Wealth Distribution in U.S.

Just thought some of you might be interested in this.

Please comment with your thoughts.

Boo hoo! Still a better status than all 3rd world countries. And the 3rd World's status in the world stage is comparable to the "poorest" image in that analysis.

We will never be 100% equal. Forcibly taking money from people is wrong.

This is ridiculous beyond belief. There is always going to be an uneven distribution of wealth because thats an effect of a capitalist economy. The people who are successful get rewarded with being rich which is everyone's goal in life. Not everybody becomes rich but the majority that aren't rich are better of the people in this country are better off than most places in the world.

If people really care so much about wealth equality than go live in country that does and you'll see quickly how corrupt that idea really is. Cuba is not that far away and see what wealth equality does for you and how it destroys a country. The only way everybody can make the same amount money is to make everybody poor.

The Law of The Word of Man states:

Every Country is equal in the level of corruption regard less of form of Government.

This is a fallacious argument. There are not simply two alternatives, unrestrained capitalism and communism. On top of that you're throwing another fallacious argument, a straw man. No one said that we want zero wealth inequality. Did you even bother to watch the video before your started typing your rant? No, I suppose not. The question is whether we have too much wealth inequality. If the extent of the depth of your criticism of the video is to spout off fallacious argument after fallacious argument, this only tells me that you really have nothing to contribute to this topic.

And you got this from the video... how? Let me guess, you're a fan of Fox News. Am I right?

I don't understand why a lot of comments are so defensive. Something that I always like thinking about, reflecting on is the idea that my perceptions are faulting me and actively going about trying to ensure that I get a good objective understanding of what actually is, not what I think it is. Forgetting about the specifics and negatives and positives about wealth inequality for a bit, when people's perception of reality is off thats a problem. Money like death tends to bring out peoples emotions, or defensiveness, but such important things should really be considered with a persons critical mind and reason not emotions. Where people have a inaccurate view of reality, well there is room for improvement naturally, and thats okay, first step is for people to know they are misunderstanding what actually is, not suddenly reduce the "argument" into good or bad nor point to how things are worse elsewhere.

I mean sure we can tell victims of physical and domestic abuse "so what, in countries overseas children are being killed - man up lady and get your kids with bruises out of my chill zone" but of course they are, fortunately the world isn't so black and white and the scope, scale and application of injustices have different causes, catalysts, solutions and ways to handle and deal with them. Life in United States can be hard for a very hard working, intelligent poor person, in spite of hard work, intelligence, creativity, all sorts just because of economic mobility factors, and well yeah there are a lot of other countries they could potentially go to like Finland, Sweden and Denmark but thats not quite how it works either nor should they have to, nor should being critical of something mean having to and so on.

This smells of Socialism. People should get what they earn in the United States, and I am not talking about taxes. We already have a President that rewards the most negligent of citizens for being exactly that...negligent.

There are to many people who have a reliance on bureaucratic assistance and that's bottoming out the middle class.

Typical liberal reply.

@nerdork said:

This smells of Socialism. People should get what they earn in the United States, and I am not talking about taxes. We already have a President that rewards the most negligent of citizens for being exactly that...negligent.

That's exaclty what this is. Socialism...

Pure capitalism is, by definition, an economic system that encourages greed, and is therefore immoral. The whole point is that everyone looks out for number one, and that somehow everything will equalize. I really hate the idea.

Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, with the goal of making a profit.

Nothing wrong with that.

What's wrong, is that it incentivizes greed. Maybe it isn't capitalism, but laissez-faire capitalism that is the problem, but the idea, by itself, is not moral. All I'm saying is that there are some aspects of society that need to be socialized. Luckily, most of them are in the US. Unluckily, some people are trying to change that.

There's nothing wrong with that, but no one is saying that there is. What he means by "pure capitalism" is likely capitalism with no laws to restrict it, or what's often called unrestrained capitalism. Unrestrained capitalism is more like what we used to have in the U.S. before a lot of the labor laws, the environmental regulations, the anti-monopoly laws, etc. In short, unrestrained capitalism is a really bad thing, except for those few at the top who profit from it.

@willpayton: Yeah, basically that. Thanks for clarifying much better than I did.

Thank you for sharing that. Very informative/interesting.

@willpayton: I didn't even mention the word communism or say there were only two alternatives in my comment, and I'm the one with the fallacious argument? You can't even quote me correctly. I gave you an example of how great wealth equality can be and how corrupt this idea really is. I can tell you're all for redistributing wealth but like most people they never realize how bad it is until it happens to them.

In case you didn't see this image the first time I'll show you again. Pretty unfair for that little girl who worked hard getting those legos while the kids who were sleeping get the same amount doing nothing. The idea is incredibly illogical and easily corruptible.

