Hmm... hard to say for me. Because, I believe in the law and, while it may enact justice, it is not justice in itself. Before I continue on, are you asking for examples of our concept of justice or our interpretation of the concept of justice or both?
Justice to me is that person who does the crime get the punishment the crime deserves. While I personally believe the current punishments according to the law are not severe enough, I know that I also didn't study the laws and know nothing in detail about it. So it's up to the people that do have knowledge about the subject to make the final decissions.
Hmm... hard to say for me. Because, I believe in the law and, while it may enact justice, it is not justice in itself. Before I continue on, are you asking for examples of our concept of justice or our interpretation of the concept of justice or both?
Both.
@SC said:
Fixing something thats wrong with as much intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge one person, system, or group can muster.
How does one fix something that cannot be reversed or rectified? A circumstance where no party can be compensated?
Fixing something thats wrong with as much intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge one person, system, or group can muster.
How does one fix something that cannot be reversed or rectified? A circumstance where no party can be compensated?
I'd assume your taking fixing as meaning, in this context, your chosen context returning something to an original or near original state. I have a TV? Its broken? I get it fixed, and now its as it was before it was broken? If the person who broke my TV, paid for it to be fixed, and compensated me somehow based on how long I was without it, convenience and so on. That's not the context I am speaking of with fix. Somethings can't be reversed, in fact, I'd say most things can't. This is where I would refer to the latter part of my statement. As much as one person, group, or system can muster. Lets imagine, someone very poor, broke my TV. They can't pay for it to be fixed. Its not that they don't want to? They might sincerely, with honor and duty, and concern and care, because they acknowledge and realize what they did was wrong and caused damage to your property and they are basically away in that sense. What if though? They were good with their hands, and so they decided to fix your TV? Then they decided to fix your radio, that was broken already, a few years back. So in both our examples so far, I would say justice has been served. Small justice, but still.
Now, what if that person, who broke the TV, was the same as above, but he also wasn't good with his hands at all? Well, I mean, what can he do? As far as your TV goes? As far as he goes? He can't get your TV to be returned to its original or near original state, but he might find ways to compensate you. There are other things that he is capable of. He might ask you if its okay of he pays you back in a few years. He might ask for forgiveness. Personally with myself? If I knew what he did was an accident? That he was otherwise apologetic and sorry for his actions? Aware of his actions and apologized for them? Justice would be served. That person, in that context, can't assemble the means to fix what he broke, at least not in a way, that he fixes it so its returned to its original, or near original state.
Lets switch up the scenario a bit? Lets say the guy knew he broke my TV, and he didn't care? He knew his actions (lets say getting drunk, and then getting angry and silly and clowning around, and trying to balance my TV on his nose) but he just dismissed his actions and didn't care. Well, I won't be getting any justice from him. To me? Its probably going to be because he is lacking somehow. Probably honor in this case. Possibly intelligence as well. If I want justice in this situation? I will have to look for it somewhere else. Say the police? The law? This case is pretty straightforward, especially if I have evidence and the guy is willing to admit what he did but just refuses to care or fix my TV. I;d guess that the way most laws are set up, is that I would get some type of justice here.
To change the scenario again, lets say that the person who broke the TV, was a child? Maybe 8? Maybe he was walking past my home, and a bunch of dogs ran after him and he was scared for his life, he sought refuge in my home, trips over a cord, and breaks my TV. Given his age? Circumstance? Variables on things like knowledge, education, awareness? All things we can consider. Essentially his means to fix what he broke, differs from the earlier examples, especially the drunk adult. Maybe its going to take him a lot longer to fix the TV, since he is only a child? Maybe justice will come in the form of his parents?
I chose a sort of tricky hypothetical to use as an analogy, because lets face it, in the grand scheme of things, TV's aren't that hard to replace generally... and people don't care that much about them relatively. Most groups, systems, and even people? Can fix that situation done there. Live though? Innocent life shot dead? As far as well know, not all the people combined, or a system, or a group, can muster what it is required to bring back a person so were they are dead? Broken? Will they then by alive? Or fixed. Now I know this speaking as an individual? Nothing can bring back a loved one from death. Actual death to, just to avoid any ambiguity surrounding medical care or quick life saving actions. Still, the person responsible? If a person is responsible, its about what they can do? What can they do, to fix their actions, and I know they wouldn't be able to bring a loved one back, but I am sure with their applied intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge? They could do something. If they used all of their intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge to do something to try to fix what they did? Maybe not just one thing but a bunch of things? Then to me that's justice. Lets say they had several mental issues and violent tendencies? One act would be a willingness to be put into a mental institute to get better. Lets say they were acting unrepentant? Well, sort of like i said before, I would not get justice from them, I would get justice hopefully justice from the system of law.
