aren't entirely sure of everything about. When I said openly reject, I meant someone who was properly exposed to the teachings and everything. They had experiences with God, and then rejected Him. That is what I meant. Like when many figures in the Bible fell into idolatry, most notably Solomon.

I agree with everything you say after, "it's not the same as just going out and talking stuff about him especially if you don't know the man even exists." I never said anything against that. I actually think that I said something to support it.

@King Saturn said:

@jobiwankenobi said:

Why not? He's God he can do whatever he wants. He made the rules, He can change the rules, He can break the rules. Jesus's human form is not omnipresent. His divine form is. He is God incarnate as a human. Jesus's human body was able to be tempted, experience pain, exist linearly,exist in limited space, die, and do anything any other human could do. That's why it was such a big deal. Human and divine are two separate things. Just as the body and soul are separate. Every human, (at least in my Faith) has a physical body, and a non-physical soul. Our body dies, and our soul lives on forever in Heaven or Hell. Jesus's physical form was less than God the Father. Also, God the Son obeys God the Father just as a human son would obey a human father.

You shouldn't talk stuff about a man you aren't entirely sure of everything about. When I said openly reject, I meant someone who was properly exposed to the teachings and everything. They had experiences with God, and then rejected Him. That is what I meant. Like when many figures in the Bible fell into idolatry, most notably Solomon.

I agree with everything you say after, "it's not the same as just going out and talking stuff about him especially if you don't know the man even exists." I never said anything against that. I actually think that I said something to support it.

1. Jesus was never Omnipresent... only The Father is... now maybe you could say when Jesus existed as simply Spirit ( when he was The Word ) he was Omnipresent... but he is not now because he is confined to a Body... also like I said, Jesus did say The Father is Greater than he is... so again, you can not be equal to what is greater than you... makes no sense.

2. Well I agree talking stuff about people you are not sure of is not a Good Idea... but it happens.

His Body is not. His divine self as God the Son is. It's one of the Mysteries of Faith that we can't fully comprehend. His Divine self is separate from His human self.

Indeed it does. Agreed.

@King Saturn said:

@jobiwankenobi said:

Why not? He's God he can do whatever he wants. He made the rules, He can change the rules, He can break the rules. Jesus's human form is not omnipresent. His divine form is. He is God incarnate as a human. Jesus's human body was able to be tempted, experience pain, exist linearly,exist in limited space, die, and do anything any other human could do. That's why it was such a big deal. Human and divine are two separate things. Just as the body and soul are separate. Every human, (at least in my Faith) has a physical body, and a non-physical soul. Our body dies, and our soul lives on forever in Heaven or Hell. Jesus's physical form was less than God the Father. Also, God the Son obeys God the Father just as a human son would obey a human father.

You shouldn't talk stuff about a man you aren't entirely sure of everything about. When I said openly reject, I meant someone who was properly exposed to the teachings and everything. They had experiences with God, and then rejected Him. That is what I meant. Like when many figures in the Bible fell into idolatry, most notably Solomon.

I agree with everything you say after, "it's not the same as just going out and talking stuff about him especially if you don't know the man even exists." I never said anything against that. I actually think that I said something to support it.

1. Jesus was never Omnipresent... only The Father is... now maybe you could say when Jesus existed as simply Spirit ( when he was The Word ) he was Omnipresent... but he is not now because he is confined to a Body... also like I said, Jesus did say The Father is Greater than he is... so again, you can not be equal to what is greater than you... makes no sense.

2. Well I agree talking stuff about people you are not sure of is not a Good Idea... but it happens.

His Body is not. His divine self as God the Son is. It's one of the Mysteries of Faith that we can't fully comprehend. His Divine self is separate from His human self.

Indeed it does. Agreed.

@King Saturn said:

1. I don't recall reading in a Bible that it says Jesus presence fills Heaven and Earth... now I know that is stated about Yahweh in the Old Testament... but never Jesus / Yeshua... this Divine Self concept you explain is something I don't directly remember seeing in the scriptures especially anything about it being Omnipresent.

I don't know if it is actually anywhere in Scripture. I'll ask somebody and get back to you. It is a part of Tradition, though.

Too much suffering.

