@JonSmith: actually i have known people to steal things just because they felt like stealing and because they could. They didn't need it, they could have continued their lives just fine without, they knew it was wrong but they did because it was simply their choice
What is true evil?
@SmoothJammin said:
The more interesting question is perhaps, are people born evil or do they turn over time
Ahh the classic debate of nature versus nurture. Well to me a personality is not genetic, however at some level the way we turn out personality wise has a slight set of triggers in our path. What dictates a persons personality and moral code is what they experience in their lives and how they are raised. Here's the thing though, brain chemistry is genetic (for the most part) which means that you are more likely to act differently then a different person who had the exact same back round and upbringing as you because of differences in brain chemistry. It is a very complex and interesting subject.
@SmoothJammin said:
The more interesting question is perhaps, are people born evil or do they turn over time
I say neither, people aren't born evil and they don't turn evil, they are born with the choice to do evil and then they live a life choosing evil choices, however whether your genetics or your environment cause influence the choices you make, thats a question
@Agent9149: Yes, but knowing it was wrong, and THINKING it was wrong are two very different things. Knowing means they knew, from a lawful stand point, it was bad. But did they morally think it was actually wrong? No, they wanted it, they took it, they didn't get caught. So it was right, from their point of view. The only reason they considered it wrong on ANY level was because their are laws in place where men with guns come and lock you up if you get caught. That's not knowing what's wrong, that's fear of what happens if you got caught.
...
Was that too confusing? I think I rambled too much.
I say people are born sinners... I don't know if I want to say evil.
@Agent9149: But in that case, they're not doing it because THEY THINK it's wrong, they're doing it because SOCIETY thinks it's wrong, and they want to show off. They want attention, that's their reason for doing it. They think they deserve that attention, so they do something they know society would frown upon to get that attention. They don't think it's wrong, it's just a means to an end to them. So again, the OP's definition of 'someone who does something wrong knowing it's wrong' doesn't hold up, because they don't believe what they're doing, to them personally, is wrong.
@Agent9149: Evil is still evil. xP
To me evil is someone that can rape a women, kill children, torture people, and enjoy it all. Like if they themselves don't even have a reason for doing it. They're crazy. But that's also evil.
I would say that all morals are subjective and so the only definition of evil would be someone doing something because they feel it to be wrong.
Heartlessly committing "bad" acts intentionally for the sake of personal amusement, going by law and such. But in my personal opinion, there is no "good" or "evil". What makes others think one is evil is that being's actions.
According to my friend:
In theory, (or at least some theories), there is no "true evil", only misguidance to certain levels (and to extreme ones, too).
But in practice, heartlessness, doing horrendous things (or things against the law or whatever) intentionally for the sake of enjoyment, and because one knows he/she can, etc.
wearing white after labor day.
Dude, no.Religion.
Well said.Oh lord. Someone HAD to say religion and then start a pointless argument. THANKS, guy.
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
@TERMINATORXX said:
@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Then why say we are in your original comment?
@guttridgeb: Ok I think you misunderstood what my statement was... I said people that do those evil things for the fact they dont believe in God... I didnt say people who dont believe in God " Period. " are evil just those who do evil ( which dont believe in God. ) are the true evil ones..
If you don't believe in God, I respect your opinion and I do not think you're a bad person just because of that... I don't know you personally anyways. plus as a christian, I am nobody to judge.... Only God can Judge...
You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?
@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?
Ok Yes God has given people instruction and to kill and kidnap or whatever, but that is a Private instruction...If I went out today and killed someone would that be a terrible sin? Yes because God did not give me that instruction to kill, kidnap, steal or any of that... The bible also says in the 10 commandments " Thou Shall not Kill " Thats means those shall not kill just to kill....God has not spoken with me and asked me to commit murder or anything so me, you or anyone has no right taken someones life just to take it...
Yes you can be a very good person and still not believe in God, their are million airs, billion airs and so on who arent saved for the fact they've not accepted christ as their savior...being rich doesnt mean someone is saved, just like I said on a previous posts, I know people in real life who have told me personally they are athiest and I cannot see them going to hell, But I am not God, I cannot make that call for those people... God gave us the free will to do what we wish and believe what we want... I cant put my hands on these different believers and force them to believe in Jesus christ because that would come back on me one day...
As far as the police go I agree they save human and help others because its their Job, not because they believe in God and then again their are some christian cops without a doubt.... The bible says their are more people going to the lake of fire then saved ones and i'll tell you what... I believe it, because within the last 7 years or longer, I've been starting to run into alot more Godless people than what I did when I was a kid... plus their are more people around the world who don't believe in the son of man which is Jesus Christ...
1. It's still God telling people to Kill and Kidnap though... whether it's a Private or Public Instruction is somewhat irrelevant. Also The Ten Commandments really speak of "Thou Shalt Not Murder" it's interpreted "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but sometimes God asks his People to Kill... Murder deals directly with Killing those who are Innocent.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?Ok Yes God has given people instruction and to kill and kidnap or whatever, but that is a Private instruction...If I went out today and killed someone would that be a terrible sin? Yes because God did not give me that instruction to kill, kidnap, steal or any of that... The bible also says in the 10 commandments " Thou Shall not Kill " Thats means those shall not kill just to kill....God has not spoken with me and asked me to commit murder or anything so me, you or anyone has no right taken someones life just to take it...
Yes you can be a very good person and still not believe in God, their are million airs, billion airs and so on who arent saved for the fact they've not accepted christ as their savior...being rich doesnt mean someone is saved, just like I said on a previous posts, I know people in real life who have told me personally they are athiest and I cannot see them going to hell, But I am not God, I cannot make that call for those people... God gave us the free will to do what we wish and believe what we want... I cant put my hands on these different believers and force them to believe in Jesus christ because that would come back on me one day...
As far as the police go I agree they save human and help others because its their Job, not because they believe in God and then again their are some christian cops without a doubt.... The bible says their are more people going to the lake of fire then saved ones and i'll tell you what... I believe it, because within the last 7 years or longer, I've been starting to run into alot more Godless people than what I did when I was a kid... plus their are more people around the world who don't believe in the son of man which is Jesus Christ...
2. The Free Will issue is Interesting... if I recall there are passages that say that The God of this World has Blinded the Minds of the Unbelievers so that they Can Not see the Glorious Light of the Gospel and the Glory of Christ... that's in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4... the question would be then... is if a Supernatural Force is Deceiving the Minds of People so that they can not see God and his Glorious Light... then how can they choose to see what is not available to be seen ?
3. Alright, but again you did not answer my initial question... If God Loved "The World"... then why didn't he Save the World as a Whole ? And considering the passage like what I gave in 2 Corinthians 4:4... this eludes to the reason why there are so many Godless People as you say... if The God of this World is Blinding People so that they can not see or understand the Gospel... then how does God expect to get a majority saved through this Message ? God loved the World right ? So why is 80 - 90 percent of The World gonna burn if he loves it so much and there is a Deceiver on the Earth that can thwart his Saving Message ?
Why not move the religious debate to the appropriate thread?
In terms of evil there is some moral ambiguity of course. Is is evil to kill a man in cold blood if he intended to kill a thousand people? Some would say yes, some would say no. Evil is not that ambiguous that our moral centers cannot tell though that certain things are bad.
@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. It's still God telling people to Kill and Kidnap though... whether it's a Private or Public Instruction is somewhat irrelevant. Also The Ten Commandments really speak of "Thou Shalt Not Murder" it's interpreted "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but sometimes God asks his People to Kill... Murder deals directly with Killing those who are Innocent.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?Ok Yes God has given people instruction and to kill and kidnap or whatever, but that is a Private instruction...If I went out today and killed someone would that be a terrible sin? Yes because God did not give me that instruction to kill, kidnap, steal or any of that... The bible also says in the 10 commandments " Thou Shall not Kill " Thats means those shall not kill just to kill....God has not spoken with me and asked me to commit murder or anything so me, you or anyone has no right taken someones life just to take it...
Yes you can be a very good person and still not believe in God, their are million airs, billion airs and so on who arent saved for the fact they've not accepted christ as their savior...being rich doesnt mean someone is saved, just like I said on a previous posts, I know people in real life who have told me personally they are athiest and I cannot see them going to hell, But I am not God, I cannot make that call for those people... God gave us the free will to do what we wish and believe what we want... I cant put my hands on these different believers and force them to believe in Jesus christ because that would come back on me one day...
As far as the police go I agree they save human and help others because its their Job, not because they believe in God and then again their are some christian cops without a doubt.... The bible says their are more people going to the lake of fire then saved ones and i'll tell you what... I believe it, because within the last 7 years or longer, I've been starting to run into alot more Godless people than what I did when I was a kid... plus their are more people around the world who don't believe in the son of man which is Jesus Christ...