Of course, there isn't always a person responsible. Might just be an accident? So many variables right there? Well, I don't think anybody holds special exclusivity in trying to fix wrong doings, some people use their own intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge everyday to try and bring small amounts of justice into the world despite not being the person who made the mistake.
That's sort of to address your first question. Well as far as reversed. Somethings, like say, a persons death, can't be revered. By anyone, except maybe god. Still, there are still an infinity of things one can do, even? If one is not the person who made the mistake. We have monuments and days and celebrations, and tributes and memorials to lots of people they have died. Its a tiny bit of justice. Enough justice? Maybe, just the best an individual, group of person can do, ideally. Here's a small mundane example. I forget a friends birthday once? I place a lot of... emphasis in birthdays. Friends and even random people. So I felt really bad. I can't go back and suddenly remember, but the next year I ended up like really overcompensating with her birthday. I treated it as if it was four collectively birthdays. I really wanted to correct what I had done four times over? Or to put as an equivalent? Given my values of honor? Awareness Which are variables? Given it was my friend? If I broke her TV? Justice could only come, if I repaid her with four TVS, (or maybe a TV four times as large. Since that's more practical) On the flip side, if a friend broke my TV, an apology would be all I need for "justice" but I am talking really relatively simple hypotheticals. I am aware things get more complicated with more complicated problems, and errors and offenses. (except that would require longer posts and points than what I am currently typing and I am not even sure anyone has read this far, and so I am only typing this for my own benefit.
Oh, so I also don't think there is something that can't be rectified. You give me an example, and I;d try and give you a way that someone could use intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge to rectify the situation. Likewise I think a party can always be compensated. At least to some extent. At least it can be tried, or attempted. Just again, depends how intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge are applied. If a drunk teen, jumps in a car and murders a small girl aged 10? Little to no justice would be served if he spent years studying in a forest trying to learn revivals spells. Though maybe if he did we would have to question his intelligence and education and awareness. He might not be the only one to blame. More people might be required to act to bring justice. Then again? Jail? He deprived a girl of the right to live? He loses his right to freedom. What if while he was in jail, he started educating himself to a point he could advance the safety features in cars so that in the future cars would have technology that would prevent accidents (because he had no intent to kill, I'll refer to it as an accident) which would save many lives? Well, if that's as much as that person can muster as far as trying to fix a wrong? I'd say that was justice. He didn't bring back the life of the girl, and to the parents, maybe nothing, would ever be enough, but what else could he do? Even his death? Well, that might be justice, but I would see greater justice? in his actions of being denied freedom? Then educating himself so that in the future? More lives would be saved. Then again... the person would have to be fairly subjectively high in certain areas like intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge and or remorseful (which I would say falls under honor) change the circumstance and things get fuzzier. Plus how do I know all this stuff? Well, its a hypothetical, I get a gods eye point of view, since I am making all of this up. The over riding point is still the same though. It just requires more effort for people to apply in reality. The more intelligent, educated, aware, honorable and knowledgeable people are I think? The easier and clearer things are.
I'm not sure whether I already said this or not, so likewise, you would have to give me any example of when a circumstance where no party can be compensated, because I don't think such a circumstance exists, even before you add in the inherent quality present with applying as much intelligence, education, awareness, honor and knowledge as one, person, or system, or group can. So, in truth, revisiting my initial statement everything still holds true. I am semi proud of my word. Its just worth bearing in mind that attempting to fix a problem, might end up with having a solution, which isn't about reversing or erasing a problem. So things were as they once were. Life isn't static anyway. Its organic. Everything effects everything else to some degree. Can't really deal with any absolutes as far as justice goes.
(TL;DR @ myself and statement) Possibly lol but justice is important.
I hope that helps clarify, and apologies I couldn't be more succinct, I honestly believe that due to circumstance and context, there can be a lot of complications with the idea of justice)
Capital Punishment as dispensed by a group of qualified individuals chosen by members of society who pass a general intelligence exam. Stupid people are not allowed anywhere near this system.
Everyone in this thread is posting how does the Justice "works" in real life, but NO ONE human can give us Justice, Justice is just a cute thought to bring order, but such thing as a REAL AND PURE Justice doesn't exist...
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