@pooty said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Well I think the bible is worth some blame if thats the right word. weather the bible says so or not the ideas still come from there

So if you write a book and say: Homosexuality is ok and people who don't agree with it are wrong" then homosexuals start hating, attacking and killing heterosexuals, are you to blame for that?

Driving a car is a different situation to getting pregnant.

My point was a mistake does not excuse accountability.

but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

I guess it could be considered abortion. I have never looked into the circumstances with vitro fertilization.

Not to mention the serious overpopulation problem we would have

This I don't agree with. There are better ways to deal with overpopulation then abortion.

as said i don't really care either way, i'm not trying to change your views etc. just talking

I highly doubt that homosexuals would go out and kill heterosexuals based on my word,I mean first things first you didn't mention above about me saying them to go out and kill.Secondly the bible is supposedly the word of the christian god which is a reason why so many follow that religion and think the way they do.And what about those people who claim god is telling them to do certain things,and who said anything about killing homosexuals? people can still oppose it and have extremely strong views on it giving homosexuals alot of stigma still based on religious view points.

What if the mistake could not of been prevented despite taking steps to prevent it?

Fair enough same here I enjoy debating as it can help to understand others perspectives.

@mrdecepticonleader: so to sum things up:

You feel that the Bible either creates or advocates mistreatment of gays and abortionist?

I feel that the Bible does speak against gays and abortion but does not advocate any mistreatment of them.

Is that a fair assessment?

How did I miss this thread?

O_O

I am sitting back and reading along, @mrdecepticonleader: is pretty much describing my take on things. As for @pooty: my views are different than yours. I would say drastically so.

@pooty said:

@mrdecepticonleader: so to sum things up:

You feel that the Bible either creates or advocates mistreatment of gays and abortionist?

I feel that the Bible does speak against gays and abortion but does not advocate any mistreatment of them.

Is that a fair assessment?

I suppose so.

@lykopis said:

How did I miss this thread?

O_O

I am sitting back and reading along, @mrdecepticonleader: is pretty much describing my take on things. As for @pooty: my views are different than yours. I would say drastically so.

Cool

@lykopis: How did I miss this thread?

I don't know. But welcome. Better late then never.

@mrdecepticonleadermrdecepticonleader: is pretty much describing my take on things

Understandable. many people would agree with him

my views are different than yours. I would say drastically so

Honestly, that's good to hear. Most people who agree with me on gays, abortion, adultery, fornication, child rearing are assholes.

@pooty said:

Honestly, that's good to hear. Most people who agree with me on gays, abortion, adultery, fornication, child rearing are assholes.

Ha! So I'm different. I don't really agree with most of your points and yet I'm still an asshole. Nyahahaha!

@pooty: LOL -- nah, but you are funny. Not too much to contribute outside of what's already been said.

@ssejllenrad said:

@pooty said:

Honestly, that's good to hear. Most people who agree with me on gays, abortion, adultery, fornication, child rearing are assholes.

Ha! So I'm different. I don't really agree with most of your points and yet I'm still an asshole. Nyahahaha!

LOL

@jobiwankenobi said:

@King Saturn said:

1. I don't recall reading in a Bible that it says Jesus presence fills Heaven and Earth... now I know that is stated about Yahweh in the Old Testament... but never Jesus / Yeshua... this Divine Self concept you explain is something I don't directly remember seeing in the scriptures especially anything about it being Omnipresent.

I don't know if it is actually anywhere in Scripture. I'll ask somebody and get back to you. It is a part of Tradition, though.

Here it si. Any "I AM" statements refer to when Yaweh told Moses His name is "I AM WHO AM".

@jobiwankenobi said:

@King Saturn said:

1. I don't recall reading in a Bible that it says Jesus presence fills Heaven and Earth... now I know that is stated about Yahweh in the Old Testament... but never Jesus / Yeshua... this Divine Self concept you explain is something I don't directly remember seeing in the scriptures especially anything about it being Omnipresent.

I don't know if it is actually anywhere in Scripture. I'll ask somebody and get back to you. It is a part of Tradition, though.

Here it si. Any "I AM" statements refer to when Yaweh told Moses His name is "I AM WHO AM".

