• 103 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#1 Edited by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Was the Michael Jordan dynasty eras over rated because of the quality of the teams that were around ?

#2 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

No. He went through isiah's pistons, shaq & penny's magic, clyde's trailblazers, magic's lakers, reggie's pacers, barkley's suns, etc. The league was not only talented then, but the best players were playing. Unlike these playoffs with rose, rondo, westbrook, kobe, etc. all injured.

#3 Posted by PowerHerc (85081 posts) - - Show Bio

His era was a bit overrated but he wasn't.

#4 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2246 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#5 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely. Jordan played in a watered down era and caught all of his opponents out of their primes for the most part.

#6 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

That era of basketball was great and fun to watch. Unlike watching the thugs that inhabit the NBA today.

#7 Posted by Xwraith (19366 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

And with Hill and Kidd gone, Juwan Howard is the only player from that era left.

#8 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

Hell no!

#9 Edited by SupremeHyperion (1534 posts) - - Show Bio

no I hated the bulls but I must say that era may have been underrated still...

#10 Posted by laflux (16816 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (11442 posts) - - Show Bio

The Era itself, dont.

Jordan, hell yes.

Also is true that Jordan was at his prime when the other playes werent, Jordan would had never being so biug if all those guy were at their prime.

#13 Edited by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
@novi_homines said:

No. He went through isiah's pistons, shaq & penny's magic, clyde's trailblazers, magic's lakers, reggie's pacers, barkley's suns, etc.

Alot of these teams weren't that good. Had they faced the Spurs with Robinson & Duncan or the Lakers with Kobe & Shaq, hell even this season's Miami Heat the outcome probably would have been the same.

@novi_homines said:

The league was not only talented then, but the best players were playing. Unlike these playoffs with rose, rondo, westbrook, kobe, etc. all injured.

You're talking about 1 season. All those players played (accept D.Rose got hurt) last season and the Heat still won. The season that Miami got knocked out by Dallas, D.Rose was MVP and even with a healthy Joakim Noah and Loul Deng they lost 4-1 in the playoffs. Miami would have been in the finals this season regardless.

Moderator
#14 Posted by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

NO

#15 Posted by Nefarious (21276 posts) - - Show Bio

Kinda.

Online
#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

His era was a bit overrated but he wasn't.

Moderator
#17 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

Space Jam was awesome!

#18 Edited by Delphic (1504 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

Space Jam was awesome!

I SECOND THIS! ONE OF MY FAVORITE ALL TIME MOVIES!

#19 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Alot of these teams weren't that good. Had they faced the Spurs with Robinson & Duncan or the Lakers with Kobe & Shaq, hell even this season's Miami Heat the outcome probably would have been the same.

Ok so barkley & hersey hawkins on the same team isn't that good? Bad Boy Pistons weren't that good (fresh off of a championship in 91)? Magic and worthy on the same team weren't that good? Ewing and stark's knicks weren't that good? Clyde's trailblazers weren't that good? Lol you do know that he averaged about 25, 7, and 7 in that year mj met up with him in the finals right? He was second in mvp voting only to MJ. Not to even mention one of the greatest guard/ center duos in nba history, malone and stockton. Ican't honestly believe you think these teams aren't that good.

You're talking about 1 season. All those players played (accept D.Rose got hurt) last season and the Heat still won. The season that Miami got knocked out by Dallas, D.Rose was MVP and even with a healthy Joakim Noah and Loul Deng they lost 4-1 in the playoffs. Miami would have been in the finals this season regardless.

I'm not even talking about Miami. But I guess here lies the real question of this thread. "Does lebron face tougher playoff matchups than MJ did? No. You may argue the quality of the teams mj faced during the playoffs. But one thing is certain, for the most part they're all better than the bucks, depleted bulls, pacers, 76ers (last yr), etc. that the heat have faced in the last few years.

Jordan beat Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley (twice), Patrick Ewing (four times), Reggie Miller, Dikembe Mutombo, the duos of Shaquille O’Neal and Anfernee Hardaway, Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway and Alonzo Mourning (twice), and John Stockton and Karl Malone (twice).

lol Yeah, very overrated competition.......

#20 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

His era was a bit overrated but he wasn't.

#21 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

The Era itself, dont.

Jordan, hell yes.

Also is true that Jordan was at his prime when the other playes werent, Jordan would had never being so biug if all those guy were at their prime.

How was MJ overrated?

