Who's King of the Comic Book Movie Genre? Whedon v Nolan

It was bound to happen sooner or later... but hopefully this way all of the madness can be contained in one thread.

Christopher Nolan receives a herculean amount of praise, and rightfully so. The man's resume is staggeringly impressive and his dark and more realistic work on the Batman universe has boosted his fame and support. But, fan favorite Joss Whedon has finally stepped into the heavyweight comic book movie ring and he delivered one hell of a punch with Marvel's The Avengers. Sure, their styles are drastically different, but at the end of the day we all choose to hold preferences and these are justified by what makes a movie good in our eyes. So, it boils down to the simple question of who do you prefer as a director for the comic book movie genre and why? Do you want a deeper, darker and more powerful plot that Nolan can deliver... or do you want to laugh and cheer along the entire ride with Whedon's work?

Please, there's no reason to turn this into a heated fanboy war. Do the Vine justice and show we can have an intelligent discussion on this subject. At the end of the day, we're just lucky to live in an age where we can finally enjoy superb superhero movies. Keep it friendly or I'll send @Morpheus_ after you. Got it? Good.

Nolan. While I enjoyed The Avengers, I felt Nolans Batman captured the character of both Bruce Wayne and batman better.

Haven't seen Avengers yet, but when I want to watch a comic book movie, I want something fun and with a sense of humour - because that's how I like my comics (usually). It sounds like Avengers will be a better fit for me than DKR
 
...which is funny, because I find myself enjoying DC's comics way more than Marvel's comics. I think it's interesting how DC's movies are going down a darker route (Man of Steel and the Green Lantern sequel are supposed to be dark in flavour to some extent) and Marvel's are more light-hearted (Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man) when their comic books are usually seen the other round in terms of content.

Nolan, Though I'm biased because whedon makes me sick with his emo love scenes.

But nolan delivers In every category in dark knight, He makes you walk out of a movie theater wishing they would let him do his own comic.

Haven't seen the Avengers yet. Hopefully will tomorrow before I can comment. But I will say as great as Nolan is with his Batman movies, they were overrated IMO.

@god_spawn said:

Haven't seen the Avengers yet. Hopefully will tomorrow before I can comment. But I will say as great as Nolan is with his Batman movies, they were overrated IMO.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLMMMFAO LOLOLOLOLOLOOLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLOROFL

@utotheg38 said:

@god_spawn said:

Haven't seen the Avengers yet. Hopefully will tomorrow before I can comment. But I will say as great as Nolan is with his Batman movies, they were overrated IMO.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLMMMFAO LOLOLOLOLOLOOLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLOROFL

My day is complete. I got the utotheg LOL of approval.

Utotheg38 approves this message XD

Dammit, K4tz. You just couldn't resist, could you?

Shouldn't this thread wait until after TDKR comes out...?

No, that's logic. We don't use that here. Go Away

@Lance Uppercut said:

I felt Nolans Batman captured the character of both Bruce Wayne and batman better.

... I don't feel it in that way, Nolan's Batman is not a big detective, even if he has showed good firensic skills, he doens't seem that "Holmes", and in all Nolan's Batman movies, the villain seems more interesting than Batman, I mean, HE IS THE GODDAMN BATMAN, and I liked the Joker, Ras Al Ghul and Scarecrow more than Batman, but I think that is Bale's fault...

...Also, I have to say that Nola's Batman is way to physical, he needs the metaphysical part of Batman, the madness, the psychological issues in all the known Batman villains, when I watch Nolan's Batman, I don't feel that is Batman at all, like the first Spider-man movies, that wasn't Spider-man at all.

Edit: Now talking about the Avengers, I couldn't feel the characters in some of the characters, Iron Man was too impulsive (for example), but some of them even when they changed the character, they felt better, like Black Widow, she was perfect, I am not a fan at Black Widow but she was cool in the movie, and I think that Whedon really got Captain America's character, every phrace that came out of Chis Evans felt like the Cap, and Loki was also on character, I am happy with Tom Hiddleston (he is perfect as Loki), and all that Hulk was also good, BUT, I also felt that it was it own thing, like Nolan's Batman.

A better Adaptation: I would say that the Avengers, by far, with Nolan, I don't get a Superhero movie, is a movie, a different kind of movie.