2. The Free Will issue is Interesting... if I recall there are passages that say that The God of this World has Blinded the Minds of the Unbelievers so that they Can Not see the Glorious Light of the Gospel and the Glory of Christ... that's in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4... the question would be then... is if a Supernatural Force is Deceiving the Minds of People so that they can not see God and his Glorious Light... then how can they choose to see what is not available to be seen ?
3. Alright, but again you did not answer my initial question... If God Loved "The World"... then why didn't he Save the World as a Whole ? And considering the passage like what I gave in 2 Corinthians 4:4... this eludes to the reason why there are so many Godless People as you say... if The God of this World is Blinding People so that they can not see or understand the Gospel... then how does God expect to get a majority saved through this Message ? God loved the World right ? So why is 80 - 90 percent of The World gonna burn if he loves it so much and there is a Deceiver on the Earth that can thwart his Saving Message ?
1. God is God, He can do anything he wants, I cannot whatso ever tell God what to do....EVER....I honestly havent read the bible in awhile and im gonna have to start reading again because I cant remember what Gods purpose was for those.... Alot of people do not understand God including me, but people always wondered why God allows so many evil things to happen in this world.. well the bible tells you Satan Is God of this World in Corinthians and how he has decieved so many people.... I always wondered why God created Satan if Yeah Satans gonna be a right hand Angel of his for a time being, but why create Satan if hes gonna rebell against you GOD? Well the truth is, We dont know and thats none of out concern, the bible will tell you that everything is a purpose and a reason for everything that happens... Yeah their was a country that was getting full of gays and in the bible God I guess took out most of the country because Gays were getting too overpopulated.... You gotta remember God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve...with two men or two women you cannot have kids and thats why God meant for it to be man and woman.... Now back to the murder topic, A true christian would never kill just to kill the way I see it... I honestly dont know why God asks those people to kill or kidnap, I knew and read it, but I forget.
2. Yes that is Corintians that I just mentioned Satan is " God of this World " What the blindness means is those people are blind not as in they cant see with their eyes, but because they chose to follow Satans path, Satan mind plays people and the bible will tell you we're going to have a rapture and all of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our savior are gonna be out of here However, those who are left here, doesnt mean they're going to hell it means they didnt accept christ as their savior...After the rapture their will be 7 years Trubulation, Now what that means is the Antichrist is gonna be here and he will do Miracles similar to what Jesus did such as make blind people see, make death people hear, heal sick people...etc...etc...etc and so on... once he does those miracles, people will fall for him and The Antichrist/Satan is going to do those Miracles and show off his powers to try to convince everybody that hes the real God and alot of people will fall for it... Just like the laws will change and in order to buy who sell you will have to take Satans mark which is " 666 " and it will have to be lazered in either your right hand or your forhead and some people who have been preached too about God and the rapture will realise all their christian friends are gone.. They will assume their friends were right about God and the rapture taken place and why billions of people have died like the bible explained which they chose to ignore and once they find out they have to take a mark like the bible talks about and what their christian friends talked to them about, they are gonna realise they were wrong about the son of man not existing and if they get caught by the law not taking the mark of the beast, they will be on death row, for example they will go to Jail, then they go to trial and they will ask " Did this man take the mark " they will say " No he did not. " then the judge or whoever will say " Take him and cut his head off. " the bible gives interesting information about this.
3. I honestly have wondered that myself... God says that their will not be one human in the whole world that will live a life without hearing his name for example, in India they worship cows, some places in Egypt they worship Cats from what i've heard and those people who worshipped animals, Boota, Gondy and so on will be preached too atleast a few times during their life time by people who believe in God, their are Jesus believers all around the world in every country and everyone will hear the name of God and as far as being saved goes.. Its like an awfering, I'm talking to you about God and you have a choice to believe what I say is true by reading it in the bible for yourself and you also have the right to believe its fake or whatever... You yourself King Saturn know of God, so im not saying you arent saved, but lets say for example you arent, on the day of judgement if God judged you, you cannot use as an excuse " Well God I never heard of you so I didnt know you existed " God might tell you " Noo. that is not true, you've read my words in the bible a guy name TERMINATORXX on that Comic Vine website you loved chatted explained a little things about me, but you chose to ignore it and not care. "
See you have to understand God also says in the 10 Commandments that he is a Jealous God and he wants no one and I mean no one to have another God before them, another Idol or anything, he wants us to worship him and him only...
Now I have watched on TV A Preacher said that hell is on this earth, everyone goes through evil times and the closest their is to hell or the lake of fire is right here on this Earth... I kinda see it that way because when my Dad was very sick before he passed away, he was in so much pain I knew he had his hell on this Earth...I kind of think Hell very well could be on this Earth, however the bible says Earth and Hell are two different places... Earth is a testimony to determin if you go to heaven or hell when you die...
@RazzaTazz said:
Why not move the religious debate to the appropriate thread?
In terms of evil there is some moral ambiguity of course. Is is evil to kill a man in cold blood if he intended to kill a thousand people? Some would say yes, some would say no. Evil is not that ambiguous that our moral centers cannot tell though that certain things are bad.
Well yeah, but everyone has different beliefs and yes Christian will never kill just to kill..Ever... People who do kill just to kill I consider Evil and its Satan messing with their heads, but again thats my personal belief and no, not everyone thinks like me... I agree the religious convo's getting off topic, sorry Saturn, but if you wanna coninue this convo pm me...
@RazzaTazz said:
@TERMINATORXX: Or move to the religious thread.
Interesting then, I guess you don't believe in free will
I don't believe in free will? Have you read any of my posts? I believe I've talked about free will atleast once or twice... About God giving us the free will to chose what we want to believe and free will to do what we want to do?
I don't think their are Religious threads here from what i've been told they arent allowed here and if I made a thread called " The Religious thread " You might not have a problem with it, but that doesnt mean the others mods wont have a problem with it for the fact Religious threads could start flaim wars and so on... Like if I preach about Jesus Christ, someone else on this website might try to convince me that their God which is a different God is the real God and then it would start a serious argument from there.
@TERMINATORXX said:
@RazzaTazz said:
@TERMINATORXX: Or move to the religious thread.
Interesting then, I guess you don't believe in free will
I don't believe in free will? Have you read any of my posts? I believe I've talked about free will atleast once or twice... About God giving us the free will to chose what we want to believe and free will to do what we want to do?
I don't think their are Religious threads here from what i've been told they arent allowed here and if I made a thread called " The Religious thread " You might not have a problem with it, but that doesnt mean the others mods wont have a problem with it for the fact Religious threads could start flaim wars and so on... Like if I preach about Jesus Christ, someone else on this website might try to convince me that their God which is a different God is the real God and then it would start a serious argument from there.
There is a religion thread on here. Religion...What do you think? is a thread that been going on for a long time. There are plenty here who share your beliefs. Just be prepared if you visit that thread, because as you can see there are those who will disagree with you.
As far as what I think is evil, I believe any form of absolute control over another human being/beings is evil. This can come in many forms. It can happen through tyranny, slavery, murder, rape, the enforcement of dogma, or through a family member trying to instill a sense of prejudice into a child. To take away anyone's ability to choose for themselves is to take away meaning from their lives.
@TERMINATORXX: I don't want to come down on you or your beliefs at all, it is not my point. As the poster below me points out, there is a thread for those discussions, and I generally stay out of it, because I am certain of my belief system but I do not try to impose it on others but I also believe others can interpret spirituality however they like.
I just asked about free will because as you describe (correct me if I am wrong) that a person who commits a horrible crime is under the influence of Satan. therefore they are not exercising their free will at that time. Or to put it another way, free will only works when you are doing good things, but that isn't very free from the sounds of it.
1. But why would God have people Killed and Kidnapped if his nature is reflective of Jesus ? Seems kind of strange but whatever.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. It's still God telling people to Kill and Kidnap though... whether it's a Private or Public Instruction is somewhat irrelevant. Also The Ten Commandments really speak of "Thou Shalt Not Murder" it's interpreted "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but sometimes God asks his People to Kill... Murder deals directly with Killing those who are Innocent.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?Ok Yes God has given people instruction and to kill and kidnap or whatever, but that is a Private instruction...If I went out today and killed someone would that be a terrible sin? Yes because God did not give me that instruction to kill, kidnap, steal or any of that... The bible also says in the 10 commandments " Thou Shall not Kill " Thats means those shall not kill just to kill....God has not spoken with me and asked me to commit murder or anything so me, you or anyone has no right taken someones life just to take it...