#22 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

Jordans Bulls would have wrecked Kobe's Lakers and Duncan's Spurs.

#23 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

Jordans Bulls would have wrecked Kobe's Lakers and Duncan's Spurs.

That's debatable, I see Shaq and Kobe Lakers beating some of Jordans Bull's.

#24 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: There is a reason why the Bulls never lost a championship in that era and its due to Jordan. Shaq and Kobe can't say the same. 6 and 0 when it counted. Hell if he didn't retire the first time they probably would've won 8 in a row. Nobody was or is on Jordan's level, he was the ultimate assassin and closer. His numbers, rings and various other achievements make this an open and shut case.

#25 Posted by laflux (16816 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

Space Jam was awesome!

All my basketball knowledge comes that film.........

And I wonder why I suck at it.

#26 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub:

There is a reason why the Bulls never lost a championship in that era and its due to Jordan.

The Shaq and Kobe team I am referring to, is the 2000-01 Lakers the same team that went NBA history best 15-1 in the post season,if it were not for A.I going straight beast mode in game 1 of the 2001 finals they would have swept the playoffs.

Shaq and Kobe can't say the same. 6 and 0 when it counted.

None of this really matters,we are talking about who would win if they faced of, i'm particularly talking about a specific Shaq/Kobe team,the Bulls would have a hard time dealing with Shaq and this is a better version of the same Shaq led Magic team that bounced MJ out of the playoffs.

Hell if he didn't retire the first time they probably would've won 8 in a row.

Speculation that really can't be proven I could say if Shaq and Kobe got along they would have way more championships then they have now but sadly they don't.

Nobody was or is on Jordan's level, he was the ultimate assassin and closer. His numbers, rings and various other achievements make this an open and shut case.

I never said MJ was not the best,neither have I ever said Kobe or Shaq was on his level so I do not even know why this was even stated.

#27 Edited by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines said:

@vance_astro said:

Alot of these teams weren't that good. Had they faced the Spurs with Robinson & Duncan or the Lakers with Kobe & Shaq, hell even this season's Miami Heat the outcome probably would have been the same.

Ok so barkley & hersey hawkins on the same team isn't that good? Bad Boy Pistons weren't that good (fresh off of a championship in 91)? Magic and worthy on the same team weren't that good? Ewing and stark's knicks weren't that good? Clyde's trailblazers weren't that good? Lol you do know that he averaged about 25, 7, and 7 in that year mj met up with him in the finals right? He was second in mvp voting only to MJ. Not to even mention one of the greatest guard/ center duos in nba history, malone and stockton. Ican't honestly believe you think these teams aren't that good.

No, I don't think ALL of those teams are that good. They are are all good teams in their own right but as far as being the proof that Jordan's era isn't overrated, I don't think they are up to standard. Don't think about what superstars those teams had, think about how they would have to match up with the Bulls and who was guarding who. When you say one of the greatest guard duos in NBA history, you mean Starks & Ewing, right? John Starks is mediocre. There were way better center\guard duos in this era. The only truly great guard\center combo of that era was Clyde\Hakeem and as far as I know Jordan has never had to meet them in the playoffs because the season they won the title, Jordan was playing baseball and they are in two different conferences.

I'm not even talking about Miami. But I guess here lies the real question of this thread. "Does lebron face tougher playoff matchups than MJ did? No. You may argue the quality of the teams mj faced during the playoffs. But one thing is certain, for the most part they're all better than the bucks, depleted bulls, pacers, 76ers (last yr), etc. that the heat have faced in the last few years.

Jordan beat Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley (twice), Patrick Ewing (four times), Reggie Miller, Dikembe Mutombo, the duos of Shaquille O’Neal and Anfernee Hardaway, Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway and Alonzo Mourning (twice), and John Stockton and Karl Malone (twice).

lol Yeah, very overrated competition.......

You said that "the best players played" and then cited players that got injured along the way. Only the in the Eastern Conference would that have not made a difference either way. The Celtics wouldn't have been able to beat Miami with or without Rondo nor would the Bulls have been able to beat them with or without D.Rose. The Lakers lost Kobe but they played horrible all season, chances are the Spurs still would have beaten them. We don't know what would have happened if Westbrook didn't get hurt but that seems to be the only uncertain outcome. Has Jordan beaten better teams than Lebron has in the playoffs? Absolutely but the Eastern Conference is garbage, and Lebron hasn't always made the finals but you have to remember the Western Conference is WAY better than the East and when you make the finals you have to play the best of the conference. Miami has had to face Dirk's 2011 Mavs who steamrolled a good Lakers team..probably better than the Lakers team that Jordan beat in the finals and they had a fairly easy road to the finals. They also had to face OKC a team with two MVP candidates, one of which was the scoring champ and the other a top 5 PG in the league.

