#1 Edited by Pfcoolio14 (1344 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you think he's missing or is holding him back? Do you think he still has more potential or is he at his max?

#2 Posted by russellmania77 (16689 posts) - - Show Bio

Strength and time

#3 Posted by PeppeyHare (4314 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing will never be on Bruce's level.

#4 Posted by Wolverine08 (47862 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing will never be on Bruce's level.

Yeah, don't ever see writers letting him get there.

#5 Posted by youknowwhattodo (1868 posts) - - Show Bio

A surge in popularity that will force the writers to make him stronger, one would say to create a "Nightgod".

#6 Posted by Z3RO180 (7653 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Pre new 52 Dick is on Bruce's level and in all is a much better hero. New 52 Dick I'm not so sure I drop the title due to money.

#7 Edited by Jake Fury (21285 posts) - - Show Bio

He needs to embrace the teachings of OWLMAN!!!

#8 Posted by bigtewell (857 posts) - - Show Bio

batcow

#9 Posted by dagmar_merrill (12055 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is this in off topic?

@z3ro180 said:

I would say Pre new 52 Dick is on Bruce's level and in all is a much better hero. New 52 Dick I'm not so sure I drop the title due to money.

What makes you say that pre 52 Nightwing is better then pre 53 Batman?

#10 Posted by Knightfall225 (2063 posts) - - Show Bio

\ Having them on the same level doesn't sound like a good idea to me

#11 Posted by SheenLantern (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

To be as popular as Batman.

#12 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8930 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick is not on Bruce's level in anyway and doesn't need to be.

#13 Posted by tupiaz (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

A good cast of villains with a long history, become more popular, get a bunch of TV shows, cartoons and movies, be popular over several generation of not just comic fans but in the general public as well. All that can maybe happen in 30 or so years.

#14 Edited by nickzambuto (17814 posts) - - Show Bio

Time.

Dick Grayson is best described as a "mini Batman". Whereas all the other Robins lack at least one of Bruce's core skills that make him Batman, Nightwing expresses them all, just to a lesser extent than Bruce Wayne. Most importantly, in my opinion he is so far the only Robin to fully match Bruce's will and dedication to justice. Jason Todd obviously failed the most in this aspect, which is why he can never be or even match Batman. Tim Drake for all his deduction skills lacks in physical prowess. And Damian is still an arrogant little d*ck. Dick Grayson on the other hand? He's a great strategist, a more than competent detective, an experienced and extremely adaptable fighter, has an unbreakable will, the list goes on. Just not on Bruce's level yet since he's more than twice Dick's age.

#15 Edited by Yokergeist (12483 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing? I thought his name was Batman's b!tch.

#16 Edited by Jnr6Lil (8188 posts) - - Show Bio

The OP is too vague in the question.

If you're talking in popularity/the real world, that's a whole another story.

In terms of the comics, Pre 52 Nightwing & Pre 52 Batman are seen as equals. I even think Bruce said Dick had the potential to surpass him as he was more of a people person and didn't shroud himself in the darkness.

#17 Edited by JetiiMitra (9237 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing doesn't need to catch up to Batman. If anything, he's already passed him. He's younger (closer to biological prime), more agile, and faster, plus I think he wears a lighter suit (Bruce's cape can't help with movement).

#18 Edited by frozenedge (1441 posts) - - Show Bio

He needs to adopt a few orphan kids and dress them up in bright clothing, get one of them killed, treat one like a son, then have an illegitimate son with one of his enemies and make him his sidekick

#19 Edited by JetiiMitra (9237 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozenedge said:

He needs to adopt a few orphan kids and dress them up in bright clothing, get one of them killed, treat one like a son, then have an illegitimate son with one of his enemies and make him his sidekick

Hmm... He could already be on the way to having an illegitimate son.

cough*Tarantula*cough

#20 Edited by Teerack (8995 posts) - - Show Bio

He need to be a lot smarter and learn new things.

#21 Edited by SilverPool (3057 posts) - - Show Bio

He needs to be as obsessive as Bruce, which he luckily isn't.

I'd say as far as combat skill, I'd say Dick is on his level especially since he's probably faster, but he's not as strong (as far as I know) and he doesn't have the whole omniscient thing going for him.

#22 Posted by frozenedge (1441 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: I forgot about Tarantula. Has she shown up in the New 52 yet?

#23 Posted by explodingpineapple (951 posts) - - Show Bio

He needs Supergirl as his grilfriend. Haha, then he could beat Batman, unless maybe Batman had prep.

#24 Posted by JetiiMitra (9237 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozenedge: I don't think so, but we know one possibility for a mother if DC wants to spring a kid with an enemy on Dick.

#25 Posted by wildvine (10784 posts) - - Show Bio

To have been created before Batman.

Moderator Online
#26 Posted by frozenedge (1441 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: Yeah that could definitely work out. I wonder how they'd handle it though. If they'd try and do it in a similar manner to Bruce and Damien or make the situation completely different

#27 Posted by LyraFay (2642 posts) - - Show Bio

I think if he was less optimistic then he would catch up with Batman. But then he wouldn't be Dick Grayson!

#28 Edited by Nefarious (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

A miracle.