Yes you can be a very good person and still not believe in God, their are million airs, billion airs and so on who arent saved for the fact they've not accepted christ as their savior...being rich doesnt mean someone is saved, just like I said on a previous posts, I know people in real life who have told me personally they are athiest and I cannot see them going to hell, But I am not God, I cannot make that call for those people... God gave us the free will to do what we wish and believe what we want... I cant put my hands on these different believers and force them to believe in Jesus christ because that would come back on me one day...
As far as the police go I agree they save human and help others because its their Job, not because they believe in God and then again their are some christian cops without a doubt.... The bible says their are more people going to the lake of fire then saved ones and i'll tell you what... I believe it, because within the last 7 years or longer, I've been starting to run into alot more Godless people than what I did when I was a kid... plus their are more people around the world who don't believe in the son of man which is Jesus Christ...
2. The Free Will issue is Interesting... if I recall there are passages that say that The God of this World has Blinded the Minds of the Unbelievers so that they Can Not see the Glorious Light of the Gospel and the Glory of Christ... that's in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4... the question would be then... is if a Supernatural Force is Deceiving the Minds of People so that they can not see God and his Glorious Light... then how can they choose to see what is not available to be seen ?
3. Alright, but again you did not answer my initial question... If God Loved "The World"... then why didn't he Save the World as a Whole ? And considering the passage like what I gave in 2 Corinthians 4:4... this eludes to the reason why there are so many Godless People as you say... if The God of this World is Blinding People so that they can not see or understand the Gospel... then how does God expect to get a majority saved through this Message ? God loved the World right ? So why is 80 - 90 percent of The World gonna burn if he loves it so much and there is a Deceiver on the Earth that can thwart his Saving Message ?1. God is God, He can do anything he wants, I cannot whatso ever tell God what to do....EVER....I honestly havent read the bible in awhile and im gonna have to start reading again because I cant remember what Gods purpose was for those.... Alot of people do not understand God including me, but people always wondered why God allows so many evil things to happen in this world.. well the bible tells you Satan Is God of this World in Corinthians and how he has decieved so many people.... I always wondered why God created Satan if Yeah Satans gonna be a right hand Angel of his for a time being, but why create Satan if hes gonna rebell against you GOD? Well the truth is, We dont know and thats none of out concern, the bible will tell you that everything is a purpose and a reason for everything that happens... Yeah their was a country that was getting full of gays and in the bible God I guess took out most of the country because Gays were getting too overpopulated.... You gotta remember God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve...with two men or two women you cannot have kids and thats why God meant for it to be man and woman.... Now back to the murder topic, A true christian would never kill just to kill the way I see it... I honestly dont know why God asks those people to kill or kidnap, I knew and read it, but I forget.
2. Yes that is Corintians that I just mentioned Satan is " God of this World " What the blindness means is those people are blind not as in they cant see with their eyes, but because they chose to follow Satans path, Satan mind plays people and the bible will tell you we're going to have a rapture and all of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our savior are gonna be out of here However, those who are left here, doesnt mean they're going to hell it means they didnt accept christ as their savior...After the rapture their will be 7 years Trubulation, Now what that means is the Antichrist is gonna be here and he will do Miracles similar to what Jesus did such as make blind people see, make death people hear, heal sick people...etc...etc...etc and so on... once he does those miracles, people will fall for him and The Antichrist/Satan is going to do those Miracles and show off his powers to try to convince everybody that hes the real God and alot of people will fall for it... Just like the laws will change and in order to buy who sell you will have to take Satans mark which is " 666 " and it will have to be lazered in either your right hand or your forhead and some people who have been preached too about God and the rapture will realise all their christian friends are gone.. They will assume their friends were right about God and the rapture taken place and why billions of people have died like the bible explained which they chose to ignore and once they find out they have to take a mark like the bible talks about and what their christian friends talked to them about, they are gonna realise they were wrong about the son of man not existing and if they get caught by the law not taking the mark of the beast, they will be on death row, for example they will go to Jail, then they go to trial and they will ask " Did this man take the mark " they will say " No he did not. " then the judge or whoever will say " Take him and cut his head off. " the bible gives interesting information about this.
3. I honestly have wondered that myself... God says that their will not be one human in the whole world that will live a life without hearing his name for example, in India they worship cows, some places in Egypt they worship Cats from what i've heard and those people who worshipped animals, Boota, Gondy and so on will be preached too atleast a few times during their life time by people who believe in God, their are Jesus believers all around the world in every country and everyone will hear the name of God and as far as being saved goes.. Its like an awfering, I'm talking to you about God and you have a choice to believe what I say is true by reading it in the bible for yourself and you also have the right to believe its fake or whatever... You yourself King Saturn know of God, so im not saying you arent saved, but lets say for example you arent, on the day of judgement if God judged you, you cannot use as an excuse " Well God I never heard of you so I didnt know you existed " God might tell you " Noo. that is not true, you've read my words in the bible a guy name TERMINATORXX on that Comic Vine website you loved chatted explained a little things about me, but you chose to ignore it and not care. "
See you have to understand God also says in the 10 Commandments that he is a Jealous God and he wants no one and I mean no one to have another God before them, another Idol or anything, he wants us to worship him and him only...
Now I have watched on TV A Preacher said that hell is on this earth, everyone goes through evil times and the closest their is to hell or the lake of fire is right here on this Earth... I kinda see it that way because when my Dad was very sick before he passed away, he was in so much pain I knew he had his hell on this Earth...I kind of think Hell very well could be on this Earth, however the bible says Earth and Hell are two different places... Earth is a testimony to determin if you go to heaven or hell when you die...
2. The Passage does not elude to that... it says that the Gospel is Veiled or Covered from those who are Perishing ( in the previous scripture )... but those who Perish are not blatantly choosing to follow the Devil... they are being deceived to do so if they actually do. It's not like people ( or at least most people ) take the initiative to follow Satan... they are usually tricked into doing so... and if they are being blinded to God's Gospel what else choices do they have ? Even if you think about Adam and Eve... Adam and Eve did not blatantly eat from the Tree after God told them not to... they was deceived by an outside agent... the deception and tricks of the Devil are great enough to cover or hide the Gospel from the majority of people... that's what I gather from the passage.
3. What a person worships or even believes should not stop God from saving Men from a Great Punishment if he loves them... now those who return the love to God should be rewarded... but why should those who don't believe should be tortured and burned forever ? that's not reflective of a God who loved the world...
@NlGHTCRAWLER said:
Sonofa--
You just destroyed my childhood. :(
@King Saturn said:
@SilverGalford said:lacking a belief in some deity should not be the cause of Evil... but believing in some type of deity that commands it's followers to do some things that are questionable could cause problems.@Supreme Marvel said:
Religion.
Atheism
no wonder why you believe God is evil , at least that's what i think , this clarifies everything .
Atheism does cause problems too, cause an atheist is still human ,not a perfect being.
believing in some type of atheist leader (e.g stalin ) that commands it's followers to do something that are questionale could cause problems, if nobody followed any rules or a leader (which is something atheist people hate) , that would lead to anarchy and consecuently to wars and death, if i'm not wrong atheist people do follow and support someone ideas (presidents, politicians,people who support RAPE like Dan Baker ,an atheist ,etc) and sometimes that person is someone who really does bad things ( free thinkers? yeah right , i don't believe that ). so don't think because you don't believe in God you are free from questionable things.either you are atheist or believer , you are not free from your sinner nature. that will be inside you until the day you die.
i have a religion , and i haven't done anything bad to anybody, that refutes your statement. on the contrary, hipocritical religious people and some atheist have insulted me so bad over the internet and on my neighborhood too . one Atheist encouraged another Atheist guy to take the girlfriend of a believer on one website . is that good ? what does that mean? .
i posted "atheism" because if that user has the right to stereotype and say"religion" without any reason , i have the same right to stereotype and say "atheism" without any reason too.
Anything can be justified. Any crime, any assault, any murder, can be justified. At least by the person who perpetrated it. A person can't commit a crime and truly think, down in their very soul, that it's evil. Why did a person steal this? Do you think they thought it was wrong? No, they thought they needed it, or wanted it, and thus they should have it.
"so let's kill Jon Smith because i hate him so much" , is that justified?
you think wrong then... I said God is Indifferent... he does Good and Evil... not just one or the other.@King Saturn said:
@SilverGalford said:lacking a belief in some deity should not be the cause of Evil... but believing in some type of deity that commands it's followers to do some things that are questionable could cause problems.@Supreme Marvel said:
Religion.
