Why do so many people hate the U.S.A.?

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JeanRalphio

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@dngn4774 said:
@jeanralphio said:

@dngn4774: You're still not explaining to me why it has to be our place in the world to save everybody. Our country and government is in a shambles itself, the foreigners might hate us but when shite hits the fan we are the first ones they call as you saw with Ukraine, when Ukrainians had signs saying "US, we need you" and "Welcome Obama" etc... And it's a good move that we decided to stay out than be the Captain Planet you want.

I'm not saying that we can do everything by ourselves but we can't pretend that inaction is an equally valid solution. We should do as much as we can to the best of our ability. If we don't then we deserve to be hated.

Why isn't the same being said for economical giants like Germany who initiated both World Wars, the greatest most pointless wars in human history? We gave OVER 37 billion dollars overseas(that's a lot of ability" for aid and the next in line was the UK with around 9 billion, that's a HUGE deficit. We are the youngest of the big countries, why does all the weight have to be on our shoulders and still be criticized?

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dngn4774

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@dngn4774 said:
@jeanralphio said:

@dngn4774: You're still not explaining to me why it has to be our place in the world to save everybody. Our country and government is in a shambles itself, the foreigners might hate us but when shite hits the fan we are the first ones they call as you saw with Ukraine, when Ukrainians had signs saying "US, we need you" and "Welcome Obama" etc... And it's a good move that we decided to stay out than be the Captain Planet you want.

I'm not saying that we can do everything by ourselves but we can't pretend that inaction is an equally valid solution. We should do as much as we can to the best of our ability. If we don't then we deserve to be hated.

Why isn't the same being said for economical giants like Germany who initiated both World Wars, the greatest most pointless wars in human history? We gave OVER 37 billion dollars overseas(that's a lot of ability" for aid and the next in line was the UK with around 9 billion, that's a HUGE deficit. We are the youngest of the big countries, why does all the weight have to be on our shoulders and still be criticized?

You've completely ignored what I've said and are using a horrible example btw. Germany never started The Great War (Austria-Hungary did after Serbian nationalist murdered their heir) and WW2 is a prime example of why we should not just look the other way. Our lack of participation in the League of Nations along with Britain and France's reluctance to snuff out the fight early (Before Hitler took the Rhineland, Czechoslovakia, and Poland) made the conflict much more bloody than it ever needed to be.

Once again the problem is that we don't think that any of our actions affect others and if they do writing a big check just makes it ok for us to continue creating more problems. We never learn from or apologize for this mistake and are reasonably hated for it (meaning every counterpoint you raise is actually strengthening my argument). There are serious problems in our culture that we fail to address. It's a error in our ethos that we continually repeat, simply because it is easier to pretend that curing a symptom justifies spreading the disease.

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HillbillyMorangie

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@dngn4774: lol minority parties, don't make a culture... Take the French government, its corrupt, but the French are about as liberal as you get.... When you think of Americans you think of stupid conservative deeply religious country bumpkins with skinheads, army fatigues and a gun... Oh and Jesus and an American flag in every room.

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judasnixon

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To be honest I hate most of America..... Have you ever drive across America? It's awful.....

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ARMIV2

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To be honest I hate most of America..... Have you ever drive across America? It's awful.....

Driving across all of America can't be any worse than driving from So Cal up to Washington through Sacramento way.

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America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best country in the world!!!

Sorry guys, my patriotism has no silence button.

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Nelomaxwell

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#307  Edited By Nelomaxwell

Why don't people hate America?

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Deadite

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#308  Edited By Deadite

Someone needs to shotgun pure capitalism in the back like blasting away T-1000's particle matters, just lock on its chest and work till it looks ripe and runny. Just do it over and over again until it goes into a coma, than reprogram its fcking head while it's under.

Than the big drug companies would have to decide whether they'd like to stay or leave. They have no where else to go anyway. They can't find another country that allows them to run as free as they can in the U.S.

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I see this conversation has been going on for more than three years now, but consider that America is not just a nation of image-obsessed capitalists, but imperialists. Dollars aren't enough. We want you to think like us, Vietnam. We want you to give us your hearts, Saudi Arabia. Love us, love us, love us, Russia. If you don't, you can expect we will petition for a larger military presence in your country. Resistance is futile. If you do not comply, we'll help install a regime that will. Our guns are bigger than our president's smile, but the damage will only last half as long. Love us, though our love is bondage. DO IT. Align with us and we promise aid, but cross us, and we'll have CNN and Fox News ruin your tourist economy by telling the world you have AIDS. L-O-V-E us.