Moderator
#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub said:

Jordans Bulls would have wrecked Kobe's Lakers and Duncan's Spurs.

You have to be joking.

Nobody was or is on Jordan's level

Lebron James is.

Moderator
#29 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@delphic said:

@lykopis said:

Space Jam was awesome!

I SECOND THIS! ONE OF MY FAVORITE ALL TIME MOVIES!

:P I could watch it over and over, lol.

@laflux said:

@lykopis said:

Space Jam was awesome!

All my basketball knowledge comes that film.........

And I wonder why I suck at it.

What is WRONG with you? Must be because you're English. Has to be.

#30 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro:

No, I don't think ALL of those teams are that good. They are are all good teams in their own right but as far as being the proof that Jordan's era isn't overrated, I don't think they are up to standard. Don't think about what superstars those teams had, think about how they would have to match up with the Bulls and who was guarding who. When you say one of the greatest guard duos in NBA history, you mean Starks & Ewing, right? John Starks is mediocre. There were way better center\guard duos in this era. The only truly great guard\center combo of that era was Clyde\Hakeem and as far as I know Jordan has never had to meet them in the playoffs because the season they won the title, Jordan was playing baseball and they are in two different conferences.

No, I was referring to malone and stockton.

You said that "the best players played" and then cited players that got injured along the way. Only the in the Eastern Conference would that have not made a difference either way. The Celtics wouldn't have been able to beat Miami with or without Rondo nor would the Bulls have been able to beat them with or without D.Rose. The Lakers lost Kobe but they played horrible all season, chances are the Spurs still would have beaten them. We don't know what would have happened if Westbrook didn't get hurt but that seems to be the only uncertain outcome. Has Jordan beaten better teams than Lebron has in the playoffs? Absolutely but the Eastern Conference is garbage, and Lebron hasn't always made the finals but you have to remember the Western Conference is WAY better than the East and when you make the finals you have to play the best of the conference. Miami has had to face Dirk's 2011 Mavs who steamrolled a good Lakers team..probably better than the Lakers team that Jordan beat in the finals and they had a fairly easy road to the finals. They also had to face OKC a team with two MVP candidates, one of which was the scoring champ and the other a top 5 PG in the league.

I agree with alot of this. Although when we are comparing jordan's teams he faced vs lebron's. It makes no sense to include teams he lost against, vs ones mj won against (mavs in comparison to '91 lakers). Sure he faced mavs, but he lost against them so I don't think its relevant to this particular debate. If that's the case then celtics in the 80's should be included, which michael lost to. And they blow out any other current heat opponent in this era out of the water.

I do agree with OKC being an extremely tough opponent. Just as kobe's 2008 & 2010 celtics. Who I think were better than 2011 dallas, and 2012 okc. But that's just my opinion, and that claim is very debatable.

#31 Posted by ZeroKillXo1 (47 posts) - - Show Bio

I Still Feel Bad For Ewings Knicks,

But To Answer Your Question, No, This Generation Of Bballers Would Get Shut Out By Those Teams. Have You Even Watched These Playoffs? Durant Chokes, Carmellos Non Showing Up, Pacers Lack, Memphis Sweep, Celtics Why Try At This Point, And Miami Keeping The Series Alive By Not Scoring Offensively. Actually Most Everyone Is Scoring Low, I See Games Like 70To 80 Points. People (superstars) Shooting 3 Of 16 From The Field? Give Me A Break, Don't Get Me Started On Flopping. This Era Is Nothing Compared To The Accurate Nothing But Net, Wam Bam Dunks 90's Bbal Had.

#32 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

Space Jam was awesome!

Agreed. The best documentary of all time.

And Jordan isn't overrated. I don't want to speculate too heavily on his era, but you see Jordan play and he was just a freak. There are some guys who are just beyond in terms of athletic ability. Guys like Ali and Bradman, Jordan is one of them.