Atheism
no wonder why you believe God is evil , at least that's what i think , this clarifies everything .
Atheism does cause problems too, cause an atheist is still human ,not a perfect being.
believing in some type of atheist leader (e.g stalin ) that commands it's followers to do something that are questionale could cause problems, if nobody followed any rules or a leader (which is something atheist people hate) , that would lead to anarchy and consecuently to wars and death, if i'm not wrong atheist people do follow and support someone ideas (presidents, politicians,people who support RAPE like Dan Baker ,etc) and sometimes that person is someone who really does bad things ( free thinkers? yeah right , i don't believe that ). so don't think because you don't believe in God you are free from questionable things.either you are atheist or believer , you are not free from your sinner nature. that will be inside you until the day you die.
i have a religion , and i haven't done anything bad to anybody, that refutes your statement. on the contrary, hipocritical religious people and some atheist have insulted me so bad over the internet and on my neighborhood too . one Atheist encouraged another Atheist guy to take the girlfriend of a believer on one website . is that good ? what does that mean? .
i posted "atheism" because if that user has the right to stereotype and say"religion" without any reason , i have the same right to stereotype and say "atheism" without any reason too.
anyways... it's not Atheism that does anything... lacking a belief or even rejecting a belief in a God does nothing... yes, people who don't believe in God do bad things... but do these people do bad things because they don't believe in God... or do they do bad things because people in general do bad things ? Sometimes Christians do bad things... sometimes Jews do bad things... sometimes Muslims do bad things... sometimes Agnostics do bad things... sometimes Scientologists do bad things... it's not the belief system or lack there of that does bad things it's the people... but certain religions have teachings that their God commands that they do things that are not good at all.
@King Saturn said:
@SilverGalford said:you think wrong then... I said God is Indifferent... he does Good and Evil... not just one or the other.@King Saturn said:
@SilverGalford said:lacking a belief in some deity should not be the cause of Evil... but believing in some type of deity that commands it's followers to do some things that are questionable could cause problems.@Supreme Marvel said:
Religion.
Atheism
no wonder why you believe God is evil , at least that's what i think , this clarifies everything .
Atheism does cause problems too, cause an atheist is still human ,not a perfect being.
believing in some type of atheist leader (e.g stalin ) that commands it's followers to do something that are questionale could cause problems, if nobody followed any rules or a leader (which is something atheist people hate) , that would lead to anarchy and consecuently to wars and death, if i'm not wrong atheist people do follow and support someone ideas (presidents, politicians,people who support RAPE like Dan Baker ,etc) and sometimes that person is someone who really does bad things ( free thinkers? yeah right , i don't believe that ). so don't think because you don't believe in God you are free from questionable things.either you are atheist or believer , you are not free from your sinner nature. that will be inside you until the day you die.
i have a religion , and i haven't done anything bad to anybody, that refutes your statement. on the contrary, hipocritical religious people and some atheist have insulted me so bad over the internet and on my neighborhood too . one Atheist encouraged another Atheist guy to take the girlfriend of a believer on one website . is that good ? what does that mean? .
i posted "atheism" because if that user has the right to stereotype and say"religion" without any reason , i have the same right to stereotype and say "atheism" without any reason too.
Sometimes Christians do bad things... sometimes Jews do bad things... sometimes Muslims do bad things... sometimes Agnostics do bad things... sometimes Scientologists do bad things... it's not the belief system or lack there of that does bad things it's the people... but certain religions have teachings that their God commands that they do things that are not good at all.
let me see:
lacking a belief in some deity should not be the cause of Evil.
and
yes, people who don't believe in God do bad things... but do these people do bad things because they don't believe in God... or do they do bad things because people in general do bad things ?
i don't understand.
anyway ,as i told you , the sinner nature is inside you .because of this humans tend to do bad things sometimes and you have to fight against it no matter if you are religious or not. the atheism thing was because of the previous comment i replied.
@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. But why would God have people Killed and Kidnapped if his nature is reflective of Jesus ? Seems kind of strange but whatever.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. It's still God telling people to Kill and Kidnap though... whether it's a Private or Public Instruction is somewhat irrelevant. Also The Ten Commandments really speak of "Thou Shalt Not Murder" it's interpreted "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but sometimes God asks his People to Kill... Murder deals directly with Killing those who are Innocent.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?Ok Yes God has given people instruction and to kill and kidnap or whatever, but that is a Private instruction...If I went out today and killed someone would that be a terrible sin? Yes because God did not give me that instruction to kill, kidnap, steal or any of that... The bible also says in the 10 commandments " Thou Shall not Kill " Thats means those shall not kill just to kill....God has not spoken with me and asked me to commit murder or anything so me, you or anyone has no right taken someones life just to take it...
Yes you can be a very good person and still not believe in God, their are million airs, billion airs and so on who arent saved for the fact they've not accepted christ as their savior...being rich doesnt mean someone is saved, just like I said on a previous posts, I know people in real life who have told me personally they are athiest and I cannot see them going to hell, But I am not God, I cannot make that call for those people... God gave us the free will to do what we wish and believe what we want... I cant put my hands on these different believers and force them to believe in Jesus christ because that would come back on me one day...
As far as the police go I agree they save human and help others because its their Job, not because they believe in God and then again their are some christian cops without a doubt.... The bible says their are more people going to the lake of fire then saved ones and i'll tell you what... I believe it, because within the last 7 years or longer, I've been starting to run into alot more Godless people than what I did when I was a kid... plus their are more people around the world who don't believe in the son of man which is Jesus Christ...
2. The Free Will issue is Interesting... if I recall there are passages that say that The God of this World has Blinded the Minds of the Unbelievers so that they Can Not see the Glorious Light of the Gospel and the Glory of Christ... that's in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4... the question would be then... is if a Supernatural Force is Deceiving the Minds of People so that they can not see God and his Glorious Light... then how can they choose to see what is not available to be seen ?
3. Alright, but again you did not answer my initial question... If God Loved "The World"... then why didn't he Save the World as a Whole ? And considering the passage like what I gave in 2 Corinthians 4:4... this eludes to the reason why there are so many Godless People as you say... if The God of this World is Blinding People so that they can not see or understand the Gospel... then how does God expect to get a majority saved through this Message ? God loved the World right ? So why is 80 - 90 percent of The World gonna burn if he loves it so much and there is a Deceiver on the Earth that can thwart his Saving Message ?1. God is God, He can do anything he wants, I cannot whatso ever tell God what to do....EVER....I honestly havent read the bible in awhile and im gonna have to start reading again because I cant remember what Gods purpose was for those.... Alot of people do not understand God including me, but people always wondered why God allows so many evil things to happen in this world.. well the bible tells you Satan Is God of this World in Corinthians and how he has decieved so many people.... I always wondered why God created Satan if Yeah Satans gonna be a right hand Angel of his for a time being, but why create Satan if hes gonna rebell against you GOD? Well the truth is, We dont know and thats none of out concern, the bible will tell you that everything is a purpose and a reason for everything that happens... Yeah their was a country that was getting full of gays and in the bible God I guess took out most of the country because Gays were getting too overpopulated.... You gotta remember God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve...with two men or two women you cannot have kids and thats why God meant for it to be man and woman.... Now back to the murder topic, A true christian would never kill just to kill the way I see it... I honestly dont know why God asks those people to kill or kidnap, I knew and read it, but I forget.
2. Yes that is Corintians that I just mentioned Satan is " God of this World " What the blindness means is those people are blind not as in they cant see with their eyes, but because they chose to follow Satans path, Satan mind plays people and the bible will tell you we're going to have a rapture and all of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our savior are gonna be out of here However, those who are left here, doesnt mean they're going to hell it means they didnt accept christ as their savior...After the rapture their will be 7 years Trubulation, Now what that means is the Antichrist is gonna be here and he will do Miracles similar to what Jesus did such as make blind people see, make death people hear, heal sick people...etc...etc...etc and so on... once he does those miracles, people will fall for him and The Antichrist/Satan is going to do those Miracles and show off his powers to try to convince everybody that hes the real God and alot of people will fall for it... Just like the laws will change and in order to buy who sell you will have to take Satans mark which is " 666 " and it will have to be lazered in either your right hand or your forhead and some people who have been preached too about God and the rapture will realise all their christian friends are gone.. They will assume their friends were right about God and the rapture taken place and why billions of people have died like the bible explained which they chose to ignore and once they find out they have to take a mark like the bible talks about and what their christian friends talked to them about, they are gonna realise they were wrong about the son of man not existing and if they get caught by the law not taking the mark of the beast, they will be on death row, for example they will go to Jail, then they go to trial and they will ask " Did this man take the mark " they will say " No he did not. " then the judge or whoever will say " Take him and cut his head off. " the bible gives interesting information about this.