Better Movie: Both have been great, and I have been hyped for both from the beginning of the year, I can't say that one is better than the other, because I don't feel it in that way.

Video related:

Nolan makes way better comic book related movies and his other movies are awesome too.

@TDK_1997 said:

Nolan makes way better comic book related movies and his other movies are awesome too.

Why do you think in that way?

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

I felt Nolans Batman captured the character of both Bruce Wayne and batman better.

... I don't feel it in that way, Nolan's Batman is not a big detective, even if he has showed good firensic skills, he doens't seem that "Holmes", and in all Nolan's Batman movies, the villain seems more interesting than Batman, I mean, HE IS THE GODDAMN BATMAN, and I liked the Joker, Ras Al Ghul and Scarecrow more than Batman, but I think that is Bale's fault...

So because they had him gather information in the say way he does as the comics, save for the inner monologue, they didn't focus on the fine Sherlock Holmes attention to detail? Just because they didn't call attention to it and make it a GIGANTIC facet doesn't mean it wasn't there. There are aspects from a lot of superhero films that miss in that kind of way.

@Lance Uppercut said:

I felt Nolans Batman captured the character of both Bruce Wayne and batman better.

... I don't feel it in that way, Nolan's Batman is not a big detective, even if he has showed good firensic skills, he doens't seem that "Holmes", and in all Nolan's Batman movies, the villain seems more interesting than Batman, I mean, HE IS THE GODDAMN BATMAN, and I liked the Joker, Ras Al Ghul and Scarecrow more than Batman, but I think that is Bale's fault...

i would say whedon, because we are on the topic comic book movies. nolan makes great movies, i f**ing love prestige, but seriously batman voice, c'mon. whenever i hear bale i think hes trying to push one out. i'll admit his villains are the bomb (r.i.p. ledger), let me put it to you this way: the batman movies are good, no dennying how much you can hate on batman or nolan, but after so long a time of weird batman that cant turn left or right except with his whole body, batnipple, schwarzeice, really weird gotham, nicholson joker (ich) how can you not praise nolanverse? its like the group-chick effect: a good looking chick(not great) surrounded by the ugliest femmales to walk the earth, but without the other girls, the normal one is just normal. whedon didnt have any previous shitty failed attempts to make his look good, he created it out of nothing and made it awesome. props to whedon! nolan you are ok, but seriously not looking forward to tdkr (why: because he expanded the shitty voices: bane's got one, gordon, i would not be surprised if catwoman wont have one: i'm catwoman)

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

I felt Nolans Batman captured the character of both Bruce Wayne and batman better.

... I don't feel it in that way, Nolan's Batman is not a big detective, even if he has showed good firensic skills, he doens't seem that "Holmes", and in all Nolan's Batman movies, the villain seems more interesting than Batman, I mean, HE IS THE GODDAMN BATMAN, and I liked the Joker, Ras Al Ghul and Scarecrow more than Batman, but I think that is Bale's fault...

Yeah, it's definitely the Academy Award Winning and universally acclaimed actor's fault and not yours.

lmao

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Yeah, it's definitely the Academy Award Winning and universally acclaimed actor's fault and not yours.

I don't care what the others say, I don't feel his character, so could be anyone's fault, mine, Nolan's or Bale's fault, or maybe our fault.

Nolan hasn't given any "cool" stuff on Batman he is almost unnoticed in his own movie, everybody talks about how awesome was the Heath Ledger's Joker but nobody talks about Bale's Batman (and I am pretty sure that no one cares about him) and I don't like that Batman, that is not MY Batman, so who cares? is my opinion.

@Lance Uppercut said:

So because they had him gather information in the say way he does as the comics, save for the inner monologue, they didn't focus on the fine Sherlock Holmes attention to detail? Just because they didn't call attention to it and make it a GIGANTIC facet doesn't mean it wasn't there. There are aspects from a lot of superhero films that miss in that kind of way.

So, it leaves a lot of stuff in the inamgination, so, What makes Nolan's Batman great and different from other Batman movies like Burton's Batman? What makes him special?

@Deadcool said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Nolan makes way better comic book related movies and his other movies are awesome too.

Why do you think in that way?

Because Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were really intense and felt like a comic book event or an arc for me.

I prefer Whedon and Burton over Nolan.

Nolan stomps

@entropy_aegis said:

Well Nolan sticks to the source material unlike Burton who had Joker kill Batman's parents,so I guess Joker was in his mid 50's at the least when he encountered Batman NOW THAT IS STUPID.

