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#1 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot of people think this is different , let me give you some ideas -

The purpose of government is to protect the rights of the individual?

Provide for national defense, foreign affairs?

Local level: maintain police and fire, run a court system?

Promote general welfare?

Is it the governments role to make sure people are healthy?

Is it the governments role to enforce drug bans and control people?

Is it the Government role to force tax on people?

Just some ideas, I don't agree with them or disagree with any necessarily , just ideas.

What do you think?

#2 Posted by FalconPuuunch (942 posts) - - Show Bio

The government should be whatever the people that it's governing WANTS it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

#3 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@FalconPuuunch said:

The government should be whatever the people that it's governing WANTS it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

That is simplistic, It can never work that simple. Somebody will always need to make the tough decisions for the public, as the public on the whole are dumb.

#4 Posted by FalconPuuunch (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@FalconPuuunch said:

The government should be whatever the people that it's governing WANTS it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

That is simplistic, It can never work that simple. Somebody will always need to make the tough decisions for the public, as the public on the whole are dumb.

Yes because one single guy is more smarter and trustworthy than an entire populace.

#5 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@FalconPuuunch said:

@Pyrogram said:

@FalconPuuunch said:

The government should be whatever the people that it's governing WANTS it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

That is simplistic, It can never work that simple. Somebody will always need to make the tough decisions for the public, as the public on the whole are dumb.

Yes because one single guy is more smarter and trustworthy than an entire populace.

One single elected guy.

#6 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@FalconPuuunch: You had me up to "More Smarter"

#7 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

Watch and learn.

A government is necessary, but it has to be kept small.

  • Big Government = Oligarchy
  • No government = Anarchy.
#8 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29330 posts) - - Show Bio

To govern.

#9 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4139 posts) - - Show Bio

To educate the roads.

#10 Posted by AtPhantom (14465 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

  • Big Government = Oligarchy

That's not what that means. For the last time America, you're a democracy. Get over it.

@Pyrogram: I'd say yes to all of those.

#11 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@FalconPuuunch: You had me up to "More Smarter"

hehe

#12 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

  • Big Government = Oligarchy

That's not what that means. For the last time America, you're a democracy. Get over it.

@Pyrogram: I'd say yes to all of those.

I see it more like a dictated democracy, you elect who you like but it never changes - the Real owners will not let it. The big people behind the president, the money makers and business owners etc..

#13 Posted by FalconPuuunch (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@FalconPuuunch: You had me up to "More Smarter"

haha More smart. Whatever dude. I would rag on you for being a grammar nazi, but this is a comic book site and comic books consist of nothing but words soooo... yeah. I'm sorry? English is my second language.

#14 Posted by Edamame (28002 posts) - - Show Bio

To control and dominate citizens.

#15 Posted by AtPhantom (14465 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

I see it more like a dictated democracy, you elect who you like but it never changes - the Real owners will not let it. The big people behind the president, the money makers and business owners etc..

Technically that'd be a corporate oligarchy or something, but that's not the point. The point was that the fetish some people have for insisting that the USA is a republic instead of a democracy is completely wrong and stupid.

#16 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Pyrogram said:

I see it more like a dictated democracy, you elect who you like but it never changes - the Real owners will not let it. The big people behind the president, the money makers and business owners etc..

Technically that'd be a corporate oligarchy or something, but that's not the point. The point was that the fetish some people have for insisting that the USA is a republic instead of a democracy is completely wrong and stupid.

It is not a true democracy though in my view. But not a republic.

#17 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

To govern.

I like the way you think.

#18 Posted by YoungJustice (6371 posts) - - Show Bio

To keep everyone in line.

#19 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

  • Big Government = Oligarchy

That's not what that means. For the last time America, you're a democracy. Get over it.

@Pyrogram: I'd say yes to all of those.

America has been a Republic for nearly 300 years.

Only since recently, it's been slowly but gradually morphing into a Democracy.

BUT WE CAN NOT ALLOW THAT!

#20 Posted by AtPhantom (14465 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

It is not a true democracy though in my view. But not a republic.

That's an issue of the flaws and faults in the system, rather than its intended purpose and function. America was envisioned and in theory is a democracy and a republic. Whether it is one in practice is an entirely different matter now.