3. I honestly have wondered that myself... God says that their will not be one human in the whole world that will live a life without hearing his name for example, in India they worship cows, some places in Egypt they worship Cats from what i've heard and those people who worshipped animals, Boota, Gondy and so on will be preached too atleast a few times during their life time by people who believe in God, their are Jesus believers all around the world in every country and everyone will hear the name of God and as far as being saved goes.. Its like an awfering, I'm talking to you about God and you have a choice to believe what I say is true by reading it in the bible for yourself and you also have the right to believe its fake or whatever... You yourself King Saturn know of God, so im not saying you arent saved, but lets say for example you arent, on the day of judgement if God judged you, you cannot use as an excuse " Well God I never heard of you so I didnt know you existed " God might tell you " Noo. that is not true, you've read my words in the bible a guy name TERMINATORXX on that Comic Vine website you loved chatted explained a little things about me, but you chose to ignore it and not care. "
See you have to understand God also says in the 10 Commandments that he is a Jealous God and he wants no one and I mean no one to have another God before them, another Idol or anything, he wants us to worship him and him only...
Now I have watched on TV A Preacher said that hell is on this earth, everyone goes through evil times and the closest their is to hell or the lake of fire is right here on this Earth... I kinda see it that way because when my Dad was very sick before he passed away, he was in so much pain I knew he had his hell on this Earth...I kind of think Hell very well could be on this Earth, however the bible says Earth and Hell are two different places... Earth is a testimony to determin if you go to heaven or hell when you die...
2. The Passage does not elude to that... it says that the Gospel is Veiled or Covered from those who are Perishing ( in the previous scripture )... but those who Perish are not blatantly choosing to follow the Devil... they are being deceived to do so if they actually do. It's not like people ( or at least most people ) take the initiative to follow Satan... they are usually tricked into doing so... and if they are being blinded to God's Gospel what else choices do they have ? Even if you think about Adam and Eve... Adam and Eve did not blatantly eat from the Tree after God told them not to... they was deceived by an outside agent... the deception and tricks of the Devil are great enough to cover or hide the Gospel from the majority of people... that's what I gather from the passage.
3. What a person worships or even believes should not stop God from saving Men from a Great Punishment if he loves them... now those who return the love to God should be rewarded... but why should those who don't believe should be tortured and burned forever ? that's not reflective of a God who loved the world...
1. I have No Idea why God would kill and Kidnap, I can only tell you the little that I know.
2. When people go to hell, God does not put you there, you put yourself there... you put yourself their for the fact you knew it was wrong to kill, it was wrong to cheat, wrong to r*pe women, and so on... If God told me that I could pick up a dollar off the ground with a roaring lion in front of it, I would go and pick up the bill....God does not want us whatsoever to commit sins such as murder just to commit murder...same with stealing and so on.
3. Jesus Christ took the beatings that no man has ever taken.... Jesus was dressed in womens, clothing, spit on, tied up and beaten until his blood spilled almost everywhere.... Jesus took the most brutal massive beatens ever and felt the pain just like us humans can... If I was Jesus and I got beaten half to death and then nailed to a cross and died for my world and some of the people I created and gave free wills too didnt appreciate the fact that I died for their sins and paid the penalty for them and they still didnt care... I would judge them and send them to hell too..forget them...Jesus has healed people while he was still alive and some people still didnt accept him at all...
how do you not understand ?@King Saturn said:
@SilverGalford said:you think wrong then... I said God is Indifferent... he does Good and Evil... not just one or the other.@King Saturn said:
@SilverGalford said:lacking a belief in some deity should not be the cause of Evil... but believing in some type of deity that commands it's followers to do some things that are questionable could cause problems.@Supreme Marvel said:
Religion.
Atheism
no wonder why you believe God is evil , at least that's what i think , this clarifies everything .
Atheism does cause problems too, cause an atheist is still human ,not a perfect being.
believing in some type of atheist leader (e.g stalin ) that commands it's followers to do something that are questionale could cause problems, if nobody followed any rules or a leader (which is something atheist people hate) , that would lead to anarchy and consecuently to wars and death, if i'm not wrong atheist people do follow and support someone ideas (presidents, politicians,people who support RAPE like Dan Baker ,etc) and sometimes that person is someone who really does bad things ( free thinkers? yeah right , i don't believe that ). so don't think because you don't believe in God you are free from questionable things.either you are atheist or believer , you are not free from your sinner nature. that will be inside you until the day you die.
i have a religion , and i haven't done anything bad to anybody, that refutes your statement. on the contrary, hipocritical religious people and some atheist have insulted me so bad over the internet and on my neighborhood too . one Atheist encouraged another Atheist guy to take the girlfriend of a believer on one website . is that good ? what does that mean? .
i posted "atheism" because if that user has the right to stereotype and say"religion" without any reason , i have the same right to stereotype and say "atheism" without any reason too.
Sometimes Christians do bad things... sometimes Jews do bad things... sometimes Muslims do bad things... sometimes Agnostics do bad things... sometimes Scientologists do bad things... it's not the belief system or lack there of that does bad things it's the people... but certain religions have teachings that their God commands that they do things that are not good at all.let me see:
lacking a belief in some deity should not be the cause of Evil.
and
yes, people who don't believe in God do bad things... but do these people do bad things because they don't believe in God... or do they do bad things because people in general do bad things ?
i don't understand.
anyway ,as i told you , you sinner nature is inside you .because of this humans tend to do bad things sometimes and you have to fight against it no matter if you are religious or not. the atheism thing was because of the previous comment i replied.
I gave you the explanation flat out...
the first line is talking about how lacking a belief should not be the cause of evil... and the second line eludes to people who don't believe in God do bad things... BUT they do them NOT because they lack a belief in God... but because PEOPLE IN GENERAL DO BAD THINGS.
1. alrighty@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. But why would God have people Killed and Kidnapped if his nature is reflective of Jesus ? Seems kind of strange but whatever.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. It's still God telling people to Kill and Kidnap though... whether it's a Private or Public Instruction is somewhat irrelevant. Also The Ten Commandments really speak of "Thou Shalt Not Murder" it's interpreted "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but sometimes God asks his People to Kill... Murder deals directly with Killing those who are Innocent.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?Ok Yes God has given people instruction and to kill and kidnap or whatever, but that is a Private instruction...If I went out today and killed someone would that be a terrible sin? Yes because God did not give me that instruction to kill, kidnap, steal or any of that... The bible also says in the 10 commandments " Thou Shall not Kill " Thats means those shall not kill just to kill....God has not spoken with me and asked me to commit murder or anything so me, you or anyone has no right taken someones life just to take it...
Yes you can be a very good person and still not believe in God, their are million airs, billion airs and so on who arent saved for the fact they've not accepted christ as their savior...being rich doesnt mean someone is saved, just like I said on a previous posts, I know people in real life who have told me personally they are athiest and I cannot see them going to hell, But I am not God, I cannot make that call for those people... God gave us the free will to do what we wish and believe what we want... I cant put my hands on these different believers and force them to believe in Jesus christ because that would come back on me one day...
As far as the police go I agree they save human and help others because its their Job, not because they believe in God and then again their are some christian cops without a doubt.... The bible says their are more people going to the lake of fire then saved ones and i'll tell you what... I believe it, because within the last 7 years or longer, I've been starting to run into alot more Godless people than what I did when I was a kid... plus their are more people around the world who don't believe in the son of man which is Jesus Christ...
2. The Free Will issue is Interesting... if I recall there are passages that say that The God of this World has Blinded the Minds of the Unbelievers so that they Can Not see the Glorious Light of the Gospel and the Glory of Christ... that's in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4... the question would be then... is if a Supernatural Force is Deceiving the Minds of People so that they can not see God and his Glorious Light... then how can they choose to see what is not available to be seen ?
