Why Are People Flipping Out Over Gay Marriage?

@pooty: precisely.

I've seen that "How do I explain it to my kids" argument alot and I'm gonna have to go with the Louis C.K. line for that. You can't stop people from being happy just so you don't have to explain complicated s**t to your kids. There are lots of actual bad things in the world that no one seems to have trouble with, every child in America who has passed 6th grade has gotten an explanation for why we dropped nukes and killed a few million Japanese people during WW2, they have also got an explanation for why Europeans slaughtered Native Americans and why Twilight became popular. 2 guys kissing shouldn't be that big a deal.

You're talking about the ceremonial laws? Aren't those ceremonial laws fulfilled through Jesus, Jesus being the sacrificial lamb and the one who intercedes for people with God, as told by Jesus himself?

Moral laws and ceremonial laws are not the same thing guys.

Ceremonial laws were never meant to be the end-game. Jesus accomplishing salvation for many is the end-game.

God's goal since the fall of man has nothing to do with ceremonial laws. Ceremonial laws merely represented the nature of God's chosen people's relationship with him, as said by God himself.

Any and all laws in the OT were ONLY for Descendents of Abraham aka Jews.

I wouldn't even bother to address the dude with a Confederate Flag as his AV. He's either trollin' hard or enjoys spewing ignorance.

The ceremonial laws? Yeah. And even then, all those laws were not meant to last.

God's plan of salvation included people that came from all the families of the earth as promised to Abraham.

God's plan of salvation is shown in the moral laws he gave that reveal mankind's flaws. They are not meant to save people but show people their flaws and need for a savior.

People having problems with homosexuality most likely originates from religion. I find it ridiculous how people can have a problem with it though.

@dum529001: No one is debating whether God's salvation includes all men. I'm saying that NO LAWS in the OT including the 10 Commandments are laws that Christians have to obey. OT laws, ALL OF THEM, were only for jews

Wrong.

Jesus made it clear he was in full support of the Old testament. He summarized the ten commandments with the statement "Love God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself". The flaw within mankind's heart, demonstrated though various actions, is said to be stumbling block and offense against God in Old testament. Jesus even states "if you love me, keep my commandments". The list goes on. Jesus never condoned or tolerated sin(missing the mark).

Completely false. Before the Moses gave his laws he started by saying. "To the sons of Israel or To the sons of Abraham" . The 10 Commandments are in Exodus 20. It says EXACTLY who Moses is talking to

Jesus gave two NEW LAWS that were never said before just for Christians

It's actually natural to have a problem with homosexuality the same way people naturally have a problem with dwarfism, mentally disabled, disfiqured, etc, not all to the same degree of course.

People make the foolish mistake of treating religion as the big bad just because that's what they've been told rather than think about it, all these things are negative aspects of the evolutionary process which is not kind.

Couldn't be any wronger. But hey, its easy to just follow the crowd instead of looking into things yourself.

It is true that having a problem with homosexuality is based on nature also. I can't stand to see gay sex. Just a natural reaction. That said, I believe having a problem with Homosexual marriage is mostly because of religion

@petey_is_spidey: We could both quote and source 100's of studies finding this or that, (even though the biggest study EVER to date, shows being gay is a matter of genetics), it's neither true nor false yet, however, looking at simple brothers which come from the same household, with the same environmental factors, nurture, and both nature, having the same social groups and pressures, and yet... One of them comes out gay and the other turns out to be heterosexual, that's pretty obvious they were born that way. Moreover, you could just ask a gay person, huh? They will tell you they were BORN that way, and you are in no position to say otherwise, simply, because they are themselves, and you aren't able to invalidate their experience regarding their sexuality, because it's a subjective experience, thoroughly. And anyways; while some people may choose to focus on the debate of if it's born or not, it doesn't matter, people should still envision and make sure that everyone has the same rights and opportunities regardless of who they love and want to have sex with, including marriage.

How would you know that you have more knowledge on this matter than me? Cause last time I checked, you don't know me. I have also have extensive knowledge in biology, but also psychology and zoology. There is no such thing as a 'gay gene'. Homosexuality is a combination of many factors, and is definitely not determined at birth. If that is true how come so many ex-convicts, male and female alike, are gay or bisexual once they leave jail? Or that in studies with identical twins, not even have of the twins shared the same sexuality, despite having identical genes? No extensive study has ever came to the definitive conclusion that you are born that way.