Well... Yeah, his origin was indeed stupid, but that was the Joker, in my opinion, Jack Nicholson's Joker is nearer to comicbook Joker than Heath Leadger.

Regardless in my opinion what makes Batman tick is his drive,his devotion to his cause and his ability to get back up .Nolan delivers all that, detective work is an ability not a character trait. And lets face it most Batman stories either have crappy detective work or deus ex detective work. Ahem Long Halloween,Hush etc.

That is Loeb, I remember that Batman TAS had an AWESOME Bat-detective, and current Snyder's Batman also seems to be a better detective.

As for Nolan not giving cool stuff to Batman,I think people should watch Batman Begins.That scene where he interrogates Flass and the other one where he owns the cops in Arkham is pure Batman.

But is lack of another elements, that dark feeling that the classic Batman has, those psichological issues in his enemies, the madness in Arkham Asylum, Nolan is really poor in those elements.

@TDK_1997 said:

Because Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were really intense and felt like a comic book event or an arc for me.

Oh really? Oh well...

This thread deserves the return of the not so legendary Hellos. Whedon, without skipping a beat.

Nolan's Batman isn't Batman. No boy wonder, no batmobile, no detective skill worth mentioning, no actual intelligence worth mentioning. It's hard for me to say Nolan is true to the Batman universe when he ignores much of it to ground his Batman in reality, to the point dogs are his most lethal enemy(which was quite a leap from the first film). People are letting Heath Ledger's performance that made the last film ignore that.

That doesn't mean it wasn't a fantastic film that really went down to the core of the narrative "why we need heroes", but yeah.

For Avengers, it doesn't feel quite as much right out of the comic book as that. Whedon himself is seemingly a passionate fan of the characters, not to mention quite soldier himself for bringing this herculean task of a mega-film together, to make for probably the most memorable comic book film to date. The characters all had enough time on screen to feel that they had enough, surprises like Hawkeye that only started out with a brief cameo in Thor had some fantastic moments in that film, Black Widow reaches the heavens in this sequel compared to her showing in Iron Man 2 and best of all I can walk to this film, watch the Avengers, the actual Avengers, working together in a magical way, saving the day and walk out happy, thrilled and sufficiently pleased waiting eagerly for a sequel after carrying a smile on my face throughout the entire film, with audience clapping behind me.

I didn't get that from the Dark Knight and I for one am glad we can have a superhero film that isn't a completely depressing "dark" movie, just cuz.

Bring on the gauntlet that will be Avengers 2 to Whedon!

It's all subject to opinion and I'm still over 9000.

@entropy_aegis said:

Burtons Jokers motivation was Vicky Vale,close to the comics my foot.Ledgers Joker was chaos personified and that's exactly what Joker is supposed be.

The Joker is someone that kills when it's funny, at least that was a couple of years ago, and Ledger's Joker has a motivation, put the people on his level, the Joker's motivation is play with Batman, in his first appearence the Joker used to kill people with gas, and in the moment of their death they had a smile in their faces, just like him, that is what Burton's Joker wanted, I prefer Mark Hamill's Joker, just saying but is irrelevant.

I dont see any detective work in Snyders Batman,infact that guy refused to accept the existence of the Court of Owls even when they were standing in front of him

Batman issue number 1: Batman shows a great observation skills, discovering new information just by looking at the homicide victim.

Batman issue number 2 to 4: Batman uses forensic and deductive skills to find the Court's hideout.

Batman issue number 6: Batman weakened using his observation skills, distinguishes two different kinds of marble and uses his knownledge of the crystaline structure or that specific kind marble to scape, also tasting the water he discovered that the water came from the same river that reaches the batcave.

Batman issue number 7: He discovers the coumpound that let the court of owls to bring back to life Talon, and he discovers the new Dick's back story.

And so the list go on...

BTAS is'nt canon so I'm not sure why you're using a cartoon and comparing it with a film.

Batman TAT took some elements from the classic Batman and some others from Dennis O'Neil's run with the character, Batman TAS is the "classic" Batman, in other words, he is the best example of the most known stories of Batman for the average person.

And I'm honestly glad we're not getting any of those,I'm sick of moronic attempts to make guys like Black Mask,Hush,Freeze etc look relevant and classic based on some psychological disease.Tony Daniels horrid run on Batman has been filled with such elements.