3. Alright, but again you did not answer my initial question... If God Loved "The World"... then why didn't he Save the World as a Whole ? And considering the passage like what I gave in 2 Corinthians 4:4... this eludes to the reason why there are so many Godless People as you say... if The God of this World is Blinding People so that they can not see or understand the Gospel... then how does God expect to get a majority saved through this Message ? God loved the World right ? So why is 80 - 90 percent of The World gonna burn if he loves it so much and there is a Deceiver on the Earth that can thwart his Saving Message ?1. God is God, He can do anything he wants, I cannot whatso ever tell God what to do....EVER....I honestly havent read the bible in awhile and im gonna have to start reading again because I cant remember what Gods purpose was for those.... Alot of people do not understand God including me, but people always wondered why God allows so many evil things to happen in this world.. well the bible tells you Satan Is God of this World in Corinthians and how he has decieved so many people.... I always wondered why God created Satan if Yeah Satans gonna be a right hand Angel of his for a time being, but why create Satan if hes gonna rebell against you GOD? Well the truth is, We dont know and thats none of out concern, the bible will tell you that everything is a purpose and a reason for everything that happens... Yeah their was a country that was getting full of gays and in the bible God I guess took out most of the country because Gays were getting too overpopulated.... You gotta remember God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve...with two men or two women you cannot have kids and thats why God meant for it to be man and woman.... Now back to the murder topic, A true christian would never kill just to kill the way I see it... I honestly dont know why God asks those people to kill or kidnap, I knew and read it, but I forget.
2. Yes that is Corintians that I just mentioned Satan is " God of this World " What the blindness means is those people are blind not as in they cant see with their eyes, but because they chose to follow Satans path, Satan mind plays people and the bible will tell you we're going to have a rapture and all of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our savior are gonna be out of here However, those who are left here, doesnt mean they're going to hell it means they didnt accept christ as their savior...After the rapture their will be 7 years Trubulation, Now what that means is the Antichrist is gonna be here and he will do Miracles similar to what Jesus did such as make blind people see, make death people hear, heal sick people...etc...etc...etc and so on... once he does those miracles, people will fall for him and The Antichrist/Satan is going to do those Miracles and show off his powers to try to convince everybody that hes the real God and alot of people will fall for it... Just like the laws will change and in order to buy who sell you will have to take Satans mark which is " 666 " and it will have to be lazered in either your right hand or your forhead and some people who have been preached too about God and the rapture will realise all their christian friends are gone.. They will assume their friends were right about God and the rapture taken place and why billions of people have died like the bible explained which they chose to ignore and once they find out they have to take a mark like the bible talks about and what their christian friends talked to them about, they are gonna realise they were wrong about the son of man not existing and if they get caught by the law not taking the mark of the beast, they will be on death row, for example they will go to Jail, then they go to trial and they will ask " Did this man take the mark " they will say " No he did not. " then the judge or whoever will say " Take him and cut his head off. " the bible gives interesting information about this.
3. I honestly have wondered that myself... God says that their will not be one human in the whole world that will live a life without hearing his name for example, in India they worship cows, some places in Egypt they worship Cats from what i've heard and those people who worshipped animals, Boota, Gondy and so on will be preached too atleast a few times during their life time by people who believe in God, their are Jesus believers all around the world in every country and everyone will hear the name of God and as far as being saved goes.. Its like an awfering, I'm talking to you about God and you have a choice to believe what I say is true by reading it in the bible for yourself and you also have the right to believe its fake or whatever... You yourself King Saturn know of God, so im not saying you arent saved, but lets say for example you arent, on the day of judgement if God judged you, you cannot use as an excuse " Well God I never heard of you so I didnt know you existed " God might tell you " Noo. that is not true, you've read my words in the bible a guy name TERMINATORXX on that Comic Vine website you loved chatted explained a little things about me, but you chose to ignore it and not care. "
See you have to understand God also says in the 10 Commandments that he is a Jealous God and he wants no one and I mean no one to have another God before them, another Idol or anything, he wants us to worship him and him only...
Now I have watched on TV A Preacher said that hell is on this earth, everyone goes through evil times and the closest their is to hell or the lake of fire is right here on this Earth... I kinda see it that way because when my Dad was very sick before he passed away, he was in so much pain I knew he had his hell on this Earth...I kind of think Hell very well could be on this Earth, however the bible says Earth and Hell are two different places... Earth is a testimony to determin if you go to heaven or hell when you die...
2. The Passage does not elude to that... it says that the Gospel is Veiled or Covered from those who are Perishing ( in the previous scripture )... but those who Perish are not blatantly choosing to follow the Devil... they are being deceived to do so if they actually do. It's not like people ( or at least most people ) take the initiative to follow Satan... they are usually tricked into doing so... and if they are being blinded to God's Gospel what else choices do they have ? Even if you think about Adam and Eve... Adam and Eve did not blatantly eat from the Tree after God told them not to... they was deceived by an outside agent... the deception and tricks of the Devil are great enough to cover or hide the Gospel from the majority of people... that's what I gather from the passage.
3. What a person worships or even believes should not stop God from saving Men from a Great Punishment if he loves them... now those who return the love to God should be rewarded... but why should those who don't believe should be tortured and burned forever ? that's not reflective of a God who loved the world...1. I have No Idea why God would kill and Kidnap, I can only tell you the little that I know.
2. When people go to hell, God does not put you there, you put yourself there... you put yourself their for the fact you knew it was wrong to kill, it was wrong to cheat, wrong to r*pe women, and so on... If God told me that I could pick up a dollar off the ground with a roaring lion in front of it, I would go and pick up the bill....God does not want us whatsoever to commit sins such as murder just to commit murder...same with stealing and so on.
3. Jesus Christ took the beatings that no man has ever taken.... Jesus was dressed in womens, clothing, spit on, tied up and beaten until his blood spilled almost everywhere.... Jesus took the most brutal massive beatens ever and felt the pain just like us humans can... If I was Jesus and I got beaten half to death and then nailed to a cross and died for my world and some of the people I created and gave free wills too didnt appreciate the fact that I died for their sins and paid the penalty for them and they still didnt care... I would judge them and send them to hell too..forget them...Jesus has healed people while he was still alive and some people still didnt accept him at all...
2. If 2 Corinthians 4 is right... there is a lot wrong with your statement. We know that certain things are wrong from Moral Issues that are provided to us from Society and Religious Doctrine... but if there is an Outside Force ( Satan ) who is capable of Deceiving or even Possessing People at times into doing awful things on this Earth... as well as capable of Covering ones Understanding to the Gospel of God / Jesus... then how is it All Man's Fault ? You do realize that this same God of the World that the Bible talks about Waged War in Heaven in the Presence of God ? These issues of the world are not of just Human's doing Evil and wanting to Sin against God according to the Bible... there is a Dark Force who battles with God who supposedly will be defeated at some point... but this force is capable of overtaking the minds of the majority of the people with his tricks... so how is it all just Man putting themselves in Hell... if they are being Influenced and Deceived by a Force that could Trick even Celestial Bodies ?
3. But Jesus Nature was so that he was Forgiving though... even with the Romans was still nailing him on a Tree he still was asking Yahweh to Forgive them... also, Jesus must be aware than Satan has Power of the World and capable of Deceiving and even Concealing the Gospel away from those who do not Believe... this means that Man is Not Completely at Fault for not believing... The Dark Force is Covering their Sight and Understanding. It's not just all people want to Not Believe...
@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. alrighty@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. But why would God have people Killed and Kidnapped if his nature is reflective of Jesus ? Seems kind of strange but whatever.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:1. It's still God telling people to Kill and Kidnap though... whether it's a Private or Public Instruction is somewhat irrelevant. Also The Ten Commandments really speak of "Thou Shalt Not Murder" it's interpreted "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but sometimes God asks his People to Kill... Murder deals directly with Killing those who are Innocent.@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?Ok Yes God has given people instruction and to kill and kidnap or whatever, but that is a Private instruction...If I went out today and killed someone would that be a terrible sin? Yes because God did not give me that instruction to kill, kidnap, steal or any of that... The bible also says in the 10 commandments " Thou Shall not Kill " Thats means those shall not kill just to kill....God has not spoken with me and asked me to commit murder or anything so me, you or anyone has no right taken someones life just to take it...
Yes you can be a very good person and still not believe in God, their are million airs, billion airs and so on who arent saved for the fact they've not accepted christ as their savior...being rich doesnt mean someone is saved, just like I said on a previous posts, I know people in real life who have told me personally they are athiest and I cannot see them going to hell, But I am not God, I cannot make that call for those people... God gave us the free will to do what we wish and believe what we want... I cant put my hands on these different believers and force them to believe in Jesus christ because that would come back on me one day...
As far as the police go I agree they save human and help others because its their Job, not because they believe in God and then again their are some christian cops without a doubt.... The bible says their are more people going to the lake of fire then saved ones and i'll tell you what... I believe it, because within the last 7 years or longer, I've been starting to run into alot more Godless people than what I did when I was a kid... plus their are more people around the world who don't believe in the son of man which is Jesus Christ...
2. The Free Will issue is Interesting... if I recall there are passages that say that The God of this World has Blinded the Minds of the Unbelievers so that they Can Not see the Glorious Light of the Gospel and the Glory of Christ... that's in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4... the question would be then... is if a Supernatural Force is Deceiving the Minds of People so that they can not see God and his Glorious Light... then how can they choose to see what is not available to be seen ?
