What to do with ISIS's foreign fighters

News that at least two American citizens have been killed fighting for ISIS(Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) whilst up to several hundred British Muslims are also fighting for this jihadist group has prompted calls(not least from the "new Norman Tebbit"- London Mayor Boris "BoJo" Johnson, writing in last week's Sunday Telegraph) for them to be stripped of their UK citizenship or maybe even tried for "treason"(the fact that many of these fighters are British born rather than naturalized is presumably irrelevant).

A wag once noted that there is a quick, easy and usually wrong, solution to every problem. Firstly the question is: are we at war(in a formal state of armed hostilities) with ISIS? The answer to this is- NO( even though ISIS much like the Soviet Union during the Cold War has made its hostility clear to the "infidel" societies of the West). Although a number of British Muslims have joined and fought alongside the Taliban inside Afghanistan again NATO( including British as well as US forces), which is WAY more treasonous than anything done by the last Briton to be hanged for treason, William "Lord Haw-Haw" Joyce( he "only" broadcast pro-Nazi propaganda over Berlin radio and never took up arms against HM Forces per se), the idea of putting such captured Muslims on trial at the Old Bailey as "traitors" never seems to have occurred to British officials, not least because both Acts of Parliament dealing with treason- the "Treason Felony Act of 1848" and "The Treason Act of 1351"- are hopelessly outdated in the 21st century and the "War On Terror"( the whole idea of treating terrorism as treason seems to have been kicked around during the NI "Troubles" for the IRA but was wisely discarded when it was noted that the punishment for treason was either life imprisonment or death on the gallows).

And having been stripped of their British citizenship where would these now stateless "jihadists" go( denaturalization, as we saw in the 1958 US Supreme Court "Trop v Dulles", is a pretty harsh punishment- arguably cruel and unusual)

Perhaps the US has the wisest course of action- an American citizen who enlists in the armed forces of a foreign power risks losing/or automatically forfeits his/her American citizenship( even in the extremity of wartime, successive US Administrations are reluctant to prosecute its citizens on grounds of treason- prbably reminded by the Kings of Europe use of faked treason charges- as we saw with the 1942 US Supreme Court case of the U-Boat German saboteurs and their American accomplices(ex parte Quirin)- and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed in June 1953 on grounds of conspiracy to spy rather than treason- probably because their spying for the USSR took place when Russia was first our WW II ally and then Cold War enemy ). Of course it can be argued that ISIS is NOT a conventional foreign power and thus has no "armed forces" to enlist in. Apropos of those Britons who committed war crimes or crimes against humanity whilst fighting on ISIS's side in Syria/Iraq,(pace the videotapes of beheadings or massacres of captured Syrians, Yezidis and Christians they should be turned over to the International Criminal Court- ICC--which would have the advantage of NOT making their case an issue in next year's General Elections!

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

I think your over-thinking things to be honest. No one is going to really take Boris' statements seriously and rightfully so.

IMO British and US citizens fighting for ISIS should be stripped of their citizenship. As well as any other country.

TL;DR

In other news I just finished Dead Island. :3

After reading that I am still pretty unsure of what you think.

Personally I think there is no real effective way to deal with these people.

I think they should be stripped of their citizenship too and not be allowed into the country. As to where they would go? Why don't they stay with the people they fought with over there. These people don't deserve to come back. ISIS has committed war crimes over and over again and are killing innocent people who are not Muslim. I don't see why I should feel sorry for them and I hope they stay over there.

Then they just continue fighting and killing for this band of murderers. Now that I think about it life in prison is a fitting punishment for such a crime.

They should irrevocably lose their citizenship and every legal protection that citizenship provides.

Do they have oil?

Yes they should lose there citizenship. Also, the U.S. should be at war with ISIS. They are clearly an enemy.

What happens when they lose their citizenship? Then what? I agree, but then what? It won't change a thing. Nothing stops all of the illegals coming in, nothing stops ISIS fighters from returning.

Too bad we can't do a trial in absentia so that when they do step foot in the US, we can just execute the traitors. Until we can do that, revoking citizenship will have to suffice.