#21 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Pyrogram said:

It is not a true democracy though in my view. But not a republic.

That's an issue of the flaws and faults in the system, rather than its intended purpose and function. America was envisioned and in theory is a democracy and a republic. Whether it is one in practice is an entirely different matter now.

True true.

#22 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungJustice said:

To keep everyone in line.

Short but true.

#23 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@AtPhantom said:

@Pyrogram said:

I see it more like a dictated democracy, you elect who you like but it never changes - the Real owners will not let it. The big people behind the president, the money makers and business owners etc..

Technically that'd be a corporate oligarchy or something, but that's not the point. The point was that the fetish some people have for insisting that the USA is a republic instead of a democracy is completely wrong and stupid.

It is not a true democracy though in my view. But not a republic.

If you truly want a democracy, then your opinions will never matter anymore.

A good example of a 100% Democracy would be.... THE BORG...

But since people are not like the Borg due to individual thoughts, these thoughts will clash and contradict and them by the time you know it; Every man and woman for themselves... Therefore, transforming into Anarchy.

A Republic is the most balanced. You need laws that apply to moral value and equal value. Not "THE MAJORITY RULES"

Democracy is "Majority Rules".

#24 Posted by Chronus (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

To govern.

That's the only answer to the question.

#25 Edited by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Pyrogram said:

@AtPhantom said:

@Pyrogram said:

I see it more like a dictated democracy, you elect who you like but it never changes - the Real owners will not let it. The big people behind the president, the money makers and business owners etc..

Technically that'd be a corporate oligarchy or something, but that's not the point. The point was that the fetish some people have for insisting that the USA is a republic instead of a democracy is completely wrong and stupid.

It is not a true democracy though in my view. But not a republic.

If you truly want a democracy, then your opinions will never matter anymore.

A good example of a 100% Democracy would be.... THE BORG...

But since people are not like the Borg due to individual thoughts, these thoughts will clash and contradict and them by the time you know it; Every man and woman for themselves... Therefore, transforming into Anarchy.

A Republic is the most balanced. You need laws that apply to moral value and equal value. Not "THE MAJORITY RULES"

Democracy is "Majority Rules".

Democracy sounds good but is broken, Dictatorships sound good but are broken ( well, they dont sound that good ) , Communism sounds good but is very flawed. You cant win xD

#26 Posted by AtPhantom (14465 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

America has been a Republic for nearly 300 years.

Only since recently, it's been slowly but gradually morphing into a Democracy.

BUT WE CAN NOT ALLOW THAT!

IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

Republic and democracy are not two mutually exclusive terms. Republic means your head of state is elective rather than hereditary. Democracy means all citizens have a right to vote on the matters which concern them. America is and always has been both a republic and a democracy and no amount of screaming is going to change that.

Also, America is only 237 years old. Not 'almost 300'.

#27 Posted by Nefarious (17622 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. 
 
Well, that is just my take on this.

#28 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. Well, that is just my take on this.

Yes, but how can they do this?

#29 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."

-John Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

Benjamin Franklin

True Democracy= Mobocracy

But to answer the question the only thing a government should do is PROTECT PERSONAL FREEDOM, something our government has long since abandoned

#30 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

@AtPhantom: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."

-John Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

Benjamin Franklin

True Democracy= Mobocracy

But to answer the question the only thing a government should do is PROTECT PERSONAL FREEDOM, something our government has long since abandoned

Is that really the only thing?

#31 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram said:

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

@AtPhantom: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."

-John Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

Benjamin Franklin

True Democracy= Mobocracy

But to answer the question the only thing a government should do is PROTECT PERSONAL FREEDOM, something our government has long since abandoned

Is that really the only thing?

When Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. realized that the Government were trying to place majority over its people to expand government, X & King refused and fought for the Republic. They didn't fight for Democracy.

Look what democracy actions are doing today?

  • TSA
  • LCAU
  • Accorn
  • etc..

All of these expensive money siphoning laws that people (the democracy) create and they conflict. Laws need to be balanced and limited and smaller than it is now.

#32 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh. The US has never been a true Democracy. The Electoral College, alone, eliminates that possibility. Among other issues.

#33 Posted by AtPhantom (14465 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

@AtPhantom: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."