3. Alright, but again you did not answer my initial question... If God Loved "The World"... then why didn't he Save the World as a Whole ? And considering the passage like what I gave in 2 Corinthians 4:4... this eludes to the reason why there are so many Godless People as you say... if The God of this World is Blinding People so that they can not see or understand the Gospel... then how does God expect to get a majority saved through this Message ? God loved the World right ? So why is 80 - 90 percent of The World gonna burn if he loves it so much and there is a Deceiver on the Earth that can thwart his Saving Message ?1. God is God, He can do anything he wants, I cannot whatso ever tell God what to do....EVER....I honestly havent read the bible in awhile and im gonna have to start reading again because I cant remember what Gods purpose was for those.... Alot of people do not understand God including me, but people always wondered why God allows so many evil things to happen in this world.. well the bible tells you Satan Is God of this World in Corinthians and how he has decieved so many people.... I always wondered why God created Satan if Yeah Satans gonna be a right hand Angel of his for a time being, but why create Satan if hes gonna rebell against you GOD? Well the truth is, We dont know and thats none of out concern, the bible will tell you that everything is a purpose and a reason for everything that happens... Yeah their was a country that was getting full of gays and in the bible God I guess took out most of the country because Gays were getting too overpopulated.... You gotta remember God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve...with two men or two women you cannot have kids and thats why God meant for it to be man and woman.... Now back to the murder topic, A true christian would never kill just to kill the way I see it... I honestly dont know why God asks those people to kill or kidnap, I knew and read it, but I forget.
2. Yes that is Corintians that I just mentioned Satan is " God of this World " What the blindness means is those people are blind not as in they cant see with their eyes, but because they chose to follow Satans path, Satan mind plays people and the bible will tell you we're going to have a rapture and all of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our savior are gonna be out of here However, those who are left here, doesnt mean they're going to hell it means they didnt accept christ as their savior...After the rapture their will be 7 years Trubulation, Now what that means is the Antichrist is gonna be here and he will do Miracles similar to what Jesus did such as make blind people see, make death people hear, heal sick people...etc...etc...etc and so on... once he does those miracles, people will fall for him and The Antichrist/Satan is going to do those Miracles and show off his powers to try to convince everybody that hes the real God and alot of people will fall for it... Just like the laws will change and in order to buy who sell you will have to take Satans mark which is " 666 " and it will have to be lazered in either your right hand or your forhead and some people who have been preached too about God and the rapture will realise all their christian friends are gone.. They will assume their friends were right about God and the rapture taken place and why billions of people have died like the bible explained which they chose to ignore and once they find out they have to take a mark like the bible talks about and what their christian friends talked to them about, they are gonna realise they were wrong about the son of man not existing and if they get caught by the law not taking the mark of the beast, they will be on death row, for example they will go to Jail, then they go to trial and they will ask " Did this man take the mark " they will say " No he did not. " then the judge or whoever will say " Take him and cut his head off. " the bible gives interesting information about this.
3. I honestly have wondered that myself... God says that their will not be one human in the whole world that will live a life without hearing his name for example, in India they worship cows, some places in Egypt they worship Cats from what i've heard and those people who worshipped animals, Boota, Gondy and so on will be preached too atleast a few times during their life time by people who believe in God, their are Jesus believers all around the world in every country and everyone will hear the name of God and as far as being saved goes.. Its like an awfering, I'm talking to you about God and you have a choice to believe what I say is true by reading it in the bible for yourself and you also have the right to believe its fake or whatever... You yourself King Saturn know of God, so im not saying you arent saved, but lets say for example you arent, on the day of judgement if God judged you, you cannot use as an excuse " Well God I never heard of you so I didnt know you existed " God might tell you " Noo. that is not true, you've read my words in the bible a guy name TERMINATORXX on that Comic Vine website you loved chatted explained a little things about me, but you chose to ignore it and not care. "
See you have to understand God also says in the 10 Commandments that he is a Jealous God and he wants no one and I mean no one to have another God before them, another Idol or anything, he wants us to worship him and him only...
Now I have watched on TV A Preacher said that hell is on this earth, everyone goes through evil times and the closest their is to hell or the lake of fire is right here on this Earth... I kinda see it that way because when my Dad was very sick before he passed away, he was in so much pain I knew he had his hell on this Earth...I kind of think Hell very well could be on this Earth, however the bible says Earth and Hell are two different places... Earth is a testimony to determin if you go to heaven or hell when you die...
2. The Passage does not elude to that... it says that the Gospel is Veiled or Covered from those who are Perishing ( in the previous scripture )... but those who Perish are not blatantly choosing to follow the Devil... they are being deceived to do so if they actually do. It's not like people ( or at least most people ) take the initiative to follow Satan... they are usually tricked into doing so... and if they are being blinded to God's Gospel what else choices do they have ? Even if you think about Adam and Eve... Adam and Eve did not blatantly eat from the Tree after God told them not to... they was deceived by an outside agent... the deception and tricks of the Devil are great enough to cover or hide the Gospel from the majority of people... that's what I gather from the passage.
3. What a person worships or even believes should not stop God from saving Men from a Great Punishment if he loves them... now those who return the love to God should be rewarded... but why should those who don't believe should be tortured and burned forever ? that's not reflective of a God who loved the world...1. I have No Idea why God would kill and Kidnap, I can only tell you the little that I know.
2. When people go to hell, God does not put you there, you put yourself there... you put yourself their for the fact you knew it was wrong to kill, it was wrong to cheat, wrong to r*pe women, and so on... If God told me that I could pick up a dollar off the ground with a roaring lion in front of it, I would go and pick up the bill....God does not want us whatsoever to commit sins such as murder just to commit murder...same with stealing and so on.
3. Jesus Christ took the beatings that no man has ever taken.... Jesus was dressed in womens, clothing, spit on, tied up and beaten until his blood spilled almost everywhere.... Jesus took the most brutal massive beatens ever and felt the pain just like us humans can... If I was Jesus and I got beaten half to death and then nailed to a cross and died for my world and some of the people I created and gave free wills too didnt appreciate the fact that I died for their sins and paid the penalty for them and they still didnt care... I would judge them and send them to hell too..forget them...Jesus has healed people while he was still alive and some people still didnt accept him at all...
2. If 2 Corinthians 4 is right... there is a lot wrong with your statement. We know that certain things are wrong from Moral Issues that are provided to us from Society and Religious Doctrine... but if there is an Outside Force ( Satan ) who is capable of Deceiving or even Possessing People at times into doing awful things on this Earth... as well as capable of Covering ones Understanding to the Gospel of God / Jesus... then how is it All Man's Fault ? You do realize that this same God of the World that the Bible talks about Waged War in Heaven in the Presence of God ? These issues of the world are not of just Human's doing Evil and wanting to Sin against God according to the Bible... there is a Dark Force who battles with God who supposedly will be defeated at some point... but this force is capable of overtaking the minds of the majority of the people with his tricks... so how is it all just Man putting themselves in Hell... if they are being Influenced and Deceived by a Force that could Trick even Celestial Bodies ?
3. But Jesus Nature was so that he was Forgiving though... even with the Romans was still nailing him on a Tree he still was asking Yahweh to Forgive them... also, Jesus must be aware than Satan has Power of the World and capable of Deceiving and even Concealing the Gospel away from those who do not Believe... this means that Man is Not Completely at Fault for not believing... The Dark Force is Covering their Sight and Understanding. It's not just all people want to Not Believe...
All I can say is, Man choses to do right from wrong... Like I said Jesus is a jealous God, he wants us to worship him and have no one else... People chose to worship God, as far as forgiveness goes, you have to ask for it to be forgiven, if you repent of a sin such as killing someone, stealing, cheating or whatever then, if you are trully sorry and ask for forgiveness then God will forgive you, but if you dont ask for forgivness than it obviously means you dont care so why does God have to forgive you if you're disobeying his laws? Satan mind plays people and people just dont know when to tell Satan No... Alot of people dont believe in God and when the rapture happens, most of the people left on Earth will be people who either didnt believe in God and will think they were wrong and will follow satans path thinking hes the real God which he isnt and those people will hear of the word of Jesus Christ at some point in their life time... Eve had a choice to eat from the tree of knowledge, God only allowed Satan to talk to her into it to see if her and Adam would listen to satan and eat from the tree... Satan told them that if they ate from the tree of knowledge that they would be as smart as God and thats why God didnt want them to eat that apple from that tree... so they decided they wanted to be as smart as God and eat from that three, but instead of being as smart as God, they found out they were naked.... What I honestly dont understand is, if they didnt eat from the tree of knowledge, how would they of had sex? I mean you have to have sex to have kids so how would the world of populated if sex didnt exist? I mean it is a sin outside of marrage according to God.... I've always wondered this myself too... You have very interesting questions like i've wondered too.... Cause none of us chose to be in this world and people who worship other Gods worship them because they were braught up with worshiping that God, Just like I was brought up to worship Jesus Christ.