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@judasnixon: I love road trips over here. Then again I'm American, so. :-)

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deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

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I see this conversation has been going on for more than three years now, but consider that America is not just a nation of image-obsessed capitalists, but imperialists. Dollars aren't enough. We want you to think like us, Vietnam. We want you to give us your hearts, Saudi Arabia. Love us, love us, love us, Russia. If you don't, you can expect we will petition for a larger military presence in your country. Resistance is futile. If you do not comply, we'll help install a regime that will. Our guns are bigger than our president's smile, but the damage will only last half as long. Love us, though our love is bondage. DO IT. Align with us and we promise aid, but cross us, and we'll have CNN and Fox News ruin your tourist economy by telling the world you have AIDS. L-O-V-E us.

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OHMAGGGODDD CLOWWWNNNSSSS!!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

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Deadite

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#312  Edited By Deadite

My opinion doesn't include my country's approach towards hostile countries.

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@farkam: [Image from the totally f***ed-up Italian film, The Last Circus]

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Nelomaxwell

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#314  Edited By Nelomaxwell

On Point.

I see this conversation has been going on for more than three years now, but consider that America is not just a nation of image-obsessed capitalists, but imperialists. Dollars aren't enough. We want you to think like us, Vietnam. We want you to give us your hearts, Saudi Arabia. Love us, love us, love us, Russia. If you don't, you can expect we will petition for a larger military presence in your country. Resistance is futile. If you do not comply, we'll help install a regime that will. Our guns are bigger than our president's smile, but the damage will only last half as long. Love us, though our love is bondage. DO IT. Align with us and we promise aid, but cross us, and we'll have CNN and Fox News ruin your tourist economy by telling the world you have AIDS. L-O-V-E us.

No Caption Provided

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@nelomaxwell: Staying on point is the only way.... It's the only way!... The only way! [Insert clowns here.]

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Loading Video...

People won't america anymore if this becomes their national anthem.

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America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best country in the world!!!

Sorry guys, my patriotism has no silence button.

Because of this guy.

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Cable_Extreme

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#318  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@awesam: So you hate a country when people are proud to live in it? hmmmm, weird...

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@awesam: So you hate a country when people are proud to live in it? hmmmm, weird...

I don't hate America... I don't particularly like America, but I don't hate it. I usually don't like Americans because many think they're superior to everyone else simply because they're American. Also, I quoted you because your answer to why people don't like America is because 'America is the best'.

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Cable_Extreme

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#321  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@awesam said:

@cable_extreme said:

@awesam: So you hate a country when people are proud to live in it? hmmmm, weird...

I don't hate America... I don't particularly like America, but I don't hate it. I usually don't like Americans because many think they're superior to everyone else simply because they're American. Also, I quoted you because your answer to why people don't like America is because 'America is the best'.

Well, do you not think the country (if not America) is the best? If not, why live there? I don't think I am superior to anyone, but i am darn proud to be an American! Showing patriotism is needed for any thriving country, if the people don't love it, you are doing something wrong.

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#322  Edited By AweSam

@awesam said:

@cable_extreme said:

@awesam: So you hate a country when people are proud to live in it? hmmmm, weird...

I don't hate America... I don't particularly like America, but I don't hate it. I usually don't like Americans because many think they're superior to everyone else simply because they're American. Also, I quoted you because your answer to why people don't like America is because 'America is the best'.

Well, do you not think the country (if not America) is the best? If not, why live there? I don't think I am superior to anyone, but i am darn proud to be an American! Showing patriotism is needed for any thriving country, if the people don't love it, you are doing something wrong.

Do I think my country is the best? I can't make that decision because I haven't been to every country. Why live here? Because I go to school here and don't have the money or assurance to pack up and go. I didn't say you, I said many American's. Actually, most of the American's I've encountered have that attitude. Patriotism is fine, but saying you or your country is the best for no reason is... pointless. I also didn't say I dislike America, I said I don't particularly like it. I don't particularly like a lot of countries.

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TheTruthIII

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#323  Edited By TheTruthIII

@thetruthiii: @thetruthiii: Do I live in Afghanistan? No. No I do not. I live somewhere far, far colder.

@thetruthiii said:

@hit_monkey said:

The public school system is disgusting. It's run by stupid, litigiously paranoid, lunatics.