#29 Posted by jumpstart55 (2697 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing will never be on Bruces level because hes on his own level.

#30 Edited by HushoftheWind (1202 posts) - - Show Bio

He needs to show the same feats that Daredevil show against Captain America.

#31 Posted by Jayc1324 (16590 posts) - - Show Bio

He basically needs to get better at everything except acrobatics, because batman trumps him in everything else. But he was acting as batman before so he is already good enough. Just not as good as bruce. He also needs to develop a mentality like bruce

#32 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20892 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

Nightwing doesn't need to catch up to Batman. If anything, he's already passed him. He's younger (closer to biological prime), more agile, and faster, plus I think he wears a lighter suit (Bruce's cape can't help with movement).

Nightwing is nowhere near as good as Batman in anything but acrobatic skills.

#33 Edited by JetiiMitra (9237 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@mitran said:

Nightwing doesn't need to catch up to Batman. If anything, he's already passed him. He's younger (closer to biological prime), more agile, and faster, plus I think he wears a lighter suit (Bruce's cape can't help with movement).

Nightwing is nowhere near as good as Batman in anything but acrobatic skills.

It was a joke, albeit a poorly thought out one. And he's a better people person.

#34 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20892 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@mitran said:

Nightwing doesn't need to catch up to Batman. If anything, he's already passed him. He's younger (closer to biological prime), more agile, and faster, plus I think he wears a lighter suit (Bruce's cape can't help with movement).

Nightwing is nowhere near as good as Batman in anything but acrobatic skills.

It was a joke, albeit a poorly thought out one. And he's a better people person.

Definitely.

#35 Edited by Alak (972 posts) - - Show Bio
@pfcoolio14 said:

What do you think he's missing or is holding him back? Do you think he still has more potential or is he at his max?

(The following wall-o-test is in regards to New 52 Nightwing)

In regards to your first question:

  1. Rogues Gallery: he has an unimpressive one. Heroes grow in power and capabilities through experience, and the experience gained from overcoming great villains helps breed great heroes. Since Flashpoint, Dick has outclassed all of his opponents except Shiva and the Crime Syndicate (and they're not part of his rogues gallery). While it may be said that Batman is capable of handling his own rogues, his villains at least pose enough challenge to the point where we know there's a possibility that he could easily die at any point (if you ignore the fact that writers won't let him). Nightwing doesn't have that sort of intrigue, since he's been the obvious superior to his foes. Pre-52 Nightwing had some really great villains (i.e.- Deathstroke, Blockbuster, Red Hood, etc.) but currently he doesn't have quality villains to fight against. If the villains he fights aren't up to par with the villains Batman fights, then Nightwing can't hope to elevate his game to Batman's playing field.
  2. Supporting cast: he lost his primary supporting cast post-Flashpoint. While adversity does help superheroes grow, that development is only properly cultivated with the aid of a strong supporting cast. Batman has the experience working side-by-side with god-like beings, and therefore, has learned how to deal with god-like villains as well as similarly epic problems. At home in Gotham, Batman historically has one of the strongest supporting casts (which includes Dick Grayson) we've seen out of any superhero from any comic book company. Friends are there to keep you accountable, point out your flaws, and help you grow into becoming a better man. Who does Nightwing have right now? Some roommates he barely knows who can't even help him fight crime since they don't even know he's a superhero (which might change after Forever Evil). Pre-52 Nightwing used to fight wars in space, a dimension-conquering demon, a mercenary who could solo a group of JLers, and reclaimed Gotham after all of Arkham's inmates were set free. All of that was only possible due to his supporting cast (Bat-family, Teen Titans, Justice League, misc. heroes.).

In regards to your second question:

  • Yes, he has a long road ahead of him. While his technology has improved with Flashpoint, Dick Grayson lost the two biggest factors that made him an A-lister. Granted, his new-52 run is still very young, but compared to his peers, Grayson is falling behind. Compared to Batman, he's truly diminished to the "just another" ex-sidekick status. If you look at Dick right before Flashpoint, I would say that was him at his max potential (or close to it). He had his own city, own sidekick, his own teams, and was called upon time and again to help Bruce on missions the latter could not do alone. He was loved by the public, he was loved by the police, and he was highly respected by his rogues gallery. Most of those things don't even apply this Nightwing anymore. Until he reclaims what he once had, I wouldn't consider him to be at his max, let alone Batman's level.

Disclaimer: I know this post makes me sound very critical of Nightwing where he currently stands. I just want to say mention that I still enjoy his current book, and Higgins' take on the character is still fun since Grayson still retains his wonderful personality. It's a book that I would recommend anyone to read, especially if you're a fan of the Bat-family.

#36 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (7478 posts) - - Show Bio

A writer willing to let him go the distance

#37 Edited by Yung ANcient One (5042 posts) - - Show Bio

He doesn't need to catch up. He just needs to beat that old bat one on one... maybe even kill him if he ever goes rogue but... yeah

(+)

#38 Posted by HolySerpent (13187 posts) - - Show Bio

He needs to surpass Damian Wayne first. Damian is the next batman

#39 Posted by MonsterStomp (24168 posts) - - Show Bio

Todd on the other hand. Is the next Batman.