-John Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

Benjamin Franklin

True Democracy= Mobocracy

But to answer the question the only thing a government should do is PROTECT PERSONAL FREEDOM, something our government has long since abandoned

The funny thing is, 200 hundred years later western democracy is still going strong.

So again I say learn what democracy means.

Democracy means rule of the people. Not mob, not majority, people. That means that every citizen has equal political rights. Every single citizen is allowed by law to engage in the political processes of the country, to be nominated for a political office and cast his vote in matters which concern the whole country, either by voting for a representative or in a referendum. It means that no single group, by law, is afforded greater political rights than the rest based on their family, wealth, ethnicity, skill or social status. That's the point of democracy. Your only other choices are either Autocracy (Rule of one) or Oligarchy (Rule of few). You'll notice Republic is not on that list because Republic is a completely different freaking thing entirely. Republic means your head of state is an electable position, meaning you are not a monarchy. That's why countries like PRC and USSR could call themselves republics while generally not being democratic.

Obviously democracy is an incredibly broad concept with numerous sub-concepts. The American founding fathers criticized democracy because 250 years ago that only meant Athenian-style direct democracy because representative democracy had not been invented yet (And just to be clear, John Adams was stupidly dead wrong. The Athenian democracy was by far the most politically resilient system Ancient Greece ever produced and its hallmarks held even long after Greece lost all independence and Athens itself became just a part of the Roman empire).

America is a representative democracy. Every western nation is a representative democracy. Many of them are also republics, many are not. Of course America has a lot of quirks in its system due to its confederative nature, states rights, electoral college, all those sorts of things, and there's a movement now to even out all those things and bring elections to a uniform federal level (Which it should, it's been centuries since the USA was anything other than a single nation), but that has nothing to do with the questions "Is US a democracy?" and "Is US a republic?", and the answer to both of those questions is YES!

#34 Edited by boostergold321 (301 posts) - - Show Bio

Life, liberty and the pursuit of fulfillment/property.

Government ......

1. Is for the common good. Helps maintain communities for us to live in and work in.

2. In order to live together in relative peaceable way, we have to keeps people's craziness under control. A lawless land is a chaotic one. No one can or wants to live in a completely hostile environment, right? Living in constant battle is no way to live.

I don't think you guys are talking about the same "democracy". I think you are talking about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness while VercingetotixTheGreat is just talking about everyone getting their way.

#35 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

To emancipate my waffles :O

#36 Posted by AtPhantom (14465 posts) - - Show Bio

@boostergold321 said:

I don't think you guys are talking about the same "democracy". I think you are talking about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness while VercingetotixTheGreat is just talking about everyone getting their way.

Yeah. We're basically arguing the definition of democracy. My point is that people don't understand what democracy actually means.

#37 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@boostergold321 said:

I don't think you guys are talking about the same "democracy". I think you are talking about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness while VercingetotixTheGreat is just talking about everyone getting their way.

Yeah. We're basically arguing the definition of democracy. My point is that people don't understand what democracy actually means.

What do you think it means or is?

#38 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

Without governance anyone for any reason (and believe me, people will FIND a reason) can abuse you with little consequences. Without governance then life would be more brutal than it already is. Humans need governance to keep them from becoming monsters. It's that simple. We are so intelligent that without putting limits on what we can do, we can do lots of damage to ourselves and our world.

#39 Posted by akbogert (3150 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph said:

Eh. The US has never been a true Democracy. The Electoral College, alone, eliminates that possibility. Among other issues.

Aye.

People are saying "democracy" when they mean "direct democracy." That is indeed mob mentality, 51% outdoes 49% every time. No, we don't have that here. Frankly I don't know anyone ever would even try. But we are a democratic republic -- every American who pledges allegiance does so to the flag, and to the republic for which it stands. Does that republic, of which the flag is meant to be a symbol, actually exist? Is there such thing as "one nation, indivisible?" Hardly. Does our nation provide "liberty and justice for all?" No way. So if half the things we claim our country to be don't exist, then I suppose the fact that our pledge calls it a republic isn't really useful either. But at least in concept, that's what we are.