They don't have/oppose national health care.They just let people die instead.

They have all sorts of problems with guns. Yet most of think that the only answer to it is even more guns.

The Christian far-right in general is putrid sewer of humanity.

It's place that birthed and protected The Westboro Baptist Church but black people still can't get about their day to day without harassment by the police force.

The nations police force is a gang of unbelievably corrupt, idiotic, gun toting maniacs.

Just to add to that. look up 'civil forfeiture' in the US.

Finally, all this and far, far more is widely published across the planet. So we all get to read about what a horrible place it is. Every damn day. Yet muricans rant on about how they live in the greatest country in the world every damn day.

If you don't mind me asking; do you live in Afghanistan? Because most everything you said doesn't apply to 95% of America.

Sees someone criticize America. Immediately assumes they are from the country that flew a airliner into the World Trade Centre. You sir, have just proved my point entirely...

I don't care if people criticize America. I just care if people lie about America. Judging by how you spelled "centre", you're probably from Britain or another European country, right? So what if I said all Europeans did nothing productive, liked to waste their pathetic lives drinking tea and spent 5 hours a day taking lunch breaks? And when you call me out on it, I simply told you to can the patriotic trash and face the truth? Well, that's exactly how you're handling it right now. So until you find concrete evidence that all US policemen are always drunk and easily bribed, don't act like you know better.

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JeanRalphio

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#324  Edited By JeanRalphio

@hillbillymorangie said:

@dngn4774: lol minority parties, don't make a culture... Take the French government, its corrupt, but the French are about as liberal as you get.... When you think of Americans you think of stupid conservative deeply religious country bumpkins with skinheads, army fatigues and a gun... Oh and Jesus and an American flag in every room.

I'm thinking the same about Eastern Europe, East Germany, all those skinhead neo nazis and hailing mary catholics in the west. Do you realize how ignorant and contradictory you seem?

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Cable_Extreme

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@awesam said:

@cable_extreme said:

@awesam said:

@cable_extreme said:

@awesam: So you hate a country when people are proud to live in it? hmmmm, weird...

I don't hate America... I don't particularly like America, but I don't hate it. I usually don't like Americans because many think they're superior to everyone else simply because they're American. Also, I quoted you because your answer to why people don't like America is because 'America is the best'.

Well, do you not think the country (if not America) is the best? If not, why live there? I don't think I am superior to anyone, but i am darn proud to be an American! Showing patriotism is needed for any thriving country, if the people don't love it, you are doing something wrong.

Do I think my country is the best? I can't make that decision because I haven't been to every country. Why live here? Because I go to school here and don't have the money or assurance to pack up and go. I didn't say you, I said many American's. Actually, most of the American's I've encountered have that attitude. Patriotism is fine, but saying you or your country is the best for no reason is... pointless. I also didn't say I dislike America, I said I don't particularly like it. I don't particularly like a lot of countries.

I can make the decision that my country is the best because it fully satisfies my criteria for what I consider the best country to be. And looking at the people's reactions, if we are all saying our country is the best, then there is something going on there.

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JeanRalphio

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T

@dngn4774 said:
@jeanralphio said:

@dngn4774 said:
@jeanralphio said:

@dngn4774: You're still not explaining to me why it has to be our place in the world to save everybody. Our country and government is in a shambles itself, the foreigners might hate us but when shite hits the fan we are the first ones they call as you saw with Ukraine, when Ukrainians had signs saying "US, we need you" and "Welcome Obama" etc... And it's a good move that we decided to stay out than be the Captain Planet you want.

I'm not saying that we can do everything by ourselves but we can't pretend that inaction is an equally valid solution. We should do as much as we can to the best of our ability. If we don't then we deserve to be hated.

Why isn't the same being said for economical giants like Germany who initiated both World Wars, the greatest most pointless wars in human history? We gave OVER 37 billion dollars overseas(that's a lot of ability" for aid and the next in line was the UK with around 9 billion, that's a HUGE deficit. We are the youngest of the big countries, why does all the weight have to be on our shoulders and still be criticized?

You've completely ignored what I've said and are using a horrible example btw. Germany never started The Great War (Austria-Hungary did after Serbian nationalist murdered their heir) and WW2 is a prime example of why we should not just look the other way. Our lack of participation in the League of Nations along with Britain and France's reluctance to snuff out the fight early (Before Hitler took the Rhineland, Czechoslovakia, and Poland) made the conflict much more bloody than it ever needed to be.