@ssejllenrad: dumbest comment ever! The video isn't about being better off than a 3rd world country. It's about a sustainable economy that promotes growth. That's why Republican and Democrat alike constantly talk about the middle class. The middle class is what any economy is based on and the fact that the bottom 80% of Americans have 7% of the wealth in the nation is not sustainable.

My point is that this video is whining despite the fact that there are people that are in far worse conditions.

You brought up Cuba for no reason, so yeah you brought up Communism. Or, did you start talking about Cuba without even knowing that it's a Communist country? And yes your whole comment is a fallacious one. You start off talking about "this is a ridiculous belief" even though you dont even say what belief you're talking about. The video simply talks about what the wealth distribution is, and doesnt proclaim anything about how we need to all "make the same amount of money", which is something you throw in there again for whatever reason. It seems like you're just ranting about whatever's in your head rather than what the video talked about. The video even said that what it wants to accomplish is to make people realize that the reality is not what they think it is. But, you probably didnt even bother to watch the entire video before posting, did you?

No one said anything about making everyone equal, or taking money from anyone, or making everyone poor. Your entire post suggests that you either have wealth equality (which you equate with Cuba) or you dont. That's a false dichotomy. And, you fail to even consider that there might be a middle ground. But hey, why have to think about subtleties when you can just start ranting about Cuba and making everyone poor, even though it's not the topic of discussion, or even anything that anyone is suggesting?

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

In case you didn't see this image the first time I'll show you again. Pretty unfair for that little girl who worked hard getting those legos while the kids who were sleeping get the same amount doing nothing. The idea is incredibly illogical and easily corruptible.

This is a stupid image, and the fact that you insist on posting it tells me that there's no point in trying to reason with you. This is just another fallacy, a straw man this time... make up a stupid scenario that never happened in real life and then point out how unfair it is. Oh look! That evil Obama! He's trying to take away the legos from that girl!!! LOL... just... sad.

The problem here is that we have a system that is biased towards those who can afford to throw money at politicians and buy influence. We dont have a system where everyone gets equal opportunity or even an equal chance to influence our elected representatives. Those with a lot of money get more influence, and that makes things inherently unfair and creates the conditions where money and power keeps getting sucked from the poor to the rich. Then people like you insist on not listening when others point this out, and you only hear what you want to hear... and make stupid images with Obama taking legos from children, as if that makes a point other than that you're being closed minded and intellectually dishonest.

Exactly right.

Your point completely misses the point. However "bad" some may have it in the world, that is no excuse to accept that people should also be living in bad conditions and have little access to the opportunity to succeed and live good lives here. You're basically saying that you dont give a shit about others or how unfair things are for them, as long as you're ok. And, you also miss the point that high wealth inequality is not a sustainable thing for a society. All this does is lead to social unrest and it destabilizes economies. It's not a coincidence that right before the Great Depression we also have very high wealth inequality, which dropped and stayed fairly low for a long time afterwards until around the late 80's.

Okay, let me just go to wikipedia and see how much you need to make to be in the top 20%.

92,000.

Okay guys. Now we know who the enemy is. Lets go get these making 92000+ a year a**holes!

???

Doesn't matter in this discussion. The whole point is a sustainable economy. The US has for the past 100 or so years America has been touted as the wealthiest and greatest country in the world. If we want to stay that way then this cannot continue. Wealth cannot be distributed to the top 1% and be expected to "trickle down" in order to grow an economy. As it is the middle class in the country is dying a slow and painful death. What the country needs is for that top 1% to reinvest into the middle class with higher wages and more job growth opportunities.

Oh my god....can you stop it with the whining already? Sheesh....

@willpayton: @lykopis: @night_thrasher: Yeah, I'm an a*s.... I'll show my way out.

@ssejllenrad: your just ill-informed. The video is actually facts that should be digested and used accordingly instead of calling it whining.

@ssejllenrad:

We know that children in some countries are given advantages over other children, hell we know that children inherently have genetic advantages over other children, we know that when children are born, their surroundings when they are born will start offering them additional advantages and subtracting advantages they may have had. Many societies and countries are aware of such things, they try to balance them, have ideals like freedom and peace and fairness. You know like the idea that someone who is as or more intelligent, has better qualifications, harder working, more creative, whatever qualities are relevant will not be overlooked by another person who isn't as intelligent, has better qualifications, harder working, more creative, whatever qualities are relevant to whatever scenario - but is given precedence because of family relations, skin color, attractiveness, and just things of that nature. Yes this is very basic stuff yeah? Not as basic as a meme though, because yeah sure its unfair for the efforts of peoples hard work to be given to others who don't work hard, but a even greater truth here is that a lot of people suck at accurately identifying what hard work is (as well as all the qualities typically associated with work and effort) and a lot of people naturally are biased to their own work and efforts - which leads you to societies where people are afraid of having things taken away from them and given to others in a perceptive sense whilst things are being taken away from them and given to a different group of people. I mean if only people weren't so psychologically and emotionally invested in themselves and their supposed hard work and qualities just to you know, actually look at and address the relatively more objective facts surrounding such things - without responding defensively or by introducing fallacies or trying to point at another situation cynically. Maybe thats just the scientist in me though.