Of course it says, "To Israel, sons of Abraham" because God was talking to the israelites at the time as recorded in book of Exodus, however, its said and known that God's salvation plan is not just for Israelites.

Jesus speaks of sin and forgiveness of that sin just like in the Old testament of the Bible.

@pooty:

It is true that having a problem with homosexuality is based on nature also. I can't stand to see gay sex. Just a natural reaction. That said, I believe having a problem with Homosexual marriage is mostly because of religion

Which is related, it's like that social construct people always try to make not realizing that these things come about in society because of our nature and are ability to overlook our nature is our empathy

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/p5qpf3/stand-up-chris-delia--uncensored---chris-d-elia---gay-friend-in-the-crew-pt--2

Religion.

Notice how it's almost entirely Christians (Many fundamentalists, but also many regular Christians as well) doing most of the hating.

@dextersinister: understood

@dum529001:Of course it says, "To Israel, sons of Abraham" because God was talking to the israelites at the time as recorded in book of Exodus, however, its said and known that God's salvation plan is not just for Israelites

I NEVER disagreed that God has a salvation plan for all men. My only point is: OT laws were written ONLY TO JEWS. ONLY FOR JEWS. Jesus gave new laws to Christians.

@petey_is_spidey: What your saying makes sense but 90% of the time biology effects it in 90% of cases being gay is not a choice it's biological.

@chazz85: I wouldn't necessarily agree on those exact percentages, but hey, agree to disagree.

@jkfallen: Actually, Islam, Orthodox Judaism and several other religions aside from Christianity have religious taboos about homosexuality. Tho it is pretty much just the Monotheistic religions that have problems with it. I guess the rule is if you have one god, no butt stuff. Except for mine, I'm a Deist, my god has better things to do than worry about the sex lives of people on a dust mote off in the corner of the universe.

Then you don't agree with the Bible. You're taking bits and pieces of the Bible and then throwing in your own stuff.

"First to the jews, then to the gentiles" is what Jesus said. And Jesus did not throw away the commandments. Jesus' own words have said the exact opposite.

The bible stuff doesn't matter as far as the Laws of the United States are concerned, the Constitution is pretty clear on the fact that religion shouldn't have anything to do with governance, its literally the first thing in the Constitution right there in the same amendment where they give us freedom of Speech.

@dum529001: you're still talking about salvation. I'm not talking about salvation. I'm talking about LAWS in the OT. Two questions please include scriptural proof

1) Were OT laws written to Jews, gentiles or Christians?

2) Are Christians commanded to obey laws from the OT?

Please include scriptural proof

Christians are commanded to obey the word of God, which is in the Old testament. Jesus himself fulfilled the ceremonial laws with his death. The moral laws that point out mankind's flaws is what points out the need for salvation. Jesus came to save people from sin. Jesus accomplished salvation for those who believe that he payed for their sins with his death. People obey and do their best to obey the commandments because they acknowledge sin as bad and not something they should want to do. People don't follow commandments to be save, they do so because of the fact that they are saved.

When God brings an end to the earth and creates a new one, believers will no longer be able to be seperated from God as his enemy, which means they will no longer sin.

I have never argued that Christianity be imposed on the government.

What I was saying is that homosexuality is viewed as a sin by God and Jesus did not throw away the old testiment moral laws, only the ceremonial laws because Jesus is the sacrifice that Israel and people who were among other nations were waiting for to pay the penalty of sin, which is the full wrath of God, and Jesus is the ultimate high priest that goes to God on behalf of people for the forgiveness of sin.

@dum529001: why won't you show a scripture saying Christians are required to follow OT laws?

Hell, I'll show scriptures myself showing Christians are not required to obey OT laws.

Romans 10:4

Galatians. 3:23-25

As long as a Christian obeys Jesus NEW laws you can totally ignore the OT laws

God's followers are not restricted to jews. God himself has said so. You're trying to say God is the savior of the jews even when its stated by God that if jews did not believe and follow his words and follow, they are just as doomed as anyone and that salvation from sin is for jews as well as anyone who is not a jew. God came to save people from sin and God commanding people about not sinning is listed in the Old Testament as the moral laws.