Once again the problem is that we don't think that any of our actions affect others and if they do writing a big check just makes it ok for us to continue creating more problems. We never learn from or apologize for this mistake and are reasonably hated for it (meaning every counterpoint you raise is actually strengthening my argument). There are serious problems in our culture that we fail to address. It's a error in our ethos that we continually repeat, simply because it is easier to pretend that curing a symptom justifies spreading the disease.

Lets not pretend Germany didn't strong arm the first war, they used their alliance with Austria-Hungary as a grounds to initiate the actual war, I never said "started it". You have a very skewed world view, you might want everyone to hold hands and sing along, and I get that, I really do but that isn't how this world, our world, really works and as bad as it sound it never will. Especially when you have the right wing trying to further expand the American "empire", Obama pulled troops in the Middle East, didn't take military action in Crimea and won't in North Korea and guess who opposes that? The right. You say we should have helped earlier with Germany to avoid something disastrous, should we go to N. Korea and stop their murderous regime, what about the Ukranians who don't want Russian troops there, should we help all countries or would that be spreading the American disease? You're undermining yourself here with your contradicting points.

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dngn4774

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@dngn4774 said:
@jeanralphio said:

@dngn4774 said:
@jeanralphio said:

@dngn4774: You're still not explaining to me why it has to be our place in the world to save everybody. Our country and government is in a shambles itself, the foreigners might hate us but when shite hits the fan we are the first ones they call as you saw with Ukraine, when Ukrainians had signs saying "US, we need you" and "Welcome Obama" etc... And it's a good move that we decided to stay out than be the Captain Planet you want.

I'm not saying that we can do everything by ourselves but we can't pretend that inaction is an equally valid solution. We should do as much as we can to the best of our ability. If we don't then we deserve to be hated.

Why isn't the same being said for economical giants like Germany who initiated both World Wars, the greatest most pointless wars in human history? We gave OVER 37 billion dollars overseas(that's a lot of ability" for aid and the next in line was the UK with around 9 billion, that's a HUGE deficit. We are the youngest of the big countries, why does all the weight have to be on our shoulders and still be criticized?

You've completely ignored what I've said and are using a horrible example btw. Germany never started The Great War (Austria-Hungary did after Serbian nationalist murdered their heir) and WW2 is a prime example of why we should not just look the other way. Our lack of participation in the League of Nations along with Britain and France's reluctance to snuff out the fight early (Before Hitler took the Rhineland, Czechoslovakia, and Poland) made the conflict much more bloody than it ever needed to be.

Once again the problem is that we don't think that any of our actions affect others and if they do writing a big check just makes it ok for us to continue creating more problems. We never learn from or apologize for this mistake and are reasonably hated for it (meaning every counterpoint you raise is actually strengthening my argument). There are serious problems in our culture that we fail to address. It's a error in our ethos that we continually repeat, simply because it is easier to pretend that curing a symptom justifies spreading the disease.

Lets not pretend Germany didn't strong arm the first war, they used their alliance with Austria-Hungary as a grounds to initiate the actual war, I never said "started it". You have a very skewed world view, you might want everyone to hold hands and sing along, and I get that, I really do but that isn't how this world, our world, really works and as bad as it sound it never will. Especially when you have the right wing trying to further expand the American "empire", Obama pulled troops in the Middle East, didn't take military action in Crimea and won't in North Korea and guess who opposes that? The right. You say we should have helped earlier with Germany to avoid something disastrous, should we go to N. Korea and stop their murderous regime, what about the Ukranians who don't want Russian troops there, should we help all countries or would that be spreading the American disease? You're undermining yourself here with your contradicting points.

I'm not asking our government to micromanage all sovereign states in the world. I just want us to accept some level accountability for our inactions as well as our actions. All choices have consequences and we can't just pretend that by not acting we are actually rising above the situation. Whatever is not addressed in the present will be come back in a different way in the future. The best we can do is to be prepared for that outcome whenever it presents itself again. Pretending it's not our problem helps no one.

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#329  Edited By TheTruthIII

@thetruthiii said:

@jeanralphio: I actually don't deny anything you said; to a certain degree, it's all true. However, all you're doing is looking at the negative side of things, and completely ignoring all the good stuff.

I could care less about the the "good stuff" as you say, I was addressing how you said that none of that stuff happens, when it most certainly does, you need to square that patriot bias away. And it is public schools that are teaching creationism. Why would I bring up a private schools, that's a different sector.