@lykopis: LOL! That just makes me want to stay.

@ssejllenrad:

That's just my funny way of preventing you from leaving. ;)

Same here. I come from a scientific background, so I see things in terms of assumptions, methodologies, conclusions, biases, and logic. People are just really bad at using "common sense" to make decisions, so we should go with the data and let it lead us.

Whatever you think about economics, and who here is really an expert on economics, I think that the main point of the video is a valid one. We have a really bad idea of what is actually going on. If we make policies based on thinking that the world is already a pretty fair place, but in fact it's very much unfair, then we're making bad decisions. Period.

The video also makes it clear that we dont necessarily want a completely equal distribution of wealth. I dont. We need the "inequality" to provide things like incentives to do better, and so on. But, what if the system is biased? In that case common sense about "working harder" to achieve more simply goes out the window. You can be lazy and corrupt and rise to the top in such a system. Is that really what people want?

@sc: You have my respect and adoration.

Informative video, thanks for posting it!

I think a lot of times when people talk about "capitalism" or "socialism" they really dont understand what they're talking about, or fail to know or learn from history. And, the media doesnt help. If we've learned one thing from the last 150 or so years, it's that unrestrained capitalism doesnt work very well, and causes as many problems as it solves. What we have now, which is somewhere in between capitalism and socialism, is a pretty good compromise.

Unfortunately we have media networks like Fox News that push false notions of how capitalism actually works, what I call Stupid Capitalism. One example is supply-side economics. But, that's a completely different topic.

@willpayton: yea i found that a lot of ppl who talk about socialism dnt really know exactly what it is. Fox News has completely warped the perception.

@nerdork said:

This smells of Socialism. People should get what they earn in the United States, and I am not talking about taxes. We already have a President that rewards the most negligent of citizens for being exactly that...negligent.

I find this kind of offensive. My aunt served in the US army and was released after getting injured while on leave. Because of some loop bull sh*t she didn't receive the normal assistance that injured soldiers receive after being declared "unfit" for duty. She has permanent nerve damage all along her face and suffers from extreme anxiety and has a lot of other mental issues. She has been through literal hell and now the only way she can feed her children is by resorting to Social Security and Welfare.

I don't like the idea of the US government taking money out of the pockets of people against their will anymore than the next guy (mostly because I believe that people would generally assist their neighbors without being forced) but don't assume that everyone on assistance lazy. It only takes a really bad hand to have your whole world turned upside down. You don't have to care or agree that these people need this money but don't generalize them so easily.

It's also a really bad, oversimplified representation.

I'm very sorry to hear that. =(

There should be an option for those ignoramuses who consider social assistance "the good life" to actually experience it. Utter and complete idiots - all of them.

Well said. Thank you <3

@lykopis:You, sir, have my respect and adoration as well.

Can anyone name one country with even wealth distribution? It has never worked and never will work.

The whole argument about how rich people only inherit money and don't work at all is a huge lie. It is about as accurate as saying all poor people are poor because they are lazy and spend all their money on drugs and alcohol.

@willpayton said:

The scientist in us both appreciates reality, objectivity, finding out sincere answers to sincere questions. Ego, biases, insecurities and emotions are left at the door. Aspects of science are designed to eliminate and reduce the things I mentioned. I like you also tend to see things in terms of assumptions, methodologies, conclusions, biases, and logic. I would also assume you value and engage in critical thinking and not just in a buzz word sense either, but that you have trained yourself to question yourself and decisions in ways that are critical towards your conclusions and assumptions and you'd probably do that more than say try and reassure yourself fallaciously. I mean why spend time and effort justifying bad decisions after you make them, when you can actually make sure you make good decisions by having your own internal process that points out problems and errors before you make any. Now I might be wrong and that your every single first thought is the right one and you don't have to consider it at all but even then science is basically the longer bigger external version of critical thinking that can be done in a group and that actually achieves practical results that can and are used everyday.