They will definitely pay soon enough. They picked the one wrong nation to fuck with. I mean, didn't they already see what America did to Al-Qaeda? We almost entirely wiped those scums off the face of the Earth. ISIS doesn't realize if they invade America, they won't get far. Unlike the muslims, almost every American owns some sort of firearm. :)

People like those that make up ISIS is probably the only kind of people I would prefer seeing shot on sight, regardless of where their passport say they come from.

1. Because they were clearly warped enough to go over there.
2. They have no valid excuse to be fighting
3. (Insert long list of atrocities their organization has committed on everyone who doesn't follow their extremist philosophy)
4. Going over there to fight and then come back again just seems like they treat it as some holiday
5. You never know what these whackjobs are going to do once they've unpacked. Lure more people over there? Gather money for them? Or blow something up in the middle of the city?

Al Qaeda is still alive. That is the problem with terrorism. You go into their country and kill them, it makes more people join their cause. We cannot afford to be bogged down in a neverednding war against a tactic. Also, who ever said they wanted to invade America? There is no way they would ever accomplish this, and they know it. They will use terror tactics to drain our country of resources and spread fear in the populace.

There's no real simple or obvious solution to this as I see it. The best we can really do is refuse them entry into their home country when they finish their "holiday" and pack them off to the Hague for trial as a war criminal.

Australia's had a few real sickos over there who've made the news, and somehow our border security is stopping others who were heading over there. But the only real way to stop them is if they're being blatant about their intentions- the latest clowns had wads of cash, camo clothes & ISIS literature in their bags, and were probably on watch lists already.

The scariest part is that they are involving their kids in their atrocities. The news just showed footage of them training kids to use AKs that were bigger than them, one little kid was filmed answering a quiz on what you do to outsiders- "Kill the infidels, send them to hell, etc." They aren't old enough to know their multiplication tables, and they're being drilled in this rubbish.

Worst was the father who brought his two kids with him and had them pose for photos with severed heads... 8 years old and helping dad desecrate a corpse, it honestly leaves me speechless...

Coordinate with Turkey, Syria, Iran and the security forces of Iraq.

We intervene with a ground invasions and we have to stay another ten years.ISIS is those four nations' problem as of now. The United States is buffered by all of Asia to the East and the Pacific Ocean and all of Europe to the West along with the Atlantic.

ISIS is not a threat to the United States. As far as the Americans who went off to fight abroad, I'm sure the CIA keeping tabs on them and will hold them accountable if they ever return. You can't revoke their citizenship; I don't think that's how America works.

Welcome to the club. You're only like 3 years late. :P

That's all great, but what happens to the American journalist hostages? or to your embassies and tourists in the middle east?

Or if you magic all US citizens back to America, would the US be content to just sit back and watch rampant atrocities and war crimes being committed?

well said herc

@cave_duck: well, ISIS is only located in Iraq and Syria and not all over the Middle East. I don't think we have to worry about our tourists unless they're stupid enough to go to Iraq and Syria.

The American embassy has been locked in Syria since 2011, and the Iraqi one is in Baghdad. ISIS, for all the fear mongering that the American Media keeps forcing down our throats, has yet to face a fully coordinated military and hold it's own enough for me to think Baghdad is in trouble. Even the Kurdish Peshmerga was able to hold them off; I don't think they want anything to do with the much bigger and better armed Shia militants. So, don't worry about that.

As far as the hostages, all you can do is negotiate and see what you have to give for their release. You certainly don't go in guns blazing risking thousands of lives for the lives of a few when you could try more peaceful tactics.

As far as The United States just sitting back and "watching" atrocities"; blow it out your butt, buddy. The United States just sits and watches horrible things happen all the time, what makes Iraq different?

We we have a cure for Ebola, but we've yet to give it to West Africa. We also sat by and watch the Rwandian Genocide and many other African conflicts. Why do we care now? Oh, that's right, Iraq has oil and our Defense contractors see this as a way to make a lot of money.

I wish Americans would learn about the complexity of the world and realize that the majority if the world looks at America not as Superman. We usually make situations worst when we intervene.

Being the mediator for those four nations, who have a vested interest in getting rid of ISIS is enough. Trust me, Iran and Turkey are no jokes when it comes to military might. If they need Air Strike support, they can ask us, but Iran has a pretty good Air Force.

@darthaznable: I work at my own pace!

You wanna know how screwed up Canada is over this?