Realize how I said "to a certain degree." In other words, everything said was of upmost exaggeration. Yes, I do realize there are flaws in America. However, you're acting like every other country in the world is flawless, and the reason they hate us is because we have some issues within our nation. Well, pal, I hate to shatter your perfect little dream image, but that's not the case. Sure, we have some faults here and there, but that is most definitely not a viable reason for them to hate us so much. In fact, 95% of the nations are even more faulty than we are. So can all the "patriotic bias" trash.

As for public schools preaching the way of God, prove it. Because that's pretty much against the Constitution, and any school that did that would have been shut down long ago.

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JeanRalphio

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@dngn4774 said:

I'm not asking our government to micromanage all sovereign states in the world. I just want us to accept some level accountability for our inactions as well as our actions. All choices have consequences and we can't just pretend that by not acting we are actually rising above the situation.

I don't think you're realizing that this directly contradicts itself. You're putting the government in a catch 22 situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't. You won't ever be pleased here.

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JeanRalphio

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#331  Edited By JeanRalphio

@thetruthiii said:

@jeanralphio said:

@thetruthiii said:

@jeanralphio: I actually don't deny anything you said; to a certain degree, it's all true. However, all you're doing is looking at the negative side of things, and completely ignoring all the good stuff.

I could care less about the the "good stuff" as you say, I was addressing how you said that none of that stuff happens, when it most certainly does, you need to square that patriot bias away. And it is public schools that are teaching creationism. Why would I bring up a private schools, that's a different sector.

Realize how I said "to a certain degree." In other words, everything said was of upmost exaggeration. Yes, I do realize there are flaws in America. However, you're acting like every other country in the world is flawless, and the reason they hate us is because we have some issues within our nation. Well, pal, I hate to shatter your perfect little dream image, but that's not the case. Sure, we have some faults here and there, but that is most definitely not a viable reason for them to hate us so much. In fact, 95% of the nations are even more faulty than we are. So can all the "patriotic bias" trash.

As for public schools preaching the way of God, prove it. Because that's pretty much against the Constitution, and any school that did that would have been shut down long ago.

I've decided to ignore the first part because I don't have time for foolishness. Again, square it away.

This is exactly what people say when Americans just plug their ears and act like it doesn't happen. It's not like it's a hidden thing, there are public federal cases and lawsuits of creationism being taught in public education, I don't know what you're trying to do there with saying "prove it" besides being childish. You LITERALLY could have looked it up yourself. Here's your PROOF of tax dollars preaching "the way of god"...lol.

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dngn4774

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@dngn4774 said:

I'm not asking our government to micromanage all sovereign states in the world. I just want us to accept some level accountability for our inactions as well as our actions. All choices have consequences and we can't just pretend that by not acting we are actually rising above the situation.

I don't think you're realizing that this directly contradicts itself. You're putting the government in a catch 22 situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't. You won't ever be pleased here.

There is no Catch 22 here; every adult knows that in politics there is rarely a simple answer. My problem with our government is that we never accept accountability when things go wrong and pretend that we are always the victims whenever a valid criticism comes our way. Confidence in decisions is one thing, but creating a facade of infallibility (that we can do no wrong in times where evidence suggests otherwise) is just childish. I agree that it's hard to be liked when we are forced to make the brunt of hard decisions, but it is impossible to be liked when we get overly defensive towards anyone who challenges the logic behind our actions.

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JeanRalphio

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@dngn4774 said:

@jeanralphio said:

@dngn4774 said:

I'm not asking our government to micromanage all sovereign states in the world. I just want us to accept some level accountability for our inactions as well as our actions. All choices have consequences and we can't just pretend that by not acting we are actually rising above the situation.

I don't think you're realizing that this directly contradicts itself. You're putting the government in a catch 22 situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't. You won't ever be pleased here.

There is no Catch 22 here; every adult knows that in politics there is rarely a simple answer. My problem with our government is that we never accept accountability when things go wrong and pretend that we are always the victims whenever a valid criticism comes our way. Confidence in decisions is one thing, but creating a facade of infallibility (that we can do no wrong in times where evidence suggests otherwise) is just childish. I agree that it's hard to be liked when we are forced to make the brunt of hard decisions, but it is impossible to be liked when we get overly defensive towards anyone who challenges the logic behind our actions.