#33 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

rondo and kobe werent on elite teams so they dont matter and mj never beat the celtics or a young lakers team

#34 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: You must be joking putting Lebron on the same level as Jordan. Let me know when he comes into sniffing distance of MJ's 6 rings. You must be crazy if you think Kobe's Lakers or Duncan's Bulls would've beat Jordan's Bulls. Looks like you need to brush up on your Basketball history.

#35 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

Jordan homers are going nuts in here.

#36 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: By the way Jordan never needed a star center to win 6 rings either, Kobe can't say the same. The Laker team you are highly touting would've got smoked by the 72 and 10 Bulls. Rodman would've toyed with Shaq mentally and Pippen, Harper and Jordan would've frustrated Kobe. Not to mention the great role players the Bulls also had and a hell of a lot better "D".

#37 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub: By the way Jordan never needed a star center to win 6 rings either, Kobe can't say the same.

Um....Dude when did I ever compared Jordan to Kobe?Why are we even bringing that up?Jordan had Pippen,while he may not be as good as Shaq,he is still one of the top 30-40 players in the history of the NBA.He could do it all rebound,pass,defend,score he is one of the most versatile players in the history of the game.

The Laker team you are highly touting would've got smoked by the 72 and 10 Bulls

I doubt that,that version of the Bulls probably would have won but they were not stomping anyone.And I said Shaq and Kobe Lakers can beat some Bulls team.Areyou are seriously going to sit here and tell me 2000-01 Lakers could beat no Bulls team?Really?

Rodman would've toyed with Shaq mentally

ROFL Rodman would not have be able to hold down Shaq,I do not think there are many people in the history of the NBA that could.

Harper and Jordan would've frustrated Kobe.

At the same time Kobe would have still get his points and make MJ work and don't forget Ron Harper played with the Lakers too.

Not to mention the great role players the Bulls

The Lakers had great role players as well; Derrick Fisher,Ron Harper,Rick Fox,Robert Horry etc.

#38 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines said:

No, I was referring to malone and stockton.

Their center was Greg Ostertag. Malone is a PF.

I agree with alot of this. Although when we are comparing jordan's teams he faced vs lebron's. It makes no sense to include teams he lost against, vs ones mj won against (mavs in comparison to '91 lakers). Sure he faced mavs, but he lost against them so I don't think its relevant to this particular debate. If that's the case then celtics in the 80's should be included, which michael lost to. And they blow out any other current heat opponent in this era out of the water.

I do agree with OKC being an extremely tough opponent. Just as kobe's 2008 & 2010 celtics. Who I think were better than 2011 dallas, and 2012 okc. But that's just my opinion, and that claim is very debatable.

Lebron only has one championship, that's why I included those teams that he lost too because the teams that took him out of the finals were just better, but by the same token they were better than alot of the teams Jordan beat in the playoffs\finals. I couldn't compare them just on who they beat in the finals. In Jordan's era, the Bulls were the dynasty. In Lebron's there were the Spurs,Celtics & The Lakers.

Moderator
#39 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: You misinterpret what I said about Rodman. Obviously physically he couldn't take Shaq but he could get under his skin an mess with him mentally. Just look at what he did to Karl Malone. There was arguably no one in the game better than Rodman in that facet of the game. Hacka Shaq was a viable tool against the Lakers also due to how atrocious he was on the free throw line. Sure the Lakers could pull out some wins but I would still have the Bulls winning a 7 game series every time. Only the 6 championship ring teams though. The Bulls were still better defensively and had a better bench. Jordan was on another level, he's the type of athlete who could've willed his team to victory. But alas we all will never know and can only speculate. In my eyes there was no other team led by one star more dominant than Jordan's championship teams. There is nothing that you could say to change my mind and vice versa. So I'll just leave it at that.

#40 Edited by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub said:

@vance_astro: You must be joking putting Lebron on the same level as Jordan. Let me know when he comes into sniffing distance of MJ's 6 rings. You must be crazy if you think Kobe's Lakers or Duncan's Bulls would've beat Jordan's Bulls. Looks like you need to brush up on your Basketball history.

You're just saying a bunch of things. You're not actually back up what you're saying. Robert Horry has more than 6 rings so obviously that's not an individual stat. That's team based. You also have to remember that pretty much EVERY roster that MJ has ever been on was FAR better than Lebron's Cavs. He carried that bum ass team through the playoffs with a good record for 7 seasons. Kobe's Lakers and Duncan's Spurs would have dominated the paint and there is nothing Jordan's Bulls could have done about it. I don't have to brush up on anything.