The Declaration of Independence, as probably anyone who is bothering to comment here already knows, suggested that we have rights because God gave them to us; that both those facts -- the existence of the rights, and their origin -- are so obvious that they don't need to be proven; and that governments are established to protect those rights.

Now of course this thread, with it's emphasis on the "YOU" in "What do YOU think the role of government is," is all about opinion, not proof. But I personally agree wholeheartedly with the Declaration of Independence's understanding of man, God, rights, and the role of government.

#40 Posted by kuonphobos (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

We the people of the United States,

(A) in order to form a more perfect union,

(B) establish justice,

(C) insure domestic tranquility,

(D) provide for the common defense,

(E) promote the general welfare,

(F) and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity,

do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

#41 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

I think some people need to read the Federalist Papers.

#42 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph said:

I think some people need to read the Federalist Papers.

^

#43 Posted by Nefarious (17622 posts) - - Show Bio
@Pyrogram said:

@Nefarious said:

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. Well, that is just my take on this.

Yes, but how can they do this?

They can do this by getting to to the root of our problems and implementing laws. 
#44 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Nefarious said:

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. Well, that is just my take on this.

Yes, but how can they do this?

They can do this by getting to to the root of our problems and implementing laws.

That's never going to happen xD

#45 Posted by Nefarious (17622 posts) - - Show Bio
@Pyrogram: Never say never, as they say. :)
#46 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16861 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Nefarious said:

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. Well, that is just my take on this.

Yes, but how can they do this?

They can do this by getting to to the root of our problems and implementing laws.

And what are the roots of problems? and implement which laws?

#47 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nefarious said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Nefarious said:

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. Well, that is just my take on this.

Yes, but how can they do this?

They can do this by getting to to the root of our problems and implementing laws.

And what are the roots of problems? and implement which laws?

The root of the problem is us...humans. Sorry to say but it is true. You will never have a perfect government when humans running it and those under it won't all do the right thing.

We can legislate laws but we cannot legislate morality. The problem is not so much government as it is morality.

Would we need so many laws if people cared about each other enough not to harm each other? I think not. Would we need so many laws if people did not take needless risks with their lives? Laws are a way to curb the dangerous side of humanity. And we can only hope that people do the right thing, we are not gods, we are only human.

#48 Posted by Pyrogram (32234 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorbo said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nefarious said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Nefarious said:

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. Well, that is just my take on this.

Yes, but how can they do this?

They can do this by getting to to the root of our problems and implementing laws.

And what are the roots of problems? and implement which laws?

The root of the problem is us...humans. Sorry to say but it is true. You will never have a perfect government when humans running it and those under it won't all do the right thing.

We can legislate laws but we cannot legislate morality. The problem is not so much government as it is morality.

Would we need so many laws if people cared about each other enough not to harm each other? I think not. Would we need so many laws if people did not take needless risks with their lives? Laws are a way to curb the dangerous side of humanity. And we can only hope that people do the right thing, we are not gods, we are only human.

If you blame humans we are never going to improve. Sorry but that's a lame argument. Move past humanity sucks.

#49 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not dissing humanity...I am human for crying out-loud.

Just because life isn't rosy does not mean we should not accept life for what it is. And I never said there isn't a way to improve, but that way is to do the things that are good but HARD.

#50 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16861 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorbo said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Nefarious said:

@Pyrogram said:

@Nefarious said:

I think the role of government is to make the country a better place for future and current generations. Well, that is just my take on this.

Yes, but how can they do this?

They can do this by getting to to the root of our problems and implementing laws.

And what are the roots of problems? and implement which laws?

The root of the problem is us...humans. Sorry to say but it is true. You will never have a perfect government when humans running it and those under it won't all do the right thing.

We can legislate laws but we cannot legislate morality. The problem is not so much government as it is morality.

Would we need so many laws if people cared about each other enough not to harm each other? I think not. Would we need so many laws if people did not take needless risks with their lives? Laws are a way to curb the dangerous side of humanity. And we can only hope that people do the right thing, we are not gods, we are only human.

I don't agree as humans we do wrong but we are capable of learning.We need laws I agree.I think we need laws to make sure people follow those values and if they don't there are consequences as it as all to do with the structure of society.

Morality is something we have created and it changes and progresses over time.

But I was asking another user as to what they meant not you.