I agree that there is no simple answer but like I said, you won't ever be pleased here.

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dshipp17

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#334  Edited By dshipp17

@jeanralphio said:

@thetruthiii said:

@jeanralphio said:

@thetruthiii said:

@jeanralphio: I actually don't deny anything you said; to a certain degree, it's all true. However, all you're doing is looking at the negative side of things, and completely ignoring all the good stuff.

I could care less about the the "good stuff" as you say, I was addressing how you said that none of that stuff happens, when it most certainly does, you need to square that patriot bias away. And it is public schools that are teaching creationism. Why would I bring up a private schools, that's a different sector.

Realize how I said "to a certain degree." In other words, everything said was of upmost exaggeration. Yes, I do realize there are flaws in America. However, you're acting like every other country in the world is flawless, and the reason they hate us is because we have some issues within our nation. Well, pal, I hate to shatter your perfect little dream image, but that's not the case. Sure, we have some faults here and there, but that is most definitely not a viable reason for them to hate us so much. In fact, 95% of the nations are even more faulty than we are. So can all the "patriotic bias" trash.

As for public schools preaching the way of God, prove it. Because that's pretty much against the Constitution, and any school that did that would have been shut down long ago.

I've decided to ignore the first part because I don't have time for foolishness. Again, square it away.

This is exactly what people say when Americans just plug their ears and act like it doesn't happen. It's not like it's a hidden thing, there are public federal cases and lawsuits of creationism being taught in public education, I don't what you're trying to do there with saying "prove it" besides being childish. You LITERALLY could have looked it up yourself. Here's your PROOF of tax dollars preaching "the way of god"...lol.

Provided public schools were teaching Creationism in schools, such would not be supportive of any lower ranks in standardized test scores, relative to other countries; the reasons for the lowered scores is being debated and the reasons being proposed are completely separate from religious reasons; the reasons being discussed is actually related to a decay in moral standards; actually, the public schools are teaching or hinting at evolution; when I was in school, the only place possible where Creationism might have been mentioned was in religious courses which were optional electives or courses for people seeking a religious degree, but, that was because I attended a private Methodist college at points during my college career; however, don't assume that it was a religious institution, because it wasn't; it simply had support from the Methodist church, but it was intended to be a secular school.

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Cable_Extreme

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#335  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@dshipp17: creationism could account for a drop in test scores, they (most) don't even try to educate themselves in the theories and facts of science...

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@dshipp17 said:

@jeanralphio said:

@thetruthiii said:

@jeanralphio said:

@thetruthiii said:

@jeanralphio: I actually don't deny anything you said; to a certain degree, it's all true. However, all you're doing is looking at the negative side of things, and completely ignoring all the good stuff.

I could care less about the the "good stuff" as you say, I was addressing how you said that none of that stuff happens, when it most certainly does, you need to square that patriot bias away. And it is public schools that are teaching creationism. Why would I bring up a private schools, that's a different sector.

Realize how I said "to a certain degree." In other words, everything said was of upmost exaggeration. Yes, I do realize there are flaws in America. However, you're acting like every other country in the world is flawless, and the reason they hate us is because we have some issues within our nation. Well, pal, I hate to shatter your perfect little dream image, but that's not the case. Sure, we have some faults here and there, but that is most definitely not a viable reason for them to hate us so much. In fact, 95% of the nations are even more faulty than we are. So can all the "patriotic bias" trash.

As for public schools preaching the way of God, prove it. Because that's pretty much against the Constitution, and any school that did that would have been shut down long ago.

I've decided to ignore the first part because I don't have time for foolishness. Again, square it away.

This is exactly what people say when Americans just plug their ears and act like it doesn't happen. It's not like it's a hidden thing, there are public federal cases and lawsuits of creationism being taught in public education, I don't what you're trying to do there with saying "prove it" besides being childish. You LITERALLY could have looked it up yourself. Here's your PROOF of tax dollars preaching "the way of god"...lol.

Provided public schools were teaching Creationism in schools, such would not be supportive of any lower ranks in standardized test scores, relative to other countries; the reasons for the lowered scores is being debated and the reasons being proposed are completely separate from religious reasons; the reasons being discussed is actually related to a decay in moral standards; actually, the public schools are teaching or hinting at evolution; when I was in school, the only place possible where Creationism might have been mentioned was in religious courses which were optional electives or courses for people seeking a religious degree, but, that was because I attended a private Methodist college at points during my college career; however, don't assume that it was a religious institution, because it wasn't; it simply had support from the Methodist church, but it was intended to be a secular school.