Rodman would've toyed with Shaq mentally

And I'm the one that has to be kidding? Lebron isn't on Jordan's level but Rodman could have done anything to be effective on defense against Shaq?

@kgb725 said:

rondo and kobe werent on elite teams so they dont matter and mj never beat the celtics or a young lakers team

What?

Moderator
#41 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Never!

#42 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Again I never said Rodman could beat Shaq just that he could get under his skin. I said and I quote "Rodman woudl've toyed with Shaq mentally". Reading comprehension ftw. You still haven't proved jack about Lebron being on Jordan's level. He's lost 2 Finals, not too mention one with the so called Big 3 against the Mavs. Jordan's undefeated in the Finals. There really is no argument for you to make, you can cry all you want and say Lebron didn't have help doesn't change the fact Jordan was more clutch when it counted most.

#43 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub: lebron never got put out the first round like jordan did and took a weak cavs team to the finals and the heat lost a finals based on the whole teams pkay not just lbj i wont say lbj is better but jordan feels threatened by lebron thats why he always brings him down or says kobe is better

#44 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: Why would Jordan feel threatened by Lebron? If anything Kobe is closer in championships so I'm not buying that. Jordan was the greatest closer of all time, Lebron can't say the same. These are facts no need to argue about it. Jordan has an unblemished Finals record with 6 rings. Lebron is 1 and 3 so there really is no argument facts are facts. I actually like Lebron and hope he does well but lets be honest the league isn't as good as it was when Jordan as in it. Guys fopping all over the place, ticky tac foul calls, guys crying for foul calls. You can't even play "D" in this pu$$y league. Jordan was put through the gauntlet when he was in the league, the league is now like a bunch of whiners. If you watched the Heat Pacers series you would have seen flopping taken to a new level. These guys should be embarrassed. Lebron was one of the biggest offenders. By the way the Heat had trouble with the Pacers, they should've dominated. They are lucky the Pacers turned the ball over so much. The Heat might be all done after this year.

#45 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

The Shaq and Kobe team I am referring to, is the 2000-01 Lakers the same team that went NBA history best 15-1 in the post season,if it were not for A.I going straight beast mode in game 1 of the 2001 finals they would have swept the playoffs.

The Bulls had a tough time "dealing" with a young Shaq (minus Mamba), throw prime Shaq in there and it just gets worse. Outside of Hack-A-Shaq (and I guess Vlade flopping all over the place), I'm not sure anyone could stop Shaq in those three years, much less Longley, Wennington, Rodman, or Jason Caffey. lol

Speculation that really can't be proven I could say if Shaq and Kobe got along they would have way more championships then they have now but sadly they don't.

Perfect reply. Jordan chose to retire (father's death, gambling issues, whatever), he was able to rest for like 2 years while everyone else was playing, then come back refreshed. LA during their 3 peat lost iirc 3 finals games total. And if Malone's not injured during the finals you could argue that might have added another title.

I never said MJ was not the best,neither have I ever said Kobe or Shaq was on his level so I do not even know why this was even stated.

By MJ's and Phil Jackson's own criteria (RINGZ!), Jordan is not the GOAT. Notice how when it comes to Jordan being the GOAT, you can't just go by rings (cause Russell obliterates him), you have to include other accomplishments (lol@ ASG MVPs and stuff like that), or stats (Kareem blows everyone away). lol

#46 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro:

Their center was Greg Ostertag. Malone is a PF.

I apologize. I simply meant guard/big man combo.

Lebron only has one championship, that's why I included those teams that he lost too because the teams that took him out of the finals were just better, but by the same token they were better than alot of the teams Jordan beat in the playoffs\finals. I couldn't compare them just on who they beat in the finals. In Jordan's era, the Bulls were the dynasty. In Lebron's there were the Spurs,Celtics & The Lakers.

In jordan's era there were two of the greatest teams/ dynasties in nba history, lakers and celtics. Not to mention detroit's dynasty as well. I don't understand why you continuously choose to ignore/downplay MJs era. There's nothing wrong with liking lebron, but state the facts when comparing the two players.

#47 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, flopping, now being spearheaded by Lebron and the heat, is seriously beginning to ruin the league. The nba's poster child shouldn't be promoting such a weak tactic. Not to mention the fact that he's about 6'8" and 260lbs with strength and speed on crazy levels. Why does the man feel the need to flop all of the time? I like lbj, but the man needs to chill with that.