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.” This was one was kind of confusing. Basically Yaweh is the same as Yeshua. 2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ” John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.” John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?” John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men. 1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”...22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.” These ones below state Yeshua was also human. Hebrews 2:17,18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.” Hebrews 4:15,16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” 1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.” Romans 5:8 - “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” I'm sure I could find more.

@King Saturn: The ones that say He is God and that He is the same as God.

@King Saturn: The ones that say He is God and that He is the same as God.

@King Saturn said:

@jobiwankenobi said:

@King Saturn: The ones that say He is God and that He is the same as God.

Jesus is an aspect of God... but not literally Yahweh. Jesus said that The Father was Greater than he was. We also know Jesus exists in a Body whereas the Father is Essence and Spirit... Jesus comes out from Yahweh but is not literally Yahweh therefore he is Not Omnipresent... because he is in a Body.

Hmmm... well this just comes down to personal belief. I believe that each person has a body and a soul, meaning they are literally a body and a soul. The soul is immortal while the body will die. Jesus's body was not omnipresent because, well, it's a body. His divine nature as God is omnipresent. He is God the Son, and each God is God. Yaweh is the Father, Yeshua is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Again, this is all the belief according to my religion. It all changes depending on whether you believe body and spirit are completely separate or not.

@King Saturn said:

@jobiwankenobi said:

@King Saturn: The ones that say He is God and that He is the same as God.

Jesus is an aspect of God... but not literally Yahweh. Jesus said that The Father was Greater than he was. We also know Jesus exists in a Body whereas the Father is Essence and Spirit... Jesus comes out from Yahweh but is not literally Yahweh therefore he is Not Omnipresent... because he is in a Body.

Hmmm... well this just comes down to personal belief. I believe that each person has a body and a soul, meaning they are literally a body and a soul. The soul is immortal while the body will die. Jesus's body was not omnipresent because, well, it's a body. His divine nature as God is omnipresent. He is God the Son, and each God is God. Yaweh is the Father, Yeshua is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Again, this is all the belief according to my religion. It all changes depending on whether you believe body and spirit are completely separate or not.

@King Saturn said:

@jobiwankenobi said:

Hmmm... well this just comes down to personal belief. I believe that each person has a body and a soul, meaning they are literally a body and a soul. The soul is immortal while the body will die. Jesus's body was not omnipresent because, well, it's a body. His divine nature as God is omnipresent. He is God the Son, and each God is God. Yaweh is the Father, Yeshua is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Again, this is all the belief according to my religion. It all changes depending on whether you believe body and spirit are completely separate or not.

I can't buy that for several reasons...
1. In Matthew 3:17 when John the Baptist was with Jesus, when John baptized him a Voice spoke from Heaven saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" if Jesus is the same as God as in Yahweh = Jesus then why is Jesus calling himself "His Son" don't make sense... they have to be separate entities.
2. In John 14:28, Jesus flat out says The Father is Greater than he is... Therefore Jesus is Not Equal to Yahweh... and we see this because he is a Divine Force in a Body basically and Not Omnipresent as his Father is...

now maybe you could say that Jesus was an Omnipresent Force when he was with Yahweh... but then he existed as The Word and not really as Jesus... remember Jesus was the name that was Given him as he came into our World Physically not a name he was known by beforehand.

It's one of those Sacred Mysteries that we can't fully comprehend. Again, Sacred Tradition and personal belief.

I think I see what you are saying. You say Jesus (as in the human) is not God. The Word (Who is not human) can be God. That is kind of true, again according to my beliefs, Jesus's physical being is not God. His Spirit and Divine essences is God. However, my personal beliefs say the body and soul are one. They are separated when we die. (This happened when Jesus was crucified, but they were returned together when He was resurrected. Then He ascended into Heaven Body and Spirit.) So yeah, all personal belief.

1) Fervent Atheist/Secularist.

2) In short, there is no conclusive evidence to support a belief. What is more, why would you consciously decide to live under a celestial dictatorship? Especially one based upon superstition that, if anything, is malevolent; or, at best, lazy. That being said, as long as religion is kept to the individual in the privacy of their own homes, without encroaching on the rights and beliefs of anyone else, then, I have no qualms with its existence.

3) Possibly at a younger state.

4) Logic.

5) If I have, I wouldn't have cared.

6) At its core it proves as a useful comforting tool. It's a shame this cannot be its sole function.