I haven't read Tony Daniels Batman, so, I don't know how to answer to that comment.

I prefer the soldier/bond aspects of Batman over the horror aspects these days,I might have agreed with like 10 years ago but not anymore.

Well, those aspects, in my opinion, make Batman more "unique", without them what makes Batman different from characters like Iron Man or the Captain America.

God, The Nolan fans here.......

Avengers >>>>>>> TDK,

It's what you need and want in a comic book movie.

Nolans Batman... let me ask.. Can you see Nolan putting Clayface or Killer Croc in a film? No. He makes great movies. But he can't make the 'fantasy' that is in comic books into movies. I understand the direction Nolan is going in his Batman films, but to say they are the best comic films? No way. TMNT, Dick Tracy, Avengers..are way better comic films..

@entropy_aegis said:

Joker's definition of funny is drastically different from that of the average person.

I am aware of that fact...

Ledgers Joker had the same motivation that the character had in TKJ, he wanted to show that everyone had a dark side.

In the killing joke, he wanted the people to see the world as he sees the world, in The Dark Knight he wanted to prove that the people are animals and that they are just like him, both are different, one wants equality in madness and the other one wants to burn everything.

Burtons Joker wanted to wed Vale.

You already said that.

Joker venom means nothing and he does'nt use it as frequently in the comics as you might think.

Yeah, I know, but is part of the origin of the character, and I think that is ok to use it in the character when he first appears.

Did'nt Nolans Batman deduce that Ra's was gonna use the train?

Yes he did, but he had all a info, he just needed to say the answer, we can say that Fox was the one deduce most of Ra's' idea, and Bruce knew that the train and the city's water supply follow the same line, but I think that is Gotham's basic knownledge, so is not that great.

Did'nt he deduce that Dent had gone after Gordon's family?

I have to give this one to you, but man, it wasn't that difficult, the Joker was the one told him about Dent, and with his "celular technology" he easily found them, he didn't use detective skills for that.

Did'nt he deduce that Joker had been making the hostages look like thugs?

NO, he didn't, he flew over one of them and saw that he was the hostage.

Did'nt he deduce that Rachel was in trouble after he had caught Falcone?

That was obvious man, she has been after Falcone for ages, I think that everybody knew that she was in problems.

You want him to use a magnifying glass or something?

You don't need it to be a good detective.

And finally you're right those aspects do make him unique but they've been overused.

Meh, if by overused you mean rarely used, then you are right, no man, in Batman average comic is more used the preptime, the gadgets and the fighting skills, I rarely read a comic when they use the psychology of Batman in the right way, Arkham Asylum is a good example of a good Batman comic with good psychological elements.

@entropy_aegis said:

In TKJ he wanted to prove that anyone can become an insane animal,same goes for TDK.

Yeah, but that wasn't his point at all, he wanted people to suffer seeing what he has done, he wanted batman to see how the ships kill each other, and the people on one of the ships to get crazy when they realize what have they done, and even if they decide to not blow everything the Joker would kill them both anyway.

In the Killing Joke, he just wanted to drive Gordon to madness, to him to lose his spirit, but that is all, he did not kill Barbara, and he gave up so damn easy.

The gas was'nt necessary,it did'nt hinder Ledgers performance,seriously do you think that TDK would have been a superior movie had Ledger used a joy buzzer on Gambol?

In my opinion the greatest reason of Nolan's Batman is the fact that he tries so far to not make a comicbook movie, that is not Nolan's style, for that reason I don't like him, but I like him.

Those deduction examples I used are in line with Nolan's world,obviously they are not ZOMG awesome like the comics.But then what Batman does in the comics hardly make sense,he just comes to conclusions out of no where.These characteristics dont make or break the movie,if they did exist they would simply be fan service.

Sherlock Holmes un his novels and movies brings deductons that seem that came out nowhere but at the end it is just him showing a great amount of knownledge in every deduction, Nolan could have done the same thing, BATMAN FIRST APPEARENCE WAS IN DETECTIVE COMICS, I mean what the hell?...

Like I said read Daniels Batman,it has a lot of those psychological stuff,so much so that the new Black Mask might make you retarded.

Well, I also said that I haven't read any Daniels' Batman, and maybe he is not good at it.