#48 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Again I never said Rodman could beat Shaq just that he could get under his skin. I said and I quote "Rodman woudl've toyed with Shaq mentally". Reading comprehension ftw.

First all Speaking of reading comprehension, where did I say that you said Rodman could beat Shaq? Second of all watch how you talk to me. Don't try and insult my intelligence.

You still haven't proved jack about Lebron being on Jordan's level. He's lost 2 Finals, not too mention one with the so called Big 3 against the Mavs. Jordan's undefeated in the Finals.

So there's no argument I can make because Lebron lost in the finals? What part of winning games is a team effort don't you understand? The Bulls weren't winning all those championships because of Jordan and Jordan alone, just like Lebron could never win without a decent supporting cast. Until Lebron was on the Heat he wasn't playing with players that would be future hall of famers, half those dudes on the Cavs were bench players at best. That's why he left.

There really is no argument for you to make, you can cry all you want and say Lebron didn't have help doesn't change the fact Jordan was more clutch when it counted most.

I'm not crying about how Lebron didn't have help it's a fact. The Cleveland Cavaliers went from the best team in the east WITH Lebron to one of the worst teams in the league without him. The other players that left with him are bench players on most teams. The entire time he played in Cleveland he didn't play with anyone remotely as good as Scottie Pippen accept for Shaq and he was hurt for most of the season and barely played with the Cavs. Jordan being more clutch doesn't mean Lebron isn't on his level. If you compare their career stats, Lebron right now averaged more assists, and more boards with 3 less points a game but at 1% below in shooting percentage. (Jordan 50%-Lebron 49%) In Jordan's BEST season his #'s were 31.5ppg, 6rbs, 5.5ast, 2.7 steals,and he was shooting 51%,34%,& 85% from the field, from 3-point land and from the free throw line. In Lebron's BEST season his #'s were 26.8pts, 8.2rbs, 7.3asts, 1.7 steals per game, 56% shooting, 39% three-point shooting, 75% free-throw shooting. The way I see it, so far their stats are pretty identical. When Jordan was Lebron's age now, he only had 1 championship (same as Lebron). He only had 1 League MVP title and 1 Finals MVP, Lebron had 4 league MVP trophies and 1 Finals MVP. Before you bring up Jordan's steals titles, scoring champ, defensive player of the year etc. Remember that's all based on the scope of the league at the time it doesn't mean that Lebron isn't as good at any of those things. I'm not saying Lebron is BETTER than Jordan but on the same level? I'd say they are.

Moderator
#49 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11442 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: How could you say a guy is the best ever in a sport hat has so many great players, not only that, even when the NBA did everything to help Jordan to be as big as they can make him, even if they had to destroy Rodman because he was a pain in the ass.

The only criteria that puts Jordan #1 is endorsements, media hype and popularity.

Many go to he numbers, but like i have said about LeBron Fails, the numbers just show a part of the picture, many player in the numbers look amazing, but they fail at the killer factor and never live to the full potential.

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson at their prime would had problems to beat Jordan, but would had beat him, so does Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson.

1994 and 1995: Jordanless Bulls still kicked ass, then Jordan gets back and gets his ass kicked, then Rodman gets in the Bulls and they win, not only that Jordanless Bulls had a better season that when Jordan was back.

Without Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant, Jordan wasnt the great player people belive he was, the first 3 years with the Bull he was in the loser team, then the other guys enter and the Bulls became so huge.

This said by a person who only like Pro Wrestling, this made me look at the facts around people and their actual skills and when is a company behind him and is trying to make him that good.

Jordan is the Hulk Hogan of the NBA, pretty damn good, did a lot more his hater want to say, but at the end, without the company behind him and all the people that knew how to sell him, he would had less by far less.

#50 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5132 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Sorry I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. But back to the subject, you can't deny Jordan was far more clutch at the end of games. That's been Lebron's Achilles heel all these years. Lebron was always passive when it came to taking the winning shot and the times he did he hardly made them. Jordan never had that problem, he had more of a killer instinct when it came time to close teams out. Jordan was by far a better jump shooter and defender also. Look Lebron is great so is Kobe but neither of them are in Jordan's league. Yeah it's a team game but at the end of the day you need to have multiple rings to be in the greatest of all time category. That's why Jordan is still relevant because of how dominant he was. Guy's like him, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Wayne Gretzsky and Jeter are in another category when it comes to greatness.