If it means getting information from scumbag terrorist, than what's the problem? These terrorist have harmed the lives of thousands of Americans and put our whole country at risk, as well as others. For what some of these guys have done, they deserved to be tortured.
Torture something that is already banned by the Constitution, and the information garnered from it has been show to be incredibly shaky most of the time, so, yeah.
one problem is that we often don't have proof that the people getting tortured are terrorists, some are, but when people get sent to guantanamo bay they don't get trial, they just need to be accused and in some cases that will be enough for torture
The problem with Mr. Cherry's quote is that people with substantially larger amounts of experience in crime than him like specialized FBI directors, CIA workers, etc. have testified through experience that torture isn't a very effective means of information gaining, and a good deal of the information gained tends to be faulty, so besides breaking the law of the land(If we talk about the US here), using torture is trying something that doesn't work that well hoping all works out.
How do you even define what's right and wrong? Morals are what make a difference. Treat the enemy how you'd want to be treated -for your own moral's sake. If a soldier doesn't care, I'm not going to blame him for it.
The problem with Mr. Cherry's quote is that people with substantially larger amounts of experience in crime than him like specialized FBI directors, CIA workers, etc. have testified through experience that torture isn't a very effective means of information gaining, and a good deal of the information gained tends to be faulty, so besides breaking the law of the land(If we talk about the US here), using torture is trying something that doesn't work that well hoping all works out.
It's not like the guy has ever been captured himself... Just talking big is all.
How do you even define what's right and wrong? Morals are what make a difference. Treat the enemy how you'd want to be treated -for your own moral's sake. If a soldier doesn't care, I'm not going to blame him for it.
The problem with Mr. Cherry's quote is that people with substantially larger amounts of experience in crime than him like specialized FBI directors, CIA workers, etc. have testified through experience that torture isn't a very effective means of information gaining, and a good deal of the information gained tends to be faulty, so besides breaking the law of the land(If we talk about the US here), using torture is trying something that doesn't work that well hoping all works out.
It's not like the guy has ever been captured himself... Just talking big is all.
But is he wrong. If the information saves even Canadian, or British, or Norweigian, or American soldier, is it not worth it?
They managed to cap Osama with info gleaned from torture.
one problem is that we often don't have proof that the people getting tortured are terrorists, some are, but when people get sent to guantanamo bay they don't get trial, they just need to be accused and in some cases that will be enough for torture
Agreed, people who are tortured will eventually confess to anything. Couple that with the lack of evidence needed to select your "suspect" and there you have it.
There's also the aspect that we're supposed to be the "good guys" and a part of that is not lowering yourself to the level of your enemy. Or you could take the practical side which is that by torturing your prisoner it guarantees that any of your troops who get captured will definitely get tortured as an act of revenge.
But is he wrong. If the information saves even Canadian, or British, or Norweigian, or American soldier, is it not worth it?
They managed to cap Osama with info gleaned from torture.
What if one of the soldiers get captured by the terrorists? Do you think it's alright for them to torture him as well? It is saving some of their lives, after all.
If it means getting information from scumbag terrorist, than what's the problem? These terrorist have harmed the lives of thousands of Americans and put our whole country at risk, as well as others. For what some of these guys have done, they deserved to be tortured.
If it means getting information from scumbag terrorist, than what's the problem? These terrorist have harmed the lives of thousands of Americans and put our whole country at risk, as well as others. For what some of these guys have done, they deserve to be tortured.
I agree with everything you say, but I don't believe he government can be trusted with this responsibility. Can you think of many politicians you trust? No? Then why would you think it's a good idea to give them the ability to torture people?
Agreed, we should torture absolutely everyone, since everyone is a dishonest scumbag of some sort. How is my claim validated? Cause I think so. How do I know this? Err I just do, this motivations, their ideologies, their justifications and reasoning, the people who mislead and manipulate them, or mislead and manipulated me, who cares about that stuff, I don't have time for details and facts, lets just watercute and electroboard the hell out of brown people not only will it make me feel better and safer, but I can justify it in a way so that its making other people feel safer and by other people I mean people my family and friends and thats definitely the most important thing. Not that torture's reliability in getting results is poor thats not that important nor is the complicated ethical issues as far as the humane treatment of others and its short term and long term consequences.
Basically its safer if we just torture everyone, statistically if people are near death and locked up no one will have the energy let alone ability to hurt other people, that won't just include terrorists but petty criminals as well. Yey!
I don't have time for details and facts, lets just watercute and electroboardthe hell out of brown people not only will it make me feel better and safer, .
Basically its safer if we just torture everyone, statistically if people are near death and locked up no one will have the energy let alone ability to hurt other people, that won't just include terrorists but petty criminals as well. Yey!
The only reason I'd say torture is bad is because, according to those who've seen it, it doesn't get true information. I think some forms of torture should be OK though.
I'm against torture for the same reason that I'm against death penalty :
You start with the idea that the guy is guilty, but what if we find that he is innocent ?
Then, if this is only for the sake of information, there is better way, if this is for revenge, then we aren't better that those who fight and we are just hypocrites.
If it means getting information from scumbag terrorist, than what's the problem? These terrorist have harmed the lives of thousands of Americans and put our whole country at risk, as well as others. For what some of these guys have done, they deserved to be tortured.
The problem is that the CIA torture methods achieved absolutely nothing beneficial.
@rd189: Sorry about taking a little while to get back to this. Sure, Osama Bin Laden was eliminated through information but we have to consider if that is an outlier rather than the average. The CIA is currently struggling to show that much useful information was gained from their use of more extreme torture methods. If you want further confirmation, look at what Ali Soufan(One of the FBI's most adept interrogators) had to say about torturing an Al Qaeda suspect Abu Zubaydah and how he was producing useful information until he was bombarded by extreme tactics like waterboarding.
"When they are in pain, people will say anything to get the pain to stop. Most of the time, they will lie, make up anything to make you stop hurting them. That means the information you're getting is useless."
I'm all for saving lives, but I think we can do through more verifiable/proven successful methods and ones that are less immoral as well, along with not violating the US Consitution.
If it means teaching other countries that their greedy, scumbag, warmongers, politicians can't just invade other countries and kill indiscriminately, than what's the problem? These first world countries like America have harmed the lives of thousands millions of other countries innocents and put dozens of whole country at risk, as well as others. For what some of these guys have done, they deserved to be terrorized.
See how easy it is to flip the script? Except with above and… certain other sentiments shared in this thread its not that simple or easy. If you think it is that simple and easy then there is a strong chance you don't really understand the issue. Its complicated, it weighs the concepts of freedom and safety against each other, it involves defining what is humane as far as individuals basic human rights and urgency versus moderation. Another thing if you live in a first world country, you don't have to worry about terrorism. Terrorism although frightening and the killing of innocents is something that is very horrible, statistically its something you not only do not need to worry about but actually worry about too much. Home accidents, drowning, obesity, car accidents, are much bigger dangers to you and your loved ones. Don't misunderstand news/media coverage as an accurate reflection of reality, news ironically much like reality TV is only suppose to show you the notable stuff, and freak stuff etc. As to the actual acts well, broad complicated subject, may be instances where it might be ethical and beneficial to more people overall, but you have to weigh that against situations its neither of those and/or the opposite and don't forget the attitudes and motivations people can have for such things can be terribly flawed and ignorant.
I don't have time for details and facts, lets just watercute and electroboardthe hell out of brown people not only will it make me feel better and safer, .
Basically its safer if we just torture everyone, statistically if people are near death and locked up no one will have the energy let alone ability to hurt other people, that won't just include terrorists but petty criminals as well. Yey!
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