I really dislike the term common sense, too many times have I experienced people using that term to justify opinions or knowledge they can't actually explain or demonstrate heh heh. You know the funny thing about the video you presented? There's a part talking about peoples perceptions, and like a lot of videos dealing with peoples perceptions there is this funny reaction that humans can have to such stimuli will try to affirm that "they already knew such research" even if they would have been in the group whose perceptions were off. Your also going to get people who are going to be ultra skeptical about such research if they feel such research leads to a point they don't agree with - sort of like your other thread but this type of skepticism will only manifest itself based on their feelings. I mean we have both argued against people at this site who by their own admission are skeptical of science and consider scientists liars - we have even argued against people who try to assert that science is a religion. So we are both use to seeing this pattern emerge where peoples reasons seem decided on the basis of beliefs, and those beliefs themselves seem based on emotion or psychology that basically revolves around subjective experiences, knowledge, ideas, beliefs. Subjective hence not exclusive as far as claims and assertions hence not proven or demonstrable as valid hence why are they valid and reasonable? Things like faith. Oh naturally thats as far as ones acceptance of information that they consider right - other funny things happen as far as the why and how of rejecting information, like the video you presented.

Did the video, or did you talk about any country that has equal wealth distribution? I mean lets forgot how one could even define equal wealth distribution in a practical sense, so this idea that some people are projecting some financial utopian paradise and using that as a basis to complain about reality is evading the actual information presented. Its as if one of us went to a burger joint and asked for a cheeseburger with lettuce, mayo, beef paddy, and sesame seed toasted buns, and getting served a fishburger with stale bread no sesame seeds, mustard and a pickle in it. Then if we criticized what we got served having the guy at checkout telling us the perfect cheeseburger is only a fantasy that will never be achieved. No one is asking for the perfect cheeseburger or a country with equal wealth distribution, what people will talk about is when something is working as efficiently and effectively as it could be, and people will criticize something when it can be better and when it can be improved. In fact in most walks of life when you talk to people about having their life improved in someway, they seemed thrilled, the only instances they aren't? Is when they believe they are being threatened in some way - evolutionary throwback maybe. When it comes to America and wealth distribution all the stats and numbers point at a lot of people betting and arguing against their best interests. Which isn't to say the proposed solution is equal wealth distribution nor is it saying that rich people don't work hard, I am not sure where you or the video said that either. Another small easy way to look at it is that a child in Denmark has a better chance of having a different financial status in life than his father if he works for it than a child in America. So a child in Denmark will typically be rewarded for his own individual efforts, (whether negatively or poorly) and alternatively with the factor of his fathers own financial situation minimized on average more than that of an American child. which of course has lead to the famous/infamous saying about the best place to live the American dream is in Denmark... well I don't live in Denmark and I don't want to move there either, I simply what my country and other peoples countries to treat its people better and I would like people to try and be okay with changing their perspectives and opinions on things by looking at as much objective information as they can without having an emotional or defensive reaction, just because information doesn't gel with their presupposed ideas. As well as having people that care about looking for objective and demonstrated and scientific answers to questions to provide a basis for people to use that to inform their views about reality.

I think it's funny that Americans are brainwashed from birth to hate anything thats Socialist without actually knowing what it is

@falconpuuunch said:

@nerdork said:

This smells of Socialism. People should get what they earn in the United States, and I am not talking about taxes. We already have a President that rewards the most negligent of citizens for being exactly that...negligent.

I find this kind of offensive. My aunt served in the US army and was released after getting injured while on leave. Because of some loop bull sh*t she didn't receive the normal assistance that injured soldiers receive after being declared "unfit" for duty. She has permanent nerve damage all along her face and suffers from extreme anxiety and has a lot of other mental issues. She has been through literal hell and now the only way she can feed her children is by resorting to Social Security and Welfare.

I don't like the idea of the US government taking money out of the pockets of people against their will anymore than the next guy (mostly because I believe that people would generally assist their neighbors without being forced) but don't assume that everyone on assistance lazy. It only takes a really bad hand to have your whole world turned upside down. You don't have to care or agree that these people need this money but don't generalize them so easily.

If you find this offensive, I apologize; however, would you consider a wounded soldier as a negligent citizen? I wouldn't. My post clearly says negligent, not those that sacfriced their bodies for our country. Of course we should have an excellent soldier support system. What sickens me, is that we dont. That, in part, is because of how much our government rewards those that have never done anything to the betterment of society, yet recieve better care than you aunt does. In all sincerity, I thank your aunt for what she has done for our country, and mourn the fact that she is not getting the attention she so duly deserves.

But, answer this, as you seem to agree with an even spread of wealth; Should unemployed people, who dont pay for their own health care, who continue to have children with no regard for the resources they take from the Welfare system, be privileged to the same care you wish your aunt to receive?

Not everything can be even, and still be called fair.

@nerdork:

It was his aunt, not his mother -- but hey - skimming information and employing a meme to express your opinion makes sense now.