@dum529001: As far as I'm concerned that has nothing to do with this issue. Its a legal issue pure and simple, I personally believe that the Government should never have been allowed to tell legal Consenting adults who they can or can't marry. Only God has the right to judge the morality of people, even Jesus said that judging others is a sin, and that all sin is equal in the eyes of God so by the rules of their own religion a Christian who judges a gay person is committing an equal sin in the eyes of God.

@dum529001: Show where i said that God's followers are restricted to jews. Show where i said God is the savior of jews. I NEVER said any of that. Last time: Christians are NOT required to obey any law in the OT. If you disagree show scriptures saying they are. In post 184 i listed scriptures proving my point

I already referred to the God's promise to abraham, that is continually referred back to in the entire Bible, as well as Jesus' words about jews and gentiles and preaching the gospel to all nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

@joshmightbe said:

Since when am I judging people??? I simply stated homosexuality is a sin. Once again, I'm not forcing people to obey God's word. They are free to do what they want. The government exists in order to keep peace and some semblance of order among people, not impose lifestyle choices. The government helps people live but it should not decide how they live.

I wonder if this thread has spiraled far enough into the religion topic to justify a lock.

@saren ?

no it's not, other major religions are less tolerant, it shouldn't have taken you more than a second to see how other religions/countries view these things

@joshmightbe: Exactly. Our government is not a theocracy and a book written thousands of years ago should have little influence on our current government. Being gay is only a sin if people believe it is.

There are several Muslim countries where people can be executed for being gay. Russians were incredibly anti-gay even when the were the USSR and had state supported Atheism.

Really the only people flipping out are old white people, and the people they have raised. They hate other groups getting equal rights. Same thing happened with equal rights for blacks.

@dum529001: The most commonly quotes bible verse related to homosexuality "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them" is a complete mistranslation. Either way, it's a bad idea for Christians to take the bible literally when it's full of contradictions and glorification of things such as slavery. Even when I used to be Christian, I would only ever see the bible as metaphorical and guide-line-ish.

At this point, I'm more concerned about the glitter everywhere that I can't seem to get rid of. My enjoyment of rainbows have taken a severe beating. It's tragic, really.

Also, there appears to be more outrage to be found online than actually out there in the real world. It's not that big a noise, not like how American news sites make it to be.

I don't know.

Why do people WANT gay marriage? Why not a civil partnership? Why would you force Churches to do what they don't want to do, and since they can't deny marriage to those people, even though it's against the Bible, they'd loose their tax exempt statues, because they would be violating a civil right, even though it's against the Bible, ruining one of their common human rights?

@glemerald924:

LOL, bro...where have you been in the past five years?

People have been like that ever since the LGBTQ community became very vocal about their rights...

d^_^b

@username12345: Actually churches have always had the right to refuse to do weddings for various reasons, some force couples do to mandatory counseling before they allow them to marry in their church, Catholic churches tend to only allow weddings where both people are Catholic, my wife's brother had to convert so he could get married in his wife's church.

So really noone is really forcing anything on churches. Plus there are multiple other options aside from churches, you can get married at a court house, you could find your own minister and pick your own location, hell, it only takes about 10 minutes to get ordained online so you could get a buddy to marry you in your living room if you feel like it now days.

So your argument for civil unions instead is kind of weak on all sides.

God commanded death for more than one sin and it was done to keep Israel distinguished from other nations as apart of God's plan, not allowed to permanently stray away, as told by God himself. Anyway, the nation of Israel was a foreshadowing, forerunner, of what God later did with Jesus.

And all slavery is not alike in its treatment of people as shown in the scriptures within the book of Leviticus concerning conduct towards slaves and many times the slaves of Israelites were prisoners of war. Slave just means "servant", but westerners have learned to equate all slavery to the African-Atlantic slave trade practiced by various Europeans and lack of fairness in regards to paying the slaves for their work, but there is a conduct of fairness God commanded towards Israel in the treatment of slaves. People really need to stop looking at everything from a euro-western-centric context.