Does creationism teach punctuation? And are you trying to say morals are decaying because of evolution...?

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#337  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme said:

@dshipp17: creationism could account for a drop in test scores, they (most) don't even try to educate themselves in the theories and facts of science...

Actually, to add more facts, the standardized scores have been falling since the courts halted religious practices in schools; the standard of education in the US has been falling in proportion to the removal of Christianity in schools; I think this decline has been precipitous, starting about 1985, right as the court decisions came into place banning religious practices such as school prayer; wrongly opposite again my friend. Theories and facts of science would have to be a starting point to rebutting the theory of evolution in favor of Creationism, so, I can only assume your presumptions are derived from self-impose ignorance of the science supporting Creationism.

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@dshipp17 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@dshipp17: creationism could account for a drop in test scores, they (most) don't even try to educate themselves in the theories and facts of science...

I can only assume your presumptions are derived from self-impose ignorance of the science supporting Creationism.

There is no science supporting creation or intelligent design, for someone to be so wrong, you are way too smug. It's ridiculous that you can call someone ignorant while believing in creationism.

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@dshipp17 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@dshipp17: creationism could account for a drop in test scores, they (most) don't even try to educate themselves in the theories and facts of science...

I can only assume your presumptions are derived from self-impose ignorance of the science supporting Creationism.

There is no science supporting creation or intelligent design, for someone to be so wrong, you are way too smug. It's ridiculous that you can call someone ignorant while believing in creationism.

Again, I know multiple websites and scientific articles that do appear to support Creationism and Intelligent Design; I even presented a few scientific articles supporting my claim; however, the science is mostly designed to either rebut evolution or dating methods relied upon by secular scientists; it doesn't necessarily support Creationism, just refutes assumptions that seem to make Creationism implausible; the information is just taken by Christians to reaffirm their faith in an accepted principle that cannot or has not been ruled out.

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@dshipp17: dating methods by secular scientist? So your theory is that almost all geologist purposefully misinterpret dating methods, and that these type of dating methods that are strongly supported and examined by the scientific community are wrong because the scientist are secularist and do not want the truth comming out?......

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@dshipp17: dating methods by secular scientist? So your theory is that almost all geologist purposefully misinterpret dating methods, and that these type of dating methods that are strongly supported and examined by the scientific community are wrong because the scientist are secularist and do not want the truth comming out?......

Essentially, yes, as strange as it sounds, but, this is not my theory but my known observation; secular scientists simply ignore the errors in dating methods identified in the creationism website, a tacit sign admitting the errors in the dating methods; the points will not remain the same, if secular scientists were rebutting the points; either the new information would be rebutted or the point of reference dropped, if there was a logical explanation for the error eliminating the assumption that there actually exists an error; the dating methods can be very accurate in some places, but not others; although the dating technique might be sound, the theory supporting some of the assumptions are flawed; after a certain time period, assumptions cannot be accurately relied upon; there are different dating techniques; we can assume, for example, that a chemical element has a certain half life, but, you have to examine what's being discussed more specifically so you don't conflate that sound principle with other assumptions that are basically scientific guesswork.

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#342  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@dshipp17: There might be errors in our current understanding in science, but our dating methods are being refined and currently are VERY accurate. The problem with your logic is that you doubt the dating methods BECAUSE you already believe in something else. You look at the bible and then try and measure science up to it, not the other way around.

But even if our current dating methods were wrong, there is still nothing out there that tells us of a young earth besides the Bible. Simply looking at the fossils and how organized they are in the sediment layer, you won't find a human bone where a dinosaur bone is, you will not find a fossil that is out of place with the recorded time zones of their existence.

So if there was a flood, why are the bones in this order? Why wouldn't it be a chaotic mix where everything drowned and died together? This in itself should be enough proof to any honest thinker that the idea of a mass flood 6 thousand years ago (with dinosaurs) is quite easily falsified.

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#343  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme said:

@dshipp17: There might be errors in our current understanding in science, but our dating methods are being refined and currently are VERY accurate. The problem with your logic is that you doubt the dating methods BECAUSE you already believe in something else. You look at the bible and then try and measure science up to it, not the other way around.

But even if our current dating methods were wrong, there is still nothing out there that tells us of a young earth besides the Bible. Simply looking at the fossils and how organized they are in the sediment layer, you won't find a human bone where a dinosaur bone is, you will not find a fossil that is out of place with the recorded time zones of their existence.