I had a guy ask me once, what if you died and you met God, but it was some other God and he punished you for not worshipping him?
I answered that by saying, I would tell that God, That I was sorry because the family I was brought up with told me th ereal God was Jesus Christ, the Churches I went to and saw around me in the USA Said it was Christ, the bibles that were given to say said it was christ, but that would be my only excuse is that I was sorry because I was brought up with that religion...
I agree with you 100% it is very confusing at certain point, but thats why I dont try to figure God out or question him.
I'm a moral relativist, I don't believe in "good" or "evil" they're just words people come up with to label view points they do or don't agree with. This thread is a perfect example of that, seeing as how many opinions on here are vastly different.
@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
what if someone kill your mother , father ,sister and your loved ones , and finally try to kill you? on top of all this person doesn't want to change. would you let that person kill you? . would you try to reason with that person? i bet you won't .
but that's one thing, the kidnapping part looks interesting , would you like to show me where it says that?. i don't remember. that has an explanation too.
as for the children and women people love to mention , if they were indeed innocent , why didn't they leave their countries and join God? wouldn''t that mean in some way they were supporting the evil nations who were against God?.
if i knew my city will be nuked , i would leave it at once. why would i stay in my city to see how "beautiful" is the nuclear bomb explosion? it would kill me.
in the same way :
if i knew my city will be destroyed by God and it's full of evil people , i would leave it .
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
Satan rejected God , (the same as the atheist people) consecuently he doesn't believe in him , in the sense that he doesn't believe in his authority . atheist and hipocritical religious people do the same thing but both end up really bad just like Satan. if that weren't true , the world would be different .
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?
what is the use of saving a criminal who wants to kill you and hurt your family? you are only supporting the problem , not solving it. what's more , what if this criminal doesn't want to change his behavior?. by saving many criminals who don't want to change you are only helping them to do more bad things. that makes things even worse than ever.
besides , you cannot force someone to obey and be good , and if someone doesn't want to change , that won't solve anything at all.
I had a guy ask me once, what if you died and you met God, but it was some other God and he punished you for not worshipping him?
simply , if you don't worship God , you become like Satan , end up like him , and the cycle of wickedness begins as we know it now.
1. Your First Point is Terrible... There is No Evidence that All the People God told The Israelites to Kill were Murderers and Destroyers and Unwilling to Change. It's Assumed by Theists but there is No Evidence showing that. Also as far as Children and Women leaving these Towns if they was Innocent... Why Do You Assume That God Gave Them An Opportunity To Leave ? Maybe He Didn't. God Did Not Give The Children Who Lived In Noah's Day To Be Saved If They was Not on The Ark... So Why Assume Children and Women could be Saved Here ?@King Saturn said:
@TERMINATORXX said:You do realize that in the Bible that God told some of his People to Kill and Kidnap Women out of Various Cities right ? So it's possible that you could believe in God and do things like Killing People ( in some cases Women and Children ) or even Kidnapping People...@guttridgeb said:
@TERMINATORXX said:
People who kill, kidnap, steal and cheat....People who dont believe in God or try to follow his work.
Seriously? So because someone has different beliefs they must be evil?
Not saying that at all...You can be the nicest person I ever met and still not believe in God... On the day of judgement we will see family members, co workers, friends we went to school with and so on that we thought would make it to heaven and didnt... the reason those really good people didnt make it to heaven is because they never accepted the lord Jesus Christ as their savior... not believing in God doesnt make you a bad person as long as you're a good person... People that do harm others, kidnap and kill are people that dont have much faith in God the way I see it because if they did they wouldnt do any evil that bad... we are sinners, but thats Why " For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so those of us who belieth in him, shall not parish, but have everlasting life. "
Has nothing to do with beliefs, I'm friends with people that are very good people who have told me they're athiest...doesnt make them an evil person, just means they arent saved... not trying to judge... bible tells you in revelation that God will wipe away all the tears because we will see loved ones go into the lake of fire for eternity...
what if someone kill your mother , father ,sister and your loved ones , and finally try to kill you? on top of all this person doesn't want to change. would you let that person kill you? . would you try to reason with that person? i bet you won't .
but that's one thing, the kidnapping part looks interesting , would you like to show me where it says that?. i don't remember. that has an explanation too.
as for the children and women people love to mention , if they were indeed innocent , why didn't they leave their countries and join God? wouldn''t that mean in some way they were supporting the evil nations who were against God?.
if i knew my city will be nuked , i would leave it at once. why would i stay in my city to see how "beautiful" is the nuclear bomb explosion? it would kill me.
in the same way :
if i knew my city will be destroyed by God and it's full of evil people , i would leave it .
Your second point eludes to something I recall saying earlier in another thread... it's like you are trying to say that you believe that people of other faiths can be Good People... but they are still wicked because they don't believe in your Interpretation of God... this has been the story of Organized Religion for Centuries...
Satan rejected God , (the same as the atheist people) consecuently he doesn't believe in him , in the sense that he doesn't believe in his authority . atheist and hipocritical religious people do the same thing but both end up really bad just like Satan. if that weren't true , the world would be different .
On a last note... you ever think to yourself that if God so loves the World that he would save it as a Whole instead of a chosen sum of whom are massively devoted to him ? I mean Police and Firemen save people from Fires and Accidents without even knowing the people and they do it because it's their Job as well as they see the people need help. If God sees that Humanity as a whole needs help... then why not Save Everyone instead of those who become Slaves to your Namesake ?
what is the use of saving a criminal who wants to kill you and hurt your family? you are only supporting the problem , not solving it. what's more , what if this criminal doesn't want to change his behavior?. by saving many criminals who don't want to change you are only helping them to do more bad things. that makes things even worse than ever.
besides , you cannot force someone to obey and be good , and if someone doesn't want to change , that won't solve anything at all.
I had a guy ask me once, what if you died and you met God, but it was some other God and he punished you for not worshipping him?
simply , if you don't worship God , you become like Satan , end up like him , and the cycle of wickedness begins as we know it now.
2. I think Satan wanted to be God or like God... he did not reject God as he does his ways... because unlike the Atheists... Satan "Knows" God exists because he lived in Heaven in the Presence of God... an Atheist "Does Not Know" God exists... so the comparison is quite a bit off.
3. Why do you constantly compare those who are Unbelievers or of another Faith to Murderers and Criminals ? Not everyone who Lacks Belief in God Murderers dude... you have a warped sense of Morality or something man. Also, God could cause the outcomes he wanted without Forcing People to do so... He is God isn't he ? All Powerful right ?
4. That's Not True... Satan is Called the Murderer and Liar and one who Seeks to Devour and Destroy Men... Not all Unbelievers or People of other Faiths, Murderers or Destroyers.
@JonSmith said:
@Agent9149: But in that case, they're not doing it because THEY THINK it's wrong, they're doing it because SOCIETY thinks it's wrong, and they want to show off. They want attention, that's their reason for doing it. They think they deserve that attention, so they do something they know society would frown upon to get that attention. They don't think it's wrong, it's just a means to an end to them. So again, the OP's definition of 'someone who does something wrong knowing it's wrong' doesn't hold up, because they don't believe what they're doing, to them personally, is wrong.
The problem I'm having with all your posts in this thread is that you're claiming to know this hypothetical criminals mindset. It's like, you're justifying them based on what you assume they're thinking because you can't seem to fathom someone being evil and thinking in an evil manner. So, you bring up justification after justification, each possible, but not necessarily true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgUVqAf8Hrg
"It's fun to do bad things"
Some people think that it's fun to do bad things. They acknowledge what they're doing is bad from a moral perspective(they don't say "it's fun to break the law", they say "do bad things", they aren't thinking in terms of laws and legality), and do it anyway. They're not doing it because society thinks its wrong and they want attention. But because doing bad things brings them pleasure.
I don't know anyone like that, but I'm not gonna pretend that all criminals must be either crazy, misguided, or attention whores.
True Evil is when you are consciously aware of what kind of harm and pain your actions will cause and perpetuating them anyway regardless of how they will effect someone else's life.
In short when you knew that your doing wrong and continue to do wrong for the sake of doing wrong.
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