6 guys from my hometown (Calgary) were killed in Syria fighting for ISIS. 6 guys, out of 500 or so that went over. Canada has become a huge hotbed for Islamist recruiters because, unlike the US, we still have fairly open immigration laws and a huge (in comparison to the states) Sunni Muslim population that is becoming increasingly radicalized.

"But RD, everyone loves Canada, we'll never be attacked by terrorists"

Reasons for Canada to be attacked by terrorists:

-Second largest proven reserves of Oil in the entire world, which in turn supply the US with over HALF (52%) of its foreign petroluem supplies

-Canadian soldiers fought and killed the Taliban in their hometown of Kandahar for 10 years. 2500 Canadians fought off 10-12 000 Taliban and "soiled the holy land"

-Canada is perhaps the strongest western supporter of Israel. We supply Israel with almost a million tons of military equipment every year. Israeli and Canadian soldiers regularly do exchanges. We are Israel's largest trading partner, with $43 Billion a year in trade.

So, I think it's time everyone gets their crap together to take down these people.

HOW TO STOP ISIS/ISOL TERRORISTS

Ok, thanks for your friendly banter.... :/

I'm just pointing out the simple fact that the media is going to keep showing these atrocities as long as they can get airplay, and politicans everywhere are already caving to that pressure. America will be no different.

Australia is already "helping" by assisting in dropping weapons into the area. That was a great idea with a proven track record; like when we gave weapons to those friendly Taliban guys in Afghanistan, and when we did it in Iraq already, so what could possibly go wrong?

Like it or not, theres a large portion of the world, and America itself, who see the US as the "world police", it may not be smart, but it is still a widespread perception.

By the way, I worked with and knew people who witnessed the Rwandan genocide first hand when the stinking UN threw them into it. So I'm aware of what happens when we just "sit back and watch"

It needs to be taken more seriously.

...who ya gonna call?...

@paracelsus:

Lets follow the Pope's word, and bring this ordeal to an halt.

I heard that they were aiming to assassinate the Pope, and I was like...

"AAAWWW, HELL NAW!!!"

d^_^b

Alright

seems to be a mess and now you're in the political silly season

take Roger Stone with a pinch of salt he's in camp Trump, he's writing on this 'Huma Abedin ' character now

...but then again you don't know how big the mess is, during Reagan's admin for example, bombs and guns were given to jihadists, to attack the USSR Russian Empire....years later these same jihadists would form groups like the Taliban, Al-queda and other radical muslim groups and start attacking the US and its allies

Have a judge and jury hear a case, if they are found guilty strip them of their citizenship and bomb the crap out of them

BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Never change, Jonez.

Kill them, of course. Or made especially for them prison with forced labour in Iraq or Syria and imprison'em there for the rest of their lives so they'd be forced to rebuild what they destroyed. How it's even question?

Not sure if this is good for Democrats, Trump might look better, Fox are gone nuts with this

For the record I'm pretty sure Democrats or Hillary may have called out Islamic nations before but its election season, so Fox is going to fling dirt and see what sticks

Many far-left European nations are imploding with the immigration/refugee thing...also they have a problem with 2nd, 3rd generation people who live in separate society and have yet to assimilate into the normal culture

Sweden is run by idiots

Same thing we do with the peoples that fight for Israel (Nothin').

Oh this topic is back up I see.

Why? What was the purpose of posting this?

get civilians out of the country and then nuke the so called fighters

@hudyman: What was the purpose of replying to a two year old post?

@jonez_: Whoops sorry, I didn't see the date.

They should have their citizenships revoked immediately.

Inside the air base that held out against Isis for three years – and the death and destruction that was left behind

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-in-syria-inside-the-air-base-that-held-out-against-islamic-state-for-two-years-and-the-death-a7117431.html

The relief of Isis-besieged Kuweires air base last year after an astonishing two-year hold-out was a major symbolic blow against Isis in Syria. Robert Fisk, the first Western journalist to visit the site, finds tales both of death and defiance

Kill, strip them of their citizen ship, then arrest them.

In that order.

I have a better use for them... and all the contestants of reality shows and talent competitions:

Some are good for fighting, others for dying, we need both... and some lions.

but how to 'win' and how long must these wars go on?