So if there was a flood, why are the bones in this order? Why wouldn't it be a chaotic mix where everything drowned and died together? This in itself should be enough proof to any honest thinker that the idea of a mass flood 6 thousand years ago (with dinosaurs) is quite easily falsified.

Actually, all of these questions are answered in the clip below; just follow the references back to the applicable scientific articles.

Loading Video...

And you're right; the proper way is to assume the Bible is correct and test scientifically to verify the material stated in the Bible, particularly, since the references in the Bible have proven to be overwhelming reliable; that's the way all other statements of antiquity is approached; you assume that Alexander the Great existed, test for it, and note that he never existed, if such is found to be the case; the only credible challenged to just one of the statements in the Bible appeared to be dating, except it's been rebutted, although, not necessarily conclusively.

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#344  Edited By JeanRalphio

@dshipp17 said:

@jeanralphio said:

@dshipp17 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@dshipp17: creationism could account for a drop in test scores, they (most) don't even try to educate themselves in the theories and facts of science...

I can only assume your presumptions are derived from self-impose ignorance of the science supporting Creationism.

There is no science supporting creation or intelligent design, for someone to be so wrong, you are way too smug. It's ridiculous that you can call someone ignorant while believing in creationism.

Christians to reaffirm their faith in an accepted principle that cannot or has not been ruled out.

Creation CAN and HAS been completely ruled out by the logical. You're right lets throw radiometric dating, rubidium-strontium and fossils out of the window. And not one single point of Ken Ham's holds up or answers a question, he literally doesn't answer one question. All he does is say "the bible says" which already disproves his points and he puts up videos of scientists who believe in god,who also don't answer any questions or give proof or evidence.

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#345  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@dshipp17: You didn't answer my questions, and I have watched that debate.

Also assuming that the bible is correct BEFORE testing it with science is where creationism fails. There is absolutely no evidence supporting the supernatural claims that are mentioned in the bible. I do think that Alexander the Great probably existed, as well as a guy who people called Jesus (could have existed), but that in no way means that the supernatural claims mentioned in the bible are true. lets take this into the religion thread if you want to continue this, I can point out all of the errors in creationism for you.

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#346  Edited By dshipp17

@jeanralphio said:

@dshipp17 said:

@jeanralphio said:

@dshipp17 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@dshipp17: creationism could account for a drop in test scores, they (most) don't even try to educate themselves in the theories and facts of science...

I can only assume your presumptions are derived from self-impose ignorance of the science supporting Creationism.

There is no science supporting creation or intelligent design, for someone to be so wrong, you are way too smug. It's ridiculous that you can call someone ignorant while believing in creationism.

Christians to reaffirm their faith in an accepted principle that cannot or has not been ruled out.

Creation CAN and HAS been completely ruled out by the logical. You're right lets throw radiometric dating, rubidium-strontium and fossils out of the window.

I'd suggest that you go reexamine the data, starting with the clip I presented above; your statement is one of opinion rather than verified, unrebutted scientific fact; until you actually commit yourself to viewing the rebuttal evidence that I keep presenting, your statement should not be taken seriously, except to provide us with evidence of how you would like things to be, even though the science shows otherwise.

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were stupid and ignorant. we bully other countries and think we have the right to get involved in everything when there are several things that we should stay out of. plus bush and Obama have really screwed up this country.

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#348  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@hylian: AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!! THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

My patriotism has no inside voice.

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@dshipp17: You didn't answer my questions, and I have watched that debate.

Also assuming that the bible is correct BEFORE testing it with science is where creationism fails. There is absolutely no evidence supporting the supernatural claims that are mentioned in the bible. I do think that Alexander the Great probably existed, as well as a guy who people called Jesus (could have existed), but that in no way means that the supernatural claims mentioned in the bible are true. lets take this into the religion thread if you want to continue this, I can point out all of the errors in creationism for you.

This clip is separate from the debate; it makes specific references addressing the questions that you posed; the clip is not the debate and the clip is not just commentary on the debate; the clip references numerous scientific articles, some addressing the exact question that you presented. If most things presented in the Bible is panning out, it would be safe to assume that the supernatural events took place, likewise; that's just simply logical reasoning done in court, for example (e.g. although you didn't see the assault take place, from examining the circumstantial evidence presented, you are safe in assuming that an assault took place).